America - The Official Thread

[Joey D]

See the problem is these lunatics Online have become indoctrinated with an ideology designed to destroy America, manufactured by America’s enemies make no mistake marxists/anarchists/libertarians, all these end up with the same endgame. They are no different.

I don't think you understand libertarianism if that's what you think.

 

[Scaff]

Play the ball
Are you high?

It’s a question not a statement, and given the wildly odd, inaccurate and rambling tirade you engaged in, a rather valid one!

Oh, and no.

 

[DesertPenguin]

I don't think you understand libertarianism if that's what you think.

I don't think he understands a lot of things

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

I don't think you understand libertarianism if that's what you think.

I think that's part of the "right-wing" propaganda - if you're not with us, you're against us.

 

[Dotini]

@Danoff already went over the "play the ball" response with @Dotini. Do we really have to make him do it all over again for you too?

Yes, you do. He hasn't convinced Dotini, and he has no authority to dictate his opinion to others.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Yes, you do. He hasn't convinced Dotini, and he has no authority to dictate his opinion to others.

So we're doing the third person narrative today? Good to know 👍

 

[Groundfish]

I don't think you understand libertarianism if that's what you think.

I understand that it’s philosophical basis is closely tied to a crummy hack writer of fiction who lacked the intellectual capacity to comprehend real philosophy like Immanuel Kant.

 

[Joey D]

I think that's part of the "right-wing" propaganda - if you're not with us, you're against us.

I agree. It's weird though that the far-right somehow think libertarian thinking is "leftist" when it's very much on the right with many of its views. The only "left" part of it is when it comes to social things, and even then it doesn't say we should allow things like same-sex marriage. Only that the government shouldn't be involved in it. There are plenty of libertarians I know who are against most socially liberal ideas, yet still support getting the government out of it.

 

[Joey D]

I understand that it’s philosophical basis is closely tied to a crummy hack writer of fiction who lacked the intellectual capacity to comprehend real philosophy like Immanuel Kant.
View attachment 957267 View attachment 957268

Libertarianism was around long before Ayn Rand. At its core, libertarianism revolves around personal freedoms as long as you don't infringe on the rights of others. Basically the government should stay the hell out of my life unless rights are being violated. It's a pretty simple concept, even though I will fully agree that it's difficult to achieve.

This is the complete opposite of Marxism, which is weird you'd lump it in with that.

 

[McLaren]

Haa!

Read that a few times to yourself and remember who said it. Ok?

Only if you remember Trump hasn't done anything to make relations with NK better, if not, make things worse.

Shoot here they’ll tell ya it IS in there!
SUBCONCIOUSLY!
See how their irrational crazymaker by design position works lol?
“You’re wrong”
“No”
“You can’t see it because it’s subconscious-
I do though You’re stupid the end”
See the problem is these lunatics Online have become indoctrinated with an ideology designed to destroy America, manufactured by America’s enemies make no mistake marxists/anarchists/libertarians, all these end up with the same endgame. They are no different.
All these and more have been being seeded into America ever since ww2.
Luckily you have patriots and good citizens which outnumber the lunatics.
Online it seems like there’s a lot more lunacy then there really is.

If I look around, in real life the leftist/Marxist and also the Lib/anarchist are not people who factor into the evonomy much, or make up a majority of any type.
Most folks are far more center more moderate irl. Especially those who are self sufficient. At least that’s what I see.
The biggest problem with America today is we allowed bad ideology into the education system far too long and now there’s been created a young generation of indoctrinated unproductive people who place more value on Twitter and Facebook then getting out of their parents house and contributing to society.
They’ve been indoctrinated with the fallacious irrational “sjw woke etc” ideologies which are nefarious.
These are evil ideologies people push which are designed to splinter society.

Sorry to interrupt the “how to destroy and how much do we hate America” section.

Look, it's more ironic right-wing ideology back for another episode of of fear-mongering.

 

[Groundfish]

Libertarianism is the philosophy that we should return to a state of living like savages.
It’s the ideology designed to try to suck votes from republicans .
So whatcha got? Whatcha got? You got a vote for a Lib turning out wasted so in effect it’s a vote for some sjw leftist.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

I agree. It's weird though that the far-right somehow think libertarian thinking is "leftist" when it's very much on the right with many of its views.

Yes, weird. But that's politics in a nutshell for the 2020 election unfortunately.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Libertarianism is the philosophy that we should return to a state of living like savages.
It’s the ideology designed to try to suck votes from republicans .
So whatcha got? Whatcha got? You got a vote for a Lib turning out wasted so in effect it’s a vote for some sjw leftist.

At this point your trolling is getting more and more obvious. At least @ryzno has shown some signs of humanity.

 

[Danoff]

I understand the concept of what you are saying, but would still like to look at the numbers

I'll look into it. What I posted previously is an economist describing the rigid economies of the south falling behind due to reliance on slavery. I'll see what I can come up with that's better. In terms of "numbers" I think you'll appreciate that it only played out one way, so we do not have alternative numbers in the same environment. What we have is economic theory and differences between slave and non-slave states.

 

[Joey D]

Libertarianism is the philosophy that we should return to a state of living like savages.
It’s the ideology designed to try to suck votes from republicans .
So whatcha got? Whatcha got? You got a vote for a Lib turning out wasted so in effect it’s a vote for some sjw leftist.

That's not what libertarianism is, not even close. It's the idea that you should have personal freedoms as long as they don't violate the rights of others. I'm not sure where you concocted your idea of libertarianism, but it's not correct.

And yes, I vote Libertarian and will be voting for Jorgensen in November. Not it's not a wasted for, nor is it a vote for some social justice warrior either. No vote is ever actually wasted either. People have their reasons for voting the way they do and since this is America, we're free to vote (or not vote) how we see fit. With that said, it'd be a cold day in hell before I vote for a Republican or Democrat.

 

[GranTurNismo]

Shoot here they’ll tell ya it IS in there!
SUBCONCIOUSLY!
See how their irrational crazymaker by design position works lol?
“You’re wrong”
“No”
“You can’t see it because it’s subconscious-
I do though You’re stupid the end”
See the problem is these lunatics Online have become indoctrinated with an ideology designed to destroy America, manufactured by America’s enemies make no mistake marxists/anarchists/libertarians, all these end up with the same endgame. They are no different.
All these and more have been being seeded into America ever since ww2.
Luckily you have patriots and good citizens which outnumber the lunatics.
Online it seems like there’s a lot more lunacy then there really is.

If I look around, in real life the leftist/Marxist and also the Lib/anarchist are not people who factor into the evonomy much, or make up a majority of any type.
Most folks are far more center more moderate irl. Especially those who are self sufficient. At least that’s what I see.
The biggest problem with America today is we allowed bad ideology into the education system far too long and now there’s been created a young generation of indoctrinated unproductive people who place more value on Twitter and Facebook then getting out of their parents house and contributing to society.
They’ve been indoctrinated with the fallacious irrational “sjw woke etc” ideologies which are nefarious.
These are evil ideologies people push which are designed to splinter society.

Sorry to interrupt the “how to destroy and how much do we hate America” section.

Honest question, have you ever actually met a leftist? Based on your posts in this thread, it seems clear that you haven't, and you shape your opinion on them based on a few isolated cases of rioting and arson (some of which aren't even done by leftists) and whatever right-wing Facebook has to say about them.

I identify as a leftist/progressive, and I think that left policies are the way to solve the nation's problems, whether they be economic, social, racial, etc. I don't hate my country, nor do I think America as we know it should be destroyed. I think you even know it's a strawman to claim that leftists support the policies they do simply because they hate America. Do you really think that the 70% of Americans who support the BLM cause and 50-55% who support Medicare for All hate their country and want it destroyed?

Here's a quote that you, and the right as a whole quite honestly, should get into your system:

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism"- Thomas Jefferson.

In essence, if you love your country, you would also call out it's flaws and work to fix it, rather than turning a blind eye to its faults, dismissing all criticism as "America-hating". Criticism and disagreement with America's institutions was seen by the founding fathers as healthy for the democratic process, and way that a government that doesn't represent our needs (whether it be authoritarian, oligarchic, or now more than ever, a corporatocracy) could be avoided. This is what separates patriotism from nationalism.

You also claim that leftists are "not contributing to the economy". How would you even know that? Could such an assertion even be quantified? I'll give you this though; if there's any group of Americans that are the most favorable of leftist causes, it's the poor, working-class, and lower middle-class, especially those that are BIPOC, because these are the Americans least represented by our current government and most disenfranchised by the corrupt system we have now. "Left" policies like universal healthcare, universal basic income, tuition-free public college, increased regulations in favor of workers' rights, or even just investment into the nation's most disenfranchised communities, are often a direct solution to their woes, and provide them a path to economic mobility.

I take it you've been out of school for a great deal of time, as most of the right-wingers who claim that public schools are "indoctrinating our kids with leftist America-hating propaganda" are. As someone who's still in high school, I want to clarify that this claim couldn't be farther from the truth. If anything, teachers encourage their students to think for themselves and form their own opinions about the world, rather than teach students that one ideology is great while the other is evil. Also, the history textbooks are written in a mostly American-exceptionalist point of view. The problem with history classes is they focus too much on America's accomplishments and barely touch upon the evils of slavery, genocide of Native Americans, internment camps, or our disastrous imperialistic foreign policy of the 20th and 21st century, not the other way around. If anything, it should be a balance of the two; teach about America's accomplishments while also make students aware of the darker elements of our history, not one or the other.

Finally, I'll add this. "Libertarianism" (although most leftists are libertarian, including myself) is not an inherently leftist ideology, and there are many right-leaning people who are libertarian. Joey D and Danoff for example, two of the most libertarian members on the site, also happen to be some of the most right-wing members on the site too.

 

[McLaren]

Libertarianism is the philosophy that we should return to a state of living like savages.
It’s the ideology designed to try to suck votes from republicans .
So whatcha got? Whatcha got? You got a vote for a Lib turning out wasted so in effect it’s a vote for some sjw leftist.

That wouldn't happen to be sucking votes from the current Republican President & his supporter base that seems to want a return of, "my Leader demands law and order. My Leader does no wrong. Only my Leader can keep the peace. My Leader who believes asking for equality & anti-racism means destroying all our great Leader does for the rest of us" ideology, would it?

 

[Tornado]

Oh boy more dank memes posted as if they are actually able to make a point.

 

[UKMikey]

Oh boy more dank memes posted as if they are actually able to make a point.

I'm not entirely sure attempting to educate actual libertarians on what their own philosophy means is the wisest of courses but that's what he does with everyone else from the looks of things.

It must be embarrassing getting schooled by a high school student.

 

[McLaren]

To his credit, @GranTurNismo speaks above his age in this section. Wouldn't have figured he was in high school.

 

[DesertPenguin]

To his credit, @GranTurNismo speaks above his age in this section. Wouldn't have figured he was in high school.

There's some hope for the future yet

 

[Groundfish]

Look, it's more ironic right-wing ideology back for another episode of of fear-mongering

Calling me names does not prove the untruth of that.

d yes, I vote Libertarian and will be voting for Jorgensen in November. Not it's not a wasted

Do you believe that clown has a chance to win? Wow.

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism"- Thomas Jefferson.

Honest question, have you ever actually met a leftist?

Have you ever supported a family by working or raised children?

Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
If you aren’t liberal at 20 you have no heart
If you’re not conservative at fifty you have no brain.

"my Leader demands law and order. My Leader does no wrong. Only my Leader can keep the peace. My Leader who believes asking for equality & anti-racism means destroying all our great Leader does for the rest of us" ideology, would it?

Trump is the lesser of the evils, here, by a country mile.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Do you believe that clown has a chance to win? Wow.

I'm not going into details but we've already been over how a vote is a statement regardless of if it goes towards a win or not.

 

[GranTurNismo]

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
If you aren’t liberal at 20 you have no heart
If you’re not conservative at fifty you have no brain..

Since when did I advocate for people giving up essential liberties in the name of safety? That sounds quite authoritarian to me. Kind of like the Patriot Act, eh? Or the way right-wingers describe having to wear a mask inside of a store.

And come on man, you didn't even get your second quote right. The actual quote is: "If you aren’t a liberal when you’re young, you have no heart, but if you aren’t a middle-aged conservative, you have no head"- Jules Claretie, 1875.

And bear in mind the terms "liberal" and "conservative" have vastly different meanings and implications in 2020 America than they did in France way back in 1875.

It's telling that you didn't actually address the "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" quote substantively, instead retorting with two unrelated quotes (one of which isn't even correct). As our friend TexRex would say, deflection and obfuscation.

 

[Groundfish]

I just say this...Study Kant, and idealism. Realize why thinking like that was part of the Enlightenment, and why in all ways is far superior in EVERY WAY to the pathological sociopathic idea of objectivism, then get back.
It’s very telling that the second any Kantian based ideology is noticed here it’s immediately me with attack.
No one here has a categorical imperative, that I have seen.
Within a minute any center right ideas are attacked by the inculcated propagandists within this echo chamber.

Edit @turnismo
So you didn’t answer, are you even self supporting at this point? Supporting yourself and or a family?
I would guess not. Your hatred of conservatism is founded on an understanding of it brought by propoganda that doesn’t even originate from America.
Remember history remember how many young men died to give you the freedom to play keyboard warrior.

 

[McLaren]

Calling me names does not prove the untruth of that.

I didn't call you any names.

I said that you claimed was ironic right-wing ideology because it is. All that nonsense you just spoke of can easily be reflected back upon conservative-outlooks.

Trump is the lesser of the evils, here, by a country mile.

Yeah, America played that card before and it turned out wrong.

Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

I love watching right-wing folks throw around this quote. I wonder if you know the context in which it was made.

So you didn’t answer, are you even self supporting at this point? Supporting yourself and or a family?

What would this even matter except to be a thinly veiled way of discrediting his point by basically saying, "You're too young, you don't even know better"?

 

[Joey D]

Do you believe that clown has a chance to win? Wow.

Nope, I know she has no chance of winning. What I want is for her, along with Hawkins, to get 5% of the vote each so they can get access to proper funding.

Also, what exactly makes her a clown? Do you know anything about Jorgensen?

 

[Tornado]

Within a minute any center right ideas are attacked by the inculcated propagandists within this echo chamber.

It's almost as amusing seeing you paint everyone in this forum who doesn't like Trump as part of a Libertarian echo chamber as it is seeing Chrunch Houston try to paint everyone who doesn't like Trump as a radical leftist.

Remember history remember how many young men died to give you the freedom to play keyboard warrior.

Not that "the lesser of two evils by a country mile" cares about that, of course.

 

[GranTurNismo]

Within a minute any center right ideas are attacked by the inculcated propagandists within this echo chamber.

Wait a minute? If I'm understanding you right, you're calling GTPlanet an echo chamber?

And here I thought that the reason why I enjoy this place is because I think it's quite the opposite. You have members in this subforum who are leftists, centrists, libertarian-right, and yes, a few reactionary Trump supporters. This diversity allows for fruitful discussion and prevents this subforum from devolving into an echo-chamber, unlike many subreddits and Facebook groups. It's one thing to claim that you're upset that no one on this site agrees with certain beliefs of yours, but that doesn't make GTP an echo-chamber.

 

[Joey D]

If I'm understanding you right, you're calling GTPlanet an echo chamber?

If anything GTP is one of the few forms of social media I frequent where it isn't an echo chamber. It's also telling that people who are from different ends of the spectrum also end up agreeing with one another from time to time too, that alone says that many of us are at least willing to hear and understand the counterpoint. While I'm very libertarian, it doesn't mean that I won't at least have a discussion over a well reasoned socialist viewpoint and I know the same is true for people on the flip side of that.

There are some people who like to come in here and shout, but I think for the most part the regulars are fairly diverse and respectful of other's opinions.