America - The Official Thread

[Dotini]

Personally, I've never had a great fondness for enduring the national anthem prior to sporting events. But, it's been traditional for as long as I can remember. Part of the problem is that the military has given millions of dollars in ad money to sports teams, and have become well associated with NFL and NASCAR in particular. So some sports and militarism have become conflated. But then Colin Kapernik came along and as a protest against the condition of poor black folks (he's not one) he took a knee, a position of submission and supplication, during the anthem. When Trump became involved, the whole issue became politicized and the now the anthem is conflated not just with militarism but also racism, bigotry, pussy-gtrabbing, Russian spying and whatnot. Where this is all going I don't know. But its way past time for the military and national guard to stop buying ads with sports teams. It's probably also a good idea to think about eliminating the national anthem before sporting events, and maybe even to change the national anthem itself. I nominate "Eve of Destruction", by Barry McGuire.



Alternatively, Paint it Black, by the Rolling Stones

 

[Com Fox]

Personally, I've never had a great fondness for enduring the national anthem prior to sporting events. But, it's been traditional for as long as I can remember. Part of the problem is that the military has given millions of dollars in ad money to sports teams, and have become well associated with NFL and NASCAR in particular. So some sports and militarism have become conflated. But then Colin Kapernik came along and as a protest against the condition of poor black folks (he's not one) he took a knee, a position of submission and supplication, during the anthem. When Trump became involved, the whole issue became politicized and the now the anthem is conflated not just with militarism but also racism, bigotry, pussy-gtrabbing, Russian spying and whatnot. Where this is all going I don't know. But its way past time for the military and national guard to stop buying ads with sports teams. It's probably also a good idea to think about eliminating the national anthem before sporting events, and maybe even to change the national anthem itself. I nominate "Eve of Destruction", by Barry McGuire.



Alternatively, Paint it Black, by the Rolling Stones

I doubt changing it would solve any problems. As a lot of people who like the traditional anthem would riot over this decision and probably would do the same kneeling to the "new" anthem, we'd just enter with the same problem but in reverse. The anthem only ever became a symbol of race and bigotry because people brought those issues into it when it hasn't had anything to do with it in the first place.

I'm sure Kapernik didn't attend to blow this out of proportion as Trumps reaction was clearly out of his control. While I think Kapernik was doing it based off a lie, he had the legal right to do it and the issue should've only settled with him and his employer with no government influence. Now Trump has thrown himself in the mix in which he really shouldn't, and now since apparently everything involved with Trump has to do with race or some other form bigotry, we're stuck with this issue and has ended up with the anthem being an ultimatum of your career.

The problem isn't with what Kepernik did, it's how everyone else who has tried to take action following such events and brought their own identity politics into sports.

This makes the Adam Goodes and the AFL against the fans controversy seem tame in comparison.

 

[Joey D]

I'm not so sure Kaepernick was doing it off a lie. There really was incidents, and probably continue to be incidents, of police shooting unarmed and non-confrontational suspects. Granted, many of the more talked about incidents were based off of police using their weapons justifiably.

Also, there is a race problem in the country and Trump's actions seem to bring that problem to more of a head. When you call Neo-Nazi protesters "very fine people" and NFL players peacefully protesting "sons of bitches" then there's an issue. I don't think Trump is willfully trying to divide the nation among race, but his many of his supporters seem to latch on to what he says and use it to push their racist agenda. Same probably could be said about Obama too.

Still, I wish Trump would focus on bigger issues then peaceful protests. Never mind players have a Constitutional right to protest in a peaceful manner. But really, are some athletes kneeling really that big of a crisis when compared to the impending war with North Korea, a healthcare system that's broken, and several areas trying to recover from a natural disaster?

 

[PeterJB]

He's very good at saying everything in the most inflammatory way possible.

 

[Parker]

I've never watched football or the NFL so I'm not boycotting anything, I'm simply continuing not to watch or care, but I do find it odd that so many people seem to take issue with this but seem to be okay with players beating their wives or fighting their dogs and continuing to play the sport. Like I said, I don't follow to sport so I'm not entirely sure what the punishment was, but from what I understand many of those people continue to play the sport after being banned from a few games, to me that is a much bigger issue than someone not standing for the national anthem.

I'll continue to not be bothered either way though.

 

[Joey D]

I've never watched football or the NFL so I'm not boycotting anything, I'm simply continuing not to watch or care, but I do find it odd that so many people seem to take issue with this but seem to be okay with players beating their wives or fighting their dogs and continuing to play the sport. Like I said, I don't follow to sport so I'm not entirely sure what the punishment was, but from what I understand many of those people continue to play the sport after being banned from a few games, to me that is a much bigger issue than someone not standing for the national anthem.

I'll continue to not be bothered either way though.

The NFL started off with relatively minor suspensions for domestic violence, drug use, etc. Vick, who did the dog fighting, was essentially suspended for two seasons, but for most of that he was in prison.

The NFL has ramped up their policy now though and suspensions are much tougher. Josh Brown was kicked off the team and suspended for a number of games too.

I'd personally like to see a zero tolerance policy in the NFL regarding violence and maybe a three strike rule on drug use with increased suspension per offense.

Weirdly though the NFL likes to focus their punishments more towards what players wear on their cleats or what celebration they do when the score a touchdown. It's strange.

 

[ryzno]

Weirdly though the NFL likes to focus their punishments more towards what players wear on their cleats

I know right, wearing cleats with 9/11 never forget or a decal on a helmet to honor fallen officers is a no no.
Hypocritical...

 

[TenEightyOne]

I'd personally like to see a zero tolerance policy in the NFL regarding violence and maybe a three strike rule on drug use with increased suspension per offense.

If you allow any sort of illicit (not necessarily even illegal) drug use then, imo, the sport loses a lot of credibility.

 

[Joey D]

If you allow any sort of illicit (not necessarily even illegal) drug use then, imo, the sport loses a lot of credibility.

While I agree with you on that, it's not a good business move for the NFL. So many higher tier players end up with drug issues that if you booted them all you'd have less people coming to the game. It's why I think there probably needs to be some leeway, even if it does take away from the sport.

 

[Rich S]

Every year I do this wild bicycle race in the backwoods roads of Wisconsin and unlike all sanctioned races I've ever done they play national anthem beforehand. It always just seems so appropriate to take helmet off,etc. Before I knew what protesting this or that was, I always was in such fear to offend people unless I did the correct think. I was raised catholic and such, and saying the pledge was compulsory until public school when it was not taken seriously.

Anyways, now its hard for me to imagine not standing or taking hat off, etc. It just seems impossible for me personally. I am not patriotic, I dont worship the US government and military. My cousin did tours in Afghanistan but to be honest I just dont find myself drawn to worshiping the USA, but I do respect the pledge of allegiance, the anthem, etc. I think that you ought to show disrepsect of laws and policies in appropriate ways. If I were a top NFL player I'd try and start a discussion about criminal justice reform, making it harder to break the law so that blacks and other groups arent picked on so easily as most of us break the law all the time as there's just so many statues out there from tabs on the car, to speeding to rolling stop signs to not having proper regulatory stuff on your farm equipment the list of laws is endless, why not refore laws instead of burning the flag or burning cars or saying you hate america. I hate what the justice system has become, one of incarceration politics and not common sense. Lock up first, ask questions later.

 

[McLaren]

Shannon makes a rather good point here calling out the NFL for kneeling because Trump attacked them, rather than when Kaep. had kneeled for issues of unarmed blacks being killed or any of the other things Trump has said/done.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

That's actually a great response from Shannon Sharpe, because what gets me is the original talking point that people didn't want to unify simply because it was supposedly a disrespect toward the military. A talking point that I never agreed with, the flag being a representation of all Americans not just military. So I too find it funny that now a commentary is to be made because the NFL as a community has been slighted, nothing more or less here, and that to me is as Sharpe put it, a shame and very disappointing.

I'd rather the NFL turn the other cheek and make a witty jab at Trump being Trump, rather than indulge him like every one else does when attacked by him. Or simply not touch it like Brady, and not get into politics which I feel they should have done.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I'd rather the NFL turn the other cheek and make a witty jab at Trump being Trump, rather than indulge him like every one else does when attacked by him. Or simply not touch it like Brady, and not get into politics which I feel they should have done.

Surely it became political the moment the President weighed in and said "send that son of a bitch off the field"? I agree that the best way to combat Trump is to avoid indulging him... but when Trump speaks in public he speaks as the President of the United States of America. Even on the toilet his words are presidential. Just think about that for a moment!

 

[Danoff]

Shannon makes a rather good point here calling out the NFL for kneeling because Trump attacked them, rather than when Kaep. had kneeled for issues of unarmed blacks being killed or any of the other things Trump has said/done.

His comments about Trump using harsher language for protesting NFL players than white supremacists is fair. It's not totally fair for Putin or Middle Eastern kings because you have the whole problem of international relations. But... there's a different point to take away there. This is why it's not presidential to call out peaceful American citizens and call them names... because you can't use the same language for actual bad people who happen to be in charge of powerful countries around the world. It's not fair to put a protesting NFL player below actual horrible people, and that's what happens when you start name calling at peaceful protesters that you don't need anything from.

So Shannon's point ultimately comes home... it's not presidential for a reason.

 

[IforceV8]

Or simply not touch it like Brady, and not get into politics which I feel they should have done

The fact that #tommys balls are under inflated and he doesnt have the guts to say anything publicly says all you need to know about the guy.

 

[DDastardly00]

Disappointed in the aid response in Puerto Rico, Harvey and Irma were handled far better, Trump should quit wasting time on the NFL and get to things that really matter, tweets on Puerto Rico don't count, actions are what matters, talk is cheap. Things are really bad there, far worse than Houston or the devastation that Irma caused on the west coast of FL, the news out of Puerto Rico and seeing the complete and utter devastation there and the human living conditions is truly heart wrenching. I realize some ships were sent and they are discussing lifting the shipping restrictions, some things are in motion, but this should have been addressed sooner, like last week, instead of wasting time bashing the NFL

 

[Dotini]

Disappointed in the aid response in Puerto Rico, Harvey and Irma were handled far better, Trump should quit wasting time on the NFL and get to things that really matter, tweets on Puerto Rico don't count, actions are what matters, talk is cheap. Things are really bad there, far worse than Houston or the devastation that Irma caused on the west coast of FL, the news out of Puerto Rico and seeing the complete and utter devastation there and the human living conditions is truly heart wrenching. I realize some ships were sent and they are discussing lifting the shipping restrictions, some things are in motion, but this should have been addressed sooner, like last week, instead of wasting time bashing the NFL

Trump, like any good daddy, is an expert in creating distractions which draw attention away from ugly, difficult realities. At an instinctual, infantile level, all we really crave is entertainment and bodily gratification.

 

[zr1chris]

The fact that #tommys balls are under inflated and he doesnt have the guts to say anything publicly says all you need to know about the guy.

Yup, he's a complete psycho that only cares about winning SuperBowls. lol

 

[DDastardly00]

Trump, like any good daddy, is an expert in creating distractions which draw attention away from ugly, difficult realities. At an instinctual, infantile level, all we really crave is entertainment and bodily gratification.

My next comment might offend a few people (since global warming seems to be a touchy subject for conservatives), but after this unprecedented hurricane season that saw the appearance of two category 5 hurricanes and a category 4, I sincerely hope Trump reverses course and takes a stand against the climate change deniers and the big corporate lobbyists trying to increase profit margins by lobbying to loosen restrictions. The first step to finding a solution is acknowledging the problem exists. I could care less about fat rich men getting fatter and richer while using the Earth as their toilet paper. This is our home, we need to take care of it if we want to exist. And even if we do as Stephen Hawking suggests and try create settlements in space or colonize other planets, what does it matter if we can't change our impact on our own ecosystem?

 

[TenEightyOne]

The good thing about carrying out your Presidential duties on Twitter is that you can delete your tweets and completely un-say things.

 

[Pupik]

Then again, maybe NASCAR is living in 2014 and they're seeing this as an opportune situation to just "YOLO"

NASCAR sets its watch back one hour and twenty years, and the only flag they truly praise is the yellow one.

 

[Com Fox]

I'm not so sure Kaepernick was doing it off a lie. There really was incidents, and probably continue to be incidents, of police shooting unarmed and non-confrontational suspects. Granted, many of the more talked about incidents were based off of police using their weapons justifiably.

Sorry for late reply, kind of forgot about my notifications of this thread.

I won't argue there isn't a race issue. The lie I was referring wasn't the fact that race was an issue, it is and the way some people are trying to "resolve" this issue are only making it worse, albeit I think this issue is actually more about ideologies and communities than actual race as opinions on matter seem to take priority for people who are on the wrong side of an opinion.

However, the issue mainly comes from race baiting media and people actually soaking it up, while there have been actual evidence of bad shootings (presumably by race) most of time either the shooting was done in response to an action (like trying to grab the police officers gun or threats of violence) or police officers being either release from their jobs (which IMO isn't a suitable punishment for killing someone but still is something done) or even imprisonment themselves.

http://nypost.com/2016/01/02/myth-of-the-cop-killing-epidemic/

https://stream.org/hands-dont-shoot-myth-many-black-americans-believe/

Also, there is a race problem in the country and Trump's actions seem to bring that problem to more of a head. When you call Neo-Nazi protesters "very fine people" and NFL players peacefully protesting "sons of bitches" then there's an issue. I don't think Trump is willfully trying to divide the nation among race, but his many of his supporters seem to latch on to what he says and use it to push their racist agenda. Same probably could be said about Obama too.

While I do a lot with this especially on Trump calling Neo-Nazi protesters fine people (guessing he somehow confused them with political speakers often labelled as Nazis even though these people had Nazi symbolism all over them ). I don't necessarily know of major incidents of people using this to push their racist ideologies (not even with Obama as the Police shootings were more of a catalyst than anything he said). Would like to see some evidence.

Still, I wish Trump would focus on bigger issues then peaceful protests.

Definitely agree, I established it when I posted that Link of Trumps comments.

But really, are some athletes kneeling really that big of a crisis when compared to the impending war with North Korea, a healthcare system that's broken, and several areas trying to recover from a natural disaster?

I don't think it's a massive crisis at all in comparison. It's another case of a minor problem only making it worse when you mention it and start to make threat suggestions about it, when really, it shouldn't be any of his business.

 

[TexRex]

I sincerely hope Trump reverses course and takes a stand against the climate change deniers and the big corporate lobbyists trying to increase profit margins by lobbying to loosen restrictions.

Those are his core supporters with whom he shares those beliefs, so even if flipping 180º guaranteed a second term (not that he actually wants one--I believe wholly that he realizes it's not even worth the attention he gets and does what he's been doing with hopes of his current term being cut short--but that's another topic), I don't think he can pull it off. That crowd is either too stupid to consider man, not God, has a major impact on the environment, or they choose to not admit to knowing this because admitting there's a problem and not being willing to change their oil-swilling ways in order to help matters may actually make them look worse.

 

[McLaren]

Disappointed in the aid response in Puerto Rico, Harvey and Irma were handled far better, Trump should quit wasting time on the NFL and get to things that really matter, tweets on Puerto Rico don't count, actions are what matters, talk is cheap. Things are really bad there, far worse than Houston or the devastation that Irma caused on the west coast of FL, the news out of Puerto Rico and seeing the complete and utter devastation there and the human living conditions is truly heart wrenching. I realize some ships were sent and they are discussing lifting the shipping restrictions, some things are in motion, but this should have been addressed sooner, like last week, instead of wasting time bashing the NFL

Puerto Rico's Governor would disagree.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/30/us/puerto-rico-hurricane-recovery/index.html

We need to do a lot more in order for us to get out of the emergency," Puerto Rico Gov. Ricardo Rosselló said in San Juan. "But the other thing that's also true is that the administration has answered and has complied with our petitions in an expedited manner."

As for the Cruz scandal, a neighboring mayor said she's playing politics and also praised the administration's help.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...ing-politics-awol-at-meetings/article/2636185

The mayor of a Puerto Rican city that sits next to San Juan praised the administration's help Saturday night, and chided the "politics" of San Juan Mayor Carmen Yulin Cruz, who has been criticizing President Trump.

In an interview with Secrets, Guaynabo Mayor Angel Perez Otero said that in several meetings with FEMA and U.S. military officials about the recovery effort, Yulin Cruz has been absent. "I've seen other mayors participating. She's not," said Perez Otero.

Perez Otero said that he has been in constant contact with military, FEMA and White House officials and has been promised that "they won't leave until Puerto Rico is good." He added that a top Trump aide quoted the president saying that the aid so far "is not enough. There is going to be more."

But he said that recovery aid is pouring in. "We are receiving a lot of help from FEMA and the Red Cross...there is lots of help coming to us," said Perez Otero.

I have seen 1 post from a Puerto Rican online that described the slow delivery of supplies down to the island's own issues.

I am from Puerto Rico and that is my mayor. The complete collapse of the electric system and communications is a complete irresponsibility from part of my "leaders".
The electric company(AEE) is actually government controlled and it's the most worthless and unreliable system there is. (I actually been without electricity for almost 1 month).
They have NEVER given the proper maintainace of the system. They have a monopoly on the electric power generation and the whole organization is bankrupted, this just shows you how corrupt they are.

And yes, there have been tons of supplies and fuel coming from the USA, but the distribution process that have been worthless.
I actually am grateful for all the help we have received from the federal government, without it, this would have been a purge in the whole island.

 

[Dotini]

Massive unfunded debt confronts many US cities, counties and states. Massive tax increases appear to be immediately required. Click on charts to enlarge.



So, what will it take to fix the mess in these various municipal budgets? How about massive tax hikes of ~30% or a slight 76,121% increase in worker pension contributions in Honolulu...



http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...depict-which-cities-will-file-bankruptcy-next

 

[mustafur]

What the hell is America doing?
https://theintercept.com/2017/10/03...on-condemning-death-penalty-for-lgbtq-people/

Is This part of Trumps strategy to bend over to the Saudis or something, this is scary.

 

[TenEightyOne]

What the hell is America doing?
https://theintercept.com/2017/10/03...on-condemning-death-penalty-for-lgbtq-people/

It seems that they don't want to undermine any individual country's option to demand death penalties.

 

[mustafur]

It seems that they don't want to undermine any individual country's option to demand death penalties.

It seems some poor article has fooled me in this one.

“The United States unequivocally condemns the application of the death penalty for homosexuality, blasphemy, adultery and apostasy. As in years past, we voted against this resolution because of broader concerns with the resolution’s approach to condemning the death penalty in all circumstances.”

 

[Rage Racer]

W-w-what?

I thought it's a joke, but it's not:
http://edition.cnn.com/videos/cnnmo...meddling-extended-to-pokemon-go-byers-bts.cnn

 

[Northstar]

W-w-what?

I thought it's a joke, but it's not:
http://edition.cnn.com/videos/cnnmo...meddling-extended-to-pokemon-go-byers-bts.cnn

One of these days they will use your presence here as proof.