America - The Official Thread

[TenEightyOne]

This morning Trump is asking why the Fake Nooos aren't reporting why the National Debt went down by $12 billion during his first month when it went up $200 billion in Obama's.

The reasons are likely manifold; firstly the actual debt to the public hasn't changed (the readjustments are internal), secondly it's still Obama's budget, and thirdly the $200 billion rise in Obama's early term was from the government assumption of debt following the banking crash.

This is what makes me most nervous about Trump's news strategy; everyone who disagrees with him is fake... but that includes the fact-checkers. Attempting to discredit questioners/opposition to your ideas simply for the sake of bolstering your own apparent truthfulness isn't (and shouldn't become) a hallmark of American speech. America has issues of one type or another just as every country does - but they're way way better than what this presidency threatens to see them become.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Attempting to discredit questioners/opposition to your ideas simply for the sake of bolstering your own apparent truthfulness isn't (and shouldn't become) a hallmark of American speech.

For all his railing against the fake news, part of Trump's media strategy appears to consist of flooding the public consciousness with fake news stories of his own - like the budgetary one you described - so that people cannot tell up from down and so turn to the White House (or a White House-friendly news outlet like FOX) for "news". Which gives Trump a platform to say whatever he wants without any filter.

 

[fatkrakr]

This morning Trump is asking why the Fake Nooos aren't reporting why the National Debt went down by $12 billion during his first month when it went up $200 billion in Obama's.

The reasons are likely manifold; firstly the actual debt to the public hasn't changed (the readjustments are internal), secondly it's still Obama's budget, and thirdly the $200 billion rise in Obama's early term was from the government assumption of debt following the banking crash.

This is what makes me most nervous about Trump's news strategy; everyone who disagrees with him is fake... but that includes the fact-checkers. Attempting to discredit questioners/opposition to your ideas simply for the sake of bolstering your own apparent truthfulness isn't (and shouldn't become) a hallmark of American speech. America has issues of one type or another just as every country does - but they're way way better than what this presidency threatens to see them become.

For all his railing against the fake news, part of Trump's media strategy appears to consist of flooding the public consciousness with fake news stories of his own - like the budgetary one you described - so that people cannot tell up from down and so turn to the White House (or a White House-friendly news outlet like FOX) for "news". Which gives Trump a platform to say whatever he wants without any filter.

 

[TenEightyOne]

View attachment 630322

Instead of masturbating (or whatever your picture is meant to tell us you're doing) perhaps you could answer the points raised? Makes for far better discussion than being forced to picture your nights in

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I think he's trying to sarcastically suggest we're crying over nothing. Because apparently he sees nothing wrong with the government having complete control over the press. I mean, it works for Kim Jong-un - nobody questions his authority.

 

[fatkrakr]

actual debt to the public hasn't changed

Looks like 12 billion to me.

secondly it's still Obama's budget

Don't know what the hell that is.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Don't know what the hell that is.

It's very clearly the wrong link! Here you go... http://uk.businessinsider.com/trump...nth-under-obama-stock-market-2017-2?r=US&IR=T

 

[fatkrakr]

I think he's trying to sarcastically suggest we're crying over nothing.

 

[fatkrakr]

Here you go...

According to that what he said is true. Debts down 12 billion and Obama spent 200 billion. You might not think hes responsible, but it isn't a lie.

 

[andrea]

With Trump going on about Fake News organisations, his favourite source for news Fox News discusses the Swedish "situation" further and interviews "Swedish Defence and National Security Advisor" Nils Bildt, who no one in Sweden has ever heard of.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...dvisor-unknown-to-countrys-military-officials

 

[Imari]

According to that what he said is true. Debts down 12 billion and Obama spent 200 billion. You might not think hes responsible, but it isn't a lie.

Ironically, it's the same loose interpretation of facts that he so despises in the fake news.

Firstly, that 12 billion probably isn't down to him at all, given that he's only been there a month and has hardly had time to implement economic policy, let alone have it take effect. And secondly, there are sound reasons for why Obama "spent" the 200 billion, and they weren't exactly of Obama's making.

If Trump wants to compare the two, then there's a whole lot more that needs to be taken into consideration. But I suspect he's just pulled two numbers out of the many available, because this one makes him feel like a big man.

I continue to find it odd that even a month after winning the Presidency of one of the most influential countries in the world he still needs to have his ego massaged like this. Talk about never satisfied.

 

[Tornado]

I continue to find it odd that even a month after winning the Presidency of one of the most influential countries in the world he still needs to have his ego massaged like this.

I don't. It's Donald Trump.

 

[Dotini]

According to that what he said is true. Debts down 12 billion and Obama spent 200 billion. You might not think hes responsible, but it isn't a lie.

I happen to believe, like many libertarians, that debt and foreign wars of choice are our two worst problems. I'm deeply satisfied that Democrats are reduced to regional status at best, and Republicans, while enjoying controlling majorities everywhere except for the liberal coasts, are in circular firing squad mode, the political equivalent of NASCAR racing where 80% of the participants are working with concussions if not fatal wounds.

 

[fatkrakr]

Firstly, that 12 billion probably isn't down to him at all

Where did he say it was? That's you all putting words in his mouth then trying to hang him for those words.

secondly, there are sound reasons for why Obama "spent" the 200 billion

Again where did he say it wasnt needed? You putting words in his mouth again.

 

[Swagger897]

Is it? Trump is pretty relevant to America right now, and while there's some moaning there's a lot of valid stuff about him and his government to discuss.

Okay, so keep it in a respective thread of its own then if this topic will be devoted to it for the next 25+ pages.

 

[Imari]

Where did he say it was? That's you all putting words in his mouth than trying to hang him for those words.

Not really. How is one meant to interpret the complaint that the media hasn't covered the difference in national debt? If it's not a relevant metric for him and his government versus the Obama administration, why would he even mention it?

Seriously, a little critical thinking please. You can't just claim that he didn't mean anything by what he said. He's inviting the comparison of the first month of Trump vs. Obama, and the implication (because we're well aware of how Trump thinks at this point) is that he's somehow won.

Ignoring the fact that he is president. He not competing with anyone, his job is to run the country as best he can given the current situation. Making comparison to government during the GFC shows a profound misunderstanding of what government is for. Despite the fact that he has won and is no longer in competition with anyone, he keeps trying to score points off non-existent "opponents".

Obama can't touch him. Clinton can't touch him. The Democrats can't touch him. He just has to do his job and quit flailing his knob around.

Again where did he say it wasnt needed? You putting words in his mouth again.

He didn't, but it's strongly implied if one is going to make the comparison. Otherwise one would write them off as completely different and incomparable situations.

If he thinks that the economic stimulation was needed (as GW Bush also did), then he wouldn't bother making that tweet. One does not brag that their relatively stable economy is doing better than one in crisis, because that's obvious and trivial. Especially when one did not create that stable economy.

Okay, so keep it in a respective thread of its own then if this topic will be devoted to it for the next 25+ pages.

You're welcome to try and start one if you think it will be popular. You might want to ask the mods opinion first though, they may just merge it if they disagree.

 

[fatkrakr]

How is one meant to interpret the complaint that the media hasn't covered the difference in national debt?

You probably shouldnt be trying to "interpret" it and just go by what he said. I know novel idea, but its worked in the past.

The way I see it he is saying how the media jumps all over how his presidency is gonna cost the American economy billions if not trillions of dollars yet the debt is down 12 billion since he became president and all you get from the media is crickets. While at the same time his predecessor ( who hes compared to by the media) had a rise of 200 billion by now.

 

[TenEightyOne]

According to that what he said is true.

Fair point, it should be easy enough to check.

Debts down 12 billion...

Given your apparently-diametric opposition to critical assessment, how about looking at the raw figures? The debt hasn't moved since inauguration day.

...and Obama spent 200 billion.

No he didn't, that Act was signed by George W. Bush, there was no "spending" for Obama to do. The Act was already in place and the public protections were well underway as Obama began his first quarter.

...all you get from the media is crickets....his predecessor ( who hes compared to by the media)....

Well, which is it, crickets or reporting comparisons? Or doesn't unfavourable reporting count?

You probably shouldnt be trying to "interpret" it and just go by what he said. I know novel idea, but its worked in the past.

Well howzabout that then? It still works.

EDIT: In other news, the teaser for the worst-ever episode of Dinner Date has been revealed;

 

[fatkrakr]

Well, which is it, crickets or reporting comparisons? Or doesn't unfavourable reporting count?

Way to take my words out of context to suit your agenda. Your very skilled at that, but shows a lack being able to support your own claims.

 

[Johnnypenso]

A vehicle has ploughed into a crowd during a Mardi Gras parade in New Orleans, with dozens of people injured:

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-...zens-injured-after-vehicle-hits-crowd/8304624

Police have the driver in custody and are investigating him for driving while drunk. Terrorism is not being considered as a motive.

Fake news on your part:

while he did not strictly rule out terrorism as a motive,

 

[LeMansAid]

Exciting stuff. The prospect of it being some drunk white guy, and not an Islamic terrorist, gets me amped.

Would be to the espousing of Islam's peacefulness, what a good ol' stabbing spree is to championing gun freedom. Glory be.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Way to take my words out of context to suit your agenda....a lack being able to support your own claims.

I showed you that his comments have been reported and I showed you the Treasury figures that prove his claim to be false. I'm not sure how much more I can do to help you?

 

[TRGTspecialist]

You probably shouldnt be trying to "interpret" it.........

The way I see it he is saying......

.........

 

[fatkrakr]

I showed you that his comments have been reported and I showed you the Treasury figures that prove his claim to be false. I'm not sure how much more I can do to help you?

actual debt to the public hasn't changed

That says exactly what Trump said down by 12 billion. Your going to have to help me see how its not down 12 billion since 1/20/2017.

.........

I only used the words Trump actually said. While others are adding their own words to what he said to suit their stance. You shouldnt try interpreting things if your going to make up half of what was said.

 

[Encyclopedia]

With Trump going on about Fake News organisations, his favourite source for news Fox News discusses the Swedish "situation" further and interviews "Swedish Defence and National Security Advisor" Nils Bildt, who no one in Sweden has ever heard of.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...dvisor-unknown-to-countrys-military-officials

And also happens to be a criminal immigrant. You couldn't make this up.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

You might not think hes responsible, but it isn't a lie.

It's not a lie, but Trump is trying to imply that he is responsible for the cut.

 

[TenEightyOne]

That says exactly what Trump said down by 12 billion. Your going to have to help me see how its not down 12 billion since 1/20/2017.

You may be looking at the wrong column - ignore the "intra-governmental" figures and concentrate on the "debt held by the public", that's the actual debt figure. See a 12-billion shift there? No.

 

[fatkrakr]

You may be looking at the wrong column - ignore the "intra-governmental" figures and concentrate on the "debt held by the public", that's the actual debt figure. See a 12-billion shift there? No.

Im looking at the Total Public Debt Outstanding. Thats what we owe.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Im looking at the Total Public Debt Outstanding. Thats what we owe.

Nope, that's intra-governmental balancing in the right-hand columns, it has no final effect on the debt held by the public. Try reading the links again, there are also some FAQs in there that will help you out.

However you try to cut it there a) isn't a 12-billion drop in the public debt since inauguration day and b) any debt drop that has occured (it's shifted slightly) isn't down to any Trump policies as he hasn't actually altered the policies he inherited from the last government yet.

 

[fatkrakr]

Nope, that's intra-governmental balancing in the right-hand columns, it has no final effect on the debt held by the public. Try reading the links again, there are also some FAQs in there that will help you out.

However you try to cut it there a) isn't a 12-billion drop in the public debt since inauguration day and b) any debt drop that has occured (it's shifted slightly) isn't down to any Trump policies as he hasn't actually altered the policies he inherited from the last government yet.

There two different types of debt, but still debt the American tax payer is responsible for. Combined is the 19 trillion America owes, we dont just owe the 14 trillion you refer to.