Arab spring uprises Tunisia/Egypt/Libya/Syria

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

There are a couple of Russian anti-ship missiles, the Moskit and the Sunburn, which are proliferous in the Russian fleet and also sold to client states, which are said to make the aircraft carrier and other large surface vessels essentially obsolete. They fly at wave crest level at supersonic speeds, then violently climb and dive straight down and explode through and out the bottom of the hull. There is no known defense.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS-N-22 <--- This will get you started.

I've seen them before, I still think that weapons the U.S. are bringing in will be just fine. I wouldn't be surprised if no major military armament wasn't lost whenever this battle gets going.

 

[Villain]

Have they not attacked unarmed civilians?

Are any of the civilians still unarmed? It's a civil war...

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Are any of the civilians still unarmed? It's a civil war...

Sure there are plenty that are still unarmed, I'm guessing it was a rhetorical question though. Also there was a time this wasn't a civil war where it was just peaceful protestors getting killed by the military under Assad's command, you know like what is going on in Egypt.

 

[Villain]

Sure there are plenty that are still unarmed, I'm guessing it was a rhetorical question though. Also there was a time this wasn't a civil war where it was just peaceful protestors getting killed by the military under Assad's command, you know like what is going on in Egypt.

Yeah, I think you're right.

This article says unarmed civilians have been targeted. Take it with the grain of salt that comes with a 2-sec google news search.

The first paragraph:

(New York) &#8211; Ballistic missiles fired by the Syrian military are hitting populated areas, causing large numbers of civilian deaths, including many children. The most recent attack Human Rights Watch investigated, in Aleppo governorate on July 26, 2013, killed at least 33 civilians, including 17 children.

 

[Touring Mars]

In a somewhat surprising move, Vladimir Putin has said that Russia may support a UN resolution authorizing military action against the Assad regime provided that there was compelling evidence. (link)

He also makes reference to how Russia might respond in the event of a US-led, non-UN supported intervention, including restarting arms/defense systems to Iran that the US and Israel firmly oppose.

 

[defsxoc]

To things ive stolen from another forum that sum it up.

1.
Who he is:

Dr Bashar al-Assad is the current president (dictator) of Syria and the target of a very extensive western smear campaign. He has an MD from the University of Damascus and then travelled to London to attend the Western Eye Hospital to specialise in Ophthalmology. He was later recalled to Syria to become president after his older brother was killed in a car crash and his father was growing ill.

Assad is an Alawite Muslim and vocal critic of the US, Israel, Turkey and Saudi Arabia.

B-but I heard he's a dictator! And dictator bad democracy good right?:

Democracy is only as good as the people who vote, and unfortuanly the majority of Syrians are uneducated extremist sunni muslims.
Assad has stated that democracy is an end goal but things cannot be rushed.

If Syria has democracy then you would end up with a party like the Muslim Brotherhood being voted in (You know those guys with ties to Al-Qaeda) The Brotherhood and extremist voters would quickly bring lots of Sharia law into place and suddenly you have a ****hole like Saudi Arabia where you can get your head cut off for apostasy. There is a sizable population of Secular people and Christians in Syria, however they are a minority and could not prevent an extremist Muslim government getting in with their votes. What do you think the Brotherhood would do to them?

But rebels = good right?

The rebels have recently been doing heroic things like eating peoples hearts, killing children and beheading Syrian Christians. MI6 has stated that the largest danger to Europe would be if the "rebels" got hold of Assad's stockpile of Chemical Weapons. There is evidence that the "rebels" are already using chemical weapons on Assad supporters! And the evidence that Assad has used them is flimsy at best.

The "rebels" are majority non Syrian and backed by countries like Saudi Arabia and organisaitons like the Muslim Brothehood and Al-Qaeda. They are literally an invading army. If you find some pictures of rebels you can even spot that they're a different ethnicity to Syrian people.

But I heard that Assad has violently opressed "rebels" and jails "political activists"

These loaded terms are spewed forth by our western propoganda. All he does is crack down HARD on muslim terorists and extremists, he's been fighting them for years and knows how to deal with them.

Why you should support Assad:

Being an Alawite, an extremly moderate sect of Islam, Assad realises that Sharia law has no place in a modern civilised nation. He harbours no ill feelings towards the population of Christians and Atheists in Syria and doesn't treat them as second class citizens like an extremist Sunni government would.

Even if you think he is bad he's cetainly the lesser of two evils.

2.
FOR:

It&#8217;s the right thing to do, maybe
Let American people finally sleep at night after years of being tormented by thoughts of innocent Syrians dying
Will put thousands of honest, diligent American Tomahawk cruise missiles back to work
We&#8217;re the good guys
Syrian people deserve to be free of a psychotic, oppressive dictator for a few weeks
Moral obligation to our defense industry
Footage of missiles being launched off decks of ships, green night-vision images, aerial shots of explosions&#8212;all that good stuff
Have plenty of money, a fresh, rested military&#8212;why not?
Be nice to throw Kathryn Bigelow a bone
Chance for Obama to put an exclamation point on an already great year
It&#8217;s been a while since we did one of these things



AGAINST:

Someone might be hurt, or even die
Could turn Russia and Iran against U.S.
History
Fear of setting a precedent of military action without U.N. approval
Slight, almost infinitesimal chance intervention might be a completely ineffectual act that even further destabilizes the region, touching off massive anti-American sentiment while allowing jihadist radicals to take power
Painful memories of intervening in Rwandan genocide
It&#8217;s hard
Bashar al-Assad just had a baby. A baby!
Bush invaded a foreign country. If Obama invades a foreign country, he will be like Bush. It is not good to be like Bush.
If we ever want to patch things up with Assad, this won&#8217;t exactly make that conversation a cake walk
Situation might work itself out

So to sum up this has been planed for years and everyone knows it. Assad isnt some evil dictator. There is a US four star genral telling all this to the world.

To people who think yeah yeah CIA has nothing to do with these uprisings then just use somple maths

Saddam: Put in power by the CIA FACT
Bin Laden:Trained by CIA FACT
80s Iranien Coo:CIA have just put there hand up "Yep we got that democrativaly elected goverment out" (Even covered last week on the BBC FACT.

Assad got acused 6 mnths ago of the same thing and the rebels were the ones who did it. Bieng an inteligent man when his side is winning would he do the one thing that would have the US march in?

 

[VolkswagenX]

In a somewhat surprising move, Vladimir Putin has said that Russia may support a UN resolution authorizing military action against the Assad regime provided that there was compelling evidence. (link)

He also makes reference to how Russia might respond in the event of a US-led, non-UN supported intervention, including restarting arms/defense systems to Iran that the US and Israel firmly oppose.

Putin knows that the compelling evidence doesn't exist. It's easy for him to make a statement like that.

(...)

Great post:tup:

 

[Rage Racer]

There are a couple of Russian anti-ship missiles, the Moskit and the Sunburn

Err... Moskit and Sunburn are the same one missile. SS-N-22 Sunburn is the NATO designation, P-270 Moskit ("Mosquito") is the original Russian designation.

By the way, Syrians were importing Yakhont anti-ship missiles (the export versions of the Russian P-800 Onyx missiles. The Israeli Air Force reported about destroying the Bastion launchers in an air raid, but some of them are believed to have been removed from the target warehouse before the attack.

 

[Slash]

US Senate has just approved use of military force against Syria. Bad idea.

 

[Dotini]

US Senate has just approved use of military force against Syria. Bad idea.

Well, technically it was only the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. But anyway it was always a forgone conclusion the Senate would vote yea. The real battle comes in the House, where the nays are in with a loud shout. Nationwide polls show more than 80% of the people don't want a strike, and a similar number wanting Congress to authorize any such strike. Since House members are up for reelection so often, it is only with trepidation for their careers they will risk a yea vote.

After likely defeat of authorization, it will be extremely amusing to see what our Rock of Gibralter Jell-O president will do next. Since he is now denying he ever drew a red line and is insisting his credibility is not at stake, I expect he will slither off the hook altogether, looking for his domestic accomplishments to burnish any historical laurels.

 

[Touring Mars]

For one's credibility to be at stake, first you must have some 💡

 

[Slash]

For one's credibility to be at stake, first you must have some 💡

Ever since he took leadership of this country, things have gone downhill.

 

[Blitz24]

Ever since he took leadership of this country, things have gone downhill.

Which, if he had no credibility to begin with, should not come as a shock to anyone.

 

[Slash]

Which, if he had no credibility to begin with, should not come as a shock to anyone.

It didn't to me. Didn't vote for him anyways.

 

[DK]

Guys, forgive me for being a devil's advocate, but...

Ever since he took leadership of this country, things have gone downhill.

...as if that wasn't happening by the end of the Bush administration. Personally, I think Obama has done a meh job so far.

Anyway, I wonder what China has said so far during the week-and-a-half following the sarin attack regarding any intervention in Syria.

 

[Johnnypenso]

After likely defeat of authorization, it will be extremely amusing to see what our Rock of Gibralter Jell-O president will do next. Since he is now denying he ever drew a red line and is insisting his credibility is not at stake, I expect he will slither off the hook altogether, looking for his domestic accomplishments to burnish any historical laurels.

As much as I dislike Obama and think he's a lousy President, it still saddens me to turn on the evening news and see him saying something along the lines of, "It's not my red line in the sand, it's the worlds". That's awfully sad for the supposed leader of the free world to feel he has to backtrack like that when the world doesn't fall into line behind him after giving a flowery speech.

 

[Touring Mars]

There's a very handy guide to who in Congress is for and who is against US military action in Syria, from the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...spects-for-syria-resolution-dimming-in-house/

RT.com have a similar graphic from Think Progress on their website... although who is President Barack al-Assad?? (link - although it will probably be corrected by the time you see it!)

Obama is currently meeting with international leaders in Russia at the annual G-20 meeting, where he is reportedly lobbying foreign representatives to rally behind a US-led strike against Syrian President Barack al-Assad. As American politicians prepare to vote on whether or not they should authorize such an attack, however, Obama&#8217;s cause is quickly losing support in Congress.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Putin is threatening to put up a missle shield in the face of an American attack on Syria...things are heating up kids and now is when the rubber really hits the road for a President. This has all the earmarks of turning into a disaster and a much bigger conflict than anticpated at this point.

http://www.foxnews.com/

 

[VolkswagenX]

The evil Christians made this 'poor guy' blow himself up...👎

Syrian Rebels And Army Battle Over Regime-Held Christian Village Of Maaloula

BEIRUT — Syrian government troops battled al-Qaida-linked rebels over a regime-held Christian village in western Syria for the second day Thursday, as world leaders gathered in Russia for an economic summit expected to be overshadowed by the prospect of U.S.-led strikes against the Damascus regime.

Residents of Maaloula said the militants entered the village late Wednesday. Rami Abdul-Rahman, the director of the Britain-based Observatory for Human Rights, said the fighters included members of the of al-Qaida affiliated Jabhat al-Nusra group.

Despite heavy army presence in the village, Abdul-Rahman said the rebels patrolled its streets on foot and in vehicles, briefly surrounding a church and a mosque before leaving early Thursday.

The rebels launched the assault on the ancient Christian village of Maaloula – which is on a UNESCO list of tentative world heritage sites – on Wednesday after an al-Nusra fighter blew himself up at a regime checkpoint at the entrance to the mountain village. The village, about 40 miles (60 kilometers) northeast of Damascus, is home to 3,300 residents, some of whom still speak a version of Aramaic, the ancient language of biblical times believed to have been spoken by Jesus.

Heavy clashes between President Bashar Assad's troops and Nusra Front fighters persisted in surrounding mountains Thursday, according to the Observatory, which collects information from a network of anti-regime activists.

Speaking by phone from a convent in the village, a nun told The Associated Press that the rebels left a mountaintop hotel Thursday after capturing it a day earlier. The nun said the frightened residents expect the Islamic militants to return to the Safir hotel and resume shelling of the community below.

"It's their home now," the nun said. She said some 100 people from the village took refuge in the convent. The 27 orphans who live there had been taken to nearby caves overnight "so they were not scared."

The nun spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisals.

Meanwhile Thursday, a car bomb exploded outside a research center belonging to the Ministry of Industry in area of Soumariya near Damascus, killing four people and wounding several others, a government official said. The official who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly.


In Damascus, three people were injured when several mortar shells hit two residential neighborhoods, the state news agency SANA reported. Rebels fighting to topple Assad have frequently fired mortars in the capital to disrupt life there that the regime tries hard to portray as normal and detached from the fighting raging around the country.

In the northern province of Aleppo, a Syrian surgeon working for an international aid group that supports doctors in war zones was killed. Doctors Without Borders said in a statement Thursday that the 28-year-old surgeon, Muhammad Abyad, was killed in an attack. Abyad, whose body was found Tuesday, had been working in an Aleppo hospital run by the group.

The Syrian conflict started in March 2011 as largely peaceful protests against Assad's rule. It turned into a civil war after opposition supporters took up arms to fight a brutal government crackdown on dissent. After two years of fighting, the civil war hit a stalemate with the rebels controlling much of the countryside in the north, east and south, and the regime holding on to most urban centers in the west, where the majority of Syrians live.

The four-decade iron rule of the Assad family over Syria long has rested on support from the country's ethnic and religious minorities, including Christians, Shiite Muslims and Kurds. The Assad family and key regime figures are Alawites, followers of an offshoot of Shiite Islam, while most rebels and their supporters are Sunni Muslims.

More than 100,000 people have been killed in the war, with nearly 7 million people uprooted from their homes. U.N. officials estimate that five million Syrians have been displaced inside the country while an additional 2 million Syrians have fled to neighboring countries. The total amounts to nearly one-third of Syria's population, which stood at 23 million before the fighting began.

United Nations humanitarian chief Valerie Amos met with Syrian government officials in the capital Thursday, lobbying them for access to civilians trapped in areas where fighting has raged.

After a meeting with the President of the Syrian Arab Red Crescent, Amos told the AP that she is "extremely concerned that the situation on the ground is becoming worse."

An alleged chemical attack near Damascus in August has brought the U.S. at the brink of carrying punitive airstrikes on Syria after the Obama administration concluded that Assad's forces were responsible.

President Barack Obama has been lobbying for international and domestic support for punishing Assad's regime, which the U.S. says fired rockets loaded with the nerve agent sarin on rebel-held areas near Damascus before dawn on Aug. 21, killing hundreds of people.

Obama has called chemical weapons use a "red line." Top administration officials have argued before the Senate and around the world that Assad would take inaction by Washington as a license for further brutality against his people.

So far, however, Obama has won little international backing for action. Among major allies, only France has offered publicly to join the U.S. in a strike.

At the Group of 20 economic summit in St. Petersburg, Obama will later Thursday confront Syria's closest supporter, Russia, as well as foreign leaders skeptical of his call for an international military intervention in Syria.

Moscow and Washington have sharply disagreed over ways to end the Syria bloodshed with Russia firmly supporting Assad's regime and protecting it from punitive actions in the United Nations. The U.S. has backed the opposition and has repeatedly called on Assad to step down. He has refused and the U.S. has been supporting the rebels with non-lethal aid and by training some rebel units in neighboring Jordan.

Russian President Vladimir Putin insists Obama has yet to prove his case for striking Syria, although Putin appeared to have tempered his rhetoric slightly in a pre-summit interview Wednesday with The Associated Press. He said then that he wouldn't rule out backing a U.N. resolution if it can be proved Assad used chemical weapons, as the U.S. has alleged.

EU President Herman Van Rompuy urged U.N. investigators to release information as soon as possible about the chemical weapons attack in Syria so that the international community can decide how to respond.

In unusually strong language, Van Rompuy told reporters in St. Petersburg on Thursday that the Aug. 21 attack "was a blatant violation of international law and a crime against humanity." But, he said, it's too early for a military response.

Pope Francis urged world leaders to abandon the "futile pursuit" of a military solution in Syria and work instead for dialogue and negotiation to end the conflict.

In a letter to Putin, the Group of 20 host, the pope lamented that "one-sided interests" had prevailed in Syria, preventing a peaceful solution and allowing the continued "senseless massacre" of innocents.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/05/syria-battle-maaloula_n_3872906.html

 

[Sanji Himura]

Woe to the land shadowing with wings...

 

[Johnnypenso]

Video has surfaced of rebels executing Syrian soldiers, half naked and lying on the ground. The actual shooting is blacked out in this video, but I'm sure it's on Youtube somewhere uncut. And these are the supposed "good guys" that we're helping by taking out Assad's assets...

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2013/09/05/lv-syria-nyt-execution-shubert.cnn.html

 

[Slash]

Putin is threatening to put up a missle shield in the face of an American attack on Syria...things are heating up kids and now is when the rubber really hits the road for a President. This has all the earmarks of turning into a disaster and a much bigger conflict than anticpated at this point.

http://www.foxnews.com/

I couldn't not find a more appropriate time to post this.

"Woe to you, oh earth and sea
For the Devil sends the Beast with wrath
Because he knows the time is short"

 

[Dennisch]

There are different kind of rebels fighting in Syria.
Those who want democracy. Those who just want Assad out of power. Those who fight just for the fight and probably several other groups.

 

[Dotini]

Here is a report found on non-mainstream media from two apparently reputable journalists. http://www.mintpressnews.com/witnes...supplied-rebels-with-chemical-weapons/168135/

They report identified rebels openly admitted responsibility for the chem attack in Damascus, and provide a wealth of details.

Here is a non-mainstream media story about the above report. http://beforeitsnews.com/middle-eas...ack-to-associated-press-reporter-2453884.html

And here is a definite mainstream media report about a 100 page document from the Russians explaining in forensic detail the rebel's use of chem weapons in an earlier chem attack. http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/09/05/201268/russia-releases-100-page-report.html

Earlier today Vladimir Putin called John Kerry "a liar" with respect to his claims that the Assad regime was responsible for the attack. Later today, a grinning President Obama shook Putin's hand. WTF would a US President shake the hand of a man who just called his Secretary of State a liar?? Somewhere a little bird is chirping - "Cuckoo"! - that Putin knows what he's doing, and Obama doesn't.

A few minutes ago on Fox TV news channel, one of their staff military analysts commented that the administration's intel on this matter is "unraveling". He did not provide follow up.

I sincerely hope the situation does not go up in flames due to the machinations of someone who really should be resting in a rubber-lined room.

Edit:
A video of a rebel claiming to have used chem weapons:http://www.infowars.com/video-syrian-rebel-admits-using-chemical-weapons/

Edit 2:
Representative Alan Grayson, D-Fla, privy to secret briefings, claims the intelligence was manipulated.
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/wa...5/alan-grayson-syria-intelligence-manipulated

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Putin is threatening to put up a missle shield in the face of an American attack on Syria...things are heating up kids and now is when the rubber really hits the road for a President. This has all the earmarks of turning into a disaster and a much bigger conflict than anticpated at this point.

http://www.foxnews.com/

Bush and Obama admin's did the same to him, I can't be surprised if he does the same to us.

There are different kind of rebels fighting in Syria.
Those who want democracy. Those who just want Assad out of power. Those who fight just for the fight and probably several other groups.

Those are the main groups actually that you've just said. The small groups are sub groups to one of the three, however there are some small groups that pretend to be part of other groups just for political end game power.

 

[Omnis]

Video has surfaced of rebels executing Syrian soldiers, half naked and lying on the ground. The actual shooting is blacked out in this video, but I'm sure it's on Youtube somewhere uncut. And these are the supposed "good guys" that we're helping by taking out Assad's assets...

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2013/09/05/lv-syria-nyt-execution-shubert.cnn.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ll-speaks-the-ancient-language-of-Christ.html

The more I see of this ****, the more I think they should just gas those ****ers.

What a hell they have made over there. Such a shame.

 

[sumbrownkid]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ll-speaks-the-ancient-language-of-Christ.html

The more I see of this ****, the more I think they should just gas those ****ers.

What a hell they have made over there. Such a shame.

If you listen carefully, you can hear the body of Saladin turning over in his grave in Damascus.

 

[Dennisch]

Kerry has now said that he wants to wait for the UN to publish their findings.

They really should have thought this one through before running their big mouths. I'll bet Iran will see this as a weakness and we can see a nuclear test in the not so distant future.

 

[Exorcet]

There are a couple of Russian anti-ship missiles, the Moskit and the Sunburn, which are proliferous in the Russian fleet and also sold to client states, which are said to make the aircraft carrier and other large surface vessels essentially obsolete. They fly at wave crest level at supersonic speeds, then violently climb and dive straight down and explode through and out the bottom of the hull. There is no known defense.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS-N-22 <--- This will get you started.

They can probably be hit by late model AIM-120, and any launching vehicle needs to get within strike distance. The F/A-18 totally outclasses the Su-33 and any land based launchers are fair game for B-2, F-22, and stand off weapons.

 

[ExigeEvan]

They can probably be hit by late model AIM-120, and any launching vehicle needs to get within strike distance. The F/A-18 totally outclasses the Su-33 and any land based launchers are fair game for B-2, F-22, and stand off weapons.

"Probably" is the thing.

I certainly wouldn't be happy on a Nimitz Class knowing there's only a "probably" of a successful intercept.