America - The Official Thread

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Pretty sure it's been "normalized" since before Trump's father's father's father's father was even born. I mean I'm sure at one point in some ancient past politicians had something resembling integrity, but that probably lasted all of 5 minutes.
It is just crazy from our european point of view. I understand the exceptance of cheating a bit more from you guys' explanation, but the accusation of assault the billy bush recording, the constant lying about trivial things that can easily be factchecked. It seems like he is warping the truth and reality to his willing.
 
You're saying that European politicians don't lie? Doesn't the EU include the UK, at least for the moment? And Greece, Italy and France?

Perhaps be wary of holding Europe up as the shining example of political honesty. I seriously doubt that it is.

It's his European view as I don't share it.
 
You're saying that European politicians don't lie? Doesn't the EU include the UK, at least for the moment? And Greece, Italy and France?

Perhaps be wary of holding Europe up as the shining example of political honesty. I seriously doubt that it is.

It's his European view as I don't share it.

@Imari quoted my comment out of context:

It is just crazy from our european point of view. I understand the exceptance of cheating a bit more from you guys' explanation, but the accusation of assault the billy bush recording, the constant lying about trivial things that can easily be factchecked. It seems like he is warping the truth and reality to his willing.

I said it was crazy he was lying about trivial things that can easily be factchecked (crowd size, no rain on inaugeration, cheating on his wife, Russian meddling, , winning popula vote, no relations with russia, global warming, Dems are at fault for caging children, Would/wouldnt etc.) . I never claimed that european politicians dont lie! Dont "selectively" quote like that. If you quote someone.. quote it accurately!
 
You make a very good point. It does same there is far more emotion in american politics then factual rational thought. I was just watching news of Trump being recorded talking about a payoff to a playboy model. The country just has double standards... if this was Obama he would already been forced to resign. The current President has had 2 confirmed affairs while married and even during a pregnancy. In most countries the president/prime minister would be forced to step down by its party.
So Billy Bob Clinton who had several affairs while in and out of the WH would not be permitted to live there if Hillary had won ? What kind of standard would you call that ?
 
@Imari
I said it was crazy he was lying about trivial things that can easily be factchecked

You're absolutely right. American Presidents have lied about all sorts of things in the past, but I don't remember any of them constantly lying about trivial matters. That is the personality of this President - he is an incorrigible narcissist, bizarrely obsessed about any possible, inconsequential slight to himself.

You're wrong about the significance of sexual infidelities though. In general, European politicians have been LESS concerned about this, as in most European countries this is not considered a disqualification for high office. In France, by tradition, a politician is EXPECTED to have a (official) mistress. What is "special" about Trump is that he drew so much of his support from conservative evangelicals. But, hey - they love nothing more than saving a "sinner", so it appears all good with them too.
 
Nope but Trump was a private citizen at the time while Billy Bob was in the WH. If Trump was humping everything that walked while the POTUS I would agree with you
What does that have to do with my comment? I was referring more to republicans being very accepting and ignoring his affairs as opposed to if it were Obama they would be screaming for impeachment (lawfull or not).
 
Here it is, folks, the real bottom line.

Trump Says Critics Badly Want War With Russia
Says they're pushing recklessly for a 'major confrontation'
Jason Ditz Posted on July 19, 2018Categories NewsTags Russia, Trump


In comments on Twitter early Thursday, President Trump faulted his critics, saying he believes they “badly want to see a major confrontation with Russia, even a confrontation that could lead to war.”

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Trump has been saying he wants better relations with Russia since the 2016 campaign, and has been facing heavy criticism for that position ever since. This week saw Trump’s first summit with Putin since the election.

That summit went well, but Trump was roundly castigated by much of the media as well as the overwhelming majority of US lawmakers. They were indeed demanding confrontations of Vladimir Putin and were extremely angry that the summit went well.

Trump believes this amounts to pushing “recklessly hard” for war, saying “they hate the fact that I’ll probably have a good relationship with Putin.” Though these critics generally aren’t advocating for war itself, they have been advocating for years for ever-worsening bilateral relations.

It is this hostility toward Russia that has driven bilateral ties to their worst point since the height of the Cold War, and has them resisting even the hint of detente. While they aren’t necessarily expecting this to lead to war, they are determined to see it not lead to peace.

President Trump is being increasingly vocal about his annoyance at this resistance to his diplomatic overtures, despite avoiding a war with Russia seemingly being an obvious part of long-term US strategic interests.

But as President Trump firmly positions himself against a disastrous war with Russia, it is likely to escalate the rhetoric coming out of his critics, making their anti-Russia stance yet more overt and more willing to counsel an unthinkable conflict.
https://news.antiwar.com/2018/07/19/trump-says-critics-badly-want-war-with-russia/

As a PNAC'er, neocon, and hawk, I would ardently want war with Russia. My cherished plan is to attack, invade, conquer and redistribute the best of Russia's provinces and resources to myself and my truest friends, Israel, Saudi Arabia, the UK and France. Are you with me or against me?

But as an antiwar libertarian, my plan is much different.
 
Here it is, folks, the real bottom line.



As a PNAC'er, neocon, and hawk, I would ardently want war with Russia. My cherished plan is to attack, invade, conquer and redistribute the best of Russia's provinces and resources to myself and my truest friends, Israel, Saudi Arabia, the UK and France. Are you with me or against me?

But as an antiwar libertarian, my plan is much different.

I understand diplomacy, but if your intelligence proves without a reasonable doubt they have meddled with your countries democratic election... You should hold the ones responsible accountable.... and while your at it the ones responsible for MH17 too! That doesnt mean that the critics want war... only justice!
 
I understand diplomacy, but if your intelligence proves without a reasonable doubt they have meddled with your countries democratic election... You should hold the ones responsible accountable.... and while your at it the ones responsible for MH17 too! That doesnt mean that the critics want war... only justice!
Do you know how many elections we've meddled in? The only proof they have is bots on FB, no changing votes, nothing. The left is hypocritical.
 
I understand diplomacy, but if your intelligence proves without a reasonable doubt they have meddled with your countries democratic election... You should hold the ones responsible accountable.... and while your at it the ones responsible for MH17 too! That doesnt mean that the critics want war... only justice!
Trump doesn't have the power to indict, that's another branch of government. You can do your best to hold those responsible accountable with your legal resources and attempt good relations, or at least open lines of communication, at the same time. This has been the strategy of the U.S. government for 80+ years vs. the Soviet Union/Russia.
 
I said it was crazy he was lying about trivial things that can easily be factchecked (crowd size, no rain on inaugeration, cheating on his wife, Russian meddling, , winning popula vote, no relations with russia, global warming, Dems are at fault for caging children, Would/wouldnt etc.) . I never claimed that european politicians dont lie! Dont "selectively" quote like that. If you quote someone.. quote it accurately!

Adding the rest of the quote changes nothing. I quoted as much as I needed to. Think of all the pixels I saved by not quoting that extra bit of your post.

You claimed that the idea of someone lying like Trump is crazy to Europeans. I didn't say anything about trivial or otherwise things, that your own interpretation of my post.

Does that mean that it doesn't happen in Europe, or that they're better at hiding it, or that you're just ignorant of it?

Or does it happen all the time and it makes Europeans crazy, is that what you're trying to say?
 
Trump doesn't have the power to indict, that's another branch of government. You can do your best to hold those responsible accountable with your legal resources and attempt good relations, or at least open lines of communication, at the same time. This has been the strategy of the U.S. government for 80+ years vs. the Soviet Union/Russia.

I did not speak of indictments or legal actions. Trump seemingly is not putting any effort into finding out the ones responsible. You apparantly not familiair with the cold war. How old are you might I ask?
 
I did not speak of indictments or legal actions. Trump seemingly is not putting any effort into finding out the ones responsible. You apparantly not familiair with the cold war. How old are you might I ask?
Old enough. You said, "hold the one's responsible accountable" Is that indictments or legal action? Trump doesn't investigate, he's the President. He has people for that. Do you have a link to establish that there is no ongoing investigation into Russian meddling in the election?
 
Adding the rest of the quote changes nothing. I quoted as much as I needed to. Think of all the pixels I saved by not quoting that extra bit of your post.

You claimed that the idea of someone lying like Trump is crazy to Europeans. I didn't say anything about trivial or otherwise things, that your own interpretation of my post.

Does that mean that it doesn't happen in Europe, or that they're better at hiding it, or that you're just ignorant of it?

Or does it happen all the time and it makes Europeans crazy, is that what you're trying to say?
What are you nuts?? Read the post again please... Or clear that vaseline out of you eyeballs. I didnt claim european politicians dont lie. I did claim no politician lies like Trump. (ease debunked when factchecked) You wont find a guy that lies like Trump in western european politics. Please stop spinning my post.

Old enough. You said, "hold the one's responsible accountable" Is that indictments or legal action? Trump doesn't investigate, he's the President. He has people for that. Do you have a link to establish that there is no ongoing investigation into Russian meddling in the election?

I am not saying he should investigate himself or did I? He is indeed the leader. mr Trump does have the power to ask and demand from Putin to deliver the ones responsible or negotiate that he deliver the indicted russians to the US or sanctions will be made. What is the punishment for sabotaging the democratic process in the US? Is that concidered treason?
 
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You said, "hold the one's responsible accountable" Is that indictments or legal action? Trump doesn't investigate, he's the President. He has people for that.
Yeeeeeaaah...



Well I would, because he's in charge of the country. Just like I consider myself to be responsible for things that happen in this country. So certainly as the leader of a country you would have to hold him responsible, yes.

Straight from the horse's mouth. He clearly states (and atypically so, I might add) that as president, Putin should be held responsible for what actors (and by that I mean those who perform actions--wouldn't want you misinterpreting and misrepresenting my words) in his country do, and he believes that he (Trump), as president, is responsible for holding him (Putin) responsible.
 
Pack it in.

Have you heard of Silvio Berlusconi? Or Tony Blair? Or the multiquote function?
They all Lie, but not on the level as trump. What I meant was that Trump would even lie about that it stopped raining, when it clearly did not in front of the press on national television!?!?

Edit: Made a wrong statement. corrected it!
 
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They all Lie, but not on the level as trump.
Tony Blair lied to take our country to war and kill hundreds of thousands of people - including our own troops.

As for Berlusconi... if you think Stormy and piss fetishism is bad, try having sex with a child and several court cases around bribery, corruption, surveillance...
 
They all Lie, but not on the level as trump. What I meant was that Trump would even lie about it not raining, when it clearly did in front of the press on national television!?!?
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It's certainly not my place to enforce this, but as a courtesy, I know I would appreciate it if edited content (particularly that which has been edited after the original content has been cited) was indicated as having been edited. A simple line break and preceding "Edit:" would certainly suffice.

It's about transparency, and that way individuals (even those with whom you disagree) aren't seen as having engaged in deceptive behavior.

Edit: Sure, it's indicated (if enough time has passed) that the content has been edited, but it doesn't detail to the average participant what edit(s) has/have taken place.
 
After occasionally posting in various topics trying to explain an european POV about political subjects I always end up trying to be put down by a probably right-wing american. I know this site is american, but it seems most american members active in these topics seem conservative or am i wrong in that assesment?
There's an equal number of us on this forum on both sides of the coin who dive deep into our respective base. American, non-American doesn't really matter; we're as loud as the other.

This "assessment" you've made only seems intended to claim there's double standards for the right (Trump has affairs; Obama would've resigned) when double standards has long been a part of our politics. Doesn't matter what party is in charge.
 
There's an equal number of us on this forum on both sides of the coin who dive deep into our respective base. American, non-American doesn't really matter; we're as loud as the other.

This "assessment" you've made only seems intended to claim there's double standards for the right (Trump has affairs; Obama would've resigned) when double standards has long been a part of our politics. Doesn't matter what party is in charge.
Well said. Had I seen that post I certainly would have objected to the assertion, particularly as I believe myself to not be represented in it.
 
It's certainly not my place to enforce this, but as a courtesy, I know I would appreciate it if edited content (particularly that which has been edited after the original content has been cited) was indicated as having been edited. A simple line break and preceding "Edit:" would certainly suffice.

It's about transparency, and that way individuals (even those with whom you disagree) aren't seen as having engaged in deceptive behavior.

Edit: Sure, it's indicated (if enough time has passed) that the content has been edited, but it doesn't detail to the average participant what edit(s) has/have taken place.
My apologies, but I am not familiair with proper forum ettiquette. Because the posts are sensitive I actually did add "edit" (as a courtesy), because I noticed I posted it too soon, without factchecking. English also is not my first language. Also it is normal for people with perhaps an opposite belief to be offended and be on the defensive.

There's an equal number of us on this forum on both sides of the coin who dive deep into our respective base. American, non-American doesn't really matter; we're as loud as the other.

This "assessment" you've made only seems intended to claim there's double standards for the right (Trump has affairs; Obama would've resigned) when double standards has long been a part of our politics. Doesn't matter what party is in charge.


As for my original statement I understand now that I may have provoked people with US conservative beliefs. Most of the time because a post of mine perhaps gets lost in translations or misinterperted.

But nonetheless I am intrigued by current events in the US and especially hope that the independant press will get their voice back. The biggest reason for my interest in Trump is the constant delegitamizing of the free press...Fox News being borderline propaganda etc. A free press is one of the cornerstones of a free democracy, which history always has shown to be.

All I can say is I have always been a student of history and what is happening now is all too familiar to the start of a totalitair/fascist regime.
 
Yeeeeeaaah...

Straight from the horse's mouth. He clearly states (and atypically so, I might add) that as president, Putin should be held responsible for what actors (and by that I mean those who perform actions--wouldn't want you misinterpreting and misrepresenting my words) in his country do, and he believes that he (Trump), as president, is responsible for holding him (Putin) responsible.
I'm not sure why you're directing that at me? You think that's somehow a counter to saying that the President has people that handle the legal stuff? Are those legal people now out of a job or does the investigation continue? AFAIK absolutely nothing has changed on that front. If it has please share it with us.

My apologies, but I am not familiair with proper forum ettiquette. Because the posts are sensitive I actually did add "edit" (as a courtesy), because I noticed I posted it too soon, without factchecking. English also is not my first language. Also it is normal for people with perhaps an opposite belief to be offended and be on the defensive.
You do yourself a disservice and handicap your own participation here if you think that people responding to you are either offended or on the defensive. It's a terrible perspective for approaching a discussion.

As for my original statement I understand now that I may have provoked people with US conservative beliefs. Most of the time because a post of mine perhaps gets lost in translations or misinterperted.
Engaging in discussion and countering your points is not being "provoked". See above. It's literally the reason we are here, to engage each other. If you post opinions expect them to be challenged.

But nonetheless I am intrigued by current events in the US and especially hope that the independant press will get their voice back. The biggest reason for my interest in Trump is the constant delegitamizing of the free press...Fox News being borderline propaganda etc. A free press is one of the cornerstones of a free democracy, which history always has shown to be.
Interesting you site Fox News as propoganda when the media over here is generally seen as leaning left, at least in my opinion. Fox nearly stands almost alone among the mainstream media in that regard. There is no such thing as an independent press.

All I can say is I have always been a student of history and what is happening now is all too familiar to the start of a totalitair/fascist regime.
Please give us some historical examples that are repeating themselves under the current President and explain how the democratic institutions in place that are designed to prevent that very thing happening are failing.
 
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