America - The Official Thread

  • Thread starter ///M-Spec
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An advocacy group, The Calguns Foundation (CGF), who played a role in the suit that just got pummeled, actually paid the fee to keep the patent active and delay implementation of the microstamping law.

https://www.calgunsfoundation.org/cgf-microstamping

That said, why this California-specific gun issue was brought up here and not in the guns thread is beyond me.
 
ryzno
Maxine Waters just said after the "Red Hen" thing to "harass them in the streets, they won't be able to go to a gasoline station". Talking about Trump administration employees.
Not exactly rioting but still calling for harassment of people.
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Its not even close to a call for rioting, let alone an attempt to incite rioting. Which is what it was clearly stated to have been.

Poorly chosen words? Yes without a doubt. A call for direct violent action on the streets, well that would take a rather massive leap.

ryzno
What could go wrong?
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Plenty could go wrong, but if you are happy to use that logic it heads into a some rather iffy territory for the first amendment.

I mean what could go wrong with repeated calls to physically attack political opponents (which 45 himself has done repeatedly and even offered to cover the legal fees of those involved)? If you believe that Maxine Waters should be held accountable for her words (which is clearly less likely to fall under the 'fighting words' area that calls for actual attacks), then what about Trumps?

What about repeated accusations that the media are the "enemy of the American people"?

More importantly what about Trump supporter Milo?

"can’t wait for the vigilante squads to start gunning journalists down on sight!"

Now he claims to have been joking (and use of that defence would expose a massive double standard), but the Daily Stormer took it as a great sign.
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch...-killing-journalists-and-hes-not-being-ironic

Now to be 100% clear in my position and view on all of the above. I'm of the view that any direct calls to attack someone using clear language may well fall foul of being 'fighting words', and Milo and Trump's calls for physical attacks I personally thing fall into that category (and Milo issuing the threat in a text doesn't get a pass either, you text a journalist you know its going to end up in the public arena, and if you then double down on it on social media that excuse disappears).

Trump calling the press the 'enemy' and Waters calling for 'harassment' I don't believe do, however both are examples of extremely poorly worded attacks on the relative opposition.
 
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Scaff
Its not even close to a call for rioting, let alone an attempt to incite rioting. Which is what it was clearly stated to have been.

Poorly chosen words? Yes without a doubt. A call for direct violent action on the streets, well that would take a rather massive leap.


Plenty could go wrong, but if you are happy to use that logic it heads into a some rather iffy territory for the first amendment.

I mean what could go wrong with repeated calls to physically attack political opponents (which 45 himself has done repeatedly and even offered to cover the legal fees of those involved)? If you believe that Maxine Waters should be held accountable for her words (which is clearly less likely to fall under the 'fighting words' area that calls for actual attacks), then what about Trumps?

What about repeated accusations that the media are the "enemy of the American people"?
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To be fair, it only seems to be a minority of Republicans that seem to agree with this.
 
Dennisch
I'm blaming Trump for this one, but the OC&E forum is currently in its saddest state since I've been a member. You're all acting like US politicians during election times, throwing petty remarks at each other, and turning discussions into a he said/she said kindergarten squabble.
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If posting links to idiot stuff that a bunch of idiots on YouTube/Twitter/Reddit/Tumblr did is all some people are going to bother with to make the "[Blue/Red] team SUCKS my [Red/Blue] team is better" point, this section may as well be shut down.

The probability of finding a bunch of idiots associated with any cause ever, on the Inter-freaking-net, must surely approach 1. Can't seriously believe anyone thinks this adds anything to the discussion.
 
baldgye
To be fair, it only seems to be a minority of Republicans that seem to agree with this.
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Probably because in general Republicans are pretty proud of their democracy and are aware that a free press is a major component of such.

Republicans are also big on holding government to account, and that's largely impossible if you're not able to be informed about what government is doing. The free press is the major non-government controlled source of information about the government.

TRGTspecialist
The probability of finding a bunch of idiots associated with any cause ever, on the Inter-freaking-net, must surely approach 1. Can't seriously believe anyone thinks this adds anything to the discussion.
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Idiots on the internet?

image.png


Scaff
http://thehill.com/policy/internati...ump-telling-officials-he-wants-to-withdraw-us
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He really doesn't get free trade, does he? I think he could complain if everyone just sent the US free goods, services and money.

"This is totally screwing us, where are we supposed to put all these Ferraris and gold bars and Grey Poupon? This is just the rest of the world taking advantage of America to store their crap."
 
Imari
Probably because in general Republicans are pretty proud of their democracy and are aware that a free press is a major component of such.
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Unfortunately I was being sarcastic,Wait, it's been a long day... that link shows just over half of Republicans polled think that the media is an enemy of the people;

ONJR2UFYJU6CTF6BNTLNTXK7M4.jpg
 
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The press has not always been an enemy of the people, though they often played a big role in fanning the flames of discontent. Their primary mission should be to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable as well as to honestly report important news, sports and weather. But having become a cutthroat competitive industry, they have found it necessary to pander, pontificate and propagandize. IMO, long ago they (mostly) knuckled under to the establishment.
 
baldgye
Unfortunately I was being sarcastic,Wait, it's been a long day... that link shows just over half of Republicans polled think that the media is an enemy of the people;

ONJR2UFYJU6CTF6BNTLNTXK7M4.jpg
Click to expand...

Which seems to fall in line with the rate of morons among the general population. Remember that half the population has an IQ under 100...

I'd rather give credit to the other half who are, as expected, normal and rational people with an appreciation of democracy.
 
Dotini
The press has not always been an enemy of the people, though they often played a big role in fanning the flames of discontent. Their primary mission should be to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable as well as to honestly report important news, sports and weather. But having become a cutthroat competitive industry, they have found it necessary to pander, pontificate and propagandize. IMO, long ago they (mostly) knuckled under to the establishment.
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I feel like a bigger problem is that most mainstream media is owned and controlled by a minority to push an agenda. It can be impossible to combat to due to people or groups involved and their power and money.
Just look at Sinclair. Though it dosn't help anyone that the President has and has continued to attack the press.

The press hasn't ever been an enemy of the people.

Imari
Which seems to fall in line with the rate of morons among the general population. Remember that half the population has an IQ under 100...

I'd rather give credit to the other half who are, as expected, normal and rational people with an appreciation of democracy.
Click to expand...

idk much this means but TIL
 
Scaff
The WTO joins the list of groups/countries/etc that Trump considers are ripping off American and the US needs to leave.

http://thehill.com/policy/internati...ump-telling-officials-he-wants-to-withdraw-us
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To think there was a time I thought myself ridiculous for thinking Chubby Cheez-It was just trying to **** things up as much as possible before being unceremoniously punted out of office.

Dotini
I agree. Out! I was at the WTO '99, the Battle in Seattle, protesting on two days. Got many tasty photos!
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(Upskirts?)

:rolleyes:
 
baldgye
I feel like a bigger problem is that most mainstream media is owned and controlled by a minority to push an agenda. It can be impossible to combat to due to people or groups involved and their power and money.
Just look at Sinclair. Though it dosn't help anyone that the President has and has continued to attack the press.

The press hasn't ever been an enemy of the people.



idk much this means but TIL
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When the press went into corporate ownership, its fidelity to the people became questionable.
 
baldgye
That doesn't make it an enemy of the people, it just requires people to be more open minded and to be aware of what they are reading and who it's coming from.
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I never said exactly that the press was an enemy of the people. But I do wonder just exactly what would qualify as "an enemy of the people"?
How about wars, fraud, crime, drugs and obesity? When the press becomes owned by corporations including munitions manufacturers, banks, big pharma, and sugary sodas, then would you accept that the press may not be the peoples' best friend? :confused:
 
Dotini
I never said exactly that the press was an enemy of the people. But I do wonder just exactly what would qualify as "an enemy of the people"?
How about wars, fraud, crime, drugs and obesity? When the press becomes owned by corporations including munitions manufacturers, banks, big pharma, and sugary sodas, then would you accept that the press may not be the peoples' best friend? :confused:
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I mean, the role of the press is to keep governments in check and keep people informed, and I guess it's the role of the people to keep the press in line. But there has been a serious breakdown, in part due to people only consuming news that confirms opinions they have. It's a vicious cycle which you see spill out here all the time.

I think it's the people's job to keep the press honest and fair and at the moment that just isn't happening and social media is only making it easier for people to keep their head buried in the confirmation bias sand (:lol:).

Dotini
But I do wonder just exactly what would qualify as "an enemy of the people"?
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Agreed, but I imagine this is the line used because it is emotional and ambiguous.
 
What Trump believes about trade is this: the US is the biggest, richest, economy in the world, backed by the strongest military muscle. Why should it be obliged to play along with the rules in place for other smaller, less powerful countries? The US should negotiate from its position of dominance, not from a position of equality & "fairness". This has been Trump's strategy throughout his career & he went into office intending to apply it to his presidency.

Whether this will turn out work to the advantage of the the people of the US in the long term is anybody's guess, but a lack of international mutual respect & cooperation is definitely damaging to the world as a whole & the kind of nationalist sentiments it encourages has, in the past, led to terrible consequences.
 
baldgye
I mean, the role of the press is to keep governments in check and keep people informed, and I guess it's the role of the people to keep the press in line. But there has been a serious breakdown, in part due to people only consuming news that confirms opinions they have. It's a vicious cycle which you see spill out here all the time.

I think it's the people's job to keep the press honest and fair and at the moment that just isn't happening and social media is only making it easier for people to keep their head buried in the confirmation bias sand (:lol:).
Click to expand...
The role of the "press", aka the mainstream media, indeed all media, is, first and foremost, to turn a profit. No profit, no exist. To make money they exercise their constitutional rights as they may be, to titillate, entertain and grab our attention for 30 seconds here and there so they can generate clicks, sell papers and generate income to stay afloat. The press is no different than any other business and the only way you'll ever get an impartial and completely honest press is if impartiality and honesty is more profitable than being biased and shilling for their own agenda. Those days, IMO, if they ever truly existed, are long gone.
 
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Biggles
What Trump believes about trade is this: the US is the biggest, richest, economy in the world, backed by the strongest military muscle. Why should it be obliged to play along with the rules in place for other smaller, less powerful countries? The US should negotiate from its position of dominance, not from a position of equality & "fairness". This has been Trump's strategy throughout his career & he went into office intending to apply it to his presidency.

Whether this will turn out work to the advantage of the the people of the US in the long term is anybody's guess, but a lack of international mutual respect & cooperation is definitely damaging to the world as a whole & the kind of nationalist sentiments it encourages has, in the past, led to terrible consequences.
Click to expand...

It'll turn out poorly. While he'd be correct that the US can bully any individual country, people figured out a long time ago how to deal with that sort of situation. That's what led to things like unions, military alliances and trade blocks, and that's exactly what Trump is going to run into problems with. Other countries will find it to their advantage to gang up against the US, just as the US has found to it's advantage in the past.

The international groups that the US is currently a part of to work against China and Russia can just as easily be used against the US also. Trump forgets that while the US maybe bigger that anyone else, it's not bigger than everyone else.
 
"People are suffering and dying" and he wants to resort to military action. Does Trump not know that military action pretty much ensures suffering and dying?

But I don't see how Congress would approve this, there's absolutely zero threat from Venezuela to the US or our allies. That is if Trump bothers to ask Congress for approval. It seems like par for the course though looking at recent history because why would a President need to follow the Constitution?
 
TenEightyOne
What does that have to do with Trump's former plan to invade Venezuela?
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Nothing in a respect. Something in another. Somewhere just voted some girl that ran on nothing but socialism bs.
Idiots. Look at Venezuela...
America is going to hell and quickly.
Thanks to the left and TDS...
 
ryzno
Nothing in a respect. Something in another. Somewhere just voted some girl that ran on nothing but socialism bs.
Idiots. Look at Venezuela...
America is going to hell and quickly.
Thanks to the left and TDS...
Click to expand...
How is the left running America when you have a right wing president who’s pissing of and upsetting every single ally America has had?
 
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