America - The Official Thread

  • Thread starter ///M-Spec
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I'm amazed, yet not surprised someone in the administration allowed this. Woodward was 1 of the 2 men responsible for bringing Watergate to light & they let Trump speak to him 18 times & recorded all of it. I'm curious what else was said beyond the recent topic of Trump admitting he knew how deadly Covid was & decided to downplay it.
 
It's only one guy but obviously, you only have to mention the T word for a story to blow up.

Being nominated for a peace prize for simply not starting a war says more about the award and its asterisks (like Obama and Aung Suu Kyi), and the esteem and expectation that the office of President of President of the United States.

The bar is so low for "peace" that even a proton couldn't limbo under it.
 
Joey D
We were very much on the verge of war with Iran at the start of the year, especially after they fired several rockets at one of our bases. I firmly believe someone talked some sense into Trump that day to not return fire, if he had, there would've been a very brief war until COVID took over.
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This particular episode proves my point. Trump signed off on a targeted assassination in Baghdad, Iran responded with IRBMs to a nearby US base, and Trump was imperturbable. If he needed a casus belli, there it was. Nothing came of it but a few more sanctions on Iran.

No, Danoff, whatever faults great or small Trump has - and they are many - he is not a warmonger. If he had tried to start a war, Biden would be reading about it to us from a teleprompter by now. Trump has kept this one campaign promise. Above all questions of ideology and policy, I value the deliverables of peace, prosperity and keeping promises most highly. This is what will determine my vote in November.
 
Liquid
I disagree. The order of events gives Iran causus belli.
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Disagreement is fine. I remember when Gerald V Bull was assassinated in Brussels. Would you agree this gave Canada cause to go to war with Israel?
 
Dotini
This particular episode proves my point. Trump signed off on a targeted assassination in Baghdad, Iran responded with IRBMs to a nearby US base, and Trump was imperturbable. If he needed a casus belli, there it was. Nothing came of it but a few more sanctions on Iran.

No, Danoff, whatever faults great or small Trump has - and they are many - he is not a warmonger. If he had tried to start a war, Biden would be reading about it to us from a teleprompter by now. Trump has kept this one campaign promise. Above all questions of ideology and policy, I value the deliverables of peace, prosperity and keeping promises most highly. This is what will determine my vote in November.
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:lol:

He didn't just bring us to the brink of multiple wars. He brought us to the brink of a nuclear war. Feel free to rationalize as you like.
 
Danoff
:lol:

He didn't just bring us to the brink of multiple wars. He brought us to the brink of a nuclear war. Feel free to rationalize as you like.
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Of all sad words ever penned, the saddest are these -"it might've been".
-John Greenleaf Whittier​

The happiest words are, "I told you so".
-Gore Vidal​
 
Dotini
Of all sad words ever penned, the saddest are these -"it might've been".
-John Greenleaf Whittier​

The happiest words are, "I told you so".
-Gore Vidal​
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No idea what you're trying to say here. Do you remember the relationship the US had with China prior to Trump? Actually, pretty much with any country on the planet. What's that relationship now? Yes, keep telling yourself that the guy who threatens and provokes basically every country on the planet loves peace.
 
Danoff
No idea what you're trying to say here. Do you remember the relationship the US had with China prior to Trump? Actually, pretty much with any country on the planet. What's that relationship now? Yes, keep telling yourself that the guy who threatens and provokes basically every country on the planet loves peace.
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That's another promise that Trump made: "America First".
Nationalist populism won him the election. That formula was so successful, Biden may copying it.

A7BOVDU43ZHUJL7FP22LHQC4HY.jpg

Democratic presidential candidate former Vice President Joe Biden listens during a campaign event with steelworkers in the backyard of a home in Detroit, Wednesday, Sept. 9, 2020. (AP Photo/Patrick Semansky)AP

Biden is a known and proven Warhawk.
Trump is a Peacenik by comparison, no question at all.

So on my scorecard of Peace, Prosperity and Promise-keeping, so far that's +1 for Trump.

But if I'm convinced Biden is better for Prosperity and Promise-keeping, that's a net of +1 for Biden. So in that case I would vote for him.
 
Dotini
Biden is a known and proven Warhawk.
Trump is a Peacenik by comparison, no question at all.

So on my scorecard of Peace, Prosperity and Promise-keeping, so far that's +1 for Trump.

But if I'm convinced Biden is better for Prosperity and Promise-keeping, that's a net of +1 for Biden. So in that case I would vote for him.
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Nah, we already went down this road last time with assuming Hillary was the war-driven politician, so we needed to vote Trump.

As now obvious, all he's done is provoke a war in our own nation between our own citizens.
 
Dotini
That's another promise that Trump made: "America First".
Nationalist populism won him the election. That formula was so successful, Biden may copying it.

A7BOVDU43ZHUJL7FP22LHQC4HY.jpg
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Trump did not invent buy american.

Dotini
Biden is a known and proven Warhawk.
Trump is a Peacenik by comparison, no question at all.
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youre-wrong-believe-5b7e4f.jpg



Dotini
So on my scorecard of Peace, Prosperity and Promise-keeping, so far that's +1 for Trump.
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Peace? No. Prosperity? No. Promise-keeping? Definitely not. So... no then.

Dotini
But if I'm convinced Biden is better for Prosperity and Promise-keeping, that's a net of +1 for Biden. So in that case I would vote for him.
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I think Washington is settled.
 
Dotini
So on my scorecard of Peace, Prosperity and Promise-keeping, so far that's +1 for Trump.
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So far the tally on that is -50 for Trump

Loathed as i am to give him any kind of credit, but to give him his dues, i don't believe Trump is a warmonger at all. I think he believes the military is over-funded and over-used, especially in regions of the globe where he doesn't think America has any place in being. Whether that's down to the cost of human lives or economic spending in an area he doesn't personally have his fingers in the pie for, the jury is out. His words about servicemen who die in these conflicts being idiots, tasteless as they are, are more about his own views on the wisdom of signing up for the military in the first place.
 
TheCracker
i don't believe Trump is a warmonger at all
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"North Korea best not make any more threats to the United States,” Mr. Trump told reporters at his golf club in Bedminster, N.J., where he is spending much of the month on a working vacation. “They will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen.”

Peacenik.

"If you're weak and don't dominate your streets, they're going to stay with you until you finally do it," Mr. Trump said. "And you don't want it. Philadelphia, you'd better toughen up. Because what's going on in Philadelphia, like New York, is terrible. It's terrible. You'd better toughen — they'll never leave. I know you want to say, 'Oh, let's not call up the Guard, let's call up 200 people.' You've got a big National Guard out there that's ready to come in and fight like hell. I tell ya, the best, what they did in Minneapolis was incredible."

Dominate!
 
Danoff
"If you're weak and don't dominate your streets, they're going to stay with you until you finally do it," Mr. Trump said. "And you don't want it. Philadelphia, you'd better toughen up. Because what's going on in Philadelphia, like New York, is terrible. It's terrible. You'd better toughen — they'll never leave. I know you want to say, 'Oh, let's not call up the Guard, let's call up 200 people.' You've got a big National Guard out there that's ready to come in and fight like hell. I tell ya, the best, what they did in Minneapolis was incredible."
Dominate!
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Well, it was Dotini who used the term peacenik in the same sentence as Trump, not me. :)

I'm not saying he's not aggressive and a bully. Points that he clearly is. But i don't believe he really wants US servicemen involved in conflicts overseas if he can help it. Bombing places overseas appears to be okay with him, as does potentially using the military on home soil against those members of the voting public who are not all that fond of him.
 
TheCracker
Well, it was Dotini who used the term peacenik in the same sentence as Trump, not me. :)
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I know. It seemed appropriate though.

TheCracker
I'm not saying he's not aggressive and a bully. Points that he clearly is. But i don't believe he really wants US servicemen involved in conflicts overseas if he can help it. Bombing places overseas appears to be okay with him, as does potentially using the military on home soil against those members of the voting public who are not all that fond of him.
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I'm not sure actual soldiers are required for war. Trump antagonized North Korea to the edge of what appeared to be nuclear war. Not much in the way of personnel would be involved. Probably some in a few submarines and aircraft carriers, but not exactly troops on the ground.

If by "warmonger" you mean invade with boots on the ground, maybe that's not Trump (at least not in foreign wars). But I think that misses the broader point, which is that he's not a peaceful president. And he has brought the US much much closer to war with China (a real threat) than we were at the start of his term. If there is a peace meter with China, Trump has done nothing but shove it toward war.
 
Trump campaigned and won on Peace and Prosperity, America First and nationalist populism. OBVIOUSLY he was not even remotely qualified to President. Yet he was elected. Neoliberal Democrats - those still in office - will have taken note of that, and will run (nationally) if not govern along similar lines. If they do, they will win, IMHO. Yet even the neoliberal is an endangered species, constantly under threat of being primary'd by progressives.
 
Danoff
I'm not sure actual soldiers are required for war. Trump antagonized North Korea to the edge of what appeared to be nuclear war. Not much in the way of personnel would be involved. Probably some in a few submarines and aircraft carriers, but not exactly troops on the ground.
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I'm sure the 28,500 US troops and personnel based just 60 miles south of the North Korean border wouldn't fancy being collateral damage in such a conflict.
 
Wow I'm just catching up to the latest news.

I cannot believe how people are still letting themselves be conned by the Don. HE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT YOU
 
TheCracker
So far the tally on that is -50 for Trump

Loathed as i am to give him any kind of credit, but to give him his dues, i don't believe Trump is a warmonger at all. I think he believes the military is over-funded and over-used, especially in regions of the globe where he doesn't think America has any place in being. Whether that's down to the cost of human lives or economic spending in an area he doesn't personally have his fingers in the pie for, the jury is out. His words about servicemen who die in these conflicts being idiots, tasteless as they are, are more about his own views on the wisdom of signing up for the military in the first place.
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But he's the one in charge of the funding!! He keeps asking for increase after increase to the military budgets year after year.
 
UKMikey
How is the Doomsday Clock looking now that Trump is in charge?
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...I had to check up on it for my job yesterday (don't ask) so I know this one. It's gotten progressively closer to midnight, and currently it's only forty seconds to the end of humanity as we all know it. :ill:
 
JKgo
...I had to check up on it for my job yesterday (don't ask) so I know this one. It's gotten progressively closer to midnight, and currently it's only forty seconds to the end of humanity as we all know it. :ill:
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I think it's only one minute and forty seconds but the Bulletin Of The Atomic Scientists hasn't been very complimentary about Trump's efforts to bring about world peace.
 
UKMikey
I think it's only one minute and forty seconds but the Bulletin Of The Atomic Scientists hasn't been very complimentary about Trump's efforts to bring about world peace.
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...Crap, I made a mistake yesterday, then. :boggled:
 

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