America - The Official Thread

[Dotini]

I never did get to catch Benjamin Netanyahu's speech in the end, having been called away of a sudden, though I was keen to hear him follow-up on what the Don had to say; he was supposed to follow the U.S. Prez. I did hear that he praised the speech, and I'm not surprised by that - watching his expressions while Mr. Trump speechified spoke volumes.

As for a military option against NoKo - that should be off the table. This isn't Bin Ladin.
And the history of exactly why Korea hates Japan goes back a long, long way . . ..
That is at the core of this matter. It's still only a truce.

Trump's bluster serves to stir fear and anger, and entertain the folks. Destroying North Korea is justifiable only in self-defense. A peace treaty to replace the truce is desirable in theory, but in practice it would remove justification for permanent US bases in South Korea. Which as you almost alluded, was unjustifiable in the first place.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Mueller has requested documents relating to Trump's handling of the Comey Affair.

It remains to be seen if this is fake news, FBI corruption/bias or Hamilton's fault.

BBC.

 

[Carbonox]

So, a bunch of Erdogoons have been assaulting protesters on American soil. I wonder if there'll be consequences...

http://armenianweekly.com/2017/05/16/breaking-pro-erdogan-group-attacks-peaceful-protesters-in-d-c

Another edition of the same. Sadly, the status quo hasn't changed since.

 

[Com Fox]

http://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...ick-up-and-leave-games-if-people-kneel-during

To be honest, find this ironic of Trump fans saying that Trump is an advocate for Freedom of Speech and then he pulls something like this. Now he has the right to say his thoughts on this matter, hopefully he doesn't go and enforce it though, then there will be problems.

In my opinion, while I don't agree with the idea of kneeling during anthems, I must say it is refreshing to see stuff like this as protests instead of violent mobs as this is evident of a peaceful protest (I mean, they could've started shouting in peoples faces or bashing people nearby during anthems), and they do have the right to do these kinds of protests if they wish. I may not like it but they have every right to do it, especially since it isn't hurting anyone.

 

[Spurgy 777]

http://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...ick-up-and-leave-games-if-people-kneel-during

To be honest, find this ironic of Trump fans saying that Trump is an advocate for Freedom of Speech and then he pulls something like this. Now he has the right to say his thoughts on this matter, hopefully he doesn't go and enforce it though, then there will be problems.

In my opinion, while I don't agree with the idea of kneeling during anthems, I must say it is refreshing to see stuff like this as protests instead of violent mobs as this is evident of a peaceful protest (I mean, they could've started shouting in peoples faces or bashing people nearby during anthems), and they do have the right to do these kinds of protests if they wish. I may not like it but they have every right to do it, especially since it isn't hurting anyone.

I'm not sure how Trump can force NFL teams to fire players, what makes you think he can? I also don't see what firing players that kneel during the national anthem has to do with free speech. At the end of the day the players are paid to represent the team, if the team doesn't like your behaviour or what you say then they can fire you.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I'm not sure how Trump can force NFL teams to fire players, what makes you think he can?

Presidential pressure, I guess.

I also don't see what firing players that kneel during the national anthem has to do with free speech. At the end of the day the players are paid to represent the team, if the team doesn't like your behaviour or what you say then they can fire you.

Absolutely. As archaic (and almost North Korean) the American flag/anthem worship is to an outsider if it's what the team want from their employees then that's that. If employees don't want to do it... move on.

Incidentally, did Trump really call them "sons of bitches"? If so then it's ridiculously unprofessional and, in my opinion, way beneath his office. If not then we finally have some actual fake news

 

[Imari]

I'm not sure how Trump can force NFL teams to fire players, what makes you think he can? I also don't see what firing players that kneel during the national anthem has to do with free speech. At the end of the day the players are paid to represent the team, if the team doesn't like your behaviour or what you say then they can fire you.

Kinda. But the teams are businesses, and if they find that their income is being threatened because of customer behaviour that is instigated by the president, it becomes slightly murky waters.

There is a difference between what random Joe McPunty says and what the President of the United States says. His merest expressed opinions can have effects in ways that a normal citizens cannot. Not that the president shouldn't be able to speak his opinion, but that I think he should be cautious when he does so. He cannot claim that it's just an opinion with no effect. The President is one of the most watched people in the country, and everything he does has an effect.

The teams can do what they like, but I think Trump would be wise to keep his two cents out of it. Sports players choosing to protest on their employers time is between them and the employers.

 

[ryzno]

Incidentally, did Trump really call them "sons of bitches"?

Just listened to it.
He said, "the owners should tell those sons of bitches you're fired". In reference to the players not standing for the anthem.

 

[BobK]

I'm not sure how Trump can force NFL teams to fire players, what makes you think he can? I also don't see what firing players that kneel during the national anthem has to do with free speech. At the end of the day the players are paid to represent the team, if the team doesn't like your behaviour or what you say then they can fire you.

He can't order the NFL to fire the players, no. I'm not sure he could have any influence at all in the teams' decision. The players while representing their teams expressed an opinion. In response, Donald Trump expressed an opinion. Nothing more.

 

[TenEightyOne]

The players while representing their teams expressed an opinion. In response, Donald Trump expressed an opinion. Nothing more.

However, as @Imari said, the opinion of the President is likely to count for more than the opinion of the team players/employees.

 

[Dotini]

The NFL is in a relatively bad slump in terms of TV viewership and the sponsors are getting nervous. So the most important opinion of all is that of the fans. Team owners will be acutely aware of all that.

Part of the problem is low scoring and poor refereeing, and maybe some of the players sideline activity has a bearing.

 

[Joey D]

I'm glad all the issues the US is dealing with right now have been solved so the president can focus on whether or not a football player is standing for the National Anthem.

Seriously, like all businesses, the issue should be between the players and owners. If the owners allow it, then so be it, if they don't, then so be it.

The NFL is in a relatively bad slump in terms of TV viewership and the sponsors are getting nervous. So the most important opinion of all is that of the fans. Team owners will be acutely aware of all that.

The biggest issue with the NFL right now is the lack of talent. Look at how many teams have terrible QB's, coaches, defenses, etc. I mean would you want to pay to watch the NY Jets?

 

[UKMikey]

I guess the difference between the kneeling NFLers and this:



... is that the athletes above were amateurs representing their country and that the protesting footballers are professional employees of a private organisation. However, I wonder how many fans would take their families and walk out of the stadium in protest, potentially ruining their entire day of football over one act of protest.

I guess it'd be those spectators' right as Americans just as the sportsmen have a right to protest, but I suspect most sportsgoers would prefer to watch the match and gripe on social media like the Pres.

 

[Joey D]

However, I wonder how many fans would take their families and walk out of the stadium in protest, potentially ruining their entire day of football over one act of protest.

Considering the cost to go see an NFL game, I think players could come waving the Nazi salute and people still wouldn't leave. I mean tickets are at a minimum $65 for crap seats, plus upwards of $100 to park the car, then another $100+ if you want food and beer. On the cheap end a family of four would be in nearly $500 for a day of football in some stadiums.

 

[ryzno]

Are Olympians really amateurs?
As far as a family leaving after purchasing tickets. I think most will let their wallets talk and not buy tickets, would be a waste of to leave in protest already knowing who's gonna kneel.

but I suspect most sportsgoers would prefer to watch the match and gripe on social media like the Pres.

I believe that is a huge reason why.
While they have a huge public platform to express their views.
Most people watch TV/Movies and Sports to escape the real worlds problems, it's not entertaining to get slapped in the face with it while watching.
There is a rumor going around that players want to have a month dedicated to social injustices, like breast cancer awareness month or appreciation of the troops. Good luck NFL.

I'll still be watching my Falcons, the team announced they want nothing to do with the current situation.
Also might be the owner worried about paying for our brand new stadium...

 

[UKMikey]

Considering the cost to go see an NFL game, I think players could come waving the Nazi salute and people still wouldn't leave. I mean tickets are at a minimum $65 for crap seats, plus upwards of $100 to park the car, then another $100+ if you want food and beer. On the cheap end a family of four would be in nearly $500 for a day of football in some stadiums.

I guess these kind of sums are chicken feed to the Trumps of this world. LOL at the mental picture of linebackers turning up in Klan headgear though...

Are Olympians really amateurs?

Professional athletes weren't allowed to take part until 1986. However, the athletes in the photo were competing in 1968.

 

[DK]

I have to wonder what crapstorm Trump wants to distract from with this statement.

 

[AnthonyD1993]

Considering the cost to go see an NFL game, I think players could come waving the Nazi salute and people still wouldn't leave. I mean tickets are at a minimum $65 for crap seats, plus upwards of $100 to park the car, then another $100+ if you want food and beer. On the cheap end a family of four would be in nearly $500 for a day of football in some stadiums.

That, and your other post regarding the lack of talent in the league, have a lot to do with it. My sister turned down Lions tickets a few years ago because her thought was "I'm not spending money to watch the Lions get their asses beat." Even in baseball, we stayed at a Tigers game we had cheap tickets for while they got blown out simply because we already spent the money to buy the tickets and put forth the time to drive there.




Then there's a whole different issue given that people will protest the games regardless of the issues involved. Some people are boycotting the NFL for the players protesting, and others are boycotting because Kaepernick isn't in the league. Perhaps others could be boycotting now due to CTE concerns and don't care about the protests. But the protests are the one issue that everyone talks about since that's the one that is currently generating media buzz in the NFL.

 

[ryzno]

I have to wonder what crapstorm Trump wants to distract from with this statement.

The bombers/fighters that flew around NK today?

 

[Spurgy 777]

The bombers/fighters that flew around NK today?

Not much use it being a show of force if he tries to cover it up

 

[Lain]

Not much use it being a show of force if he tries to cover it up

A show of farce, if you will.

 

[McLaren]

http://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...ick-up-and-leave-games-if-people-kneel-during

To be honest, find this ironic of Trump fans saying that Trump is an advocate for Freedom of Speech and then he pulls something like this. Now he has the right to say his thoughts on this matter, hopefully he doesn't go and enforce it though, then there will be problems.

In my opinion, while I don't agree with the idea of kneeling during anthems, I must say it is refreshing to see stuff like this as protests instead of violent mobs as this is evident of a peaceful protest (I mean, they could've started shouting in peoples faces or bashing people nearby during anthems), and they do have the right to do these kinds of protests if they wish. I may not like it but they have every right to do it, especially since it isn't hurting anyone.

I agree with this, and I think Trump should keep his nose out of it personally. He has an opinion he can voice, but he's not very wise at wording it in a manner that doesn't piss off others.

What a lot of supporters for Kap who argue that Kap is being unfairly black balled though, seem to miss out on is that as a private business, the teams also have every right to terminate/avoid the player if what they do does not align with their principles. And I'll wager for several teams, this sort of thing faces so much public backlash for both sides, that they'd rather try to stay out of it for fear of their pocket books being affected by supporting/opposing it openly. It was supposedly said by Jerry Jones & another owner that they made a statement saying all their players will stand during the National Anthem or they will be cut b/c, "it is their team, out on their fields, being paid from their pocket books"; they don't want politics in the game people pay to see. Considering the cost it takes to go to Jerry World, thanks Jerry....

I guess the difference between the kneeling NFLers and this:

... is that the athletes above were amateurs representing their country and that the protesting footballers are professional employees of a private organisation. However, I wonder how many fans would take their families and walk out of the stadium in protest, potentially ruining their entire day of football over one act of protest.

I guess it'd be those spectators' right as Americans just as the sportsmen have a right to protest, but I suspect most sportsgoers would prefer to watch the match and gripe on social media like the Pres.

Probably not a lot, but if people are so willy nilly to walk out by half time if their team is down by 20, I'm sure some folks are out there.

Considering the cost to go see an NFL game, I think players could come waving the Nazi salute and people still wouldn't leave. I mean tickets are at a minimum $65 for crap seats, plus upwards of $100 to park the car, then another $100+ if you want food and beer. On the cheap end a family of four would be in nearly $500 for a day of football in some stadiums.

Can I see your team play? This is a $130 seat at Jerry World; 4th floor, Row 28. Or you can spend $15 for to stand at an end zone.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Rather like the baseball post in "funny gifs" I just can't comprehend what's going on here. Is it a cancer charity performance or is this a normal thing. Are they the players forming the pyramid?

 

[Joel]

Keep politics out of football, just do the entirely non-political act of respecting the Navy veteran singing the national anthem while Marines unfold a 50 foot flag and a dozen $50M jets fly over the obscenely expensive stadium built for an Army sponsored private business with taxpayer money!

 

[hejustsits]

Keep politics out of football, just do the entirely non-political act of respecting the Navy veteran singing the national anthem while Marines unfold a 50 foot flag and a dozen $50M jets fly over the obscenely expensive stadium built for an Army sponsored private business with taxpayer money!

Hit the nail on the head right there. Overzealous patriotism is so much the norm in US sports that people don't even recognize it as political, and view anything that isn't overzealous patriotism as a radical political statement. It's all a bit ridiculous, but I think situations such as this will at least pull sport more towards the center ground.

 

[Joey D]

Can I see your team play? This is a $130 seat at Jerry World; 4th floor, Row 28. Or you can spend $15 for to stand at an end zone.

I mean if you really want to see the Lions, then sure.

Granted it's been a couple years since I went to a game, but tickets were $65 for the last row in the upper bowl. $50 to park the car and between my wife and I think we dropped over $100 on food and beer (not hard when a beer is $12).

 

[TenEightyOne]

Trump .vs. NFL mildly intensifies. BBC.

 

[Joey D]

Trump .vs. NFL mildly intensifies. BBC.

I mean Trump did do it to himself there. If he'd never said anything, it'd be the same handful of players kneeling and not much else.

 

[Northstar]

I've heard that all 5 fans in attendance at the Chargers game refused to stand for the anthem. Granted there are also reports that they just fell asleep.

Seriously though, it's like Trump is in a game of "one up" with himself when it comes to putting his foot in his mouth.

 

[ryzno]

In other news, another nutt shot up a church in Nashville...
1dead 7 injured, idiot shot himself in the head...
I'll try to link it later, our TV is also the PC monitor and wifey is watching ATL United FC.

Almost forgot, while the Falcons didn't kneel both teams stood arm in arm.