Are intentional taps (little bumps) considered acceptable racing technique?

[dhandeh]

so you read only the last line of my post?!

as for the bolded text, it sounds like you're trying to win the argument "at all costs"

contact is inevitable in most forms of racing. a tap isn't going to cause carnage, furthermore my opinion is based upon real racing. haven't done a stitch of online racing.

in F1, completely agree with you and see your point - those cars are a)too fast, b) open wheel and c) not built structurally to withstand any contact.

but in most other forms of racing its pretty accepted. Hell, its allowed in horse racing.

I suppose it could be a region thing, in the UK, f1 is the most popular racing format, in the US, I take it NASCAR is the most popular type. It's what your use to seeing on tv and maybe subliminal or deliberately replicate it in the game.

I race online in the hope of matching my skill to someone else's, and whoever has the highest skill level will win. I do not count intentional tapping as a skill. A tap in this game normally results in worse results than a tap in real life, hence why it shouldn't be done

 

[aland18]

I wish F1 was bigger here in the states personally but I see your point.

As for online, my take is that it depends on what makes contact where:

nose of opponents car in my door? obviously cheap.

a little door to door rub, doesn't bother me that much.

But we'll see...

 

[RobGT81]

...a tap isn't going to cause carnage....

The split second before you tap someone you cannot prove this, that is why its dangerous and shouldn't be done, especially in the real world.

 

[dhandeh]

I wish F1 was bigger here in the states personally but I see your point.

As for online, my take is that it depends on what makes contact where:

nose of opponents car in my door? obviously cheap.

a little door to door rub, doesn't bother me that much.

But we'll see...

Door to door rub, isn't normally intentional as long as that all there is, but as you said nose in the door is cheap and intentional. Which in my opinion, isn't on. After all its a game which is meant to be fun, and getting rammed by unnatural physics into wall isn't fun.

 

[Radracing]

Intentional never! unintentional is okay but will need to give back position if gained from the tap. That is basic online racing rules with GTPlanet and I'm hoping any other forms of online racing. Although that would be in a perfect world. In the real world there is always going to be someone out there who gets desperate enough just to win that they will do it intentionally and that kinda takes the sportsmanship out of the game.

 

[Morgoth_666]

Unintentional bumping happens, driving side by side or the leading car slowing down/accelerating slightly better or sooner or later than the trailing car expects. No harm no foul.

Intentionally bumping to try to rattle an opponent or to physically unsettle their car and create space for you to pass is dirty pool, period. The only time an intentional bump might be acceptable is in a nice straight line, either to help both cars go faster or to delay your pass attempt(although in the latter case you probably should just lift until getting to the place you want to go for it, pushing will just take away your ability to slipstream so you'll have to drop back anyway). If the other driver doesn't appreciate it then I wouldn't do it in a straight line either, it's not like we're getting paid for this.

Easy rule of thumb: If you bump, intentionally or not, and then get an opportunity to go past, you shouldn't. Obviously the specifics of rules like this would be up to the series(in online terms, the host). If they don't specifically state that some(or any) form of rough driving is acceptable, it isn't.

 

[chuyler1]

If you are close enough to bump someone in a turn intentionally, as in you didn't just over shoot the turn and need their car to slow you down, then you are close enough to draft the driver and pass clean on the straight. There is no need to intentionally bump drivers mid corner except to maliciously take the position. It is unsportsmanlike and would get you flagged in a real race.

 

[Anghammarad]

Ok then the real question is, how do you drive defensively as you describe when 99% of online players won't slow down and TRY to get around you, but rather will actually SUCCEED in going straight through you. Don't get me wrong, I like to drive just as you describe, but its an impossibility with most of the knobs out there that think they're going around Monza in a dodgem car.

It's quite simple really. Only join lounges with hosts you know are clean. Or the ones found here on GTPlanet online racing or any of the other serious racing sites.

 

[barmyclown]

As other people have said unintentional bumping does happen, and if it does being polite about it is generally ok, Ie heavy tap to the rear becase you missed your braking point etc. could be forgiven if you decide not to gain advantage from the ensuing Chaos.

For those that think you can tap to let someone know your faster than them, if your faster than them overtake. If you cannot overtake then you are not faster than them. It is up to you as the lower placed driver to pass, the lead driver is allowed to move over to defend his position but not allowed to weave dangerously.

Dangerous overtaking manouvers from 6 car lengths back in braking zones is usually considered not good form, but a good execued overtake attempt in a braking zone will usually end up with both cars side by side in the corner, possibly swapping a bit of paint if they a closed wheel vehicles, and whoever as the greatest traction/speed coming out of the corner wins. On bumpy narrow tracks with lots of camber changes that unsettle the cars, Nordschleife for instance. overtaking becomes even more difficult as the cars can move around a bit more, and driving defensively becomes a lot easier.

The only time that a slower car has to move over for a faster car, is when the faster car laps the slower car. Then a blue flag will be shown.

But online you have to watch out for lag spikes, as this can make cars move erratically, but if this starts tohappen the game should compensate by turning the collision off for the player showing the erratic behaviour.

 

[Morgoth_666]

...

The only time that a slower car has to move over for a faster car, is when the faster car laps the slower car. Then a blue flag will be shown.

...

And that never applies in GT5 either, at least not with penalties on, as lapped cars all turn into ghosts. Which is really irritating if two lapped cars are fighting for position, since they can then drive right through one another while the leaders are near them. Well done yet again PD, and thanks for not making it an option.

But I digress...

 

[chuyler1]

For any race where lapping may occur, I always turn off penalties and make sure off-track grip is set to real. Drivers can still cut corners with no penalty but if you pick tracks that don't have cheater corners for your long races it works out OK.

 

[Metfanant]

I think some of you guys need to even do a better job of watching F1 races...even at the pinnacle of racing there is contact between cars in turns...

just watching practice and qualifying last night on SPEED you can see so many of the highlights from the first two races where drivers literally DIVE into corners underneath other drivers and make contact because of their passing attempts...and other times the only reason contact is avoided is because the car on the outside smartly gives up their position and ends up being pushed wide by the guy diving to the inside...

i think there are a lot of people here that have a very "perfect world" view of racing that just doesn't exist in real life...

 

[Morgoth_666]

As has been said. Contact happens when racers are racing, but you must try to avoid it, and intentionally doing it is dirty. The thing is, there's a difference between a highly trained professional who's livelihood(and life) has depended on racing for years saying "I tried not to hit him but I just couldn't avoid it" and Joe Lay-Z-Boy saying the same thing. Often times when the gamer says it all they really mean is "I wish you hadn't been there, then I wouldn't have hit you."

The original question is INTENTIONAL bumping(my favorite real-world term for it is "opening up his line"), the specific rules of which vary somewhat in real life but generally is not allowed, particularly if it's more than a small 3-5mph nudge. No one in F1 intentionally hits anyone else(unless they are trying to take them out) as those cars are so sensitive aerodynamically, and so fragile. There's no telling which car will get hurt the most.

 

[Metfanant]

As has been said. Contact happens when racers are racing, but you must try to avoid it, and intentionally doing it is dirty. The thing is, there's a difference between a highly trained professional who's livelihood(and life) has depended on racing for years saying "I tried not to hit him but I just couldn't avoid it" and Joe Lay-Z-Boy saying the same thing. Often times when the gamer says it all they really mean is "I wish you hadn't been there, then I wouldn't have hit you."

The original question is INTENTIONAL bumping(my favorite real-world term for it is "opening up his line"), the specific rules of which vary somewhat in real life but generally is not allowed, particularly if it's more than a small 3-5mph nudge. No one in F1 intentionally hits anyone else(unless they are trying to take them out) as those cars are so sensitive aerodynamically, and so fragile. There's no telling which car will get hurt the most.

of course nobody in F1 is making intentional contact...but you can certainly see guys that dive deep into corners and put themselves in situations where the other guy has no choice but to leave his line to avoid the contact...

 

[Eskimojos]

of course nobody in F1 is making intentional contact...but you can certainly see guys that dive deep into corners and put themselves in situations where the other guy has no choice but to leave his line to avoid the contact...

The most obvious difference being that even though they are being aggressive and taking the inside line deep, they are still able to slow up enough to take the corner without needing to use the outside car's bodywork. Massive difference.

 

[Cauchy]

I am appalled by some of the responses here. If you're faster than someone else then you shouldn't be behind him in the first place, as you should've out qualified him, so don't try and use that excuse. Even if you do win by wrecking, or bumping someone, the resulting win will be hollow.

Just because you are slightly faster than someone else, in terms of lap times, does not mean that you deserve the position. In f1, before the addition of kers and drs, in order to pass you needed to be around 1.5 seconds faster per lap.

It is one matter if you accidentally bump someone (be it due to lag or whatever), but in such a case any position gained should be given back, but to intentionally do so is very dirty and I will not play with people who do such things. Feel free to disagree, just don't get mad when you get booted from my room...

 

[Metfanant]

I am appalled by some of the responses here. If you're faster than someone else then you shouldn't be behind him in the first place, as you should've out qualified him, so don't try and use that excuse. Even if you do win by wrecking, or bumping someone, the resulting win will be hollow.

nope, winning is winning...at the end of the day what else matters?

and the fact that your even anything approaching "appalled" by the responses about racing in a VIDEO game is quite appalling...

It is one matter if you accidentally bump someone (be it due to lag or whatever), but in such a case any position gained should be given back,

if there is accidental contact it is just that, accidental...its part of racing...next time take a better line and don't give the guy behind you any room...if he gains a position because of accidental contact then i see no reason to give it back...

but to intentionally do so is very dirty and I will not play with people who do such things. Feel free to disagree, just don't get mad when you get booted from my room...

And I would say don't get mad when nobody wants to join your room

 

[DK]

Just ask Shingo Shoji on his opinion.

 

[chuyler1]

Metfanant, punting and bumping may be acceptable in your rooms but most of the people on this forum follow the GTP OLR rulebook. You'd be booted pretty fast from one of our rooms if you are under the assumption that winning is winning no matter the cost.

And for the record, the room I host is full every night with clean no-contact racers. We allow newcomers but if I hear more than one complaint about someone's driving they are booted and removed from my list.

 

[ZR1fan]

i keep it clean, but admittedly in the drift rooms i have problems, because i find i can hold much faster slides with much more slip angle than other guys on the track.. i try my best to either tuck in the cars line or loosen it to get around said slower vehicle, or in some cases ill stop the car all together mid slide.. but sometimes it doesnt work (my Camaro club tailed a Toms Supra yesterday mid slide.. didnt upset the Camaro, but because it is so much heavier than the Supra it hit, the poor supra got whacked into a pretty ugly spin across the track into the gravel).. drifting is fun, but not so much on a cluttered Tsukuba online room with people spinning off left and right

 

[RobGT81]

Metfanant, punting and bumping may be acceptable in your rooms but most of the people on this forum follow the GTP OLR rulebook. You'd be booted pretty fast from one of our rooms if you are under the assumption that winning is winning no matter the cost.

And for the record, the room I host is full every night with clean no-contact racers. We allow newcomers but if I hear more than one complaint about someone's driving they are booted and removed from my list.

👍

 

[D00msday]

Only when it's a drag race to the finish line.

 

[Metfanant]

Metfanant, punting and bumping may be acceptable in your rooms but most of the people on this forum follow the GTP OLR rulebook. You'd be booted pretty fast from one of our rooms if you are under the assumption that winning is winning no matter the cost.

And for the record, the room I host is full every night with clean no-contact racers. We allow newcomers but if I hear more than one complaint about someone's driving they are booted and removed from my list.

i don't care who's rules you follow lol. It is a video game.

 

[sporkafife]

I think it depends on what sort of race you are in. For example if you are racing in a proper, serious online race in a group of GT500 cars on the Nordshleife, the tiniest tap on the rear of another car in the Flugplatz-Schwedenkreuz area is deadly and can easily end up in one or both cars flying off the track, essentially ruining their entire race. Contact here would be pretty unacceptable, as stated by GTP's OLR.

However, if it's a friendly race in a bunch of low powered Kei cars around the Autumn Ring, it would probably be completely acceptable to scrape the side of another car while going round a corner to try and take their place, in fact, I would say it was a pretty boring Kei car race without some bumping and scraping (as long as you're familiar with the fact the opponents will probably do it back to you! And always make sure you're familiar with the room's rules)

Besides having a bit of fun with friends, it's probably safe to say that if contact is avoidable it's best to avoid it 👍

 

[Stotty]

... nope, winning is winning...at the end of the day what else matters?

... if there is accidental contact it is just that, accidental...its part of racing...next time take a better line and don't give the guy behind you any room...if he gains a position because of accidental contact then i see no reason to give it back...

So where do you draw the line... what's fair and what isn't?

A gentle nudge on turn that unsettles your opponents car and allows you to pass?

Diving for the inside under brakes, not quite making it and hitting your opponent in the side, knocking them out but allowing you to continue?

Using the rear of your opponents car as a braking aid?

Once you allow even slight contact how do you decide what's allowable and what's not? In real racing there are mechanical consequences for making contact... in GT5 there are none. In real racing there are race stewards, who can penalise drivers for inconsiderate driving... in GT5 there are none.

That's why any decent racer abides by the OLR rules adopted by all the major GT Forums, and why all other decent racing games have the same no contact rules.

 

[RufusGonePunk]

I am appalled by some of the responses here. If you're faster than someone else then you shouldn't be behind him in the first place, as you should've out qualified him, so don't try and use that excuse. Even if you do win by wrecking, or bumping someone, the resulting win will be hollow.

I take it you don't watch a lot of motorsport other than F1? There are several series where the field will start the race in the order they finished the last or have a type of reverse grid system. Which means a lot of the time your outright pace over one lap doesn't mean much. Even in China last weekend Webber made a misjudgement and Schumacher wasn't quick enough in qualifying, which meant both of them were behind 'slower' cars at the start of the race. And Hamilton only had one run in Q3 to save tyres, so he didn't get the fully potential out of his car, but ultimately had the best race pace. Which means that using it as an excuse is very legitimate.

And to those who said that people who use dirty tactics are the onlys at the back after lap 1, I'd be interested to see what you make of Senna (or Rosberg, depending on your loyalties) in this video:



And Schumacher never was the quickest back in his day

 

[Mr. S]

Oh and one other thing. I race with the Steering wheel and I've noticed that when someone taps your bumper it's way easier to Adjust than with the DS3. I've had guys tap my bumper and I'll just tap my brakes on em and they'll lose control. Also I noticed usually the more out of control collision Causers are usually on DS3's.

Kids don't spend 200+ quid on wheels. That's why.

 

[djinline]

Kids don't spend 200+ quid on wheels. That's why.

That's right, their parents do.

 

[HotRodKing]

I believe that if you tap someone and they spin out, slam into the wall, or go way off into the grass/sand that it is unacceptable. If I am racing someone of the same skill as me, I will sometimes give them little taps to get them lose and maybe sneak by, but not spin them out. thats not cool. if they spin out, I'll give the position back

 

[st1sj]

I take it you don't watch a lot of motorsport other than F1? There are several series where the field will start the race in the order they finished the last or have a type of reverse grid system. Which means a lot of the time your outright pace over one lap doesn't mean much. Even in China last weekend Webber made a misjudgement and Schumacher wasn't quick enough in qualifying, which meant both of them were behind 'slower' cars at the start of the race. And Hamilton only had one run in Q3 to save tyres, so he didn't get the fully potential out of his car, but ultimately had the best race pace. Which means that using it as an excuse is very legitimate.

And to those who said that people who use dirty tactics are the onlys at the back after lap 1, I'd be interested to see what you make of Senna (or Rosberg, depending on your loyalties) in this video:



And Schumacher never was the quickest back in his day

Great clip. Never seen that before. Rosberg was not quite along side Senna, so Senna had the right of way, in my opinion. More interesting was the pit crew--no helmut, no gloves, short sleeves! It seemed like bunch of guys just walked on to service the car. And the lollipop man...