- 2,229
- MI
gross
Assetto Corsa 2 Will be Called "Assetto Corsa Evo", Coming 2024
- Thread starter GTPNewsWire
- 717 comments
- 146,726 views
- 1,790
- Mtl
As a guy who limits gaming to console, anything added vs ac1 will be a plus for me most probably.
Would i like added content, maybe,,but not added problems, messing about, and having to test from innumerable mods.
Would i like added content, maybe,,but not added problems, messing about, and having to test from innumerable mods.
- 3,942
- Netherlands
- skazz-race
- skazzracer
You have avoided a whole lot of pain over the years. rFactor, rFactor 2 and AC in particular were so full of floods of mods that searching for the good stuff was a considerable time investment. You need a certain mindset to spend hours each week digging through simracing news in order to find mods worth your time, and even then many of the "better" ones can be quite a let down.
Now there are some great mods around, but that's a very small percentage. At some point I found myself preferring the scope and polish of ACC over AC, because you get consistent top quality (tracks, GT cars, graphics, AI, sounds, realism) and you don't have to care about mods, just the content of the game (and all those DLC packs). So while AC1 was bare-bones on the console, ACC was a full and legitimate equal on console to the PC version.
In that respect, Kunos needs to give AC Evo enough content to follow on from ACC on the consoles, while maintaining the much improved visuals and controller support that ACC gave us over AC1. Otherwise they are pretty much limiting their market to Steam (modders) only, which would have severe financial impact for them.
- 299
- way ahead of you, leaving you in the pixie dust
Exactly, frustration free access to simple community voting up and down and tagging community made mods is critical for c++ :: Car Passion Platform
Plus with PCs RECALL spying on everyone, console's like the PS5 are much more secure and financially smart for competitive online racing and avoiding cheaters. If they want players to feel it is a fair and just sports racing, PC is where that becomes a guarantee cheat fest. The amount of exploits alone in game problems, like qualifying out lap pit lane weaving, are already too common and require significant investments and fixes and patches to try and keep things looking like they are fair, but when someone gets that tiny bit of additional grip or power or braking even on just enough corners or spots, that 1 bad apple will ruin the bunch.
Plus when you see how good engineering optimized for a single platform like as an example Gran Turismo 7 does for the PS5, it doesn't make sense to spend 5x for so much hardware that apparently can't match the visual fidelity and have to deal with constant driver updates, patches, windows updates, and most of your team dealing with a huge amount of player base variation in setups and configurations. Just the variation between AMD and Nvidia is nonsense.
Will EVO work ok on RTX and only at lowest settings on AMD?
I'm over the decades of false promises and endless hype that some tech will solve things for gaming, when it just still hasn't and console's work fantastically out of the box. Bring back split screen and local LAN multiplayer already!
- 1,935
- Sweden
If you dont like those elements i talked about you dont have to use them, because ac evo will allow to borrow cars,
Thing is ac evo could be for everyone regardless of what you intrest are,
Never have we seen that happen before,
As great as ac1 was it didin’t cover everything.
Free roam was one of the most popular mods in ac1,
Kunos has taking notes for what they need to do to aim for the masses without sacrificing the sim crowd.
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- 280
- Finland
F1 was never broadcasted properly in Finland, not even after Keke won the 1982 championship. We got regular broadcasts only in the 90's Hakkinen era.
I'm too young to remember the eighties properly but I remember some occasional televised F1 races which were just so amazing. Biggest influence was my older brother (now 55) who always talked about Keke, Nigel, Niki, Elio... I watched those old races when I was 5 years old in total awe with my brother whenever they got televised. Sparks, crashes, the tracks and pitlanes where you could almost smell the motor oil even through the TV screen. Now I have watched all those races many times as I have every race 1979-2007 in my portable drive.
The drivers were full of mystique and they actually drove those very dangerous and primitive cars. In the mid 80's those cars had over 1000 hp, even close to 1400 hp in the QF trim. I'm sure today's drivers are just as skillful and perhaps even more so, but looking at these mad machines (and regular 1-2 deaths per season)... you'd think today's drivers would ever agree to drive these absolutely insane cars?
Sure the Hakkinen-Schumacher era was great but for me it never had the same mystique anymore. Perhaps it had something to do with that seeing F1 races was so rare before and every time it was an unique experince when they got televised. Now you saw them all every other weekend and those drivers become much more mainstream. Hakkinen advertised Mercedes-Benzes on TV and Schumi was in the L'Oreal advertisements and all that.
To me the 80's and early 90's was something "larger than life" and still is. And think about the quality of the grid. In 1985 there was 7 world champions (past or present) plus solid drivers like Berger, Arnoux and Elio which anyone could win in a given day. And guys like Lauda who was a synonymous to "hardcore racer". Now the drivers look more or less like boy band members and to me the whole sport has become so sterile. I watch the races but I can't get passionate about the sport anymore.
Me and me brother always talked about "how amazing it would be to have a proper 80's F1 simulator". Sure we had that EA 2002 F1 game which had those old skins, we had RF1 too which was kinda revolution. But they were still lacking in so many ways. Like I said before, AC was the first platform that made it possible to "relive" this era in believable fashion. Well RF2 of course too, but I never liked that game so much. The worst thing about it is the menu system which is horrendous.
But how big percentage this older gaming crowd is, if you look at the big picture? Probably not that significant. At least not from commercial point of view. Majority of guys in their 20s and 30s love their Nissan Skylines and old Beemers.... tuning their street cars I think. I have ZERO interest in that. Well maybe not zero as I go and have a drift sometimes with the E30 too... it's fun but it's a still completely different gaming interest.
I believe quite a big percentage of "harcore" AC gamers are guys in their 40's like me or even older who love the historical part of the sport and AC has offered a perfect platform to "recreate" it. But it absolutely requires total freedom of creating things. If this will be removed AC1 will never be "replaced" I think. It has become an "gaming encyclopedia" of Motorspots in many ways.
I think that's what Scott is trying to say too. But personally I think we're just a small group of classic racing fanatics, not significant crowd from the commercial point of view. Not so big percentage of AC drivers even have patience or interest to drive full seasons I think.
And besides the outlap/blue flag issues in AI and some occasional stupid ai pitting there aren't that many flaws or something that I absolutely NEED ACE to have. Perhaps the ACE team is not even trying to put AC1 in the history books and the new product will just live side by side with the old. Who knows. Perhaps some crazy modders are even able to PORT AC1 mods to the new game?
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- 1,874
- United States
I will say as a many decades fan of moto gp and motorcycle road racing along with Le Mans and many types of motorsport racing I feel that today the computer controls on the cars have really taken over much of the drivers skillset needs.
You take todays modern Moto Gp with the GPS based traction control, wheelie control and abs brakes most of these modern riders would high side themselves to the moon multiple times a lap without the electronic controls.
One of the reasons Rossi is considered the Goat is he also competed in the 500cc 2 stroke days when the machines were brutal and would spit a rider off in a heartbeat.
Those days the computer was between the ears and the traction control sensors were in the riders wrist and it was the riders ability that that kept him out of the hospital.
Take a rider like M. Marquis who even with all of the electronics crashes quite frequently and how long do you think he would have lasted on one of those 500cc two strokes?
Today on a race team the most valuable person on the team is the guy with the lap top that is programming the vehicles computer and all of its electronic controls
There is no doubt in my mind that in many forms of racing the riders/drivers were a bigger part of the equation as far as being consistent winners or running up front back in the day than today where the electronics do much of the drivers workload for them from behind the scenes.
I tend to chuckle when as an individual that is officially of the older retired senior age group sees the guys that are in their 40's and saying they are the older crowd!
I have a daughter in her late 40's and much closer to being 50 than 40. lol!
I actually remember the Ford vs. Ferrari days in Le Mans and if you notice by my Avatar the 917 Porsche in the Gulf colors is one of my favorite cars of all time.
But you are right, a person many times is a product of their times and one of the reasons I love 70's era American Trans AM racing is those were everyday car models on the streets in my days, I personally have owned a half dozen 70 Dodge Challenger R/T's over the years along with a couple of '69 Mustangs as well.
But back to the gaming if a Studio wants to attract those older gamers to their title as well throwing in a few "classic" old school classes of cars and racing from a long gone era and the trap is set!
As I have gotten older I more appreciate and want to drive the racing machines that benefit from limited grip and maintaining its momentum to get it best lap times rather than the high downforce high horsepower and quicker acceleration modern vehicles so common today.
Even open wheel, give me a '65 Lotus 38 10 to 1 over a new modern high downforce machine for my enjoyment.
Those older rides just had so much more character than anything made today.
- 4,142
- Ottawa
I consider myself one of those hardcore AC gamer. I "only" have 3948 cars and 913 cars, in CM, I have more in storage on drives not installed. From what I can read, some of you have even more, impressive! I am in my late 60". I love historical racing, F1, but not only, it is a big part of my attraction and love for AC. I play it daily, one of the perks of being retired. I do not do a lot of seasons or championships, but I regularly try to re-create past races with full grid on historic track.
Funny to me, how the "in" crowd on the trendy web site, love to trash AC AI or ACC AI. To me, ACC is the best AI and AC, with a little effort is the second best. My main issue with "proper" racing is that we still do not have "working" non standing start, pit stop is not solid, choosing the proper tire strategy for the AI is sketchy, and finally, despite some heroic progress with rain physic, what we have is still very basic in the best example. To me ACC does it best.
I am looking forward to Evo, ready to buy on day one, but not as a replacement to AC. At this point, with all that AC covers, can any game replace AC? Ever? I am expecting to use Evo, like I use ACC and a few more like AMS2, as a complement. I expect the bulk of the hours I play to stay with AC, for now and a long time to come, with some escapade to the other titles.
Time will tell if we can migrate the content we have curated in AC to Evo, will we even want to? To this day, AC is my favorite in most aspect of a simulation experience I care about and with some ups and down, it is getting better with the constant progress of CSP.
I am grateful to Kunos for bringing NetKar Pro, my first "real" simulator who took me beyond my first love, GT, and away from console. then of course Ac and then ACC. But is AC, in its present form, still Kunos? To me, it has evolved, Kunos gene are there, but it is so much more than the original, as it is played still on console. Evo, will need years to even come close, if it ever happen.
Are we a "big" percentage of the user base? Probably not, but it does not really matter.
We already have enough to be kept entertained for a long time in AC, having a lot more to enjoy than any other title, or maybe even all of them put together, missing a few bits, that may come still, to last us probably an other 10 years. Some other hardcore group are still enjoying GTR2, released in 2006, for reason very similar to why we enjoy AC, so Evo or no Evo, I cannot see or simulation world changing any time soon, at least not for me.
- 280
- Finland
Yes as I said before I don't understand people who say AC ai is not good. AC ai depends on how well the track has been made, how the cars have been constructed and the driver settings like aggression. Aggression 70'ish for the drivers might work well with some cars but it'd be a disaster with some other cars. So many individual factors affect the complete ai "end result".
So that's what I meant that there is no "general AC ai". Sure if you take Kunos track and Kunos cars and race you can say that. It's not perfect as the ai cars don't necessarily always give space when they should and they push you off the track. But you learn to adapt your overtaking style to that. But it's not that bad, really. I've also found that lower aggression setting has many benefits as higher aggression drivers commit much more mistakes.
The blue flag/outlap ai, however, is so bad it's unforgivable. That is a major issue, no need to sugar coat it. I race 20-30 laps only so it's not a HUGE issue but it's there. That HAS to be fixed to ACE. That issue is so blatant and obvious and it really puzzles me why they didn't make it right in the first place.
I haven't driven longer races in ACC, mainly just hotlapped it. Is that blue flag ai working in ACC?
@VFOURMAX1 I didn't mean guys in their 50's are old, or me in my 40's. But the average gamer is probably much younger, in their teens or early 20's. That is probably the target audience for any commercial gaming product. I could be wrong though... but there doesn't seem to be that much interest in classic racing even in this forum. We are just a select group of guys. My 1998 season files had been downloaded over 2000 times though. Maybe it's already new enough.
So that's what I meant that there is no "general AC ai". Sure if you take Kunos track and Kunos cars and race you can say that. It's not perfect as the ai cars don't necessarily always give space when they should and they push you off the track. But you learn to adapt your overtaking style to that. But it's not that bad, really. I've also found that lower aggression setting has many benefits as higher aggression drivers commit much more mistakes.
The blue flag/outlap ai, however, is so bad it's unforgivable. That is a major issue, no need to sugar coat it. I race 20-30 laps only so it's not a HUGE issue but it's there. That HAS to be fixed to ACE. That issue is so blatant and obvious and it really puzzles me why they didn't make it right in the first place.
I haven't driven longer races in ACC, mainly just hotlapped it. Is that blue flag ai working in ACC?
@VFOURMAX1 I didn't mean guys in their 50's are old, or me in my 40's. But the average gamer is probably much younger, in their teens or early 20's. That is probably the target audience for any commercial gaming product. I could be wrong though... but there doesn't seem to be that much interest in classic racing even in this forum. We are just a select group of guys. My 1998 season files had been downloaded over 2000 times though. Maybe it's already new enough.
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- 41
- France
I invite them to do the race challenges against the AIs. (alien difficulty)
They're fast, they don't cheat and they're clean.
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- 280
- Finland
And some created tracks are insanely fast while some others not so much. There are tracks where I can't get within a second of top ai drivers (at 100) times, while in some other tracks I can grab a pole with perfect lap. That's why creating well balanced seasons takes a lot of testing.
It would be great if you could define the ai driver skills separately for each and every race of the season. We can define the weather with SOL, why not add race specific ai adjustments? AC/Content Manager Championship mode is more like an afterthought rather than well polished product. It works but it could be improved in so many ways.
I'm not sure if I like the "amazing presentation" of Codemasters F1 games though. You know the podium celebrations, track previews, etc. I mean they look great but we all know the tracks... Monzas, Imolas, Monacos, etc. and I'm not sure if some mandatory celebration video after the race would add anything to the experience. AC doesn't have any of that which is strangely also part of its appeal. Just pure driving and simple results after the race, no gimmicks. That is very "hardcore sim like" to me.
It would be great if you could define the ai driver skills separately for each and every race of the season. We can define the weather with SOL, why not add race specific ai adjustments? AC/Content Manager Championship mode is more like an afterthought rather than well polished product. It works but it could be improved in so many ways.
I'm not sure if I like the "amazing presentation" of Codemasters F1 games though. You know the podium celebrations, track previews, etc. I mean they look great but we all know the tracks... Monzas, Imolas, Monacos, etc. and I'm not sure if some mandatory celebration video after the race would add anything to the experience. AC doesn't have any of that which is strangely also part of its appeal. Just pure driving and simple results after the race, no gimmicks. That is very "hardcore sim like" to me.
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- 280
- Finland
Good video.
Another thing that comes to mind is that the quantum leaps in sim racing have already been taken. Sorry for talking F1 games all the time but those I have played since the day one.
GP4 was an amazing product of its time. They really pushed the boundaries and created the best possible F1 sim what was possible with the resources back then. All tracks were accurate and they even had much better damage model than the sims today which is kinda ironic. A masterpiece of a game. I played it to bits.
But then there are people who claim "it's still the best F1 game". That is laughable. It's like comparing a 60s sports car to new 911 GT2 and claiming it's faster and better. Sure I'd take a classic 74 Porsche RS any day over a new 911 (and they're way more expensive now too) and I can say that I like the classic car much more but there is no way I'd say it's technically "better" or "faster". GP4 driving physics are not even CLOSE to AC.
AC and RF2 really pushed the standards to completely new levels. I don't really play (or love) RF2 that much personally but I acknowledge it's a good sim. Those titles "revolutionized" sim racing, imho... and the leap was GIGANTIC.
AC F1 driving is by far the best there is. Perhaps iRacing too. If you look at the actual races, the racing lines, lap times, car behaviour, etc. and compare it to the real cockpit view, we can honestly say that the sim racing titles have come extremely far. To the level that I never thought was possible 10-15 years ago. We have been spoiled. People often post AC F1 videos to Facebook... like Prost vs Senna in Nordschleife (which of course never happened)... those videos get 10K likes and most people don't even understand it's a game.
There's no way ACE can push the boundaries that much further anymore. There's not going to be that kind of "leap" anymore. Perhaps some people just except too much from it? They can fine tune things and improve the issues like kerb behaviour, rain ai, make the championships deeper, add more cool features but I doubt it can be that revolutionary anymore. VR was, of course, another "next level". What major things there are left to improve? Not so many.
Perhaps that's why the authors decided to call it "EVO" instead of sequel?
PS: A lot of people seem to put so much emphasis on graphics. I'm sure the graphics and eyecandy can be improved but for me that part is meaningless. Some people say that they don't play RBR because even with the mods graphics are so outdated. I never even noticed. It drives so well and the RallySimFans mod looks pretty good to me. I think it's still the best rally game and nothing in the driving physics feels outdated. Strange that rally games haven't been able to take those same "quantum leaps" what track racing sims have. Graphics are good enough for me. Sure the cockpit view looks too ugly and sloppy but I use the hood view.
Another thing that comes to mind is that the quantum leaps in sim racing have already been taken. Sorry for talking F1 games all the time but those I have played since the day one.
GP4 was an amazing product of its time. They really pushed the boundaries and created the best possible F1 sim what was possible with the resources back then. All tracks were accurate and they even had much better damage model than the sims today which is kinda ironic. A masterpiece of a game. I played it to bits.
But then there are people who claim "it's still the best F1 game". That is laughable. It's like comparing a 60s sports car to new 911 GT2 and claiming it's faster and better. Sure I'd take a classic 74 Porsche RS any day over a new 911 (and they're way more expensive now too) and I can say that I like the classic car much more but there is no way I'd say it's technically "better" or "faster". GP4 driving physics are not even CLOSE to AC.
AC and RF2 really pushed the standards to completely new levels. I don't really play (or love) RF2 that much personally but I acknowledge it's a good sim. Those titles "revolutionized" sim racing, imho... and the leap was GIGANTIC.
AC F1 driving is by far the best there is. Perhaps iRacing too. If you look at the actual races, the racing lines, lap times, car behaviour, etc. and compare it to the real cockpit view, we can honestly say that the sim racing titles have come extremely far. To the level that I never thought was possible 10-15 years ago. We have been spoiled. People often post AC F1 videos to Facebook... like Prost vs Senna in Nordschleife (which of course never happened)... those videos get 10K likes and most people don't even understand it's a game.
There's no way ACE can push the boundaries that much further anymore. There's not going to be that kind of "leap" anymore. Perhaps some people just except too much from it? They can fine tune things and improve the issues like kerb behaviour, rain ai, make the championships deeper, add more cool features but I doubt it can be that revolutionary anymore. VR was, of course, another "next level". What major things there are left to improve? Not so many.
Perhaps that's why the authors decided to call it "EVO" instead of sequel?
PS: A lot of people seem to put so much emphasis on graphics. I'm sure the graphics and eyecandy can be improved but for me that part is meaningless. Some people say that they don't play RBR because even with the mods graphics are so outdated. I never even noticed. It drives so well and the RallySimFans mod looks pretty good to me. I think it's still the best rally game and nothing in the driving physics feels outdated. Strange that rally games haven't been able to take those same "quantum leaps" what track racing sims have. Graphics are good enough for me. Sure the cockpit view looks too ugly and sloppy but I use the hood view.
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- 4,509
- SoCal
- GTP_MooCow
Sorry i didn't read the previous 23 pages here, but:
Did they say when Evo will come out on console (PS5/PS6?)
will VR2 be supported ?
if VR2 will be, it will be an immediate buy for me.
Did they say when Evo will come out on console (PS5/PS6?)
will VR2 be supported ?
if VR2 will be, it will be an immediate buy for me.
- 2,229
- MI
That's deuce negatory.
Give it some time though. It hasn't even come out at early release yet
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- 6,911
- United Kingdom
I personally thought the modern F1 cars were terrible in AC. It felt arcadish, lacked simulation value. One of the things I was disappointed about AC was it felt like a step back over Ferrari Virtual Academy and netKar Pro. AC to me only really feels good driving the road cars or race cars reliant more on mechanical grip than aero. Anything highly aero feels terrible, I had the same feeling with ACC so I barely played that or F1 cars on AC as it felt like you had to switch your brain off completely to how off the physics were to be able to even want to drive a single lap. AC does well to mimic real car performance but does so without matching the dynamics. It has too little grip when in reality there would be more grip and substantially more grip when there shouldn't be any which takes away the fun of driving on the edge of your seat.
Hoping AC Evo is a big step forward for race cars. I feel like there is so much more that can be done to improve sim physics and get closer to reality. When you watch onboards of real world laps compared to games, get a completely different perception of how it must be to drive in terms of car balance. Wonder how much better the F1 team sims are as they are spending a lot of money on upgrading them so they could be significantly better in the here and now given all the correlation they do.
- 2,229
- MI
You think the RSS Formula Hybrid 2023 or the VRC Formula Alpha 2024 drive terrible? 😯
That's not a take you hear often.
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,370
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
Have you ever driven a high aero race car?
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- 6,911
- United Kingdom
I was talking about the official F1 cars in the game. Not tried the new mods but had a look on YouTube and the physics still look terrible on the limit. I don't think they have the ability to completely change the physics of AC with a mod, just work within framework allowed. It was really a small team for AC with not a lot of time for development so only so much one person could do for physics. Looking forward to AC Evo as it is now a bigger team so hopefully there is decent progression if they include Formula cars again. There is also a rival in Project Motor Racing scheduled to come out in the same year so hopefully they do a decent job too. I think race cars handled a lot more realistically in Project CARS than AC although still too forgiving but at least it had a more realistic balance to the cars although there were still some quirkiness to the physics.
Not really when I formed them opinions about the game. It is so unrealistic, that it is too hard for me to ignore and be oblivious to it when driving such cars in game. Less grippy stuff is much more fun on AC so I would be totally up for lawnmower racing over modern F1 cars in AC. Only Formula car I found fun was the 312T in that game.
Have since been fortunate to get opportunity to drive some of these types of cars on circuits for a few minutes, but that just affirmed my preconceived notions. Hopefully simulators improve a lot with the next-generation of games. I know they are quite abstract so simulate very little of reality due to processing power available but there is still plenty of scope to improve them and mimic more of the phenomenon of reality. A lot of F1 teams for example upgraded their simulation tools to try and account for porpoising.
- 2,229
- MI
With CSP, Extended Physics and people that employ those new features with a wonderful understanding, they do have the ability to completely change the physics. For the most part. It's just odd that you are calling something unrealistic that countless other people have been calling realistic since 2013. These include real drivers. I can agree that the tire model is aging a bit and outside of just driving the cars, we could get into the stagnant tracks or simplistic not so very intelligent artificials, but AC has been far renowned for what it does and doesn't do well. Physics and FFB are pretty top of the list.
I like the less grippy stuff too. There's full F1 seasons that are made that feel great. ASR 1990? I get the feeling you're not on PC though.
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,370
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
Yep they do, as @Beezer215 described, CSP allows this to be done.
How is it 'so unrealistic', you've said it's wrong a few times now, but you've not been specific about what is actually wrong.
Excellent, what did you have a go with.
Plenty of processing power around to simulate the majority of reality, but out of interest, as a percentage where you would rate each of the sims you've tried in terms of accuracy.
Not accurate at all...
"So, when that occurred, there were some differences between what our simulator was showing and how the car reacted on track. We didn’t go to great details to model that in the simulator because we wanted to avoid it."
...quite a difference between not fully modelling it and needing to upgrade sim tools for it to occur. It's not even a new phenomenon, engineers have been aware of it for decades, it's just not been a factor without ground-effects running.
Formula 1's Porpoising Problem
Porpoising is a phenomenon that caught out many of the F1 teams at the first pre-season test and is something they'll need to get on top of to optimise in this new era.
www.racecar-engineering.com
- 317
- Spain
When it comes to details and obsession with the automotive world, it is worth highlighting two other interesting aspects of Assetto Corsa Evo. "There will not only be a lot of car models in the game" , Davide confesses to us, unable to contain his satisfaction. "For each car, all the configurations and engines that you would find in any dealership will be available. If your favorite car is sold both in petrol and diesel, for example, or in a version that mounts 17-inch wheels with a sunroof, then it will also be the case in our game" .
Source (in Italian)
multiplayer.it
Source (in Italian)
Assetto Corsa Evo, qualche giro di pista con la simulazione italiana
Abbiamo provato Assetto Corsa Evo, scoprendone qualcosa di più grazie alle chiacchiere con Davide Brivio, game director del gioco.
- 25
- Germany
Nice, every Car Guy likes to play with online configurator. This sounds like next level for that
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