(ATCC) Australian Touring Car Championship | NW48 & Aaroh007 Are Your Driver's Champions!!!Finished
- Thread starter NW48
- 1,971 comments
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Yeah I watched the long version, and I will admit that Prost was a bot hard done by as it's a well-known fact that after Prost retired, he and Senna became close friends despite all that was said.Absolutely great editing in the last sequence, no music, just the engine. And then the aftermath...
Did you see the long version ? Although there's lot of journalists crap interviews (at least half is irrelevant IMO) there are some interesting and most of all, the full interviews from Prost who gets a lot deeper in his comments.
These are also included in the DVD's bonuses if you can't find it elsewhere.
Senna, but I have a huge respect for Prost, he still holds very high numbers in the records.
BTW I was barely born at the time
Watching that movie though, also gives you a big reminder about how awesome the cars and the racing was back then. Especially if you listen at near max volume in surrond sound.
I was born 6 years after Senna's death, and didn't really find out about Senna until I was 9 or 10. I have my Dad to thank about introducing me to Ayrton.
- 853
- Le Mans
- ElCondensator
Nowadays racing has little to envy from the past, I think it's just that our vision is altered somehow because of maybe nostalgia (then transmitted to younger generations), maybe some events like Senna's death, and probably more superficial things like the car's sound and looking.Watching that movie though, also gives you a big reminder about how awesome the cars and the racing was back then. Especially if you listen at near max volume in surrond sound.
My thoughts are F1 is still cool but really declining -and not because of the engine sound or the DRS- and WEC on the other hand is now the new pinnacle of 4 wheels motorsport with great and open regulations providing, top notch racing machines, intense battles and positive atmosphere overall.
- 367
- Lithgow
- LITTLEBLACKO932
Theres more action in WEC
- 853
- Le Mans
- ElCondensator
- 6,799
- United Kingdom
Senna or Prost?
Prost. Just sliding it in here
Prost. Just sliding it in here
- 6,799
- United Kingdom
Dude. You used to be coolSenna or Prost you say?
Nigel Mansell
I win...
Have you seen how button started to grow a moustache similar to Mansell?
Don't get me wrong Senna was a great driver, but the best ever? No. The majority of drivers have the same experiences as he does, just his were publicised more, and I didn't agree with a lot of senna's reckless attitude. Prost was calm, consistent and could still beat senna when he wasn't giving 100% Senna was 200% every race.
Best driver ever? Jason Plato Of Course
(Runs away quickly
) (Ninja chasing with a frying pan)
- 1,617
- Halifax, West Yorkshire
- NinjitsuEvolved
- Gaijin Kaiju
Dude. You used to be cool
Have you seen how button started to grow a moustache similar to Mansell?
Don't get me wrong Senna was a great driver, but the best ever? No. The majority of drivers have the same experiences as he does, just his were publicised more, and I didn't agree with a lot of senna's reckless attitude. Prost was calm, consistent and could still beat senna when he wasn't giving 100% Senna was 200% every race.
Best driver ever? Jason Plato Of Course
(Runs away quickly
Yeah, I prefer Prost's methodical style. All you have to do is listen to Martin Brundle talk about Senna. He overtakes and leaves it up to you whether or not you crash. As a person who hates cheap, divebombing bastards I can't really admire Senna for it now, can I?
- 853
- Le Mans
- ElCondensator
In fact, a bit like Hamilton in his early F1 years.
He's still a bit reckless though...
Maybe what is fascinating about him is his schizophrenia, being concerned about safety but dangerous on the track at the same time.
I know an other Senna who was dangerous in F1 but not nearly as quick, I can tell you the size of his fan club is definitely not comparable.
Although I agree that Senna is probably overrated I can't let you say that. Races like Monaco '84, few drivers can or at least did have the opportunity to show it. I can mention Vettel at Monza '08 and there are probably more I don't have in mind at the moment but it is far from "the majority of the drivers".
Senna was like Hamilton, a driver naturally fast and for some reason I feel they are globally more esteemed than the drivers who work their way up slower. And there's a bit of a "Cobain syndrome", passing away near the pic of your career often increases even further the popularity.
(replace Cobain with any artist/actor/sportsman/etc... who died prematurely)
And then finally there's a mix of charisma, media frenzy and an unknown factor that puts certain persons in the foreground and others in the background.
When Senna crushes the field '88-'91 he's winning because he's the best driver in the world. (eluding Prost BTW
)When Vettel crushes the field '10-'13 he's winning just because he drives the best Newey car.
Go figure...
- 6,799
- United Kingdom
by 'every driver has it' I don't partculary mean his extreme speed. As he said sometimes his 'out of body driving' experiences every driver will experience it, but due to his speed in general it was all the more noticeable.In fact, a bit like Hamilton in his early F1 years.
He's still a bit reckless though...
Maybe what is fascinating about him is his schizophrenia, being concerned about safety but dangerous on the track at the same time.
I know an other Senna who was dangerous in F1 but not nearly as quick, I can tell you the size of his fan club is definitely not comparable.
Although I agree that Senna is probably overrated I can't let you say that. Races like Monaco '84, few drivers can or at least did have the opportunity to show it. I can mention Vettel at Monza '08 and there are probably more I don't have in mind at the moment but it is far from "the majority of the drivers".
Senna was like Hamilton, a driver naturally fast and for some reason I feel they are globally more esteemed than the drivers who work their way up slower. And there's a bit of a "Cobain syndrome", passing away near the pic of your career often increases even further the popularity.
(replace Cobain with any artist/actor/sportsman/etc... who died prematurely)
And then finally there's a mix of charisma, media frenzy and an unknown factor that puts certain persons in the foreground and others in the background.
When Senna crushes the field '88-'91 he's winning because he's the best driver in the world. (eluding Prost BTW
When Vettel crushes the field '10-'13 he's winning just because he drives the best Newey car.
Go figure...
Oh so Senna wasn't winning due to the Honda McLaren like Seb's Red Bull? No? Ok
- 853
- Le Mans
- ElCondensator
That's exactly what I'm pointing out. I mean the contrary. Well nevermind lolOh so Senna wasn't winning due to the Honda McLaren like Seb's Red Bull? No? Ok
- 164
- Somewhere down under
- Jordiehamz
. Wish I could join
I think Senna is the best due to his heriocs on and off the track. 1991 Brazilian Grand Prix springs to mind. He drove the Interlagos circuit for many laps with only 6th gear. In the rain. That shouldn't have been possible. Yet he did it and still won. 1993 Donnington, Senna, in an inferior McLaren, lapped the entire field, bar one (2nd places Damon Hill) and won. Again in the wet. That infamous Monaco lap, that is still considered the best lap in F1 history.
During the three days Senna's body was in Brazil after his death, not one crime was reported. True story.
Then there's the IAS, that's helped 12 million kids since 1995.
Anyway, I should save this for the tribute.
During the three days Senna's body was in Brazil after his death, not one crime was reported. True story.
Then there's the IAS, that's helped 12 million kids since 1995.
Anyway, I should save this for the tribute.
- 184
- Secret Bobo HQ
- OnTheApex6Albert
Bahh! Forgot about this, won't be able to make tonight as im racing in the GTPES :'( Have fun guys. Hoping to return eventually!
R.I.P
Ayrton Senna da Silva
March 21 1960 - May 1 1994
Ayrton Senna Race Stats
Races: 162 (161 starts)Ayrton Senna da Silva
March 21 1960 - May 1 1994
Ayrton Senna Race Stats
Championships: 3 ('88, '90, '91)
Wins: 41
Podiums: 80
Career Points: 610 (614)
Pole Positions: 65
Fastest Laps: 19
Ayrton Senna da Silva was born on the 21st of March 1960, in Sao Paulo, Brazil. His father, Milton, built him his first go-kart, a small 1HP lawnmower engine was the source of power, Ayrton was just 4. It wasn't until he was 13 that he started racing competitively at Interlagos, a circuit that would later help build his legacy. After 2 seasons in Formula Ford 1600 & 2000, Senna moved up to the world of Formula 3 driving for West Surrey Racing. He domimated the first half of the season, until Martin Brundle, driving for Eddie Jordan Racing, started winning races. It was at the Suzuka round that a young Ayrton's 'crash or win' attitude showed when he dived from way back and parked his Ralt on Brundle's shoulder, putting them both out of the race. It was Senna who eventually came out on top in the championship battle.
It was 1984, Senna, who declined an offer from Ron Dennis to drive for McLaren, was preparing for his first season of F1 with the back-runner team of Toleman. The car didn't have a snowflakes chance in hell to win a race, but in only his 3rd F1 race, at a wet Monaco that's exactly what happened. Senna tore through the pack, passing the likes of Lauda and Mansell as he went. Prost appealed to to the marshalls to have the race atopped, but Ayrton, instead of whinging about the conditions got on with the job. He wpuld eventually pass Prost at the line for the lead, but the race was wound back a lap to get the results, most likely in favour of the Frenchman. But still Senna managed something that was thought to be impossible. A second place in a Toleman in only his third race.
The 1985 season rolled around, Senna, now at Lotus, was preparing for his first decent shot at the World Championship in only his second year in the sport. Come his second race at Lotus at a very wet Portuguese Grand Prix, Senna qualified on pole, won the race, lapping all but second, and set the fastest lap of the race, completing Senna's first grand slam of his career. The rest of his tenure at Lotus was series of ups & downs, woth no real conaistentcy due to the unreliability of the Lotus cars.
In 1988, he joined the McLaren-HHonda team, with backing from Honda, and from the out-set, it seemed, he had the backing from his teammate, Alain Prost. The pair would clash numerous times during their tenures at McLaren. Thirteen poles and eight wins led Senna to his first of three World Championships.
In 1989, the championship would come down to Suzuka, if Senna failed to finish, Prost was champion. After a slow start, Senna recovered to challenge Prost for the lead in the closing laps of the race. Senna had the better run off 130R and attempted a pass on Prost into Casio Chicane. Prost, knowing Senna was there, turned in early and collided with Senna, ending his own race. Senna, however, got started again with help of the Marshalls and took the escape road, as you should. Prost, saw this and reported the incident to Race Control. Jean-Marie Balestre, was fellow Frenchman like Prost. He and race conyrol concluded that, Senna made a 'stupid' pass and instead of going backwards on the track and traversing the chicane he took the escape road, which Balestre deemed as "An escape road is not to escape down, it's to turn around and rejoin the track backwards." Ron Dennis, the Team Principal of McLaren, showed footage at the next race at Adelaide that showed cars taking the escape road as Senna did, but with no penalty, asking the question; "Why?" As a result of the Suzuka clash, Senna had his license seuspended for 6 months, fined $1,000 and was DSQ'd from Suzuka.
1990. Senna had a new teammate and friend in Gerard Bergher at McLaren with Prost going to Ferrari. Senna dominated the first half of the season, however that didn't stop the championship going down to the final round at Suzuka again. This time, if Prost failed to finish, Senna would be champion. After pole position was mysteriously moved to the dirty side of the track, Senna tried getting it moved back to the clean side, only to have his request denied by Frenchman and friend of Prost, Jean-Marie Balestre. So, Senna on the dirty side, got a bad start, with Prost sneaking into the lead, however, Senna got back to his rear wheel, and drove straight into the back of Prost, on purpose, ending both their races, and handing Senna hos second championship. After the race, Prost saod, "I wanted to punch him in the face, but I couldn't as I was so disgusted".
1991 was much of the same for Senna, dominating most of the season. The championship came down to Suzuka again, but this time it was between him and Nigel Mansell. Mansell however ended up spinning off into the gravel, handing the championship to Senna. He was now the youngest ever Triple World Champion at the time. Prost was sacked from Ferrari due to public criticism of the car. One standout was Senna's legendary drive at Interlagos where he had to drive with only 6th gear on a wet track yet despite that, he still won. Claiming his first win on home soil.
1992 rolled around and it was a year were Williams dominated and McLaren struggled. However, at Spa during practice, French driver Erik Comas was involved in a heavy crash. Senna, who was the first to arrive on the scene. Stopped on track, got out and ran across the track to turn Comas' engine off to prevent a fire. Erik Comas later said that it "saved my life".
1993, Senna's last year at McLaren, he was back at the peak of his power with great performances in a car that should have been relegated to fighting for second best. Donnington was one of his best drives ever, lapping every car but second, winning the race in the wet with an inferior McLaren by over a minute to second place.
1994. Senna was now at Williams. What made the car great in years gone by was suddenly banned. So a car tgat was solely designed around those features had to get rid of them. This made the car impossible to drive. Senna, who unlike teammate Damon Hill was actually pushing the car beyond the limit as Senna always does, was struggling to adapt with the odd balance with the car. He retired from the opening two rounds of the season.
Imola - San Marino Grand Prix - 29th April
Friday Practice, Senna was still struggling with the car, talking about the odd balance yet again, and how it breaks away indifferently. It was that day when Senna's protégé, Rubens Barichello had an appalling accident, but only had a broken nose as a result. Luck would change the next day, when the young Austrian, Roland Ratzenberger's MTV-sponsored Simtek-Ford hit a kerb and broke the front wing, sending the car into a concrete wall at the Villenueve corner at around 310kmh. He was pronounced dead on arrival to hospital.
Sunday rolled around and Senna, despite calls to quit, was still racing. He was noticeably mortified about Ratzenberger's death. Once the race started, it was immediately stopled again due to a collision between Pedro Lamy and JJ Lehto on the start line. Both were unhurt. However, some spectators were injured due to debris. Minutes later, the race restarted after being behind the Safety Car.
As Senna rounded the high-speed Tamburello corner on lap 7, his car left the racing line at around 191 mph (307 km/h), ran in a straight line off the track, and hit the concrete retaining wall at around 145 mph (233 km/h), after what telemetry showed to be an application of the brakes for around two seconds. The red flag was shown as a consequence of the accident. Within two minutes of crashing, Senna was extracted from his race car by Professor Watkins and his medical team, including intensive care anaesthetist, Giovanni Gordini. Initial treatment took place by the side of the car, with Senna having a weak heartbeat and significant blood loss (approximately 4.5 litres) cause of Senna's poor neurological condition, Professor Watkins performed an on-site tracheotomy and requested the immediate airlifting of Senna to Bologna's Maggiore Hospital under the supervision of Dr Gordini. At 6:40pm, the head of the hospital's Emergency Department, Dr Fiandri made the announcement that Senna had died, but said the official time of death under Italian Law was 2:17pm, which is when he impacted the wall and his brain stopped working. Professor Watkins later said that as soon as he saw Senna's fully dilated pupils, he knew that his brainstem was inactive and that he would not survive.
It is believed that the right-front wheel and suspension sent back into the cockpit, striking Senna on the right side of his helmet, forcing his head back against the headrest. In addition, a piece of the upright assembly, most likely a tyre rod, penetrated the helmet visor, which was a new, thinner version, above his right eye. Senna sustained fatal skull fractures, head injuries and a ruptured temporal artery.
It was later revealed that, as medical staff examined Senna, a furled Austrian flag was found in his car—a flag that he had intended to raise in honour of Ratzenberger after the race.
So, a man that transcended the sport left us at the peak of his powers on a fateful day at Imola, 21 years ago.
Love him or hate him, you can't deny how great of a racer he was.
Attachments
@David Talle, @WanganGhost, @swiftsmith, @Pringles947, @Timlour, @J_Cameron,@Aaroh007
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@GTPvw_slc, @Pubs16, @Mikey24 , @Tijee, @Doomstorm16, @Hayden, @DaGiBUS,@Jordiehamz, @Ph1sher, @mustafur, @NinjaEvo, @Wavey2014, @True-blue-8, @Beau Albert, @LITTLEBLACKO, @Matvex
(GTOR) ATCC Driver's Briefing | Round 7 Silverstone Grand Prix
A bit of a smaler grid than what I would have wished for this race being what I feel is going to be the best track and round of the season
It's Russian Roulette Racing's home race, so Timlour and NW48 will be keen to finish in a one-two formation. Let's get on with this.
Supports
20:30 GMT+10 ~ Grass-Roots Challenge at Silverstone Stowe (125 Shifters (KZ2)
20:50 GMT+10 ~ Ayrton Senna Tribute ~ DAP Racing Kart '80 at Silverstone Stowe
21:20 GMT+10 ~ Ayrton Senna Tribite ~ WSR F3 at Silverstone International
21:30 GMT+10 ~ Ayrton Senna Tribute ~ Lotus 97T '85 at Silverstone GP
21:50 GMT+10 ~ Main Game Room Open
Estimated Time Schedule
21:50 GMT+10 ~ Room Opens
21:50 GMT+10 ~ Cars Allowed On Track
22:15 GMT+10 ~ All Cars To Pitlane
22:16 GMT+10 ~ Tech Inspection Begins
22:17 GMT+10 ~ Manual Gridding Up Process
22:20 GMT+10 - Race Begins (90mins // Two Mandatory Pit Stops)
23:50 GMT+10 ~ Race Concludes
00:00 GMT+10 ~ Room Closes
New Room Joining Method
This will only be in affect for the main game room, not the supports. We trialled this method a few rounds back and it worked with much success, so it shall return after a dismall run with the servers. You will only be permitted to join the room when I send you a message via PSN. You will need to join the room ASAP from the time I send you a message for this to work.
Pre-Q Reminder
Just a reminder that if you haven't completed a minimum of 1 Pre-Q session, you will be forced to start at the rear-of-field, not the rear of your Group, the rear of the entire field.
Group A & Group B Passing
- If a Group A car approaches a Group B car, it is the responsibility of the Group A car to pass safely, however, if it is safe to do so, the Group B car should yield off the racing line safely.
Pit Lane Entry/Exit Lines
We are at a track that has these lines, it is important to acknowledge these lines. Failure to do so will result in a 'Dangerous Driving' penalty.
Use of Text Chat
Use of Text Chat will be slightly restricted during the round. We ask that you do not spam the text box as it does result in some server instability. This is a precaution we are taking to ensure better server stability.
Recovery Time
There will be a maximum of 10mins recovery time (Disconnection/Rejoining waiting time) before a race, this time will begin once two or more people DC from the room. Once the time is up or all the problems are resolved, the race will start, no matter what.
Safety Car
The Safety Car will not be in use for this race due to the absence of the main driver, and the length of the race.
That's all from me, I'm a bit sick of looking at my phone screen typing things up, so I'll see you at the race.
#RememberSenna
A bit of a smaler grid than what I would have wished for this race being what I feel is going to be the best track and round of the season
It's Russian Roulette Racing's home race, so Timlour and NW48 will be keen to finish in a one-two formation. Let's get on with this.
Supports
20:30 GMT+10 ~ Grass-Roots Challenge at Silverstone Stowe (125 Shifters (KZ2)
20:50 GMT+10 ~ Ayrton Senna Tribute ~ DAP Racing Kart '80 at Silverstone Stowe
21:20 GMT+10 ~ Ayrton Senna Tribite ~ WSR F3 at Silverstone International
21:30 GMT+10 ~ Ayrton Senna Tribute ~ Lotus 97T '85 at Silverstone GP
21:50 GMT+10 ~ Main Game Room Open
Estimated Time Schedule
21:50 GMT+10 ~ Room Opens
21:50 GMT+10 ~ Cars Allowed On Track
22:15 GMT+10 ~ All Cars To Pitlane
22:16 GMT+10 ~ Tech Inspection Begins
22:17 GMT+10 ~ Manual Gridding Up Process
22:20 GMT+10 - Race Begins (90mins // Two Mandatory Pit Stops)
23:50 GMT+10 ~ Race Concludes
00:00 GMT+10 ~ Room Closes
New Room Joining Method
This will only be in affect for the main game room, not the supports. We trialled this method a few rounds back and it worked with much success, so it shall return after a dismall run with the servers. You will only be permitted to join the room when I send you a message via PSN. You will need to join the room ASAP from the time I send you a message for this to work.
Pre-Q Reminder
Just a reminder that if you haven't completed a minimum of 1 Pre-Q session, you will be forced to start at the rear-of-field, not the rear of your Group, the rear of the entire field.
Group A & Group B Passing
- If a Group A car approaches a Group B car, it is the responsibility of the Group A car to pass safely, however, if it is safe to do so, the Group B car should yield off the racing line safely.
Pit Lane Entry/Exit Lines
We are at a track that has these lines, it is important to acknowledge these lines. Failure to do so will result in a 'Dangerous Driving' penalty.
Use of Text Chat
Use of Text Chat will be slightly restricted during the round. We ask that you do not spam the text box as it does result in some server instability. This is a precaution we are taking to ensure better server stability.
Recovery Time
There will be a maximum of 10mins recovery time (Disconnection/Rejoining waiting time) before a race, this time will begin once two or more people DC from the room. Once the time is up or all the problems are resolved, the race will start, no matter what.
Safety Car
The Safety Car will not be in use for this race due to the absence of the main driver, and the length of the race.
That's all from me, I'm a bit sick of looking at my phone screen typing things up, so I'll see you at the race.
#RememberSenna
- 4,806
- Sweden
Retirements: 61
3.81 pts / GP
55.82 pts / season
2,981 laps led
13,430 kms led
8,219 laps raced
37,933 kms raced
Wins by different circuit: 17
Podiums by different circuit: 25
Pole and Win: 29
Win and Fastest Lap: 10
Hat trick: 7
Average starting position: 3.1
Average finishing position: 8.2
Running at finish: 97
Lead lap finish: 87
Teammate comparison
Points
Senna 614
TM 382
Wins
Senna 41
TM 15
Poles
Senna 65
TM 9
Race position head to head
Senna 92
TM 41
Qualifying head to head
Senna 140
TM 18
Fastest lap head to head
Senna 99
TM 60
Very impresssive numbers.
He may not have won the most races, or won the most championships, but if you look at stats like that, consider the time period, it all starts to sink in just how great Senna was.
As Jeremy Clarkson said, "You know, I'll be honest with you. I was never a [Ayrton] Senna fan. I always thought that Gilles Villeneuve was the greatest racing driver of them all. But to make this film, I've watched hours and hours and hours of footage and the thing is, Villeneuve was spectacular on a number of occasions. Senna, he was spectacular every single time he got in a car."
#RememberSenna
(If anyone is wondering, yes, I realise hashtags don't work, but it's a nice touch to all my posts today)
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