America - The Official Thread

[05XR8]

That's just an opinion piece from a less than reputable news outlet that was talking about the Facebook post that BLM Chicago posted.

And as I mentioned in my previous post, their condemnation of the act was more of a "the man's out to get us" then actually trying to speak out again the actions. They complain their won't be any rehabilitation to these teens and seem to suggest that by punishing these teens it's going to perpetuate violence, which I don't really see how, unless of course they plan on calling for one of their violent and destructive "protests".



And here they just generalized everyone speaking out against this act:


I don't think the story was that sensationalized, especially if you watch an unedited version of the torture video. And since I do care about the victim, I want to see these teens experience the harshest punishment allowed. Although according to the BLM post, that's "just what the system does".



It disgusts me that anyone can feel sorry for the accused, which the BLM post seems to suggest, when there's such glaring evidence against them that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt they are guilty.

As for the football player, I don't know enough about the story, but if there was solid evidence he should be punished for it in the same way these teens are being punished.

It is what the system does. It's not fair how they dish out punishment. That's the problem. Anyone that hurts their fellow man, gets no sympathy from me.

Black Lives Matter don't speak for me. No matter what good they do. There will always be knuckleheads amongst any movement.

 

[Joey D]

It is what the system does. It's not fair how they dish out punishment. That's the problem. Anyone that hurts their fellow man, gets no sympathy from me.

Black Lives Matter don't speak for me. No matter what good they do. There will always be knuckleheads amongst any movement.

What does the system do? If you commit a crime you're punished. The Eighth Amendment even protects against cruel and unusual punishment. There's nothing stating that the government should be responsible for "rehabilitating" you if you screw up since lets be honest, you control yourself and when you choose to break the law then you must accept the consequences if you're caught as long as they aren't in violation of the Eighth Amendment.

And I didn't say BLM speaks for you, so I'm not sure where you got that idea, I was quoting the Facebook post that you linked in your post.

 

[05XR8]

What does the system do? If you commit a crime you're punished. The Eighth Amendment even protects against cruel and unusual punishment. There's nothing stating that the government should be responsible for "rehabilitating" you if you screw up since lets be honest, you control yourself and when you choose to break the law then you must accept the consequences if you're caught as long as they aren't in violation of the Eighth Amendment.

And I didn't say BLM speaks for you, so I'm not sure where you got that idea, I was quoting the Facebook post that you linked in your post.

The system is not fair. You must know this. There are still cases being overturned because of wrongful(on purpose with no evidence mind you) prosecution. Not just one or two cases that slipped through the cracks. Blatant cases throughout past and present history.
I have no doubt this 4 will get whatever maximum penalty. It's a given.

I didn't say you. There was a comment about Black Lives Matter should be left in 2016.

 

[Northstar]

I have no doubt this 4 will get whatever maximum penalty. It's a given.

It probably won't even get to trial unless the prosecutor wants to make a statement. Chances are all 4 will strike a deal and plead guilty to lesser charges as the evidence is 100% in the prosecutor's favor.

There was a comment about Black Lives Matter should be left in 2016.

It should as the sooner it dies the sooner a new movement can sprout up and hopefully do a much better job addressing the issues.

 

[McLaren]

Aaaaaaaaand that @deray tweet was fake.

You do know there's websites out there that can fake tweets for someone, right?

1 fake tweet doesn't excuse the rest posted. Your link also claims someone faked a tweet for Shaun King who still has a history of spreading white guilt, hence why no one questioned it.

 

[TRGTspecialist]

Given that @DK has helpfully pointed out that tweets can be easily faked, I see no reason to automatically believe that indirect images/quotes of any tweets, posted here by any member, are real.

But that aside, I still cannot fathom the significance I'm supposed to be drawing from a handful of tweets by people I have never heard of, who's identities I cannot verify.

This shouldn't even be a partisan point. It's exactly the point I made about 'the other side of the coin', the BLMkidnapping tweets:

Of course in my view it's poor form to attribute significance solely to a minority (I think) of awful tweets by people I've never heard of - why should I care who these idiots are and why they've said idiot things - right?

Heck, here's even a prominent member not in the same corner of the political spectrum as me who in another discussion expressed a similar sentiment:

Not sure what your point is with the links. I'm quite certain there are billions of tweets and facebook posts and you can find just about anything you like in them.

It's also isolated and anecdotal and the words of an individual I'll never know or come in contact with so, like just about everything else on social media, it's pretty meaningless to me.

(Sorry if that's a bit random JP, those posts just stuck in my memory for some reason)

 

[DK]

1 fake tweet doesn't excuse the rest posted. Your link also claims someone faked a tweet for Shaun King who still has a history of spreading white guilt, hence why no one questioned it.

What, the tweets from the person who has 522 followers?

 

[Parker]

What, the tweets from the person who has 522 followers?

How does the amount of followers someone has matter?

 

[DK]

How does the amount of followers someone has matter?

If they were being presented as a leading figure in a movement that someone is trying to link to the torture of this man, it does. Of course it doesn't diminish the scumminess of what they've tweeted.

As an aside, IMHO, I feel BLM is suffering from the same credibility issues as the #Occupy movement earlier this decade, that its de-centralised and Internet-based nature makes it easy for the extremists to get the whole movement tarred thanks to the brainfarts of the extremists.

 

[xyloscissor]

If you are referring to the occupy wall street deal, well, those people had no clear path at all, it was simply hate the rich which makes zero sense.

 

[Parker]

If they were being presented as a leading figure in a movement that someone is trying to link to the torture of this man, it does. Of course it doesn't diminish the scumminess of what they've tweeted.

As an aside, IMHO, I feel BLM is suffering from the same credibility issues as the #Occupy movement earlier this decade, that its de-centralised and Internet-based nature makes it easy for the extremists to get the whole movement tarred thanks to the brainfarts of the extremists.

I feel like the "movement" has no credibility because they haven't shown that "black lives matter." They go and riot after just about every high profile police shooting where a black man is killed even before all the evidence is out, or even when the suspect is shot after shooting at the police first.

If black lives really mattered to those in the movement then they would be trying to fix the black community. Trying to change the culture of not "snitching." Trying to change the fact that so many black children don't know who their fathers are, trying to change all the violence in a young black child's life. Rioting after a police shooting does nothing, especially when the Officers are found to be within their rights to shoot, except make the movement look idiotic. Look at how many shootings and murders there were in Chicago in 2016 alone. Now look at how many black men there were. Do you remember how many riots or marches there were after those men were killed? So if black lives really matter, why isn't that movement doing anything meaningful to change that?

 

[DK]

If black lives really mattered to those in the movement then they would be trying to fix the black community. Trying to change the culture of not "snitching." Trying to change the fact that so many black children don't know who their fathers are, trying to change all the violence in a young black child's life. Rioting after a police shooting does nothing, especially when the Officers are found to be within their rights to shoot, except make the movement look idiotic. Look at how many shootings and murders there were in Chicago in 2016 alone. Now look at how many black men there were. Do you remember how many riots or marches there were after those men were killed? So if black lives really matter, why isn't that movement doing anything meaningful to change that?

Yeah, I see your point. Who knows, maybe there's a lot of hard-working community activists in impoverished neighbourhoods whose good work is being drowned out because of the latest BLM outrage. :/

 

[xyloscissor]

Yeah, I see your point. Who knows, maybe there's a lot of hard-working community activists in impoverished neighbourhoods whose good work is being drowned out because of the latest BLM outrage. :/

I can remember a time when neighbourhoods where exactly that, we all looked out for, raised, praised, did all we could, hell we even celebrated times, we also mourned times. We never needed or wanted over zealous types. I know times change and such but man how I do miss my youth.

 

[McLaren]

What, the tweets from the person who has 522 followers?

So why does it matter to BLM Chicago?

They quoted people of the opposite spectrum with the same followers.

Given that @DK has helpfully pointed out that tweets can be easily faked, I see no reason to automatically believe that indirect images/quotes of any tweets, posted here by any member, are real.

But that aside, I still cannot fathom the significance I'm supposed to be drawing from a handful of tweets by people I have never heard of, who's identities I cannot verify.

Then the point flew over your head.

BLM Chicago can post tweets from random ass individuals with no significance as some sort of proof for their concern over the way people want to justify attacking blacks, but completely ignore that the an equal amount of insignificant people have no issue with the kidnapping.

You want to believe the tweets are fake, then I will believe BLM's pictures are fake and thus, their FB post that you linked as evidence, holds even less meaning.

If one side doesn't matter, neither does the other.

 

[Azuremen]

What does the system do? If you commit a crime you're punished. The Eighth Amendment even protects against cruel and unusual punishment. There's nothing stating that the government should be responsible for "rehabilitating" you if you screw up since lets be honest, you control yourself and when you choose to break the law then you must accept the consequences if you're caught as long as they aren't in violation of the Eighth Amendment.

The issue is that these consequences vary depending on your social-economic status. Being able to afford a private attorney makes a huge difference in the outcome of a criminal charge, to the extent that you can go from taking full charges to virtually nothing without even going to trial. On top of that, those that are "disenfranchised" lack the financial resources to even post bail at times, usually resulting work loss that in turn makes it easier to prosecute then, which then piles fines and restrictions on them.

The judicial system is heavily in favor of those with money and social standing. And can absolutely hamstring those that aren't well off if they've made one mistake.

 

[TRGTspecialist]

Then the point flew over your head.

BLM Chicago can post tweets from random ass individuals with no significance as some sort of proof for their concern over the way people want to justify attacking blacks, but completely ignore that the an equal amount of insignificant people have no issue with the kidnapping.

Oh right, you weren't using them as an argument, it was a tit-for-tat post. Ok, I get it now. So we agree on this then - I think, I now don't understand why you highlighted this earlier to be honest

Meanwhile, half the racist idiots in Twittersphere that support BLM justify it because "whitey used to do it" & the ever popular "racism against whites isn't a thing".

You want to believe the tweets are fake

I said no such thing.

and thus, their FB post that you linked as evidence, holds even less meaning.

The reason I linked that had nothing to do with its meaning.

Just to be extra clear, in case you're getting this from my posts somehow, I'm not on BLM Chicago's side.

 

[McLaren]

I said no such thing.

I see no reason to automatically believe that indirect images/quotes of any tweets, posted here by any member, are real.

Oh, you most certainly implied it because one of them was fake.

If you don't want to believe the tweets I posted are real, I will return the same sentiment towards BLM Chicago's pictures.

The reason I linked that had nothing to do with its meaning.

You linked them as proof they weren't silent on the matter. If my evidence of the opposite spectrum is going to be dismissed as fake tweets, I will treat the tweets quoted by BLM Chicago as the same. Which would in turn, make their awkward stance on the kidnapping even more questionable.

 

[TRGTspecialist]

Oh, you most certainly implied it because one of them was fake.

Then your implication is incorrect.

I won't automatically believe indirect images/quotes of tweets are real

I believe the tweets are fake

They do not mean the same thing. Expecting sufficient proof before believing a claim about something is true, does not mean I would make a claim (without evidence) that it is false. DK's information I think allows the former but not the latter.

You linked them as proof they weren't silent on the matter.

Correct, and the existence of it was all I set out to establish. You're then free to argue it's content was weak, wrong, contained fake stuff, awkward, whatever, but it's not connected to my own limited point.

 

[McLaren]

They do not mean the same thing. Expecting sufficient proof before believing a claim about something is true, does not mean I would make a claim (without evidence) that it is false. DK's information I think allows the former but not the latter.

The tweets were all copied before taken down; some might still be up. Regardless, I will link Phil's video which was made in response to 1 of these tweets. Read below and you'll see more evidence of such tweets in reply to Phil's video.

@PhillyD isn't it fantastic finding comfort in your own privilege? Amazing.

@clsmama @PhillyD LOL my reaction too when ppl only talk about issues when they affect white america

@PhillyD alright cool 1) I'm black 2) their hate comes from years of being oppressed by white people. Is it misplaced? Hell yes, this is +
@PhillyD ****ng terrible and those people deserve the worst that they can get for this. But their anger still comes from a **** history +
@PhillyD where white people were the oppressors. If white people did the things in the example you gave, there would be no inkling of +
@PhillyD motivation except for pure racism. Black people have a basis to their hate. It doesn't make this right, but it is the truth

@PhillyD there is no racism against white people. Racism is a system based on oppression, and white people are not oppressed. However +
@PhillyD people can be bigoted and prejudiced towards white people and that can lead to terrible actions that have racial motives but +
@PhillyD because white people arent oppressed, it's not racist. That doesn't make it any less horrible, and it doesn't diminish what +
@PhillyD happened in any way, but it is not racism. I hope you take something from these tweets and I hope that I helped you understand +
@PhillyD why people say you can't be racist against white people.

@PhillyD I would recommend looking up the word racism. This is a case of /discrimination/ against a white person. Racism is systematic.

@TeresaMG3691 @PhillyD So it wasn't racist when in the video they said "**** white people"?
@jacobrclevenger @PhillyD Nope. Just like I wouldn't consider someone screaming "**** Latinos" in my face to be racist. It's discriminatory.

Sufficient enough?

Some of this stuff is even worse than what BLM Chicago quoted because these people actually try to explain (horrrrrrribly) why they're correct. 1 of these morons actually claims the definition of racism can not be applied as an argument because "words change over time" or the words in the definition have "different meanings".

All this reverting back to my original point about what they said.

But you all don't care. You want to sensationalize this and use it as a justification to generalize and criticize

You can not sit there and act like only white people are trying to generalize & criticize by posting selective tweets when there's an equal amount of dumb people (like above) doing the exact same thing against white people.

 

[TRGTspecialist]

Sufficient enough?

Sure. 👍

You can not sit there and act like only white people are trying to generalize & criticize by posting selective tweets when there's an equal amount of dumb people (like above) doing the exact same thing against white people.

Agreed (and I'd go further to say a meaningful argument can't be made solely with a tweet slection by either side regardless of whether there's any crap to find or not on the opposing extreme).

 

[ryzno]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/01/1...eath-for-2015-charleston-church-massacre.html

Dylann Roof sentenced to death for 2015 Charleston church massacre.

 

[Lizard]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/01/1...eath-for-2015-charleston-church-massacre.html

Dylann Roof sentenced to death for 2015 Charleston church massacre.

Well considering his attitude in court and beforehand it is hardly a surprise.

 

[Northstar]

The part that really sucks is he's decided to lawyer up so he'll be around for some time. Unless he's in general population that is, than I'd imagine he would be about as popular as a pedophile.

 

[Swagger897]

He still has another trial at state level i believe.

He wont have it sentenced to him probably till he's 30-40.

 

[xyloscissor]

The problem with the death penalty in the U.S. is just how long and costly the process is, oddly many people against the punishment seem to relish in the time it takes, not to be humane, to torture. Of course there are the humane ones also.

Even though I am very much pro quick death when warranted I have to say someone like Werner Herzog gives me much food for thought.

 

[Joey D]

Good, the guy deserved it.

And I agree, the death penalty should be much quicker, especially in cases where the person is guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt. When the evidence is iffy though, I think drawing it out is a good thing. A death sentence should only be reserved for those who truly did something to warrant it.

 

[xyloscissor]

Good, the guy deserved it.

And I agree, the death penalty should be much quicker, especially in cases where the person is guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt. When the evidence is iffy though, I think drawing it out is a good thing. A death sentence should only be reserved for those who truly did something to warrant it.

Not in direct relation but I'll continue my thoughts about our justice system and it might be even more controversial though I don't mean it that way.

The process we subject felons to is nothing more than a setup for failure, we let say a rapist for example out of jail, we label him, we force him to label himself, we make it all but impossible for the man to find residence or a job, no bank account etc. nothing but fingers pointing in all directions and then we say "see? Told you he was a criminal" We are not giving a choice or chance so I'll sincerely ask, why not just kill those ones also?

 

[polysmut]

If there's one case of a person being killed by the state who is then proven not to have been guilty, is that enough to convince us that there's always a possibility of it happening again? & therefore sway our judgement of the death penalty away from saying that it should be in place?

Should the state even have a say in who gets to live & who must be killed?

What if the perp' is guilty but was compelled by mental illness? & what if that illness is diagnosed after the guilty but ill person has already been killed?

 

[Joey D]

If there's one case of a person being killed by the state who is then proven not to have been guilty, is that enough to convince us that there's always a possibility of it happening again? & therefore sway our judgement of the death penalty away from saying that it should be in place?

Should the state even have a say in who gets to live & who must be killed?

What if the perp' is guilty but was compelled by mental illness? & what if that illness is diagnosed after the guilty but ill person has already been killed?

DNA evidence, CCTV, and GPS enabled devices are making it easier to show guilt, it's not like it was 20 years ago when the technology was significantly less advanced than it is today and there was more of a reliance on witness testimony.

If there are shades of doubt though, then the death penalty shouldn't really be considered. It should be considered for people who were blatantly caught or when the evidence removes any doubt.

Also, mental illness in the US at least is a common defense used during cases. I'd be leery of solely using that as a bases for any conviction or punishment. If they are deemed mentally ill though by medical professionals then I think it's probably best to commit them to a life in a high security mental health facility.

 

[ryzno]

Why does it matter if they are mentally ill? They did it...