America - The Official Thread

[Dotini]

That's the bit I don't get, why do you think there's a likelihood of that happening? Motivated attackers are quite capable of walking into a lavatory now, surely? If those crimes are such a worry to the US then presumably you're already accompanying your sons into public lavatories... why wouldn't you be accompanying your daughters?

Personally I wouldn't let any of my kids go into a public lavatory without me there regardless, but that's far more to do with pin-heads than rapists.

In my experience, deeply conservative family men are the most insanely protective and unreasonable persons regarding their children. Facts - and probabilities - are unavailing when minds and hearts are steeled.

 

[TenEightyOne]

What happened to the rest of what I said in that post? " it's something for the media at best along with a few rabble rousers" Picking things out of context is never cool.

I left in the part where you pointed out it wasn't a problem. I didn't see the importance of why it wasn't a problem when you then switched to the "state-enforced school-system's message to children" mode.

 

[allyourjazzz]

I left in the part where you pointed out it wasn't a problem. I didn't see the importance of why it wasn't a problem when you then switched to the "state-enforced school-system's message to children" mode.

It should not be difficult to understand, the article you posted was about education and not gender toilets in general. Now if you could show me the general outrage of the American public about this issue I'd be all ears, education is different as you should know.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Now if you could show me the general outrage of the American public about this issue I'd be all ears, education is different as you should know.

'Kay.

You could then read the article, particularly this part;

But the directive, which has been sent to all public schools, was immediately rejected by senior Republican Party politicians meeting at a convention in Texas.

Texas Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick said: "This will be the beginning of the end of the public school system as we know it."

"President Obama, in the dark of the night - without consulting Congress, without consulting educators, without consulting parents - decides to issue an executive order, forcing transgender policies on schools and on parents who clearly don't want it," he told 5NBC television.

A new gender identity comes into force as soon as a parent or guardian notifies the school that their child's identity "differs from previous representations or records" and must be respected even if it makes others uncomfortable, the directive says.

I always thought bathrooms were separated by sex for practical reasons. But then that's a crazy thought I know.

Exactly, there are no practical reasons.

I wonder whether nightclub toilets will enforce 'gender neutral' facilities? Alcohol, drugs and horny people could make for some interesting scenes.

Because they're models of restraint and sobriety now, of course.

 

[allyourjazzz]

@TenEightyOne I think you just made my point for me. Let's take it in or out of the school system, it's two separate issues.

BTW there is an important aspect you might be missing, a child has to be protected from any sort of 'special' label, now you will of course say the label isn't special but most are disagreeing with that point in this juncture of our culture, keep in mind they are minors.

 

[FoolKiller]

I wonder whether nightclub toilets will enforce 'gender neutral' facilities? Alcohol, drugs and horny people could make for some interesting scenes.

I've been in gender neutral bathrooms at bars and clubs. Nothing major going on.

I've been in single sex bathrooms at nightclubs and "hey is that a lady in the stall with that guy?"

I've been in same sex bathrooms at gay clubs and I've seen porn that's more tame.

I think it would depend on the facility's policy and enforcement as to what actually goes on.

 

[ryzno]

I'll just leave this here.

 

[Pupik]

I'll just leave this...

Ban all bathrooms, and nobody will ever be choked or asphyxiated again.

Right?

 

[TenEightyOne]

I'll just leave this here.

Exactly my point, this kind of crime happens regardless. It's exceedingly rare but it happens. Why on earth was an 8 year old going unaccompanied into a restroom?

 

[ryzno]

Ban all bathrooms, and nobody will ever be choked or asphyxiated again.

Right?

No, but multiple single person restrooms would be a start. Of course someone could wait and prey in there also. But I would think it would be less likely since a father/daughter or mother/son would be able to enter without feeling uncomfortable.
I have no problem using the restroom with whoever, but I don't think my 5 year old son needs to be exposed to this restroom rule.
And don't bring up the argument of what is a 5 year old girl going to do to your son.

@TenEightyOne I agree but I don't think the government rule is in the right direction.

 

[FoolKiller]

but I don't think my 5 year old son needs to be exposed to this restroom rule.

What would he be exposed to?

 

[ryzno]

Men and women who have or want to become men. I don't want him exposed to the idea of transgender, read my posts in the ESPY thread for my views...

 

[TRGTspecialist]

I don't want him exposed to the idea of transgender

What, are you afraid he'll catch it or something?

 

[FoolKiller]

How would he know they're transgender? Are you all checking everyone's genitals? If so, they aren't the problem. And how does making a transgender woman use the men's room prevent him from exposure? Seems to me like, "Daddy, why is that man wearing a dress?" would be just as awkward as seeing a woman trying to live as a man.

Really, your desired rules would have your son in the bathroom with these people.

See transgender is not a just a bearded dude in a dress or a crop topped female biker, or even Caitlyn Jenner. It is people who are completely transitioned to a state where they don't appear to be transgender.

 

[allyourjazzz]

I've been going to the bathroom for many years and I've never seen anything like that next to me shaking off the dew. Have we really sunk so low that we need to worry about who craps were?

I know that I do not care, and no one else should either.

 

[ryzno]

How would he know they're transgender? Are you all checking everyone's genitals? If so, they aren't the problem. And how does making a transgender woman use the men's room prevent him from exposure? Seems to me like, "Daddy, why is that man wearing a dress?" would be just as awkward as seeing a woman trying to live as a man.

Really, your desired rules would have your son in the bathroom with these people.

See transgender is not a just a bearded dude in a dress or a crop topped female biker, or even Caitlyn Jenner. It is people who are completely transitioned to a state where they don't appear to be transgender.

I know all of that, you obviously don't remember or bother to read the ESPY thread, I'm not going to sit here and get bashed over MY views again.

 

[FoolKiller]

I know all of that, you obviously don't remember or bother to read the ESPY thread,

Nothing in that thread addressed bathroom issues. Nor did I ask a question that was made there, since this discussion is about bathrooms.

Yes, I know you think being transgender is wrong, and any elective surgery is mutilation and you don't want to defend that more than you have. But I'm responding to your comments on a transgender-friendly bathroom policy.

That does not answer how/why you or your son is checking to see if that guy has a dingus.

It also doesn't explain how not having a transgender friendly bathroom policy prevents your son from being exposed to it, when that would mean he could wind up using a urinal next to someone like Jamie Clayton.

I understand your preference for small single seaters, but that isn't feasible in all cases. Imagine the lines at a sporting event.

If Jamie Clayton or Lavern Cox needed to go pee at the Emmys should either of them be using the men's room?

I'm not going to sit here and get bashed over MY views again.

I'm not bashing you. I'm asking for clarification as your opinion seems to be based on a fairly simplistic set of ideas on the subject.

I honestly do not understand how a transgender-friendly bathroom policy causes any problems that don't already exist now.

But if you don't want to answer questions about your opinions I wonder why you get started.



My thought on it is this: There should be no laws. Target owns their property and the bathrooms. It's Target's policy. Same for a business that wants to enforce a policy based on birth certificates, though I have no idea how to enforce that. North Carolina overstepped, so did Charlotte, and so did the president. It isn't their property to make rules for. It's basically the same stance I have on everything. Less government involvement is better.

 

[Dotini]

Signs of changing times in US politics? I hope so.

https://theintercept.com/2016/05/18...ical-realignment-on-foreign-policy-continues/
IN THE LATEST example of how foreign policy no longer neatly aligns with party politics, the Charles Koch Institute — the think tank founded and funded by energy billionaire Charles Koch — hosted an all-day event Wednesday featuring a set of speakers you would be more likely to associate with a left-wing anti-war rally than a gathering hosted by a longtime right-wing institution.

At the event, titled “Advancing American Security: The Future of U.S. Foreign Policy,” prominent realist and liberal foreign policy scholars took turns trashing the neoconservative worldview that has dominated the foreign policy thinking of the Republican Party — which the Koch brothers have been allied with for decades.

Most of the speakers assailed the Iraq War, nation building, and regime change. During a panel event also featuring former Obama Pentagon official Kathleen Hicks, foreign policy scholar John Mearsheimer brought the crowd to applause by denouncing American military overreach.

“We need to pull back, stop fighting all these wars. Stop defending rich people who are fully capable of defending themselves, and instead spend the money at home. Period. End of story!”

 

[ryzno]

Nothing in that thread addressed bathroom issues. Nor did I ask a question that was made there, since this discussion is about bathrooms.

Yes, I know you think being transgender is wrong, and any elective surgery is mutilation and you don't want to defend that more than you have. But I'm responding to your comments on a transgender-friendly bathroom policy.

That does not answer how/why you or your son is checking to see if that guy has a dingus.

It also doesn't explain how not having a transgender friendly bathroom policy prevents your son from being exposed to it, when that would mean he could wind up using a urinal next to someone like Jamie Clayton.

I understand your preference for small single seaters, but that isn't feasible in all cases. Imagine the lines at a sporting event.

If Jamie Clayton or Lavern Cox needed to go pee at the Emmys should either of them be using the men's room?


I'm not bashing you. I'm asking for clarification as your opinion seems to be based on a fairly simplistic set of ideas on the subject.

I honestly do not understand how a transgender-friendly bathroom policy causes any problems that don't already exist now.

But if you don't want to answer questions about your opinions I wonder why you get started.



My thought on it is this: There should be no laws. Target owns their property and the bathrooms. It's Target's policy. Same for a business that wants to enforce a policy based on birth certificates, though I have no idea how to enforce that. North Carolina overstepped, so did Charlotte, and so did the president. It isn't their property to make rules for. It's basically the same stance I have on everything. Less government involvement is better.

I really don't know how to explain my views on this, but the first thing is, Obama shouldn't even be messing with our children's education funds, I pay taxes so my son and other kids can go to school, not for someone to threaten me with my own money cause I don't agree with his power trip.

But I'll tell you a story and why I don't trust the whole transgender situation. My dad use to work with a transgender lady, she went through the whole process, hormones and all. She then became a lesbian.(don't ask me how or why) But to this day she still dates women. So if thats not evidence of a confused mind I don't know what is!

What I don't want my son exposed to is a woman who had a mastectomy and still has her vagina in the same room as my son, I don't want him coming up with the idea transgender is okay. Is it a touch of homophobia or bigotry? Probably, but they are my and my families views.

On the same token if I had a daughter and she was in the restroom with Bruce Caitlyn Jenner. I would not approve, just cause she feels like a woman, shes still got a penis and can do unappropriat things if she wanted to.

Now I will kinda double down on what I have said, I still believe elective surgery is wrong, but if you have gone through the ENTIRE process, more power to you! use whatever restroom you want, but leave our kids out of this.
And on that note how many school age kids are really transgender? Just cause they feel like a girl or boy they are not and have not been through any process except maybe a psychiatrist.

And lets keep it real @FoolKiller, do you really think Obama is going to have his daughters in restrooms with former men? I truely doubt it. So he shouldn't make my kid do something he would never expose his kids to.

/rant

Last minute edit:
"That does not answer how/why you or your son is checking to see if that guy has a dingus."
Kids are curious, or little asshats. And when I was in elementary school some kids had no problem running around in the restroom barring all, I saw things I never wanted to see.

 

[Exorcet]

But I'll tell you a story and why I don't trust the whole transgender situation. My dad use to work with a transgender lady, she went through the whole process, hormones and all. She then became a lesbian.(don't ask me how or why) But to this day she still dates women. So if thats not evidence of a confused mind I don't know what is!

A single example isn't going to give you enough information to judge a whole group. Aside from that, why would being a lesbian make her confused? Your body has nothing to do with who you can date.

 

[FoolKiller]

I really don't know how to explain my views on this, but the first thing is, Obama shouldn't even be messing with our children's education funds, I pay taxes so my son and other kids can go to school, not for someone to threaten me with my own money cause I don't agree with his power trip.

I'll point out that I didn't bring up Obama's "policy." For the record, schools aren't federal jurisdiction and none of that money should be there to begin with. It allows the federal government to extort states into acting certain ways at the risk of harming children. His bathroom rule has no legal teeth.

But I'll tell you a story and why I don't trust the whole transgender situation. My dad use to work with a transgender lady, she went through the whole process, hormones and all. She then became a lesbian.(don't ask me how or why) But to this day she still dates women. So if thats not evidence of a confused mind I don't know what is!

So, someone who was born a man and had a physical attraction to women went through the transition to become a woman and was still attracted to women? How is that confused? Having your brain constantly thinking you're a different gender does not necessarily mean you change who you are attracted to.

Someone who is impotent, infertile, suffers ED, or just loses all libido for physical or mental reasons can still be attracted to the people they were before. That doesn't make them confused.

What I don't want my son exposed to is a woman who had a mastectomy and still has her vagina in the same room as my son,

What's wrong with breast cancer patients?

I don't want him coming up with the idea transgender is okay. Is it a touch of homophobia or bigotry? Probably, but they are my and my families views.

I still don't see how a bathroom policy changes this exposure? A transgender person has to use a bathroom. One way or another your son will be in a restroom as one. Take your pick: Caitlyn Jenner or Chaz Bono. One of them will be in a men's room, which depends on the bathroom policy.

On the same token if I had a daughter and she was in the restroom with Bruce Caitlyn Jenner. I would not approve, just cause she feels like a woman, shes still got a penis and can do unappropriat things if she wanted to.

I'm going to ignore the minor accusation of the potential for sexual assault simply because she's transgender (or male). Is it okay for her to be in a restroom with Chaz Bono?

Now I will kinda double down on what I have said, I still believe elective surgery is wrong, but if you have gone through the ENTIRE process, more power to you! use whatever restroom you want, but leave our kids out of this.

This is contradictory. If just being in their presence is causing a problem then the only way to leave kids completely out of it is to ban transgender people or kids from public restrooms, if not public in general.

Back to my original point: How do any of the ideas you propose prevent your kids from possibly being exposed? Transgender swings both ways. Kids are everywhere in public. What kind of bubble prevents exposure? How is anything you suggest going to succeed in this goal?

And on that note how many school age kids are really transgender? Just cause they feel like a girl or boy they are not and have not been through any process except maybe a psychiatrist.

I would personally not suggest any permanent changes (surgery, possibly hormones) until emotional sexual maturity has been reached. In many cases this can be college or later. But even if they believe they are transgender and that is making them depressed and at risk of all that comes with depression I'm not about to force anything on them that might make it worse. I'd hate to feel as if I might have played a role in a suicide.

Kids are curious, or little asshats. And when I was in elementary school some kids had no problem running around in the restroom barring all, I saw things I never wanted to see.

I'm not sure transgender people are the primary problem in this situation.

 

[Parker]

I went into the women's bathroom yesterday. I walked in and a woman shrieked and said "aww, he is so cute!"

The men's bathroom had poo all over the only open stall so I took my son to hid business in the women's bathroom before he had an accident in his pants. Apparently that woman thought his "pee-pee dance" was adorable.

 

[CodeRedR51]

“We need to pull back, stop fighting all these wars. Stop defending rich people who are fully capable of defending themselves, and instead spend the money at home. Period. End of story!”

Gotta say I agree with this.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Gotta say I agree with this.

So knowing only what we knew in 1939 to 1941 would you have entered the USA into WW2 then? Why or why not? Would you have invaded Afghanistan to root out the Taliban and find Osama?

 

[ryzno]

I'll point out that I didn't bring up Obama's "policy." For the record, schools aren't federal jurisdiction and none of that money should be there to begin with. It allows the federal government to extort states into acting certain ways at the risk of harming children. His bathroom rule has no legal teeth.

First thing we agree on. But this is what started the whole debate so it's relevant...

So, someone who was born a man and had a physical attraction to women went through the transition to become a woman and was still attracted to women? How is that confused? Having your brain constantly thinking you're a different gender does not necessarily mean you change who you are attracted to.

Ok. Well I see it, how I see it...

Someone who is impotent, infertile, suffers ED, or just loses all libido for physical or mental reasons can still be attracted to the people they were before. That doesn't make them confused.

Completely different subject...

What's wrong with breast cancer patients?

See this is why I don't want to respond. You know what I mean

I still don't see how a bathroom policy changes this exposure? A transgender person has to use a bathroom. One way or another your son will be in a restroom as one. Take your pick: Caitlyn Jenner or Chaz Bono. One of them will be in a men's room, which depends on the bathroom policy.

From what I've heard Chaz has finished his transition.

I'm going to ignore the minor accusation of the potential for sexual assault simply because she's transgender (or male). Is it okay for her to be in a restroom with Chaz Bono?

Wasn't my first post that started this whole convo about this? And no.

Back to my original point: How do any of the ideas you propose prevent your kids from possibly being exposed? Transgender swings both ways. Kids are everywhere in public. What kind of bubble prevents exposure? How is anything you suggest going to succeed in this goal?

Well what I have been doing so far seems to be working. The early learning Academy he goes to has one stall restroom per classroom, one at a time. All adults use separate restrooms. I've not seen a single kid down there that shows signs of being gay or transgender. And we really don't go out in public and when we do I usually just put a diaper on him till we get back. And he can hold it pretty well. So in my mind, my "crazy" ideas work. I'm not teaching him to fear them, I just don't want him exposed to it, till he grows up more. I know in all reality I will have to talk to him about this at some point.

I would personally not suggest any permanent changes (surgery, possibly hormones) until emotional sexual maturity has been reached. In many cases this can be college or later. But even if they believe they are transgender and that is making them depressed and at risk of all that comes with depression I'm not about to force anything on them that might make it worse. I'd hate to feel as if I might have played a role in a suicide.

If they are depressed they should see a psychiatrist, as I said. I don't know why this thing keeps adding the end quote at the end after I delete it. And I don't know what else to tell you. You think I'm wrong or you don't.

 

[Sanji Himura]

I'll point out that I didn't bring up Obama's "policy." For the record, schools aren't federal jurisdiction and none of that money should be there to begin with. It allows the federal government to extort states into acting certain ways at the risk of harming children. His bathroom rule has no legal teeth.

He should have no authority to determine how to spend federal dollars, that responsibility falls on the House, but on the other hand, we seem to have given him the authority - by means of enforcing existing law - to regulate where the federal dollars goes.

Yes, his bathroom rule should have no legal teeth because it wasn't written into Title IX with the Civil Rights Act of 1965, but given his habit to write new legal definitions into the legal dictionary, we shouldn't be surprised.

 

[allyourjazzz]

but on the other hand, we seem to have given him the authority - by means of enforcing existing law - to regulate where the federal dollars goes.

It's a runaway train and we're never looking back, boy how I wish that were not true. The DOL is out of control enough without him fueling the fire.

It seems harmless enough on the surface for some but that is because they don't think through the ramification his actions will have for years to come

 

[prisonermonkeys]

But to this day she still dates women. So if thats not evidence of a confused mind I don't know what is!

Although being transgender is frequently associated with the gay and lesbian community, it isn't necessarily an issue of sexuality. Many people who are transgender feel as if they are trapped in the wrong body - in simple terms, they have a female mind in a male body or vice versa. Sexual orientation has very little to do with it.

 

[Sanji Himura]

Although being transgender is frequently associated with the gay and lesbian community, it isn't necessarily an issue of sexuality. Many people who are transgender feel as if they are trapped in the wrong body - in simple terms, they have a female mind in a male body or vice versa. Sexual orientation has very little to do with it.

It has more to do with perception than it has with anything else. Most everyone else would perceive a transgender person as someone who does have an issue with their sexuality, hence the label.

 

[Dennisch]

Although being transgender is frequently associated with the gay and lesbian community, it isn't necessarily an issue of sexuality. Many people who are transgender feel as if they are trapped in the wrong body - in simple terms, they have a female mind in a male body or vice versa. Sexual orientation has very little to do with it.

This is the same ******** discussion as the nonsense following gay marriage. 2 same sex adults getting married leads to people wanting to marry animals and other kinky stuff.

Nonsense.