America - The Official Thread

[GranTurNismo]

Edit @turnismo
So you didn’t answer, are you even self supporting at this point? Supporting yourself and or a family?
I would guess not. Your hatred of conservatism is founded on an understanding of it brought by propoganda that doesn’t even originate from America.
Remember history remember how many young men died to give you the freedom to play keyboard warrior.

First, I'm 17. That should answer whether or not I support a family or not.

My disagreements with modern conservatism in the United States is purely based on policy reasons. Unfortunately, it's mostly a reactionary movement; the side that's constantly against progressive change that would elevate the standard of living for many Americans. You know, there's this thing known as the free marketplace of ideas. People can freely choose which beliefs/ideologies they support and which ones they don't based on learning about them. This may come as a shocker to you, but I'm not a leftist because I'm propagandized to be one, but because leftist ideology is the ideology of which my values most closely align with. Also, I don't have the first clue of what you mean by my "hatred of conservatism is founded on an understanding of it brought by propaganda that doesn’t even originate from America".

And for that last point, the same applies to you my friend. If anything, your demeanor in this subforum makes you more of a "keyboard warrior" than any other member here. Your posts are often sensationalist, misleading, and rude towards other members, all behaviors which could constitute as "trolling". GTP has higher standards than that.

 

[Groundfish]

All I’m saying is, echo chamber re almost no posts pointing out America’s strengths and inherent greatness.
I scan from time to time here and usually the people getting a hard time from both the regressive left and extremist Libertarians are those supporting some positive view of the USA.
People like Tyson and crunch and some others point out things that others don’t want to accept, so they are attacked, and most commonly in ways that I do not see as rational. Huge amount of strawman fallacies.
But I digress.
I UNDERSTAND WHY the setup of the USA govt is what it is and WHY it’s excellent.
I love America.

(I’ll leave now sorry to interrupt whatever it was you were doing before)

 

[DesertPenguin]

(I’ll leave now sorry to interrupt whatever it was you were doing before)

See ya next week? Same time, same place?

 

[Tornado]

"People like Chrunch" swarm this thread and others in this forum with Facebook fear mongering talking points that are so laughable that Fox News calls Trump on them when he says them in their presence; then vanish from whatever thread they were posting in for a while when called on them in favor of petulantly acting like the mere fact of people trying to debate them is proof that their views are being censored by some collective left wing force. It's bush-league Gran Turismo subforum debate tactics.



Forgive me if I don't recognize your summation of these threads as being accurate.

 

[GranTurNismo]

All I’m saying is, echo chamber re almost no posts pointing out America’s strengths and inherent greatness.

Because maybe you've missed the point of the thread? The "America" thread is a place to discuss political news/happenings which concern America, not hold hands and sing Kumbaya about how much we love our country. There's no obligation to show constant support for America here. Some people in this thread have disagreements with America's president and it's politics, but that can't just be equated to "America-hating". You're more than welcome to start an "America praise" thread if you really feel you're needs aren't being met.

regressive left

Had to laugh at this one. That's quite the oxymoron.

People like Tyson and crunch and some others point out things that others don’t want to accept, so they are attacked,

Disagreeing with a member's post or views is not an "attack". Again, this goes back to the concept of the "free marketplace of ideas". People are free to choose which beliefs they do and don't support, as well as the ability to question and call out such beliefs. Unless I'm reading it wrong, the aforementioned members are mainly critiqued for their never-ending praise of Trump/ the Republican party and assuming that those who disagree with them must be "radical leftists".

 

[ryzno]

Nope, I know she has no chance of winning. What I want is for her, along with Hawkins, to get 5% of the vote each so they can get access to proper funding.

I have an image that shows a line up of the top MSM network polls of the 2 main and two other candidates. It shows no network polling for the 2 libertarians. And you can't get a quota if you don't ask.
I'd share it but I to this day can't figure out how to get an image off my phone to here without using my laptop which I unfortunately sent into the wall a month ago.
I can copy and paste links but actual images or screenshots I can't figure out.

Edit: Figured it out...

 

[Joey D]

I have an image that shows a line up of the top MSM network polls of the 2 main and two other candidates. It shows no network polling for the 2 libertarians. And you can't get a quota if you don't ask.
I'd share it but I to this day can't figure out how to get an image off my phone to here without using my laptop which I unfortunately sent into the wall a month ago.
I can copy and paste links but actual images or screenshots I can't figure out.

Edit: Figured it out...

View attachment 957298

Hawkins is the Green Party candidate, but what you've showed is exactly part of the problem. We don't have a third party with a chance because they're not able to debate on a national level. My guess is that both Jorgensen and Hawkins would run circles around Trump and Biden. They'd both be able to sway a ton of voters too. Republicans who are fed up with how authoritarian the GOP has become would flock to the Libertarian Party and Democrats who are actually progressive would flock to the Green Party.

I hope at some point during my lifetime we see a third party, any third party, get a shot. While I certainly don't agree with the Green Party on many things, I'd even take them becoming a viable third party since at least it wouldn't be Giant Douche v. Turd Sandwich.

 

[polysmut]

People like Tyson and crunch and some others point out things that others don’t want to accept, so they are attacked

These are all from today.

See how their irrational crazymaker by design position works lol?

See the problem is these lunatics Online

maybe if you’re stupid enough to want LACK OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
then you morons in favor of the idea

Are you high?

Remember history remember how many young men died to give you the freedom to play keyboard warrior.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

The KKK is systemically racist, the South African apartied system was systemically racist, Jim Crow was systemically racist.

Context. You left out the American justice system, which is why these BLM jackasses are out wreaking havoc every night.

It's not supposedly, it's a fact that the wealth the country was grown on came from slavery, and given that slaves were considered property it's not really a surprise they are not mentioned specifically, pretty certain not every item of property was.

Slavery held the US back. The country would have grown faster and more prosperous, and would have greater wealth, if we had never allowed slavery from the beginning, as some at the time wanted us to do. It was a cost.

You two can fight that out, but I'll just leave these here for @Scaff.

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism"- Thomas Jefferson.

Sorry, but he never said that.

"People like Chrunch" swarm this thread and others in this forum with Facebook fear mongering talking points that are so laughable...

What exactly is a people like me? I don't go on Facebook. I prefer to do my fear mongering with talking points from Twitter.

 

[GranTurNismo]

Sorry, but he never said that.

Unfortunately for me, it appears you are correct. A search reveals that although it was commonly believed Jefferson wrote "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism", no such words were ever found in Jefferson's written works.

https://www.monticello.org/site/res...nt-highest-form-patriotism-spurious-quotation

It appears the phrase had it's origins from anti-Vietnam war protesters in 1969. I guess that's a roundabout way of saying "America haters".

Welp, I gotta give it to ya, you won. Dissent is unpatriotic and if you criticize this country's institutions, you should probably leave since you hate the country. I should've known that from the beginning. Leftists like me should just fall in line and stop with their ridiculous anti-American ideas such as "ending the wars" or "getting big money out of politics" or "healthcare for all" and support our dear leader Donald J. Trump without hesitation.

 

[DesertPenguin]

I don't go on Facebook. I prefer to do my fear mongering with talking points from Twitter.

1) Twitter or Facebook is the same difference
2) You admit that all you're doing here is fear mongering

 

[Groundfish]

. Republicans who are fed up with how authoritarian the GOP has become would flock to the Libertarian Part

Not with this website...
https://jo20.com/
Legalize drugs lol I posted before search ‘Seattle is dying you tube’
to see what that leads to. It’s not all nonviolence and a bunch of nonviolent hippies singing nun ba ya man.
Next up no one should have to have a license.
Good one again you go hire an unlicensed contractor to wire your house on the cheap and he does code violations resulting in a fire that consumes other homes you go to jail. I like that and I do not accept the libertarian solution is what you gave “you have the right to sue me for that’
and ‘burning someone’s house down isn’t the same as killing them’
Same as I said in those videos there, one of them referenced the fiction writer Rand.
I mean if you look at that site and think that’s a platform more power to you.
To me I see a bunch of unworkable ideas.
Ideas that spawned probably not from within the USA but outside it by foreign powers seeking to subvert it imo.
Imo if a group wants to form a viable third party they ought to develop and focus on their platform.
90 percent of those videos is nothing more than people saying libertarianism is good.
That’s it they are tautologies.
Imo I’d love to see a viable third party emerge but if that’s the best one can do then I’m voting for the lesser evil as always rather than what I’d prefer was available.
OTC birth control and legalizing drugs combined with deregulation is a recipe for anarchy imo.
That’s why I’ve told you that opinion before.
Imo there exists like anarchists cookbook anarchists and then there’s libertarians.
There’s a reason the majority of Americans have never heard of the libertarian candidate imo and it’s because they lack even enough grassroots following to get momentum due to their platform.
That’s jmo.
Take that in contrast to the Ross Perot candidacy. He gained momentum because of his platform.
Personally to me, it comes down to platform over what I see on the website above which is platitudes/tautology-jmo

 

[Joey D]

Ideas that spawned probably not from within the USA but outside it by foreign powers seeking to subvert it imo.

You've seen the current Republican party right? They're heavily influenced by foreign powers, mostly Israel.

OTC birth control and legalizing drugs combined with deregulation is a recipe for anarchy imo.

Oh God, all those people running around having sex without making babies and smoking weed is going to absolutely collapse society!

 

[UKMikey]

Oh God, all those people running around having sex without making babies and smoking weed is going to absolutely collapse society!

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Oh God, all those people running around having sex without making babies and smoking weed is going to absolutely collapse society!

That is something that threatens the foundation of this country. Without people making babies, this country would never have been established.

 

[GranTurNismo]

You've seen the current Republican party right? They're heavily influenced by foreign powers, mostly Israel.

Honestly I'd say Saudi Arabia has just as much power over the Republicans as Israel at this point, especially considering their dealings with Trump. But yeah, pretty much every establishment politician-whether Republican or Democrat- is heavily influenced by Israel.

 

[UKMikey]

That is something that threatens the foundation of this country. Without people making babies, this country would never have been established.

Are you serious? It's not threatening the foundation of your country or any other's. People are still making babies. Contraception just means they can make them when they want to. That's why it used to be called family planning.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Are you serious?

Nay

 

[UKMikey]

It sounds like libertarians are against mandatory government licensing rather than any kind of certification at all if this op-ed is anything to go by.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion...out-license/HXd63fWeuMcMHzzPfewuEM/story.html

 

[McLaren]

People like Tyson and crunch and some others point out things that others don’t want to accept, so they are attacked, and most commonly in ways that I do not see as rational. Huge amount of strawman fallacies.

There's more of that irony failing to recognize (or "don't want to accept") that it's just as guilty of what it preaches.

 

[Groundfish]

Honestly I'd say Saudi Arabia has just as much power over the Republicans as Israel at this point, especially considering their dealings with Trump. But yeah, pretty much every establishment politician-whether Republican or Democrat- is heavily influenced by Israel.

No matter what by far the biggest mistakes ever were made in the 90s when dems sold out US industry to China, who now owns the dems.
Why were there investigations by the fbi ongoing in the 99’s about PRC election finance scandals?
Why were our industries sold so a competing nation could gain military might?
The dems sold America and the efforts by the prc to undermine us have been going on longer than 30 years.
Now the ownership is complete, and dem leaders are creating chaos purposely for political reasons.
Look it up, learn modern history.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

These are all from today.

His saying, "Are you high?" was a response to this.

Have you been drinking?

So... not really an attack.

 

[polysmut]

His saying, "Are you high?" was a response to this.
So... not really an attack.

That's true.

I wasn't sure whether to include that one but it's indicative of a posting style that I thought left @Groundfish without the high ground from which to accuse others of attacks.

 

[Scaff]

Context. You left out the American justice system, which is why these BLM jackasses are out wreaking havoc every night.
.

No I didn’t, the very next sentence in that post reads...

“Feel free to argue if organisations or systems are suffering from systemic racism, but to argue that the concept doesn't exist is absurd.”

...which you left out when quoting it!

Calling me names does not prove the untruth of that.



Do you believe that clown has a chance to win? Wow.

I’m 50 next month, left wing and currently doing a Masters, guess misquoting thing isn’t always the most accurate approach.

 

[Joey D]

It sounds like libertarians are against mandatory government licensing rather than any kind of certification at all if this op-ed is anything to go by.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion...out-license/HXd63fWeuMcMHzzPfewuEM/story.html

This is true.

Government licensing is kind of pointless in my opinion, but having an employer require specific training and a certificate for that training isn't. My wife is a barber, the state licensing board does nothing to ensure you can cut hair well, only that you can do one very specific haircut on a wig and answer a couple of common-sense questions about sanitation. Her schooling however was 14 months long, 6 hour a day, 5 days a week and she had to pass a pretty strict test in order to graduate.

 

[Groundfish]

Government licensing is kind of pointless in my opinion

Sure we established if you build a home improperly, which causes fire which destroys your neighbors home your solution is sue.
I mean think about an engineer. Any Tom Dick or Harry can’t just decide one day “I’m an engineer now”
It’s because often whatever is being engineered affects others in society.
Therefore standards must be maintained.
Or think of it this way, you burn down your neighbors house he sues you so you need a lawyer. In the Libertarian world you’d have no way of knowing if the person knows the first thing about law.
Or surgery maybe you have a hernia and contract a disease during the operation.
Oh well guess you can sue him. Meanwhile the bad doctor is free to kill others by his malpractice.
I’m for freedom but all these examples just show why you need some regulation.

Take Lassez faire capitalism for you monopolies go unchecked big tobacco targets whoever, I mean you can’t let large corporations go unchecked!
That’s a big problem today!
These are just a few of the many reasons I consider libertarianism totally untenable and a kissing cousin to total anarchy.

 

[ryzno]

Sure we established if you build a home improperly, which causes fire which destroys your neighbors home your solution is sue.
I mean think about an engineer. Any Tom Dick or Harry can’t just decide one day “I’m an engineer now”
It’s because often whatever is being engineered affects others in society.
Therefore standards must be maintained.
Or think of it this way, you burn down your neighbors house he sues you so you need a lawyer. In the Libertarian world you’d have no way of knowing if the person knows the first thing about law.
Or surgery maybe you have a hernia and contract a disease during the operation.
Oh well guess you can sue him. Meanwhile the bad doctor is free to kill others by his malpractice.
I’m for freedom but all these examples just show why you need some regulation.

Take Lassez faire capitalism for you monopolies go unchecked big tobacco targets whoever, I mean you can’t let large corporations go unchecked!
That’s a big problem today!
These are just a few of the many reasons I consider libertarianism totally untenable and a kissing cousin to total anarchy.

While I agree, he has a point.
I was talking about how 3 guys recently died at a site we were working at. OSHA came through, gave a slap on the wrist, fined the main company an undisclosed amount and they paid $1.5M to the 3 families.(half mill a piece)
The site is back up and running like nothing ever happened.
We also have a parking deck under construction here just collapse for the 2nd time. 1 person injured.
We need regulations but it doesn't help anything if at the end of the day is all you need to do is break off a check and say sorry my bad.

 

[GranTurNismo]

I mean you can’t let large corporations go unchecked!
That’s a big problem today!

I may disagree with many of your reasons for hating libertarianism, but hey, at least we can agree on something.

 

[McLaren]

While I agree, he has a point.
I was talking about how 3 guys recently died at a site we were working at. OSHA came through, gave a slap on the wrist, fined the main company an undisclosed amount and they paid $1.5M to the 3 families.(half mill a piece)
The site is back up and running like nothing ever happened.
We also have a parking deck under construction here just collapse for the 2nd time. 1 person injured.
We need regulations but it doesn't help anything if at the end of the day is all you need to do is break off a check and say sorry my bad.

Funny how OSHA is meme'd as this big, super strict, by-the-books agency only to read instances like this that if the company's got enough money, they'll pay whatever OSHA fines them & OSHA wipes their hands like job well done.

 

[Groundfish]

company an undisclosed amount and they paid $1.5M to the 3 families.(half mill a piece)

So what’s the alternative to financial compensation for loss of life? (I believe life is priceless but that’s OT)

I present you with the Libertarian solution
(No OSHA)

Without regulation industrial accidents would be commonplace. No company wants OSHA and lawyers getting into their pockets.
Further here is another example, when doing construction usually excavation is involved.
So with no licensing no regulation Joey decides to hire an unlicensed well driller to drill a well for the house his unlicensed electrician wired incorrectly.
Well driller hits high pressure has main serving the city. The gas is ignited and destroys more and kills more neighbors.
Regulation licensing etc are red tape but they are needed and they save lives.
Nothing is not an acceptable alternative.
That’s what libertarians want tho.
You can’t go all ostrich and stick your head in the sand and fail to realize that organized society is better than lack of rules regs and law.