America - The Official Thread

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MrktMkr1986
but that doesn't mean that we didn't have a hand in "stoking the flames".
By doing what?

I am going down this road until I get an actual, honest, and factual answer that doesn't boil down to we are infidels and we should die.



You can find enough people in the Middle East, and of teh same nationality, that say Americans have done nothing wrong to balance out those who say that we are infidels who have oppressed them (by what?) and we should all die. This tells me that it is actually more of a point of view issue, possibly biased by religious fanaticism, that see our way of life as threatening to them.
 
Zardoz
So easy for you to say, huh, tough guy? Basra is five times bigger than Falluja. Now add maniacal Shiite religious ultra-zealotry. Then add a pipeline of support funneled in from Iran.

As seen in Fallujah, waiting will only make the problem worse. Take them out now and sever the terrorist ties with Iran.
 
Viper Zero
[/size][/font] 1. to end the regime of Saddam Hussein. Completed
2. to identify, isolate and eliminate Iraq's weapons of mass destruction. Completed
3. to search for, to capture and to drive out terrorists from that country. in process
4. to collect such intelligence as we can related to terrorist networks. in process
5. to collect such intelligence as we can related to the global network of illicit weapons of mass destruction Completed
6. to end sanctions and to immediately deliver humanitarian support to the displaced and to many needy Iraqi citizens. Completed
7. to secure Iraq's oil fields and resources, which belong to the Iraqi people. Completed
8. to help the Iraqi people create conditions for a transition to a representative self-government. Completed


Our Secretary of Defense needs to add an item to this list. Since there is zero chance of him having the guts to do it, we'll need to do it for him (along with a suitable status note, as above) :

9. to eliminate the need to send American military personnel out on suicidally-dangerous missions to once again attempt to subdue cities that were supposedly "pacified" long ago. Worsening

Ten more Marines killed in Fallujah

You bet our President is talking about "exit strategies". He and his handlers are very much aware that the American people have had about all of this they're going to stand for.
 
Instead of mourning the ten fallen Marines, you rather use their deaths for an advantage in an argument?

I do not have to explain how sick that makes me feel.

I of many Americans have not "given up" on Iraq, despite what the Liberal Media wants you to think. We know the consequences of being there and we know the consequences of not being there.
 
Viper Zero
Instead of mourning the ten fallen Marines, you rather use their deaths for an advantage in an argument?

I do not have to explain how sick that makes me feel.

I of many Americans have not "given up" on Iraq, despite what the Liberal Media wants you to think. We know the consequences of being there and we know the consequences of not being there.

Turning a blind eye to our fallen Americans, 0?

9/11 gave us justification to weed out terrorism, not declare war on single country.

Foreign terrorists keep pouring into Iraq so I guess we should declare war on their home country such as Belgium .
 
s0nny80y
Turning a blind eye to our fallen Americans, 0?

9/11 gave us justification to weed out terrorism, not declare war on single country.

Agreed, we got the justification to declare war on Iraq elsewhere.
 
Zardoz
Keep it in perspective. The crowds are actually pretty small at the demonstrations, even though protesters have come from all over the world.

The pic at the bottom is from a little demonstration in Brasilia. The report said only about 600 students were there. Big deal. I just stuck the photo into the post because its so outrageously dumb...


that´s why looks like you don´t know where Brasilia is. in post 701 you say: "welcome to Argentina" and then you never explain the difference between those two protests... the two protests had different purposes, so you can´t compare them without knowing what it was. one was against the war, the other against economics. its really different if we get into that.

calling it a "small" or only "600 students", is pretty pointless, since the UJS union does not get a lot of crowd due to their own ideological problems.

i know you live in california, at least is what it says in the avatar, so i don´t know if you ever live in south america to know our reality. here not even our most conservative politics support Mr Bush and his wars.
 
fasj6418
i don´t know if you ever live in south america to know our reality. here not even our most conservative politics support Mr Bush and his wars.

Seconded 👍 Left wing and right wing in most South American countries are against the war in Iraq as, dare I say, several other politicians from different countrieas around the world and the overall population of their respective countries. Of course, since that doesn't affect the US, Americans couldn't care less, as is usually the case.
 
Diego440
Seconded 👍 Left wing and right wing in most South American countries are against the war in Iraq...

"Right-wing" in those countries would be comparable to Ted Kennedy.

Of course, since that doesn't affect the US, Americans couldn't care less, as is usually the case.

Nor should it. There is no global test.
 
s0nny80y
Turning a blind eye to our fallen Americans, 0?

9/11 gave us justification to weed out terrorism, not declare war on single country.

Foreign terrorists keep pouring into Iraq so I guess we should declare war on their home country such as Belgium .


the rest of the world likes it so much Bush and his crew, that there´s even a rumor about the 9/11 as something produced by the own US government... a lunatic wrote a book about this, but he was not the only one to buy that idea... they say that bush had to do it because of economical struggles, so he could enter a war to make more money.

well personally i won´t believe this because it looks to insane to be true, but its just another piece of information to show how the image of the USA is bad in some countries.

take Venezuela for a quick example. why are they in the news? because they try to sell their president as a dictator, and someone who could give support to terrorists. such a bull**** . in Venezuela their tax system was so outrageous that those who make huge money didn´t need to pay taxes. so when he (Chavez) change that, big companies started a whole propaganda against Hugo Chavez to tell the world how bad he is. what a bunch of lie. but why pick on Venezuela? why are they in the blacklist of Mr Bush? of course, there´s a lot of OIL there, so that changes everything. that´s why they became important, and that´s why they tried to take down their government.

but people stood up and demanded their president back... i don´t know how this story was cover in the US, but would be funny to hear what you guys can say about this particular country...

about the wars...

well, they picked iraq. first was afghanistan.
its so easy to pick on the weak guy... to beat up someone you know can´t fight with you... first, Pervez Musharraf and his crew gave, and still give shelter to terrorists, so why not send troops to Pakistan?

no, they went the other way. they became friends with Islamabad :dopey: and decided to pick on afgahnistan and the taleban. a bunch of lunatics, former friends of the USA during the cold war :dopey: (how cool is that?). they didn´t went after Pakistan because its too dangerous, would be a real war, not just a cosmetic thing like it was... they say bin laden was there. could be, can they prove that?

no, of course not. after this mess, they put a friend of cheaney and halliburton in charge of the country and now they (US and Pakistan) can make full profit of the biggest source for natural gas in the world. yes, afghanistan has that. if not, why would they go there?

then, there´s old friend Saddam.
everything bush says Saddam could do, can be said about Iran, so, why not go after Iran? too complicated, they could actually fight and make things harder. Iran openly says that they hate the US, they have weapons of mass-destruction, just like North Korea. and they don´t care, because they know, that for now, US is not gonna pick on then to fight. just doesn´t make sense if you consider this: $$$

in the end is all about the money. if the guy (can´t remember the name of the user) says the propaganda is working and you don´t understand, is because you don´t stop to think that part of the propaganda is to believe that US is entering a war to bring peace to the world. democracy, freedom, all that pretty stuff. why not bring those things to other countries in need of that, like Bolivia, Peru, or... the whole Africa?

our current wars can all be explained if you look at the financial aspects involved. last time the US got into a war against a representative, big force was WW2. (and, there´s was $$$ in that too, if we discuss this war) .

after that just some battles in which USA and USSR refuse to make it personal, because would cause the end of the world if they decided to actually fight, and the rest was just financial stuff. Panama, gulf war part one and two, the intervencions in Colombia, all of that with $$$ in mind.

its a lot of bull**** if you look history. after 1950, they "sponsor" (better than support i think) every possible military government in south america, to help them "fight Communism". we hate USA foreign politic ever since... what they actually did was create a bond to trade more with those countries... was all about domination and money really. Brazil for instance, made tanks for Iraq, in mid 80´s, so Saddam could fight Iran. Since USA was helping Saddam back them, was fair to give USA partners (in this case brazilian military government) a share of the money in that war.

í´m still waiting to see a new war that its not about $$$. "war against terror". that´s propaganda. that´s what they sell. of course they don´t want terrorism. but guns will not make terrorists quit. guns and bombs will only make more $$$, and of course devastation and more anger towards america, which generates more terrorism, and on and on... until USA citizens realise what their government is doing to them and their future, this trend will go on...
 
You guys wonder why you keep losing.

05.12.01.WillDestroyYa-X.gif
 
Viper Zero
Arguments, discussions, wars, etc.


if the USA depended only on people like you, would not be a great nation. the constant attack mode and arrogant comments would kill you. i´m glad your not a politician :) its better for the rest of the world, and also, your own people...

seriously, what´s your point with the chavez cartoon?
explain better.

you should go to Iraq fight for your ideology, since you like bush so much. i´m sure you would like to do that 👍

you represent perfectly why the rest of the world hates USA. too bad for the millions of good USA people...
 
The "truth" of it all can be found somewhere out there in that vast expanse of opinion that separates VZ and fasj6418.

Exactly where, however, I wouldn't hazard a guess...
 
Yeah, and off the cliff you go.

All of the answers to your questions are in this very thread. Shouldn't you know more about the Chavez cartoon more than me? Chavez is paranoid. He believes the US is behind boycotts of his country and is planning to invade. Sounds familiar to radical Islamic terrorists who believe Jews are the root cause of evil.
 
Viper Zero
Yeah, and off the cliff you go.

All of the answers to your questions are in this very thread. Shouldn't you know more about the Chavez cartoon more than me? Chavez is paranoid. He believes the US is behind boycotts of his country and is planning to invade. Sounds familiar to radical Islamic terrorists who believe Jews are the root cause of evil.

Nope, Chavez is not a paranoid. and if OIL is the question, Bush would not hesitate on making a military intervention. i believe now is just your personal opinion, not what the media says Chavez did or said.

Have you been to Venezuela? or do you have a friend who was there to tell you what´s going on in that country? if you personally know the reality of Venezuela, then i honestly say, sorry. if not... then i guess you buying those concepts from the media... not cool i suppose...
 
Seriously, both of you Viper Zero and fasj6418 and whoever thinks they know about Venezuela, don't have even the slightest 🤬 clue as to what goes on in there so get back on the topic of the US/Iraq war, or whatever it is you were talking about.

Chavez was in charge of two military coups against the government in 1992. He has risen to power under the cover of democracy but always imitating the Cuban system, which is highly totalitarian and dictatorial (sp?). The fact that he is against the US is only because Castro is against the US. Prior to Chavez, Venezuela had very good relations with the US. Although it may seem that Venezuela is a democracy, it's closer to a full dictatorship, since the president (not the government body) handles all legislative, judicial and executive powers. The opposition has no fair chance, and whoever is against him is either persecuted, murdered, threatened or whatever.
 
So, the AP doesn't have a clue either? That's where I got my facts and they ran the news story.

I will be the first to admit I know nothing of Venezuela nor did I ever claimed that I did. I never been there, never will.
 
The AP is more creditable than Micheal Moore or Al Jazeera...

Why?

Chavez is paranoid. He believes the US is behind boycotts of his country and is planning to invade. Sounds familiar to radical Islamic terrorists who believe Jews are the root cause of evil.

Allende and Mossadegh were paranoid too... look at what happened to them.

Chavez has every right to be paranoid.


You guys wonder why you keep losing. [Arguments, discussions, wars, etc.]

You guys?

Nor should it.

...because we live in Rome...

despite what the Liberal Media wants you to think.

The media is not liberal... It's conservative.

That, in fact, is the only way conservatism can actually survive -- by pretending to be something that it is not.
 
Do I really have to explain why? I assume you would be intelligent enough to understand it by yourself.

The media is... conservative? Nice one, this should be in the comedy forum! I think the media should be fair and balanced, not taking either side, but reporting the truth.
 
FatAssBR
Was it there you got tortured, Diego?

Yes it was... but it was just because I was part of the opposition, and not an active part of it at that. I mean, I wasn't a political figure or anything of the sort, I was just exercising my constitutional right to protest against the government, and I wasn't even throwing Molotovs or burning tires.

Viper Zero
I will be the first to admit I know nothing of Venezuela nor did I ever claimed that I did. I never been there, never will.

No biggie, I know you didn't; I just wanted to halt the topic, since it would lead us nowhere. I used to be a nice place to visit, though.

Chavez isn't in fact paranoid. Just delusional... he sees the US acting in Venezuela as they did in Panama with Noriega. And truth is, I hope they do.
 
Viper Zero
Do I really have to explain why? I assume you would be intelligent enough to understand it by yourself.

I'm looking for your opinion as to why the AP is more credible than the other two. No one has a monopoly on truth.

The media is... conservative?

Very.

Nice one, this should be in the comedy forum!

Feel free to post it there. Or in your signature if you want.

I think the media should be fair and balanced, not taking either side, but reporting the truth.

That's fine... nothing wrong with fair and balanced media.
 
Diego440
Yes it was... but it was just because I was part of the opposition, and not an active part of it at that. I mean, I wasn't a political figure or anything of the sort, I was just exercising my constitutional right to protest against the government, and I wasn't even throwing Molotovs or burning tires.



No biggie, I know you didn't; I just wanted to halt the topic, since it would lead us nowhere. I used to be a nice place to visit, though.

Chavez isn't in fact paranoid. Just delusional... he sees the US acting in Venezuela as they did in Panama with Noriega. And truth is, I hope they do.


i know Chavez is not clean, and he has his share of problems, but i just used this example because he is not in the same category of a Saddam or a terrorist. my friend is very close to Venezuela, and last time he visited, he says the social changes are making it hard for the rich and a bit better for the poor people. still, he does some things right, but i know he has a past in military, and runs the country with some restrictions...

i used him, because the mainstream of the media sees him as a dictator, so if the US decides to take some action there (some OIL problems), everybody thinks they are in the right to do it

south american countries might have some problems with the US if they don´t agree with ALCA, and that´s a major discussion here... just some non-war problems involving US foreign politics...
ok, now i´m over with offtopics...
 
What do you people make of this story? :

Making of "Winning Iraq" (FoxNews)

Does it sound like progress is being made or not? Seems like they feel it's a tough call. The program should be interesting. I'll try to catch it.

(Note the two paragraphs near the end on Basra. You can't shrug off what is going on in the southern part of the country. This is not what we had in mind.)
 
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