Assetto corsa coming to PS4 and Xbox one

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dopedog
Didn't say that, i said sims can make driving seem harder than it really is.... I'm not the only one saying this and 2 heads of the biggest most important console games to be on both PC and consoles think the same, i'll not change your view you wont change mine.
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I have to say from personal opinion I pretty much agree with you. I'm not saying I'm a driving god, but I understand cars. Not done a proper track day as such, but done 60-70 laps over the last 5-6 years around my local Curborough sprint track in a modified 1.8 MX5, Cliosport 182 and MR2 Turbo with no TC. (and a diesel polo with 3 cylinders, but ignore that) and none of them, even when getting a wiggle on snapped like they do on some of the "sims" (specifically GT6 and Project Cars for me). Even the MR2 which is notorious for snap oversteer (in other words people couldn't drive properly so had to have a reason for it...) didn't do that, it progressively slipped. That's why I love Forza and why I'm excited for Assetto. Ignoring the physics on their own, Forzas "thumb to screen" driving experience feels the most real to me. Gentle inputs with gentle slippy responses.
PS I'm not saying Assetto is anything like this as I haven't touched it, just so it's not taken out of context :)

Will
 
You can be a crap racing driver, thats sort of the point, but they are crap because driving slower or when they push the envelope they go off track etc etc, they can be crap for race craft etc.
I just hate this notion that only some uber Gods can get into a racing car and drive it around, and us mere mortals should bow down to them.
I am confident in what i have driven in real life that i could get into a GT3 car and get it around the track in my own pace and own time.
Quite why anyone who can drive in real life would like to think they couldn't get a GT3 car around a corner for a few laps is beyond me, i'm not suggesting they would have to do record breaking times just get the thing around the track.

Spending alot of time around drivers and tracks due to my brother racing and family connections etc I have seen drivers of lower level cars pretty much standard bar track tyres and coil overs and weight reduction, get into a higher class car with slicks aero and many trick parts and the first thing they say once they stop smiling is "wow...that is so much easier to drive than MY car!!"

Why? because its designed to be a throughout bred racing machine, handles better, quite simple...

Modern day racing more than ever is about the special drivers who driver to limits and beyond, its not about if they can get a car to turn. Now the old days it was a bit more like that granted. F1 drivers have said how easy it is to drive modern F1 cars...easy to 'drive' that is not easy to be the fastest...
There are legends and special ones and aliens if you like even, but if you take the Senna's and Prosts and Mansell's and Matt Neals and Jason Platos etc etc you also have to accept the Nick Fosters, Martin Deppers, Andy Neates, etc etc....
Anyone can be a 'racing driver' with a bit of cash, i have a race license (ards test) so am i a racing driver?
I think i could be, I'd not be Senna thats for sure but i have confidence i'd be pretty good judging by track days i've done. I can drive, whether i drive good or bad isn't the issue, i can drive, because i do, so when i play a game i expect to be able to 'drive'. pcARS feels the most natural to me right now.
 
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dopedog
Didn't say that, i said sims can make driving seem harder than it really is (i.e. can't get round a corner in a racing car at 40mph without rear end coming round etc or just bust physics).... I'm not the only one saying this and 2 heads of the biggest most important console games to be on both PC and consoles think the same, i'll not change your view you wont change mine.
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To say "sims make driving seem harder than it is" is exactly the same thing as saying "sims are harder than real driving", and it's a load of nonsense.

You leap from me saying that simulations are significantly easier than driving real cars on the limit, to saying I'm suggesting real race drivers are all "uber gods" or that real race cars are "impossible to drive", when I never said that at all.

dopedog
I am confident in what i have driven in real life that i could get into a GT3 car and get it around the track in my own pace and own time.
Quite why anyone who can drive in real life would like to think they couldn't get a GT3 car around a corner for a few laps is beyond me, i'm not suggesting they would have to do record breaking times just get the thing around the track.
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Anybody that can drive a car could step into a GT3 car and drive it, but the point is, not everybody could drive it fast. Not everybody could get the most out of it. In a sim, all of us here could get much more out of any race car than any of us could get out of the real thing. That's because it's not as difficult to drive in a sim.

The only thing ever spoken about as being difficult to get used to in simulators is the lack of G forces acting on your body. You have to work with less information as to what the car is doing. Everything else is easier.


dopedog
Modern day racing more than ever is about the special drivers who driver to limits and beyond, its not about if they can get a car to turn. Now the old days it was a bit more like that granted. F1 drivers have said how easy it is to drive modern F1 cars...easy to 'drive' that is not easy to be the fastest...
There are legends and special ones and aliens if you like even, but if you take the Senna's and Prosts and Mansell's and Matt Neals and Jason Platos etc etc you also have to accept the Nick Fosters, Martin Deppers, Andy Neates, etc etc....
Anyone can be a 'racing driver' with a bit of cash, i have a race license (ards test) so am i a racing driver?
I think i could be, I'd not be Senna thats for sure but i have confidence i'd be pretty good judging by track days i've done. I can drive, whether i drive good or bad isn't the issue, i can drive, because i do, so when i play a game i expect to be able to 'drive'. pcARS feels the most natural to me right now.
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F1 drivers say that the current F1 cars are easy to drive compared to what they used to be, there's a big difference between "easier than they used to be" and "this car is easy to drive". Martin Brundle had very different things to say about the 2014/15 F1 cars after he drove a bunch of them. He certainly didn't find them easy.

Again, nobody said you or anyone else couldn't get in a racing car and drive it, but your claim was that simulators are harder than real driving, or in your words, sims make real driving seem harder than it is. I disagree, I've driven a lot of cars, driven a lot of cars hard, done track day driving, and done amateur racing, and I think it is significantly easier to push cars to their limits in a sim than it is to push cars to their limits in real life.
 
Mike_grpA
To say "sims make driving seem harder than it is" is exactly the same thing as saying "sims are harder than real driving", and it's a load of nonsense.

You leap from me saying that simulations are significantly easier than driving real cars on the limit, to saying I'm suggesting real race drivers are all "uber gods" or that real race cars are "impossible to drive", when I never said that at all.



Anybody that can drive a car could step into a GT3 car and drive it, but the point is, not everybody could drive it fast. Not everybody could get the most out of it. In a sim, all of us here could get much more out of any race car than any of us could get out of the real thing. That's because it's not as difficult to drive in a sim.

The only thing ever spoken about as being difficult to get used to in simulators is the lack of G forces acting on your body. You have to work with less information as to what the car is doing. Everything else is easier.




F1 drivers say that the current F1 cars are easy to drive compared to what they used to be, there's a big difference between "easier than they used to be" and "this car is easy to drive". Martin Brundle had very different things to say about the 2014/15 F1 cars after he drove a bunch of them. He certainly didn't find them easy.

Again, nobody said you or anyone else couldn't get in a racing car and drive it, but your claim was that simulators are harder than real driving, or in your words, sims make real driving seem harder than it is. I disagree, I've driven a lot of cars, driven a lot of cars hard, done track day driving, and done amateur racing, and I think it is significantly easier to push cars to their limits in a sim than it is to push cars to their limits in real life.
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"Anybody that can drive a car could step into a GT3 car and drive it, but the point is, not everybody could drive it fast."

Your just saying what i'm saying so whats the point in this?

Also the reason i get from people for saying a sim makes it harder is mainly the lack of feel, a racing driver or track driver will really notice the lack of feel from the sim and the lack of feel that they can 'lean' on the tyres with confidence as the feeling and markers they normally feel are absent in a game unless your using motion rig but even then it can lack.
With time and practice they would learn the signs to use to get that 'feel' but it isn't there straight from car to sim.
You must see that real life gives you so much more feeling! My brother races but i'm better than him at PCars, he feels its the most natural but he would need to learn to drive without the little feelings he gets from real life, he said sim racing is like wearing a condom, its safe, it feels quite good, its still fun...but he'd rather not wear one as he wants to feel everything....:cheers:
 
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dopedog
"Anybody that can drive a car could step into a GT3 car and drive it, but the point is, not everybody could drive it fast."

Your just saying what i'm saying so whats the point in this?
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You claimed simulators make driving seem harder than it is, when they don't. I disagreed and said sims are significantly easier than real driving, and then you took it on a tangent about how you could drive a GT3 car if you wanted to, and that anyone can be a race car driver. None of that was related to what I said in any way.

Sims will always be easier to push a car to it's limits than the real thing. Being able to jump in a real race car and plod around not extracting much out of it has nothing to do with that comparison.

As I said earlier, do you honestly think you could drive something like a 70's F1 car on the limit? As hard and fast as you can in Pcars or any other sim you've played?

Edit: Since you added a fair bit to that post I should reply. I agree with you that there is a lot of feeling missing from sims, and I said that in an earlier post as well, that that is the only part of sim driving that is harder than real driving. The lack of feel is difficult to get used to at first, but is overcome fairly quickly by most. However, there are so many aspects to real driving that are significantly harder than in a sim, that no sim I've played comes close to the difficulty of pushing real cars to the limit. The more realistic and harder sims get, the more fun they get.

I love nothing more than driving real cars hard, but unfortunately this is a much more expensive hobby than sim racing lol. To the point that now I don't even have a track car anymore. I am spoilt for good driving roads with my road car though, with my town surrounded by epic tarmac rally stages, my daily gets a hell of a workout lol. Also with my son turning 4 soon, I needed to switch the motorsport focus onto him, as it's too expensive for me to have a racecar and for me to get him into karting as well.
 
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It's also easier siting in a rig,on front of a TV screen, relaxed and nowing that you're playing a videogame with no fear to get injured or with the car crashed..

In real life, you get stressed, with some fear and tension in the body, feeling really the power of the car...and you got also the external factors...all that makes that you don't gonna push a car easier to his limits..

A "sim" game helps with a good FFB to have a good time and learn some basics of cornering, braking, car balance but less more!
The good work of some sims like assetto Corsa are the driving physics that with the new technology are getting better and gives a good idea of Motorsport and car behaviour..
 
dopedog
"Anybody that can drive a car could step into a GT3 car and drive it, but the point is, not everybody could drive it fast."

Your just saying what i'm saying so whats the point in this?

Also the reason i get from people for saying a sim makes it harder is mainly the lack of feel, a racing driver or track driver will really notice the lack of feel from the sim and the lack of feel that they can 'lean' on the tyres with confidence as the feeling and markers they normally feel are absent in a game unless your using motion rig but even then it can lack.
With time and practice they would learn the signs to use to get that 'feel' but it isn't there straight from car to sim.
You must see that real life gives you so much more feeling! My brother races but i'm better than him at PCars, he feels its the most natural but he would need to learn to drive without the little feelings he gets from real life, he said sim racing is like wearing a condom, its safe, it feels quite good, its still fun...but he'd rather not wear one as he wants to feel everything....:cheers:
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If you like how PCars feels and you also think sims are lacking information (they are) then you should like Assetto Corsa. It's like PCars but only a little more refined with a more detail coming through the wheel. It's the best I've played so far and I also have PCars, at telling the driver what is happening with the car at all times.
 
OK genuine question, do you think Mario of AC is getting his excuses in early for dumbing down AC for consoles in what he says on that video?
 
Mike_grpA
You claimed simulators make driving seem harder than it is, when they don't. I disagreed and said sims are significantly easier than real driving, and then you took it on a tangent about how you could drive a GT3 car if you wanted to, and that anyone can be a race car driver. None of that was related to what I said in any way.

Sims will always be easier to push a car to it's limits than the real thing. Being able to jump in a real race car and plod around not extracting much out of it has nothing to do with that comparison.

As I said earlier, do you honestly think you could drive something like a 70's F1 car on the limit? As hard and fast as you can in Pcars or any other sim you've played?

Edit: Since you added a fair bit to that post I should reply. I agree with you that there is a lot of feeling missing from sims, and I said that in an earlier post as well, that that is the only part of sim driving that is harder than real driving. The lack of feel is difficult to get used to at first, but is overcome fairly quickly by most. However, there are so many aspects to real driving that are significantly harder than in a sim, that no sim I've played comes close to the difficulty of pushing real cars to the limit. The more realistic and harder sims get, the more fun they get.

I love nothing more than driving real cars hard, but unfortunately this is a much more expensive hobby than sim racing lol. To the point that now I don't even have a track car anymore. I am spoilt for good driving roads with my road car though, with my town surrounded by epic tarmac rally stages, my daily gets a hell of a workout lol. Also with my son turning 4 soon, I needed to switch the motorsport focus onto him, as it's too expensive for me to have a racecar and for me to get him into karting as well.
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The bit in bold is basically what i was trying to get at in the first place, this is what 'real' racing drivers have commented on. We pretty much are agreeing. :cheers:
 
dopedog
OK genuine question, do you think Mario of AC is getting his excuses in early for dumbing down AC for consoles in what he says on that video?
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Hi,
What did he say that prompted you to ask?? I didn't want to pre-order anything again after the PCARS on PS4 fiasco, but I was thinking I should give AC at least a chance and get the extra cars.
 
dopedog
OK genuine question, do you think Mario of AC is getting his excuses in early for dumbing down AC for consoles in what he says on that video?
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I have no idea what you are talking about you'll have to be specific. As far as I know, the two games are identical physics wise I'm not sure what dumbing down you're talking about. Give specific times in the video for reference please.
 
dopedog
OK genuine question, do you think Mario of AC is getting his excuses in early for dumbing down AC for consoles in what he says on that video?
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What video are you referring to? Kunos at EVERY stage has said that the ONE area they will not compromise on is the physics.
 
Johnnypenso
I have no idea what you are talking about you'll have to be specific. As far as I know, the two games are identical physics wise I'm not sure what dumbing down you're talking about. Give specific times in the video for reference please.
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Sorry yes i am of the opinion that driving cars can in some games appear a lot harder than it really is for whatever reason.
Thankfully Mario of AC agrees with this sentiment. The question was aimed at Mike TBH.
I personally dont think AC will be dumbed down. Some people think dumbed down is allowing a racing car to have grip.
 
Having seen that new UI for the console release, I do hope we'll get it on PC as well.

I know the chances are high-ish, but until there is a solid confirmation, I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Unless it is confirmed?, and I've just missed it.
 
Kurei
Having seen that new UI for the console release, I do hope we'll get it on PC as well.

I know the chances are high-ish, but until there is a solid confirmation, I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Unless it is confirmed?, and I've just missed it.
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I don't have the link at my fingertips, but someone posted a screenshot of Lord Kunos saying that the PC version will not get the new UI or the new on-screen graphics for the apps, we'll just keep on keepin on with what we have. I wish we were getting at least the on-screen stuff, I think it looks better than what we have now. I'm ok with the current menu UI, it looks fine and is easy to navigate with a mouse.
 
dopedog
OK genuine question, do you think Mario of AC is getting his excuses in early for dumbing down AC for consoles in what he says on that video?
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I have no idea what you're talking about either. Kunos have said numerous times the physics won't change for consoles. As far as Marco "agreeing with you", that's meaningless, unless your claim is that he's actually trying to say his own sim isn't very realistic. If he said somewhere that other sims portray driving as being harder than it really is, and his sim doesn't, then I would imagine that would be answering someone who's possibly suggesting AC seems easy for a sim. Ian Bell did the same thing, but of course they would, they're not about to say "yeah well it's not as realistic as some" are they? lol.
 
Mike_grpA
To say "sims make driving seem harder than it is" is exactly the same thing as saying "sims are harder than real driving", and it's a load of nonsense.
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Jackie Stewart claimed Grand Prix Legends was harder than real life.
 
Mike_grpA
That's probably because Jackie didn't grow up with computers lol. My dad thinks sending a Facebook message is much harder than writing a letter, but like Jakcie, I feel that has more to do with him being from a more analogue generation :lol:
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He played the game, point invalidated.
 
Furinkazen
He played the game, point invalidated.
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Anyone who has gone from racing their whole lives, to having a go at sims, is going to have a hard time getting used to the sims. It works the other way around too. People grow up with computer games and playing racing sims, and find when they start driving real cars that it's much harder and a very different thing to get used to.
 
Kurei
Case in point, that one guy that crashed a 370Z at GTAcademy in Silverstone. :lol:
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Poor bloke's never gonna live that down is he lol.

Back on topic: Apologies if this has already been posted somewhere around here, but I found this article and video about the console menu and ffb. The menus look very streamlined, with simple and straightforward ffb parameters. Also in the video, Marco mentions Fanatec support on PS4 and X1, which is great news for those of us with Fanatec gear.

http://www.gamereactor.eu/news/375343/This+is+how+Force+Feedback+works+in+Assetto+Corsa+on+PS4/

One question for those with AC on PC: Is the ffb physics derived like in Pcars, or are things like kerb effects and such just canned effects? I don't mind either way, as canned effects can be very good sometimes, I'm just curious.
 
Mike_grpA
Ah ok thanks. Do they feel good though? In comparison to Pcars' physics derived ffb effects of kerb, road feel (suspension), and slip?
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I don't really rememeber what PCars felt like but they're ok in AC. I run about 10-15% of each just to add a bit of extra feeling.
 

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