Are intentional taps (little bumps) considered acceptable racing technique?

  • Thread starter Brainhulk
  • 244 comments
  • 22,385 views

Are strategic taps acceptable racing technique?

  • yes, rubbin is racing

    Votes: 161 31.4%

  • yes, but dirty

    Votes: 133 26.0%

  • never, unnacceptable dirty behavior

    Votes: 218 42.6%
  • Total voters
    512
This clip has been the focal point of "intentional bumping" discussions before. It is a real-world lesson of what happens when you intentionally bump someone one too many times.



Both drivers were suspended after the incident, but if you ask me, the porsche driver had every right to be aggressive. He was hit numerous times from behind on purpose. The corvette simply couldn't make a clean pass and wasn't going to accept 2nd place. One bump too many and the porsche said that's enough.
 
I'll take as an example touring cars, wheree bumps and taps are par for the course. I have an online touring car series, and we have had 9 races, with their fair share of bumps, taps, and a few hefty shunts, but's part of the ourse. Me and another driver had a 9 lap bumping battle at High Speed ring at the weekend. Every turn and on the straights we were bumoing barging, but we never took each other off. We were sideways, but we both knew that whilst we could do a lot more deliberate damage, we didn't.

Also, it depends on racing. NASCAR is a sport where bumoing and tapping is allowed, but in open wheelers any kind of move breaks your car and could send you flipping. So it all really depends on the series.

Also, I remember watching that incident at the ALMS on tv. It was Bergmeister in the porsche's fault, because he simply squeezed him into the wall.
 
I try my best to avoid hitting anyone, but sometimes mistakes happen and when they do I apologize... I always race online with penalties on light so that way intentional ramming is penalized, but slight taps aren't. I think that's fair and so does everyone else I've raced with. HotRodKing makes a good point to.
 
In GT5? Absolutely fine. If there's no penalty for it in the game then why should I self-impose an imaginary penalty on my conscience?



You can't argue with results. If you don't like it, and it matters that much to you, find a different game that penalizes this behavior instead of rewarding it as GT5 does. Contrary to internet group-think, the designers (PD) make the game rules, not the majority of poll voters, not the gtplanet.com moderators, and not any real-world racing organizations or rule books. It's a game.
 
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my SLS has been hit from behind and shoved off track twice online.. it was PIT manuvered into the weeds in turn 3 by an FGT on Daytona a little over a month ago, and was straight up rammed from behind by an X2010 on La Sarthe while taking the sweeper after the Dunlop bridge two days ago, i wasnt driving aggressively, both of the offending vehicles couldve easily outcornered or outgunned the relatively lumbering Merc, but no, they nailed it, intentionally. the 🤬 in the X2010 hit the SLS the first time, and then hit it again once it was in the gravel and shoved it farther in. some people are just dumb, if youre gonna hit someone make sure its NOT intentional and save my SLS some grief and an early chassis rebuild
 
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chuyler1
This clip has been the focal point of "intentional bumping" discussions before. It is a real-world lesson of what happens when you intentionally bump someone one too many times.



Both drivers were suspended after the incident, but if you ask me, the porsche driver had every right to be aggressive. He was hit numerous times from behind on purpose. The corvette simply couldn't make a clean pass and wasn't going to accept 2nd place. One bump too many and the porsche said that's enough.
Click to expand...


How is it the Corvette's fault. The Porsche was brake checking him in Turn 11. The Corvette didn't have enough time to react, thus the bump. The Porsche was entirely at fault for the wreck on the front stretch.

But stuff like this is what makes any series of racing exciting. A little contact is fine like what the Corvette did. But intentionally wrecking something, like what the Porsche did, is completely wrong.
 
Pali
How is it the Corvette's fault. The Porsche was brake checking him in Turn 11. The Corvette didn't have enough time to react, thus the bump. The Porsche was entirely at fault for the wreck on the front stretch.

But stuff like this is what makes any series of racing exciting. A little contact is fine like what the Corvette did. But intentionally wrecking something, like what the Porsche did, is completely wrong.
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Watching it over, the Porsche didn't brake check him. The Corvette had ample space going into the turn. He choose to bump into him, the Porsche tried to block him after the bump only to have the Vette try to take him on the inside. Corvette was at fault for the dirty pass and the Porsche is at fault for taking him out.
 
Bonefork
In GT5? Absolutely fine. If there's no penalty for it in the game then why should I self-impose an imaginary penalty on my conscience?



You can't argue with results. If you don't like it, and it matters that much to you, find a different game that penalizes this behavior instead of rewarding it as GT5 does. Contrary to internet group-think, the designers (PD) make the game rules, not the majority of poll voters, not the gtplanet.com moderators, and not any real-world racing organizations or rule books. It's a game.
Click to expand...

You're exactly the sort of driver that makes open lobbies a complete waste of time... fortunately, all we need to do to avoid tossers like you is set up a private room and race with friends.
 
Stotty
You're exactly the sort of driver that makes open lobbies a complete waste of time... fortunately, all we need to do to avoid tossers like you is set up a private room and race with friends.
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I suppose if I played GT5 online, and if I had elitist views on how the game should and should not be played (despite the game's mechanics), I would also make private rooms and complain about my inability to control the will of others to my like-minded friends.

It's not hard to imagine someone, so quick to jump to conclusion and insult, having a hard time enjoying a game with others. That's not this "tosser's" problem; personally, I rarely encounter disappointment playing games online with strangers. It's called social adaptability.
 
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Perhaps if you, and the other members on here who seem to think anything goes when racing on-line, took some time to look around the forum you've joined you would have spotted the GTP rules for on-line racing...

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=111241

I can understand how random kids on-line would have a free for all mentality, but for people taking the time to search out GTP and join up, I would have expected a more mature attitude.

Fortunately for me, I've been a member here for a few years and during that time my PSN friends list has filled up with other like minded racers. Therefore I have no problem finding competition that doesn't involve people who think it's OK to use the rear end of my car to help them brake, or decide it's fine to just stuff it up the inside from miles back.

IMO, anyone who can't abide by the sites on-line rules should be banned from the site... simple as that.
 
Bonefork
I suppose if I played GT5 online, and if I had elitist views on how the game should and should not be played (despite the game's mechanics), I would also make private rooms and complain about my inability to control the will of others to my like-minded friends.

It's not hard to imagine someone, so quick to jump to conclusion and insult, having a hard time enjoying a game with others. That's not this "tosser's" problem; personally, I rarely encounter disappointment playing games online with strangers. It's called social adaptability.
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Fair enough mate but then its not really about having elitist views about how the game should be played, it's really about respecting the people that you play it with and playing it in the right spirit. Your point about it being just a game is well taken, because it is, however there is some pretty obnoxious online behaviour that goes on out there. Sure, PD make the game, not us or anyone else as you point out.

I don't however agree with your point about, "not self-imposing an imaginary penalty on your conscience," (obviously I am paraphrasing there), because the more of us out there trying to make it an enjoyable place to spend our time, rather than abusing a flawed model just to win a bunch of races the better.

The model is flawed, and it does let you get away with some pretty outrageous stuff and drive off into the distance while your opposition flounders around in the gravel or drives off light damage. But really I think the question should be, just because you can, does it necessarily mean you should?

Cheers.
 
Stotty
Perhaps if you, and the other members on here who seem to think anything goes when racing on-line, took some time to look around the forum you've joined you would have spotted the GTP rules for on-line racing...

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=111241

I can understand how random kids on-line would have a free for all mentality, but for people taking the time to search out GTP and join up, I would have expected a more mature attitude.

Fortunately for me, I've been a member here for a few years and during that time my PSN friends list has filled up with other like minded racers. Therefore I have no problem finding competition that doesn't involve people who think it's OK to use the rear end of my car to help them brake, or decide it's fine to just stuff it up the inside from miles back.

IMO, anyone who can't abide by the sites on-line rules should be banned from the site... simple as that.
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Devil's advocate here, but as I understand it, those rules apply to GTP-sponsored races only, unless the definition of "OLR" as "Online League Racing" has escaped me.

Implying that these rules should be followed 24-7 by all users, whether in a GTP room or not, implies such an annoying elitist attitude.

I'll remind people that it is a game - if you don't like the way someone is racing you, don't race him.
 
I grew up with them, so for me I follow the rules every time I'm on the track... I'd want anyone I race with, tagged or not, to see me as a clean and fair racer. Anyone racing with a GTP tag should follow them 100% of the time.

I don't see it as elitist to drive like that, I see it as common courtesy to other people on the track... treat others as you'd like to be treated yourself.
 
darkblade986
Devil's advocate here, but as I understand it, those rules apply to GTP-sponsored races only, unless the definition of "OLR" as "Online League Racing" has escaped me.

Implying that these rules should be followed 24-7 by all users, whether in a GTP room or not, implies such an annoying elitist attitude.

I'll remind people that it is a game - if you don't like the way someone is racing you, don't race him.
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If you're using your GTP_ psn name then you're expected to follow GTP rules at all times.
 
darkblade986
Implying that these rules should be followed 24-7 by all users, whether in a GTP room or not, implies such an annoying elitist attitude.
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The question was posed on this forum, which is composed of GTP racers, most of whom are part of leagues. Most of us race using these rules every night of the week whether it is a sanctioned event or not. We expect others that join us to do the same. We can punt, pit maneuver, and bump turn if we wanted to (afterall, it doesn't require much skill)...but we choose not to because we understand that other people are behind the wheel of the other cars on the track and winning takes second place to having a good time night after night...and its more of a challenge to get around someone without contact.

So if you want to punt and bump drivers, no one here is going to stop you, after all the game allows it...but when you do it, don't be surprised when you aren't invited back to race with the same people the next evening.
 
That's the thing there is more people racing online that don't care about proper racing etiquette than those that do. If they get kicked they will find another room to do it in until it is time to call it quits they will keep finding rooms.
 
When I play two player, my friends and I usually play a little bumper cars, and I'll tap some slow driver infront of me online (move over people are racing!) but slamming into some is bad policy, not only can you cause them to wipe out you can spin your self out wildly as well.
 
chuyler1
So if you want to punt and bump drivers, no one here is going to stop you, after all the game allows it...but when you do it, don't be surprised when you aren't invited back to race with the same people the next evening.
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Fair enough, but I would like to point out that everyone who yells at us for saying "little taps" are fine are treating it as if we chose to ignore the brake pedal altogether when we give you a push.

NONE of us have advocated the kind of maneuvers that involve putting someone on the brink of wrecking or being out of control. All we have said is that a slight push by a faster car to hasten a pass on a non-yielding slower car is acceptable. Go watch a NASCAR race at Martinsville, Bristol, or Richmond and you'll see it time and again, especially in the last laps. Someone will get right up on the rear bumper of the car in front of them, often actually tapping it slightly, in order to move that car up and out of the way. AND THEN PULL AWAY, indicating they were obviously faster.

That video of the Corvette and Audi is the perfect example. The Audi would not yield the position to the obviously faster Corvette, so the Corvette helped him out of the way without actually wrecking him.


Brake checking is another issue altogether. You're actively going out of your way to cause damaging contact in that case.
 
How hard do you need to hit someone to consider it a punt rather than a tap?

If you get your 'tap' wrong, and the other driver spins off do you then wait for them to re-join the track and conceed the place back?

If you're faster you should be able to pass cleanly. And if the win matters so much to you that you need to make contact and ruin someone elses lap to pass you're a sad person.
 
Tell that to the people racing for a living and not those of us just racing for the sport of it.

People are going to have different opinions on the topic depending on which series they follow the most. I follow NASCAR with all of its beating and banging, and I imagine you follow Formula 1 or some other open-wheel / highly regulated series where such bumping is less approved of.

There's no reason to call me a "sad person." I get enjoyment from a close race, and I consider contact part of racing. If I haven't done everything reasonable within my power to try and win the race, then I haven't raced - I've cruised.

I've made my statements on the matter. I'm walking away from this conversation. There will never be a consensus - there will only be arguing.



Though the fact that 57% of the voters at the moment say that contact is acceptable is rather telling.
 
I give up.

And I'll leave open lobbies to the punters... because that's what the 57% of people answering this poll are... punters.
 
Stotty
How hard do you need to hit someone to consider it a punt rather than a tap?

If you get your 'tap' wrong, and the other driver spins off do you then wait for them to re-join the track and conceed the place back?

If you're faster you should be able to pass cleanly. And if the win matters so much to you that you need to make contact and ruin someone elses lap to pass you're a sad person.
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i find that sometimes a light tap in just the wrong spot can do a car in just as well as a hard punt, my 599 has taken out two (thankfully AI) GT-Rs this way.. actually the first one took itself out.. it cut across the 599s path and its rear bumper clipped the 599s front ever so slightly.. and then its back end snapped one way, and then back the other.. before the car itself finally went spinning off to the grass, but you get the point, wrong place, wrong time, youre done
 
Eskimojos
it's really about respecting the people that you play it with and playing it in the right spirit.
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Agreed. That respect goes both ways, if the lobby wants to play bumper cars you can either bump along with them or excuse yourself:
Stotty
that's what the 57% of people answering this poll are... punters.
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R-e-s-p-e-c-t: love you make = love you take.

Eskimojos
The model is flawed [...] just because you can, does it necessarily mean you should?
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"Should" was never discussed.

You (and many others) say the model is 'flawed,' but it was created, packaged and distributed that way intentionally and iteratively over FIVE successful versions. It's Pavlovian, the benefits from bumping cars becomes a learned behavior for many players.

You can't blame the players for the game's rules. (A.K.A. "Don't hate the playa', hate the game.")

In the game I'm currently playing, even small collisions will ruin your car; compounded they'll take you out of the race entirely. If this is a hot issue for some GT5 players, perhaps they're playing the wrong game; almost all other racing games have damage.

chuyler1
The question was posed on this forum, which is composed of GTP racers
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OP makes no distinction concerning GTP; this is a general GT5 inquiry and elicits a general response.
 
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GT5 is not NASCAR or F1, why do you people keep using those examples?
Yes, it has both. And irl NASCAR bumps will happen, irl F1 they will not.

But, in GT5 they shouldn't!
 
I wouldn't think too many people would get upset by a little pushing and shoving in NASCAR cars on the superspeedways, or probably even on other tracks in an all-NASCAR room. It just kind of comes with the territory. But if you drive like it's Bristol when in a super twitchy exotic going 165mph around Schwedenkreuz, expect to get an earful. It's partly common sense, and partly a vast unknown due to how the game has a little bit of everything(and everyone).

It'd be nice if there was a bit more room for hosts to put some basic comments about the room somewhere, level of contact could be easily part of it. I don't think NOrcNOcutLTcntUS/EUonlWINpkRG would even fit in the title, let alone anybody being able to tell what it actually means. And it's probably not even descriptive enough.
 
Rubbin's racin'.

Its called Bump 'n' Run in the States and look, there is no such thing as 'acceptable driving behaviour.'
 

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