Any update on selling cars yet?
- Thread starter IcySlivers
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- They/Them
- Autumnal_Glow
- AutumnalGlow
It's very legal. Plenty of multiplayer-only games are now useless because their servers are gone. I doubt there is any law anywhere that differentiates between multiplayer and singleplayer.
We already see how the game will be when the servers are off. That's all that will remain years from now unless PD changes the structure of the game, which they're not likely to do.
- 2,541
- somewhere near Trial Mountain
- oldbusanubis
If you're looking for an online racing experience PC3 Is pretty much dead in that regard too. However, unlike PC2, 3 has a very GT style progression. You'll start off with a slow car and gradually upgrade it using credits you earn from completing various challenges that award you xp, get enough xp and you gain credits.
While all tracks and cars are unlocked at the start, you will need to earn XP in each car to earn discounts on parts that you buy for your own personal car collection. Your cars can be modified with both performance and visual changes. The loan cars they give you cannot be upgraded so I find that there is some rewards for buying and trying out all the cars. You gain xp for mastering the tracks too which of course gives you money.
Career mode has you unlock events and you start off with the slowest road cars and work your way toward the supercars and race cars. The later events earn you more XP than the earlier events do.
Anyway, we should probably take this discussion to the PC3 section. I recommend trying the game, but buy it at discount.
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- 13,881
- Adelaide
- Neomone
I don't know about this one. GT5 was pretty broken at launch. It was fixed in pretty short order, but it'd still get my vote for most broken GT game at launch.
Why wouldn't it be legal? It wouldn't be the first game to be unplayable when the servers go down. Every defunct MMO, for starters.
- 1,251
- Australia
You'll probably be right. I wasn't there for the GT5 launch at all just ended up playing it and having a blast down the road, many good memories on that game all in all.
That appeals to me but for it to truly feel like fun, I have my doubts about playing it lol PC2 was a mess for most on a controller. GT games have always had very easy controller handling
- 13,881
- Adelaide
- Neomone
Absolutely, by Spec II it was a pretty spectacular game. GT5, 6 and Sport all were significantly better a couple of years after launch, and the hope is that GT7 repeats that.
But it also means that all these games had pretty serious issues or limitations at launch and it took a while after that for them to really come up to the expected level of quality. Which means that people who bought in early (and I feel like we're still in the "bought in early" phase) get a rough ride. I wouldn't tell people not to buy GT7, but I would tell people to think about whether they really want to buy it now knowing that in the future it'll probably be both better and cheaper.
- 2,541
- somewhere near Trial Mountain
- oldbusanubis
You're in luck, 3 has been designed with controller priority in mind. Sucks that wheels got the short end of the stick though, but I feel that once you get used to the physics it feels nice on a controller. The bad feel of controller in 1 and 2 have for the most part been dealt with, I say most part as I do find the acceleration a bit touchy, but easy to adapt to.
- 16,258
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
- 819
- Austria
Sure I agree with you generally on most of this, even tough I wouldn’t say they have all the resources and budget they need. But I mean that it’s a bit unfair to be even more critical with PlayStation first party games because they usually deliver very polished games on release in comparison to others.
And GT7 for me is a very polished game in my opinion, didn’t ran into any great bugs or something, the problem is it just lacks content in terms of races and overall career, it’s wasted potential as it stands right now.
So yeah as a AAA game you have to check some boxes to qualify as one, and GT7 ain’t checking this box for me fully.
Grimm6Jack
(Banned)
- 1,535
- Setubal, Portugal
- Grimm66Jack
EDIT: I never played PC1 on consoles, but I did on PC and have the game on Steam. It was impossible to drive it, propperly at least, with a controller. Tried messing up with the settings and I gave up... But I think the first Assetto Corsa (haven't played ACC) is even worse in that regard.
Which is why I say, that by the time PD decides to leave this game for good, they will close the servers, but remove the always online requirement. So basically, all the single player content can be played, but Lobbies and Sport mode will be unplayable.
Well, we actually can get an idea of how they will handle this, since GT Sport's servers haven't been closed yet and the game has a lot of single player content.
If they do decide to close the servers and keep the online requirement, which pretty much bricks the game, then I'm afraid I won't ever buy a game from PD again. And in my case, there's thousands if not even millions of players who would take the same decision, this would just be a stupid move by them.
Paying a full 80€ price tag for a game game designed to be single player focused, to be bricked a few years down the line because of an always online requirement that the developer effectively could just work around and remove it?
It doesn't matter what lenghts they have to take, they just can't let this happen.
I have all GT1-6 discs in my shelf and I can just take out my PS2-PS3 and play them whenever I want. Should be the same way with GT7, because otherwise? Might as well put the game in the trash can.
Yeah, but in Gran Turismo's case, it is effectively a single player AAA game with an online requirement. It's not a pure Online Game and again, it's a Triple A title, not an indie game or a minor game developed by a far smaller studio with barely any recognition. This is a Sony First party Triple A game. This would be unheard of (IIRC).
Which is why I say, that by the time PD decides to leave this game for good, they will close the servers, but remove the always online requirement. So basically, all the single player content can be played, but Lobbies and Sport mode will be unplayable.
Well, we actually can get an idea of how they will handle this, since GT Sport's servers haven't been closed yet and the game has a lot of single player content.
If they do decide to close the servers and keep the online requirement, which pretty much bricks the game, then I'm afraid I won't ever buy a game from PD again. And in my case, there's thousands if not even millions of players who would take the same decision, this would just be a stupid move by them.
Paying a full 80€ price tag for a game game designed to be single player focused, to be bricked a few years down the line because of an always online requirement that the developer effectively could just work around and remove it?
It doesn't matter what lenghts they have to take, they just can't let this happen.
I have all GT1-6 discs in my shelf and I can just take out my PS2-PS3 and play them whenever I want. Should be the same way with GT7, because otherwise? Might as well put the game in the trash can.
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- 5,704
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- FMecha_EXE
- 13,881
- Adelaide
- Neomone
Just because something is unheard of doesn't mean it's illegal.
And just because something is stupid doesn't mean it's illegal either. Or that it can't happen.
You might want to try that with GT5 and 6. Even the single player content was significantly affected. They're still playable, but they're not what they were when the servers were up.
Grimm6Jack
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- Grimm66Jack
I didn't explicitly stated it was illegal, I just thought that it could be illegal or shouldn't be legal. Which is entirely within reason and especially, common sense as this is an extremely scummy practic for a game like this. I just don't have the knowledge of it so I assumed. So let's end it here. This isn't my goal post...
I can do the Special Challenges
I can do the Licenses
I can do the hundreds of races in the game
I can buy, sell and tune cars, all the cars (at launch)
... So I literally can still complete and play the single player content that was available for the game (GT5 and GT6) at launch. I haven't uninstalled the PS3 games since I got my 2nd PS3 in 2013, but I also can play the DLC content I got from both games. I dunno if I uninstall the game, if the DLC will still be available, I hear some rumors that you can't though.
GT7, if PD keeps the online requirement but the servers get shut shut down, you literally can't do anything but time trial and music rally on an extremely limited number of cars from the game. So basically, garbage...
That's... a rather big difference. Which is why I think PD in the end will remove the online requirement, as they will no longer care about the game as they will be focused on GT8+. This online requirement is mostly to prevent cheating, which they won't give a crap about once the game is past its sell date.
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- 26
- United States
oh it will happen sooner or later. this square enix game came out 6 months ago and is already getting shut down, not going offline. even better, they're still selling it at full retail price.
unfortunately with the "service" based "always-on" games that AAA developers think we want these days, "just make it offline" isn't as simple as it used to be. when it comes down to it, at minimum, it will cost money for PD to change code and put out an update at end of life to "just make GT7 offline", and the bean counters very likely will say it isn't worth it, or the devs will be so hard at work fixing all the inevitable problems from GT8's launch that they'll just not have time to do it.
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- 1,251
- Australia
This whole fiasco reminds me of some japanese words ....Keiretsu ? But I'm sure there's another one.
There's an issue with Honda supporting Takata and Takata deliberately making faulty airbags. This has been going on for decades. Everyone knows Takata is making faulty airbags, so why does Honda keep installing them in their cars, even when it causes customer injuries and/or fatalities over many years? Keirestu.
Apply this to PDI, PDI are working at their own pace, not really listening to outside influence.. and it's this special insular relationship they have with their investors that allows them to ship out an inferior product to the consumer and nobody cares.
There's an issue with Honda supporting Takata and Takata deliberately making faulty airbags. This has been going on for decades. Everyone knows Takata is making faulty airbags, so why does Honda keep installing them in their cars, even when it causes customer injuries and/or fatalities over many years? Keirestu.
Keiretsu
Apply this to PDI, PDI are working at their own pace, not really listening to outside influence.. and it's this special insular relationship they have with their investors that allows them to ship out an inferior product to the consumer and nobody cares.
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Grimm6Jack
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- Grimm66Jack
So what if it will cost PD money to make the game offline? By the time they shut down the online servers, they will have a profit of dozens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars just from game sales and microtransactions, among other things.
Costing money to change the code to make the game offline is going to be a non-existent fraction of that insanely huge profit. At the very least they will keep their customers/game players happy and show that they care about them.
If they do cripple GT7, they are going to lose a lot of faith from the playerbase. Would you buy GT8 from the store knowing how they treated GT7? I would probably buy GT8 still... on the used market for like 1/4th of the price. Tough luck if you play digital only though. I surely won't buy any more games NEW from the store from them if they brick GT7, even if they discount the game's price, would still rather give the money to another person than directly give it to them. They don't profit from the used market after all.
Also, Square Enix makes a plethora of games, they have a lot more liberty than PD who only focuses on Gran Turismo. It's not about being legal, it's about being smart with their customers. Which they will definitely lose a good chunk of them if they opt to go that route.
And that game in question that SE is going to shut down, was it a mainly online focus game or a main single player game? Because GT7 is mainly a single player game, where online is pretty much secondary.
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- 26
- United States
this is all you need to know. the bean counters will balance "how much will it cost me to maintain/update a game versus how much it will cost me in lost sales for the sequel" and make the decision. and the way its looking with most "always connected" games these days, they'll release the sequel, maintain the previous servers during the launch window of the sequel when they make most of their money and people are buying it up, then kill off the old one after the fanbase is on the new one.
I think PD would beg to differ with you based on what they're putting the focus on development wise. also, it really doesn't matter if it's single- or multiplayer focused, the point is its online-focused.
my entire point is, as someone who purchases games, you must assume that any features of a game that require an internet connection with a server at the other end will die eventually. it will take a different amount of time for every game and there may be limited exceptions to the rule, but once CFOs decide it's not worth it to pay for maintenance, your disc is severely crippled at best or a paperweight at worst.
I bought GT7 knowing this, and I've accepted it, but I'm still not happy about it.
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- 13,881
- Adelaide
- Neomone
There's a big difference in the content that will be available, but if you go back and play GT5 or GT6 now you do not have access to all the single player content that you did when the servers were live. Polyphony notably did almost no work transitioning the game to work well without the servers, they just turned them off and some stuff broke. It's fortunate that some stuff worked without the online, but that seems like more by luck than design.
If you assume that they take the same approach, because why would they change their minds now, they'll just do the same with GTS and GT7. That will break pretty much the entire game in both cases, but given how quick they were to shut down GT5/6 to drive players to the new release they'll arguably see this as a positive.
You can say that it's scummy, but that doesn't really come into it. We're talking about a company here. They're fine with doing scummy things. Just look at the microtransactions.
Right. And not paying to make the game offline will be pure profit for them, because they already have your money.
As far as keeping the customers happy, do you think that Polyphony has demonstrated that this is something they care deeply about? They made statements when the internet was in an uproar after release, and since then it's been no communication and minimal content updates. I wouldn't rely on them doing stuff against their own interest in order to keep you happy. They'll do whatever they think makes them the most money.
Given the shenanigans around the release of GT5, 6 and Sport and continued success of GT7 I think they have ample evidence that they can do more or less as they please and plenty of people will still buy the next game.
- 16,258
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- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
- 3,543
- Theresa, Wisconsin
Why is it so important to some people that cars can be sold?? If you dont want them they can be deleted. Even if cars can be sold I doubt that the credits earned for selling would be very large.
- 4,465
- Finland
True, but you would still get something.
I think the biggest reason is no one wants to keep those cars they bought merely for completing the collection. My ideal garage would only include the cars I give a crap about.
And yeah, this
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Grimm6Jack
(Banned)
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- Grimm66Jack
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We need ability to sell cars and trash the car invites for cars you already have and parts you dont have a car for. Completely useless to get those invites and parts. Or just put everything under the sell option. Can sell those useless parts and sell the invite. You're literally getting nothing when getting an invite for a car you already own.
- 3,543
- Theresa, Wisconsin
I was not aware of that. The fog is lifting.
