Are intentional taps (little bumps) considered acceptable racing technique?

[eran0004]

If the intention of the bump is to unsettle the car then it's defenitely not ok. Contact in curves is only okay if you're side by side and attempting to hold your line through a corner, not attempting to push someone out of the track or using the contact as an adantage to be able to make a pass.

Contact to the rear of a car should never happen, especially not in curves because of the risk of a spin which would terminate the driver's chance to win and also could clog up the track and be a penalty for everyone behind. IRL it could also cause serious accidents, and although GT5 is not reality it would still be nice if the rules were as real as possible. The only time contact to the rear may be allowed is on long fast straights and if the purpose is to try and gain speed for both you and the car in front of you, by reducing the impact of wind resistance. But even then you will have to be extremely careful, it should not be a bump cause even the smallest tap at high speeds can send a car sideways straight into the barriers, it should just be like a train connecting, nothing more. You must also make sure before the race that such maneuvers are allowed.

But most of all it's not fair play. Motor racing is a gentleman sport and cheating and foul play should be receiving punishment by crushing. Even if it's a slower car ahead of you you should always try to make a pass in a clean way. No tapping what so ever.

Of course it doesn't work online, because there's always someone who will try and gain some benefits by being a jerk on the track. It's up to every driver to drive as legitimate as possible, I think it's more fun to end last in a race that was run in a fair way by everyone involved, than to win a race that was just about foul play from start to finish. I hope I'm not the only one...

 

[phil bell]

As long as you don't knock the lead car off line or mess up their composure it's ok.Contact will happen,no one is perfect after all.
And it's nice to watch in replays,put's more pressure on the guy in front.I sometimes flash my lights twice or thrice for the same reason.

 

[Exorcet]

Dive bombing a car in front of you who is faster than you because you can't pass him any other way is not.

This is what I was referring to. When people cut the Monza chicane or almost catch you down Fuji straight but don't quite make it and get all aggressive thinking they have the right to pass, they don't.

 

[Knelly]

Bottom line seems to be (which I agree with), is that in some forms it's acceptable / expected, and others it just can't happen.

NASCAR / Touring Cars / V8, even GT1 etc etc, I challenge you to find a race where it doesn't happen intentionally to gain position (nudging someone in a corner for example to take them, not off circuit but off line)

Come to F1, F2, GP2 or any Le Mans or Single Seater vehicle, and all it will do is cause damage (Alonso on Hamilton over the weekend springs to mind).

Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that it's not skill. I completely disagree, and to do it right (speed / place etc) takes a lot of skill indeed.

 

[Exorcet]

I'll do it on purpose to let them know that I'm consistently faster than them and they should provide more room to let me pass. If I'm tapping them after 4-5 turns, they usually get the point. I could make the pass but may result in more contact since some courses are bumpy and people are all over the track. In other courses, people refuse to deviate from the racing line to let faster traffic by. Rather than risk a collision with them, I'll hang back until I have a clean pass or until they move over.

I don't think being faster is enough to warrant a pass. The lead driver "owns" his position. the trailing driver must take it. Or else, it's just a time trial. If the guy in front of you is slow, you should just wait for an opportunity to set up a pass. Moving him over is cheating.

Contact should never be intentional.

 

[zippy_the_cat]

Bottom line seems to be (which I agree with), is that in some forms it's acceptable / expected, and others it just can't happen.

NASCAR / Touring Cars / V8, even GT1 etc etc, I challenge you to find a race where it doesn't happen intentionally to gain position (nudging someone in a corner for example to take them, not off circuit but off line)

Come to F1, F2, GP2 or any Le Mans or Single Seater vehicle, and all it will do is cause damage (Alonso on Hamilton over the weekend springs to mind).

Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that it's not skill. I completely disagree, and to do it right (speed / place etc) takes a lot of skill indeed.

10-4 to all of the above, although I'd note that the various touring car series have different philosophies on this. The BTCC seems to welcome contact, while the WTCC and DTM don't. NASCAR is all about contact, but even there it at times can be taken too far. There was one race late in his career where Earnhardt blatantly punted someone and got a shower of boos from the fans all the way to victory lane. Not sure what was so different that time because he'd spent two decades pounding on other cars.

I try to race clean online, and will do likewise in A spec if the AI plays nice. I've been punted a few times by the AI -- most notably in the new Lamborghini seasonal -- and once that happens it's game on as far as I'm concerned.

 

[bulldawg_qw]

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[bulldawg_qw]

if I'm heading for the rear quarter whilst trying the same move I'll always back off 'cause you're always going to spin them

If its the last lap though they're going for a ride. I ain't gonna back down in that case.

 

[Anghammarad]

If I'm behind a guy on the last lap and I've haven't been able to get around him you better believe he'll be meeting the chrome horn if it means gaining a position before the checkers. There's nothing wrong with pushing somebody out of the way or running them high through the middle of a turn.

So what you're actually saying is that you think you have the right to run someone off the track because you are not good enough to pass him cleanly.

 

[lbsf1]

If you compare this game to real racing series, then whether or not bumping is allowed depends on the rules of the series.

NASCAR allows bumps.

SCCA does not.

FIA does not.

SCORE allows it during off road competition.

About diving into a corner under another car...both FIA and SCCA say you must give racing room to the opponent. Racing room is one car width (plus a little).

Diving into a corner under an opponent in this game is not a fair maneuver because of the visibility issues. I think you either make the pass between the braking zone and the corner, or you have to back off and let the other car through.

Of course, if everyone had the ability to use multiple monitor setups, the visibility issues would be reduced and corner diving would be acceptable. But that requires everyone to buy 3-5 TVs, 3-5 PS3s, and 3-5 copies of GT5.

OFFICIALY the CIK don't allow it however you arn't punished for it aslong as it doesn't hit others off, and if you arn't punished then its seen as allowed.

Oh yeah, the btcc don't mind it at all either.

 

[RobGT81]

You should just do your best not to bump anyone ever even if it means you getting off the gas, if your the car behind then its your fault whatever 95% of the time, if you cant overtake cleanly then thats your issue not the car infront, just because he is driving slower laps doesnt mean he isnt an expert in defensive lines, maybe he has car issues protecting the tyres or something. NASCAR only allows bumps because the fans demand it. Single seaters/open wheeled cars should never be intentionally bumping each other because of the safety issues. There is also a cost, safety and reliability issue with bumping your car into someone elses.

 

[abaxas]

How about taps from accidental early braking?

Your behind someone, they brake too early (london 1st corner is the best example). Who is to blame there?

Must be a mix of the two.

 

[bulldawg_qw]

So what you're actually saying is that think you have the right to run someone off the track because you are not good enough to pass him cleanly.

Dale Earnhardt said it best after he bumped a guy out of the way to win a race back in the '80s. When asked why he wrecked the guy he said "It pays more to win." Nuff said right there.

 

[bSUPERSPORT]

How about taps from accidental early braking?

Your behind someone, they brake too early (london 1st corner is the best example). Who is to blame there?

Must be a mix of the two.

You tell me son, It can't be no mix, its either someone or no one .

 

[veyron1001]

I do it to blockers. Mostly I crash them out as 10 racers behind you shouldnt have to suffer with 80% throttle because you cant drive fast. Maybe when people actually let faster cars pass, then I will be less aggressive.

 

[aland18]

maybe we should ask Danica Patrick

 

[PAWEL17]

How about taps from accidental early braking?

Your behind someone, they brake too early (london 1st corner is the best example). Who is to blame there?

Must be a mix of the two.

That you have to be really careful of, because alot of people have different braking zones, depending on their car choice, and courage. It happens to me alot, in that case, people need to be weary, as to who's fault it is, i'm gonna have to go with the driver following, based on Real life road rules, and my comment above.

 

[PAWEL17]

You tell me son, It can't be no mix, its either someone or no one .

How about giving us your opinion.

*sorry for double post, i forgot to edit.

 

[bSUPERSPORT]

How about giving us your opinion.

*sorry for double post, i forgot to edit.

The fact is that theres always a risk of contact going into the first corner, whether its intentional or not.

 

[United6694]

I think it's ok, just race craft, like drafting

 

[PAWEL17]

The fact is that theres always a risk of contact going into the first corner, whether its intentional or not.

Really!?...i did not know that.

 

[bSUPERSPORT]

Really!?...i did not know that.

Dont worry, you know now.

 

[Avaruusnuija]

Aaaagh. Reading this makes me sick.
The logic seems to go like this:
Mister X is driving his car Z which is faster than opponent's car Y.
Since opponent in car Y is aware of the situation and drives defensive line to compensate the lack of power in his car, it gives Mister X the right to ram him off the road.

HOW CAN YOU COME TO THIS CONCLUSION PEOPLE?!

 

[aland18]

Aaaagh. Reading this makes me sick.
The logic seems to go like this:
Mister X is driving his car Z which is faster than opponent's car Y.
Since opponent in car Y is aware of the situation and drives defensive line to compensate the lack of power in his car, it gives Mister X the right to ram him off the road.

HOW CAN YOU COME TO THIS CONCLUSION PEOPLE?!

this is unacceptable.

however, said defensive driver should be prepared to deal with some offense. if you are so concerned with contact* then why not do timed lap racing?

*"contact" being the operative word, not "bumper cars"

 

[Avaruusnuija]

I'm not afraid of contact myself, but if you have faster car, just wait for a little straight and that's it. You're past the slower car usually.

 

[darkblade986]

We're not saying he has the right to push him off the road, he has the right to gently remove him from his line.


If you go back to that video of the GT race at Laguna Seca (2009), what we're talking about is that very gentle bump going into the hairpin. NOT the subsequent spin. Both cars remained perfectly in control, the Corvette (which if you watch replays of their two laps prior is OBVIOUSLY faster AND was run off the road by the Porche before) forces the Porche to run just a little wider than he wants and he takes the inside and makes the pass.

We are not advocating dive-bombing, either to pass a car or to hit a car, or to turn into another car to force them off the driving surface. We're advocating a little shoving to contest a specific plot of land. If you can drive into the turns a little harder anyways and the driver in front of you is going to slow down more, if you can give him a gentle, controlled shove that displaces him enough for you to make the pass, that's fine.



And I bring up the point that everyone has a different idea of what "racing" is. Us Americans (and I'd imagine a good portion of British) believe the "rubbin's racing" mentality from our forms of racing where it's acceptable in moderation - namely, NASCAR and British Touring Car. The rest of you are arguing about Formula 1 and other Open-Wheel cars which are designed so much for performance that they ignore durability and would shatter at the slightest contact. Of course bumping isn't allowed in those series.


There's no reason for anyone to get infuriated that this is even a point of conversation.

 

[aland18]

we're not saying he has the right to push him off the road, he has the right to gently remove him from his line.


If you go back to that video of the gt race at laguna seca (2009), what we're talking about is that very gentle bump going into the hairpin. Not the subsequent spin. Both cars remained perfectly in control, the corvette (which if you watch replays of their two laps prior is obviously faster and was run off the road by the porche before) forces the porche to run just a little wider than he wants and he takes the inside and makes the pass.

We are not advocating dive-bombing, either to pass a car or to hit a car, or to turn into another car to force them off the driving surface. We're advocating a little shoving to contest a specific plot of land. If you can drive into the turns a little harder anyways and the driver in front of you is going to slow down more, if you can give him a gentle, controlled shove that displaces him enough for you to make the pass, that's fine.



And i bring up the point that everyone has a different idea of what "racing" is. Us americans (and i'd imagine a good portion of british) believe the "rubbin's racing" mentality from our forms of racing where it's acceptable in moderation - namely, nascar and british touring car. The rest of you are arguing about formula 1 and other open-wheel cars which are designed so much for performance that they ignore durability and would shatter at the slightest contact. Of course bumping isn't allowed in those series.


There's no reason for anyone to get infuriated that this is even a point of conversation.

qft.

 

[bSUPERSPORT]

How can it be it affects where the car goes.

 

[Avaruusnuija]

If you go back to that video of the GT race at Laguna Seca (2009), what we're talking about is that very gentle bump going into the hairpin. NOT the subsequent spin. Both cars remained perfectly in control, the Corvette (which if you watch replays of their two laps prior is OBVIOUSLY faster AND was run off the road by the Porche before) forces the Porche to run just a little wider than he wants and he takes the inside and makes the pass.

The Corvette did not touch the Porsche, if you're talking about that one which ends with a crash.

 

[Derrict]

I'll do it on purpose to let them know that I'm consistently faster than them and they should provide more room to let me pass. If I'm tapping them after 4-5 turns, they usually get the point..... QUOTE]

If you're really that much faster and that much of a better racer then you should be able to deviate off the given racing line and make a clean pass. The fact that you're telling everyone to "move over" by bumping them really means you're not as fast as you think nor as good of a driver as you believe. If you really want to become a better and faster driver then practice making clean passes in smart places without having to be on the racing line. Then you'll really be a faster driver especially when you're on the prefered racing line.

When you do low PP races, you will have 5-8 cars within 1 second of each other. There is simply no room. The slow cars are either ignorant to know that they're slow or they're blocking on purpose.

You guys make it sound like a little tap is going to make a nuclear plant explode. When you're drafting and someone comes up from behind, you aren't going to unsettle the vehicle but you will know they're behind you. When you're drafting and late-braking with a group of 4-5 cars behind you while deviating from the racing line, most people that race online knows what will happen. The guy in the front won't shy away from the racing line and they'll drive right into you even though you have the inside line and the slight edge, just not enough to pass 100% clean. If the guy on the outside doesn't take you out, someone from behind will overcook the corner and plow into the rear of the others, taking you out any way.

People need to get off their high horse of how awesome they are because they're 100% clean online. They only time clean racing works if you're in a room with others that are decent and good enough to do it. Otherwise, you're in a room with a wide range of skill and it'll do you no good.