America - The Official Thread

[Joey D]

That's like the most stereotypical Texas picture I've seen in a long time. Please tell me the cowboy cop on the horse carries a chrome-plated six-shooter and tips his hat and says "ma'am" every time he passes a pretty girl on the streets.

 

[Wolfe]

I asked for a "sample" at the beginning, sans "attitude". I was and still am dubious of what you claimed*, and I demonstrated that with my "yeeeeaaahh...", but I think my solicitation was broadly respectful otherwise (not that I think that was disrespectful)...

The casual wording did not quite make it clear to me what you expected -- in a math-homework sense, "show your work" means to explain how you got your answer, not necessarily to provide a specific citation. I originally cited my experience there as a sort of credential for my perspective.

The suggestion alone--that someone simply accepts what "the media" says he says**--is what's laughable; the popular invocation of media as bogeyman. Being critical of any information offered to you¹ is indicative of shrewdness, but it so often comes off as being critical of any information you¹ don't like.

I don't like false or misleading information, or misdirection by omission. See the bottom of this post.

I'll absolutely grant you that it's pretty casual there, but it's hard for me to see anything more than racist generalizations.

They discuss disruptive targets not limited to race. They playfully refer to IRL action as "Minecraft". They'll critique a manifesto for lacking creativity or impact. They share memes and lulz.

In his manifesto, the El Paso shooter made reference to his "super soldier Call of Duty fantasy" for a reason: to incite another round of the violent videogame debate. It's a joke, and it has been taken at face value. Paranoia entertains them. It's unironic & ironic white supremacy, and it's also terrorism intended to incite terror. Is that somehow controversial to suggest? In all honesty, I took that to be a generally understood concept.

Wow I never realised racism was still this bad. Police leading a black man around like a literal slave.

Maybe the officers are racist, maybe not.

 

[huskeR32]

But seriously, as a Trump supporter, Biden is the only one that scares me. But they all raised their hands when asked about free healthcare for illegal aliens. That's not very popular at all. I am sure Trump will pound whoever the nominee is with that.

What are you basing this on? Gallup has it at 57% approval nationwide.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Maybe the officers are racist, maybe not.

It's hard to know why they didn't wait for the vehicle or why they chose to use a rope when the prisoner was already cuffed. Your photo of the police horse demonstration above doesn't shed much light, obviously the guy isn't being led on a rope and isn't in a place where being led on a rope by the local militia was a traditional precursor to being murdered.

The police chief has halted the practice, he says there are some scenarios where leading a prisoner in that way might be acceptable but that this was not one of them.

 

[Wolfe]

It's hard to know why they didn't wait for the vehicle or why they chose to use a rope when the prisoner was already cuffed.

Right. Maybe using a rope is the policy; I don't know. So is it racism, or poor optics? Racism is alive, but so are baseless accusations of racism. Neither is good, and we'll never defeat one with the other.

 

[TexRex]

The casual wording did not quite make it clear to me what you expected -- in a math-homework sense, "show your work" means to explain how you got your answer, not necessarily to provide a specific citation. I originally cited my experience there as a sort of credential for my perspective.

I mean...maybe the request was ambiguous; I can take that into consideration. However, when one is solicited to demonstrate an ability to perform long division, the most basic of expectations is that they use actual numbers rather than say, "I can do it, I sat through math lessons."

They discuss disruptive targets not limited to race. They playfully refer to IRL action as "Minecraft". They'll critique a manifesto for lacking creativity or impact. They share memes and lulz.

That's how they comport themselves--I've conceded that it's a pretty casual affair--but there are some steps between memes and massacre, and perpetrating said massacre as an extension of sharing memes and lulz.

In his manifesto, the El Paso shooter made reference to his "super soldier Call of Duty fantasy" for a reason: to incite another round of the violent videogame debate. It's a joke, and it has been taken at face value.

I'd appreciate it if you'd show your work here. What's the joke? How do you determine it's a joke and not as serious as him expressing a desire to carry out his "super soldier Call of Duty fantasy" to the fullest as he seems to have done?

If a hypothetical me expresses a desire to carry out a rape fantasy to the fullest by actually committing rape (which isn't to be confused with carrying out such a fantasy with a willing participant), the actual me would hope it isn't dismissed as a joke.

Paranoia entertains them. It's unironic & ironic white supremacy, and it's also terrorism intended to incite terror. Is that somehow controversial to suggest? In all honesty, I took that to be a generally understood concept.

I don't take issue with this assertion, but it's separate from the assertion cited above it and I've opted to respond to it separately.

It's hard to know why they didn't wait for the vehicle or why they chose to use a rope when the prisoner was already cuffed. Your photo of the police horse demonstration above doesn't shed much light, obviously the guy isn't being led on a rope and isn't in a place where being led on a rope by the local militia was a traditional precursor to being murdered.

It's a stereotypically Texas take on the basic perp walk; it's not actually necessary, but it's probably deemed so to make a point. And he does appear to be...erm..."wrangled" in the picture; if you look closely at his wrists you may make out a blue tether attached to itself.

Of course that isn't to dismiss concerns over the practice, and I have my own. There appears to be, at best, failure to consider the connotations (such as what you highlighted) of the practice in the most recent instance. And while I don't know the particulars in this instance, I'm aware of other instances where the walk is brief--a city block, perhaps--and the perpetrator is transported by vehicle to within sight of the jail facility entrance...as are the horses.

 

[Dotini]

Sorry, not a GIF

 

[Wolfe]

What's the joke? How do you determine it's a joke and not as serious as him expressing a desire to carry out his "super soldier Call of Duty fantasy" to the fullest as he seems to have done?

Call of Duty is a meme (language and content warning). I figured it was taken for granted that killing people is serious. It's extra-black humor.

Rewinding a bit...

As for my "vibe"; it's not my default setting, but it tends to come out when I feel someone is being deceptive. Dangling citations rather than providing them on the front end reeks of deception.

You are tilting at a windmill, and it is unproductive.

 

[Swagger897]

I guess we need a psychiatric ward then for any severe case of road-rage that can be definitively boiled down to being caused by racing/driving games then too...

 

[Chrunch Houston]

What are you basing this on? Gallup has it at 57% approval nationwide.

I don't know why you have to lie.

But seriously, as a Trump supporter, Biden is the only one that scares me. But they all raised their hands when asked about free healthcare for illegal aliens. That's not very popular at all. I am sure Trump will pound whoever the nominee is with that.

Please read more carefully.

 

[huskeR32]

I don't know why you have to lie.

Please read more carefully.

Well, which was it? Did I lie? Or did I misread? Make up your mind.

(It was the latter, and my apologies for that.)

 

[Swagger897]

How can you not see it? You posted something with results from that of US citizens when the topic was of anything but.

 

[TexRex]

Call of Duty is a meme (language and content warning).

It's a game. The link you've provided says as much. The link you've provided says other things, but after a shallow dive, I didn't see anything that seemed to explain "super soldier Call of Duty fantasy" is a joke.

I feel as though you're intentionally being vague. If you're going to provide citations, please cite specific texts within those citations and clarify what you're providing them in support of.

I figured it was taken for granted that killing people is serious.

This seems like a strawman. I'm not belaboring the notion that killing people is serious and so there's no need to poke at said nonexistent argument. What you have yet to explain is how "super soldier Call of Duty fantasy" is intended as a joke, however dark or humorous.

It's extra-black humor.

You're still peddling absolutes and not substantiating them, and it's not a good look.

It seems to me you're not holding yourself to the standards you've set for others by continuing to hint at a connection between your statements regarding his motives but not actually providing a basis for those statements; misdirection by omission.

I feel as though I'm being jerked around, baited and/or trolled, and I don't appreciate it.

Rewinding a bit...
You are tilting at a windmill, and it is unproductive.

See above.

Aaaaand that's my limit. If you'd like to make an actual attempt to provide the sort of explanation I've been seeking since my first response to you on the subject, and do so providing direct citation(s), I'm more than willing to give it every bit of the consideration it deserves, even as though it's a response to my initial solicitation prior to the runaround. Short of that, don't expect me to continue this conversation with you.

 

[huskeR32]

How can you not see it? You posted something with results from that of US citizens when the topic was of anything but.

How can I not see what? I asked him if he thought I was lying, or if he thought I misread his post. It wouldn’t make sense for it to be both.

Yes, I posted something that missed the mark (though you’re exaggerating how far off topic it was) due to misreading his post (which I already acknowledged and apologized for; what else would you have me do, Sir?). Misreading does not equal lying, unless I continued sticking to my statement after being corrected, which I didn’t do.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Normal humanity being represented by the guy in the green shirt:

 

[TexRex]

Normal humanity being represented by the guy in the green shirt:

Edit: Having since viewed it with sound, I'm compelled to note that someone being a jackass is not in violation of being a jackass. They may be in violation of something, but not that.

 

[Wolfe]

This seems like a strawman. I'm not belaboring the notion that killing people is serious and so there's no need to poke at said nonexistent argument.

Your strawman, not mine. You posed an unnecessary either/or: "How do you determine it's...not as serious as him expressing a desire to carry out his 'super soldier Call of Duty fantasy' to the fullest as he seems to have done?"

I feel as though I'm being jerked around, baited and/or trolled, and I don't appreciate it.

Likewise. If so, kudos to you for your technique. You're not bad at it.

It is not my fault that you chose to read an educated interpretation of the killer's intent -- informed by a background you are evidently wholly unfamiliar with -- as a suggestion that I hold some kind of evidence I haven't shared for some reason. All I wanted was to help frame the killer's actions in a more accurate context. How that could be construed as bait or trolling is beyond my comprehension.

I am not lying or misleading you by omission. Your insinuation of hypocrisy rests on your imagination of what I am not disclosing. You are demanding hard, direct citations for in-references and culture. You might as well demand dictionary definitions for every word of a foreign-language paragraph I offered to translate. Possible, but disrespectfully pedantic. Also labor-intensive in this case.

If you still can't connect the dots without more hyperlinks because you aren't familiar enough with below-surface internet culture -- disbelieving that Call of Duty's status as a super-popular icon of gaming stereotypes and clichés makes it an identifiable dog-whistle to internet subculture in a murder manifesto -- that is not really my problem, bucko.

 

[TexRex]

Swing and a miss.

 

[Swagger897]

If you still can't...

...provide the credible sources to backup your claims...

 

[Wolfe]

...provide the credible sources to backup your claims...

Bazinga! Got 'em!

If you can't ask nicely and you are not a moderator, you are not owed credible sources for just anything you claim not to understand. I am not here for unproductive bull**** O&CE subforum chest-puffing. If he had asked for clarification respectfully, like several of the "heavyweights" here are willing and able to do, we wouldn't be several posts down this hole of inter-personal meaninglessness.

Let's put it this way. It seems to me @TexRex is convinced I'm hiding something that makes him very suspicious. I became convinced he was stringing me along to try to get me to say something that would confirm his suspicions. Not a good ground for conversation.

I have peered into 8chan, and my claims are based principally on what you can find there (which constantly rotates and eventually disappears because it's an imageboard, I should note). If you don't believe me, there's no better source than to go look for yourself -- if or when it comes back, or if you trawl for screenshots. I've given about all I can give.

 

[PocketZeven]

So in your opinion who is to blame?

 

[Dennisch]

So in your opinion who is to blame?

Greedy corporations.

 

[Wolfe]

Greedy corporations.

Not even necessarily greedy. Just so, so irresponsible, and clutching onto their relevance and clout in this post-YouTube world of new media, and democratized crowdfunding & e-commerce.

I imagine outrage isn't extravagantly profitable, but it has become a really, really low-hanging fruit.

 

[Blitz24]

I imagine outrage isn't extravagantly profitable, but it has become a really, really low-hanging fruit.

Is it low hanging if it's being dragged on the ground?

 

[Swagger897]

Bazinga! Got 'em!

If you can't ask nicely and you are not a moderator, you are not owed credible sources for just anything you claim not to understand. I am not here for unproductive bull**** O&CE subforum chest-puffing. If he had asked for clarification respectfully, like several of the "heavyweights" here are willing and able to do, we wouldn't be several posts down this hole of inter-personal meaninglessness.

Let's put it this way. It seems to me @TexRex is convinced I'm hiding something that makes him very suspicious. I became convinced he was stringing me along to try to get me to say something that would confirm his suspicions. Not a good ground for conversation.

I have peered into 8chan, and my claims are based principally on what you can find there (which constantly rotates and eventually disappears because it's an imageboard, I should note). If you don't believe me, there's no better source than to go look for yourself -- if or when it comes back, or if you trawl for screenshots. I've given about all I can give.

Wow... I don't think I've met anyone who has had the point shoot over their head so high like I have just now. That quote was for you my friend.

You've done nothing but sensationalized a collective of information and kept it to yourself preventing anyone here from forming their own opinions of it and determining its merit. That's no different than saying "I have half the world's wealth stored under my mattress and photos to prove it but I refuse to share the photos."

But no, continue to base your string theory of how 8-9-10chan and others of the like are credible sources which can be targeted as enabling/etc without actually supporting your theory with the evidence.

 

[Wolfe]

But no, continue to base your string theory of how 8-9-10chan and others of the like are credible sources which can be targeted as enabling/etc without actually supporting your theory with the evidence.

Credible for what? It's a den of lies, false-flagging, and misdirection. That's the whole point. It is unwise to take the manifesto at face value, or what is written on 8chan (source in another post, bottom quote box). Even if the killer professed white supremacist ideas and targeted people of Mexican ethnicity (no dispute), I'm saying it is more than likely that his crime was also an anarchist terrorist act with the intention to stoke racial and political divisions, even at the "expense" of white ethnopolitics. And to create material out of the politico-media response for 8chan's consumption. (source - Christchurch, NSFW, content, language, etc.)

With that said, doubling down on racial and political divisions by pointing fingers or spreading fear and paranoia is exactly what 8chan wants people to do (source here; plus some of the content in the last source). So can we not?

Targeted as enabling what? I can't guess what you mean.

Please bear with me. I can't provide a citation for a point I haven't been trying to make, and I don't think you or Tex have correctly understood what I am bringing to the table.

 

[DDastardly00]

A quick disclaimer,

I am knowingly and unabashedly disrupting the daily political banter to bring you another slice of America, the beautiful Oregon Coast, well at least part of it. That stretch of coastline all the way into Northern California is consider by many travel experts to be one of the most beautiful in the world.

I'm back from the Oregon Coast, the land of unmistakeably beautiful coastline views and fabulous independent craft breweries.

I started with a quick stop in Astoria at Fort George Brewery to pick up beer for the trip. I bought Optimist IPA on the way down and 3-Way IPA- Cashmere on the way back, both are astoundingly good but the 3-Way might be the single best beer I've ever had in my life, yes it is that delicious. Their Crysknife IPA is another favorite of mine and I highly recommend it.

I didn't get chance to stop by Buoy Brewing Company but I did try a Pint of their Red Ale on draft while I was having dinner at Mo's Chowder House and it was very good.
If you chance to have lunch at the Brewery then you will be treated to a glass floor view of Sea Lions playing underneath the brewery

Further on down the Coast is Seaside, OR, which is home to the statue of Lewis and Clark commemorating the journey.

Technically the trail ended at Fort Clatsop, which is a large tourism destination in it's own right and worth a stop if you have the time.

“Ocian in view! O! the joy!” wrote Capt. William Clark as he stood at the Columbia River Estuary up north. The expedition ultimately settled on the south side of the Columbia in December of 1805 (15 miles north of Seaside in present day Astoria).

Seaside is home to wonderful hiking trails and white sand beaches with pristine pacific ocean views.

Seaside Brewery offers an interesting selection of Ales, I had the Space Pants Ale which was quite good, their pulled pork (no sauce, just Rub) was also good. I also visited The Wine and Beer Haus while I was there and they had the most incredible selection of Revision Brewing Company (Reno, Nevada) beers that I've ever seen in a 3rd party store. I bought Elevation Calculation while I was there and it is one of the best hazy IPA's that I've ever had the pleasure to drink, plus several other goodies, like Good Life brewing Co's Comatose IPA, and Crux's Half-Hitch IPA, and Worthy's Imperial Double IPA.. Definitely would recommend this store, the owner was cool too.

Lastly I went to Pelican Brewing co in Cannon Beach, I don't have any pics but I bought their Cream Stout and their Hazy Rock IPA, both are good.

If you are down that way, There are many light houses you can visit. All of them have simply incredible views, forget your phone and bring your 'good' camera. Here is the one at Cape Meares:

Hope you enjoyed this little detour, now you may resume your political arguments

 

[Chrunch Houston]

Meanwhile at the Democratic Socialist Convention...

Is it just me or are these guys people a little too soft to be revolutionaries?

I don't remember hearing about Che Guevara's quiet rooms.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Meanwhile at the Democratic Socialist Convention...

Is it just me or are these guys people a little too soft to be revolutionaries?

I don't remember hearing about Che Guevara's quiet rooms.

Well...that's interesting

We don't want to put people in stressful situations...such as being in a room with someone wearing an aggressive scent?

 

[mustafur]

Meanwhile at the Democratic Socialist Convention...

Is it just me or are these guys people a little too soft to be revolutionaries?

I don't remember hearing about Che Guevara's quiet rooms.

He wasn't exactly into the Democratic part though was he.