America - The Official Thread

[Carlos]

It is legitimately disgusting that green card holders are being denied entry into their country.

A green card holder is a lawful, legal permanent resident of the United States of America.

He is now denying people access to their homes, jobs and family. This was never one of his promises.

I think it's more questionable why people from these countries got denied access while 'real terrorists' came from different countries. Surely just a coincidence that mister Trump has no active business there. The reaction from Iraq to deny Americans access is going to be interesting too, since private security contractors then have to leave.

 

[mustafur]

Wait until you need us in that China sea dealio, then we can talk.

Oh so now other countries exist now, why the change of heart?

There is a reason why all the Nato & Freinds countries are soo low, because America takes control of our defence via a happy congress taking Military industrial cheques to keep buisness rolling that way, remove that and suddenly we start spending again.

Besides our presense there is more for America then directly us, our land still doesn't go near that area.

 

[Joey D]

I think it's more questionable why people from these countries got denied access while 'real terrorists' came from different countries. Surely just a coincidence that mister Trump has no active business there. The reaction from Iraq to deny Americans access is going to be interesting too, since private security contractors then have to leave.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, it's less about Trump's business dealings in those countries and more about US economic and military interests. The countries that weren't banned produces large quantities of oil and several of them have US military installations in them.

Ideally, the US should have limited immigration for Saudi Arabia since that's where many of the terrorist come from.

There is a reason why all the Nato & Freinds countries are soo low, because America takes control of our defence via a happy congress taking Military industrial cheques to keep buisness rolling that way, remove that and suddenly we start spending again.

Honestly, I wish we would quit being the military defense for other countries. It would drastically reduce the amount we spend and probably would cause less conflicts in the world.

 

[xyloscissor]

Oh so now other countries exist now, why the change of heart?

What?

 

[CodeRedR51]

Honestly, I wish we would quit being the military defense for other countries. It would drastically reduce the amount we spend and probably would cause less conflicts in the world.

Totally agree. 👍

 

[mustafur]

What?

What do you mean what, you guys basically control our military and thus defense but then when we talk about America we shouldn't because we don't know a damn thing.

Give me a break, we kinda have to these days.

 

[xyloscissor]

What do you mean what, you guys basically control our military and thus defense but then when we talk about America we shouldn't because we don't know a damn thing.

Give me a break, we kinda have to these days.

So now I suddenly only think of the U.S.? What?

 

[mustafur]

Honestly, I wish we would quit being the military defense for other countries. It would drastically reduce the amount we spend and probably would cause less conflicts in the world.

Agree, even though it would cost us more, it would be significantly more efficient and we would actually have control of the things required to defend us.

So now I suddenly only think of the U.S.? What?

You don't want to reduce Military spending but then bemoan when we talk about why your politics should change forgetting your politics controls our politics.

By definition we have a self intrest to know about US politics, think of us as Citizens without a vote or voice.

 

[Carlos]

By definition we have a self intrest to know about US politics, think of us as Citizens without a vote or voice.

With a nation so influential over the rest of the world it wouldn't be that weird to think we can have a say in one of these things..

 

[xyloscissor]

You don't want to reduce Military spending but then bemoan when we talk about why your politics should change forgetting your politics controls our politics.

By definition we have a self intrest to know about US politics, think of us as Citizens without a vote or voice.

America is great, it's ok to admit it. No, you get no say in that because life is not fair.

 

[Carlos]

America is great, it's ok to admit it. No, you get no say in that because life is not fair.

Great for you maybe? The rest, not so much.

 

[xyloscissor]

Great for you maybe? The rest, not so much.

So?

 

[Northstar]

America is great, it's ok to admit it. No, you get no say in that because life is not fair.

The problem is that when you have military bases scattered around the globe those countries do kind of get a say.

 

[Carlos]

So?

If the rest of the world would act like you do, you would scream murder and fire.

 

[mustafur]

So?

It would be a damn shame if another country became a world power that controlled your military then took your guns away wouldn't it.

But don't you comment on it, y'all just jelly.

 

[andrea]

What's up next for Bannon? Already got muslim hate on 1 milli in the states. He's gotten the silly ass anti-immigration EO in effect. He just hit Jewish people with "All Lives Matter" on Holocaust remembrance day. Black History month starts next week. All Lives Matter month?

Next up is the National Security Council. Oh boy.

Crazy town. The entire military agenda will be determined by the guy that runs Breitbart.

 

[xyloscissor]

Man you guys are silly, do you actually expect a world leader and winner to just step down and give another a fair chance?



Listen up, with greatness comes much responsibilities. We try to do it right, sometimes we miss the mark and I freely admit that but to say how dare us? I say of course we dare.

If you do not like it I'd strongly suggest you pick up the baton and run with it, there is no more asinine argument than saying the winner should simply step off and let the losers have there way.

I know it hurts, too bad.

 

[mustafur]

Man you guys are silly, do you actually expect a world leader and winner to just step down and give another a fair chance?



Listen up, with greatness comes much responsibilities. We try to do it right, sometimes we miss the mark and I freely admit that but to say how dare us? I say of course we dare.

If you do not like it I'd strongly suggest you pick up the baton and run with it, there is no more asinine argument than saying the winner should simply step off and let the losers have there way.

I know it hurts, too bad.

Shame your beloved founding fathers don't agree with this ''Alliance by Defence control'' you might of had a point tying yourself to their every word.

 

[McLaren]

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/1/28/14424402/trump-visa-ban-iran-cancer

This is having an adverse impact on people's lives right now when 2 days ago it wouldn't have.

I'm genuinely curious if you were this "concerned" over the entire ban when Obama denied Iraqi refugee requests for 6 months or when the Obama administration was a partial cause for much of the conflict in that part of the world to begin with? What was Obama's promise during his campaign? Something about bringing our troops home (Bush blame)?

Oh, here's an interesting fact you're probably also outraged over. 6 of those 7 countries we've placed a temporary ban from entering have bans of their own: Iran, Iraq, Syria, Sudan, Libya, & Yemen reject Israeli passports from entering their country.

I don't agree that legal, visa-holding folks should be detained, but much of this "Muslim Ban" is a bunch of twisted news unless Muslims can only suddenly come from 7 countries.

 

[andrea]

I'm genuinely curious if you were this "concerned" over the entire ban when Obama denied Iraqi refugee requests for 6 months or when the Obama administration was a partial cause for much of the conflict in that part of the world to begin with? What was Obama's promise during his campaign? Something about bringing our troops home (Bush blame)?

Oh, here's an interesting fact you're probably also outraged over. 6 of those 7 countries we've placed a temporary ban from entering have bans of their own: Iran, Iraq, Syria, Sudan, Libya, & Yemen reject Israeli passports from entering their country.

I don't agree that legal, visa-holding folks should be detained, but much of this "Muslim Ban" is a bunch of twisted news unless Muslims can only suddenly come from 7 countries.

A: That refugee ban was fully vetted by appropriate parties in DHS and made exceptions for migrants inflight.

B: That ban was the direct result of an FBI case that showed a loophole in Refugee Vetting

C: The difference in magnitude of the Global Refugee Crisis in 2016 is simply staggering compared to what we had in 2011

D: That ban DID NOT EXTEND TO LEGAL PERMANENT RESIDENTS WITH VALID GREEN CARDS

Trump's plan was shoddily written and poorly thought out for the precise purpose of inflicting maximum amount of pain and anguish upon refugees. Your false equivalency is a joke.

 

[McLaren]

A: That refugee ban was fully vetted by appropriate parties in DHS and made exceptions for migrants inflight.

B: That ban was the direct result of an FBI case that showed a loophole in Refugee Vetting

C: The difference in magnitude of the Global Refugee Crisis in 2016 is simply staggering compared to what we had in 2011

D: That ban DID NOT EXTEND TO LEGAL PERMANENT RESIDENTS WITH VALID GREEN CARDS

Trump's plan was shoddily written and poorly thought out for the precise purpose of inflicting maximum amount of pain and anguish upon refugees. Your false equivalency is a joke.

Nice to see you can actually argue instead of continually treating the thread like Twitter.

Failed to address how the Obama Administration was still a partial cause for all this mess in the first place, but you've proven that anything with Trump attached = bad, even if someone else did something similar. Part of the reasoning for this ban is as you stated for Obama; to improve the vetting process. I agree some of it was improperly handled, but I'm not going to get into a fake outrage over the entire ban & purposely hold misinformed signs or pull a CNN & claim, "134,000,000 are banned from the US".

 

[mustafur]

Nice to see you can actually argue instead of continually treating the thread like Twitter.

Failed to address how the Obama Administration was still a partial cause for all this mess in the first place, but you've proven that anything with Trump attached = bad, even if someone else did something similar.

I'll just save everyone's time here and say it's probably a media thing, we don't know about things until reported then go by what we know, I'm sure we are not partisan enough to hold hands on agree on it all lolol.

 

[Joey D]

I'll just save everyone's time here and say it's probably a media thing, we don't know about things until reported then go by what we know, I'm sure we are not partisan enough to hold hands on agree on it all lolol.

To be fair, the media did play a roll in it. I'm not sure how it was abroad, but domestically Obama was loved by the media (except for Fox News) and things were often reported with a bias in favor of Obama instead of calling out stupid things he did. Fox New should have been able to do that, but instead of bringing up legitimate concerns about Obama they often just resorted to "lol he's a commie who wants to steal your guns!"

The American people should have paid better attention to what was going on and held Obama accountable just as they plan to hold Trump accountable, but we didn't. Now we have Trump who's attempting to correct some of Obama's misdoings but using the "nuke it from orbit" approach instead of actually trying to solve the problem using any intelligent approach.

 

[mustafur]

To be fair, the media did play a roll in it. I'm not sure how it was abroad, but domestically Obama was loved by the media (except for Fox News) and things were often reported with a bias in favor of Obama instead of calling out stupid things he did. Fox New should have been able to do that, but instead of bringing up legitimate concerns about Obama they often just resorted to "lol he's a commie who wants to steal your guns!"

The American people should have paid better attention to what was going on and held Obama accountable just as they plan to hold Trump accountable, but we didn't. Now we have Trump who's attempting to correct some of Obama's misdoings but using the "nuke it from orbit" approach instead of actually trying to solve the problem using any intelligent approach.

Yeah it's the same here, most people that talk about it have their opinions made by what little information the media decides to give them.

 

[Com Fox]

It's one thing to argue there's no definitive proof of sexual assault, it's quite another to say 'Donald said it was consensual, so it must be true!'. Well, I guess that settles that then.

I used to think Hillary was probably corrupt, but then she said "I'm not corrupt", so I changed my mind on that too..............

Well there is no evidence what so ever to prove that it is sexual assault.

The conversation is the only evidence of Trump groping women and he says that they let him do it, if there was other evidence to prove it was sexual assault I would raise some red flags but the conversation is the only proof we have and we can't just assume it's sexual assault.

 

[Sanji Himura]

Well there is no evidence what so ever to prove that it is sexual assault.

The conversation is the only evidence of Trump groping women and he says that they let him do it, if there was other evidence to prove it was sexual assault I would raise some red flags but the conversation is the only proof we have and we can't just assume it's sexual assault.

As @Chrunch Houston so kindly pointed out, the quote is a sound bite taken extremely out of context:

"And when you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab them by the pussy." ~ Donald J. Trump

Can we please toss this notion of Trump being a sexual predator into the same trash heap as Trump being Hitler?

 

[xyloscissor]

Shame your beloved founding fathers don't agree with this ''Alliance by Defence control'' you might of had a point tying yourself to their every word.

I know that to be true, but you seem to like the idea of us integrating in some sort of world government and disarming ourselves. It is not exactly a secret how I feel about foreign affairs is it?

I'd be all for removing our bases around the globe and keeping our forces here because it is what we should do, where does that leave you?

 

[Dotini]

I'd be all for removing our bases around the globe and keeping our forces here because it is what we should do,

This is a vexing issue for me. I agree in principle because of my admiration for the desires of the founders and for the constitution, and also because of my libertarian leanings. But history took an ill turn for us with President William McKinley. When he assumed office, we were a continental republic; when he left we were a global empire. Once into the briar patch, it's hard to get out. Have we broken enough pottery around the world that it's now impossible to walk away from the barn without paying the bill for the damage we've caused? How do we do that? If we abandoned all 900(?) military bases around the world in other people's countries, would that help or hurt?

In the meantime, we are slowly being crucified on a cross of debt. We surely need to get NATO members and other client states around the world to pick up more of the tab for defense. But many are in worse financial shape than ourselves. The only certainty is that the future is going to cost money - a lot of it. We need to spend prudently and get into the strongest possible economy and financial condition. Without that foundation, fighting the wars to come, climate problems and sundry other disasters will be a hopeless battle. In short - wait for it - America first.

 

[Carlos]

I know that to be true, but you seem to like the idea of us integrating in some sort of world government and disarming ourselves. It is not exactly a secret how I feel about foreign affairs is it?

I'd be all for removing our bases around the globe and keeping our forces here because it is what we should do, where does that leave you?

That would leave the rest of the world with their responsibility and I think it would save America a few unnecessary conflicts. It's good to be allies, but the presence of these bases over the world can leave other 'greats' to see you as the aggressor and the host as potential enemy. Maybe we can start having less and see how that works out..

 

[xyloscissor]

To both of you a question, like Ron Paul much?