Atheists most distrusted minority?

[Sach]

It would be different if I were a Christian, but technically I'm Jewish which complicates things even more. Since people know I'm Jewish (I had a Bar-Mitzvah and everything) and then I tell them I'm athiest their ignorant minds get confused and they look at me like I'm a :censored:ing circus animal and tell it to all their ignorant friends who then find it funny to come up with all these jokes. Of course they're not being serious and they don't offend me but they're annoying as 🤬.I already went through it once when everyone found out I was a Jew at school, and its more if the factor more than the factor that I couldn't stand. What really pisses me off is that most of the kids who like to repeat those kind of jokes over and over are not yet mature enough to decide for themselves weather to believe in God or not.
For the most part, I think many Christians and others who believe in God subconciously know that God doesn't exist, but their Church has pressed it into their heads so many times that conciously, they have no choice but to believe in God (if that makes sense). I personally believe religion was originally created to give people a good set of morals to live by so they can live better lives. In that respect, I think religion is actually good thing. Watch the movie "The Invention of Lying." In part from it being one of the funniest movies ever, it explains how unreasonable and stupid religion really is.

Interesting post, and I actually agree with a lot of people who would argue that 'church' is often a confusing thing. For this reason, I actually dislike 'church', although as a Christian I believe in God whole-heartedly, and have had numerous undeniable experiences in His presence. Go figure. Many of them have been in a church setting, but I was fortunate there.

 

[Antonisbob]

Why is it that 90% (that's a guess) of the Internet are atheists, yet the amount of atheists in the general community is shockingly lower?

Good question. Maybe because they don't want to be hated on IRL? I tell people I am but they don't even know what it means half the time.

 

[CSLACR]

Forgot about the poll. 👍

But that's just one small sector.
Either way, people are more free on the internet, that's the good and the bad of it.
I'd trust an internet poll on this before anything.

Atheism and agnostic stats.

That's the thing. People will say "I have no religion" but not "I'm an atheist" because many people think "atheist" means worshiping the devil.

Why?!?!? Why would people think that?
Because Christians lie about it. It started by liars who call themselves "Christians", and progressed into pure ignorance from there.

If people reject you in the outside world for being an atheist then that's their problem not yours. Unless your from a very religious family, even then they should still respect your choice whether you believe in a god or not. It doesn't change who you are

Read above. People are ignorant.
Christians don't accept non-believers in general, despite what the Bible says, because Christians don't follow the Bible usually.

Some do, and I can respect them. Most I've met or heard speak do not. They have proven themselves possibly the most intolerant group of judgmental people on the planet.

 

[Sach]

That's the thing. People will say "I have no religion" but not "I'm an atheist" because many people think "atheist" means worshiping the devil.

Why?!?!? Why would people think that?
Because Christians lie about it. It started by liars who call themselves "Christians", and progressed into pure ignorance from there.

Wow, really? Source?

Christians don't accept non-believers in general, despite what the Bible says

Again, source?

Some do, and I can respect them. Most I've met or heard speak do not. They have proven themselves possibly the most intolerant group of judgmental people on the planet.

You're on a roll...


Evidence would suggest you have not met that many Christians.

 

[Schwartz]

Wow, really? Source?

I don't support all of what he said in his post, but yes, many people believe athiests worship the Devil. I just googled "atheists worship the devil" and these were the results. http://www.google.com/search?q=atheists+worship+the+devil&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari
Of course this is no real concrete data, but it deifinitely proves that some people believe Atheists worship the Devil.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Yes I found that very suprising that its 50% of people on the internet and 10% (thats just a guess, I have no source) in the real world. I'll admit that I'm an athiest on the internet but I never would in real life because most people would reject me.

I don't bring it up to people because they'll ask why. I honestly don't care to talk about it. If I'm around people that are talking about "God", I just distance myself from them until the convo is over.

 

[CSLACR]

Wow, really? Source?








Again, source?






You're on a roll...


Evidence would suggest you have not met that many Christians.

How would you like me to "source" real life encounters?
That's about an asinine request if I ever heard of one.

I'm sorry, not everything in life revolves around proving every little detail of life on the internet to people on forums.💡

Here you go, maybe this will appease you.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/atheist9.htm

Apparently the only reason to be an atheist is to skip out on having to follow the rules.
When I see Christians following the rules, it might gain some credibility. (it actually won't, but it'd help if they did)

"But without God there can be no absolute morality. That's the real reason for Atheism. It's nothing more than wanting to be your own god so you can do whatever you want.

You're right Sach, these people don't exist, I made them all up!

If your going to question the obvious, expect this.

Lastly:

Some do, and I can respect them. Most I've met or heard speak do not. They have proven themselves possibly the most intolerant group of judgmental people on the planet.

You're on a roll...

Evidence would suggest you have not met that many Christians.

The Christians that thought blacks were less then human?
The Christians that converted by the sword?
The Christians that are members of the KKK?(see above)
The Christians that stole from and slaughtered Indians?
The Christians that burned "witches" at the stake?
Ever heard of the dark ages?
So much for "freedom of religion".

How much do you want for "proof" that Christians are some of the most intolerant people on Earth?


So my retort to you, is what Christians are you talking about?

 

[Schwartz]

I don't bring it up to people because they'll ask why. I honestly don't care to talk about it. If I'm around people that are talking about "God", I just distance myself from them until the convo is over.

^This too.

 

[CSLACR]

I don't bring it up to people because they'll ask why. I honestly don't care to talk about it. If I'm around people that are talking about "God", I just distance myself from them until the convo is over.

^This too.

It's a fair point, because once you tell a believer you don't believe in God, they don't want to shut up about it.
Those may not be everyone's reason, but it's mine.

My Dad will never know, because he wouldn't take it well. Not an angry reaction, just upset and needless stress. He's perfectly fine and happy believing, on top of it I couldn't convince him otherwise even if I tried.
What's the point, really.

I have no issue with people believing in God, I have issue with people lying, and acting like animals when they find out someone doesn't. It's apparently much more common then some people realize.

 

[Sach]

You're right Sach, these people don't exist, I made them all up!

If your going to question the obvious, expect this.

Lastly:

The Christians that thought blacks were less then human?
The Christians that converted by the sword?
The Christians that are members of the KKK?(see above)
The Christians that stole from and slaughtered Indians?
The Christians that burned "witches" at the stake?
Ever heard of the dark ages?
So much for "freedom of religion".

How much do you want for "proof" that Christians are some of the most intolerant people on Earth?


So my retort to you, is what Christians are you talking about?

Those people weren't acting as Christians. Christians are followers of Christ's teachings. And furthermore, every man is a sinner. Christians will sin, but if they do these things in the name of Christ they are reduced to liars.


You are trolling, please stop. Shall I recite you the countless scriptures that say if you are following God and Christ you will show it in your works, your fruits, and most importantly in your heart?


1 John 4:20 - "Anyone who says he loves God but hates his brother, is a liar." It doesn't get any clearer.


"Christian" is nothing more than a word, out of context. I am referring to Christians as followers of Christ. Please stop trolling discussions where people are trying to be serious.

 

[Schwartz]

Lastly:

The Christians that thought blacks were less then human?
The Christians that converted by the sword?
The Christians that are members of the KKK?(see above)
The Christians that stole from and slaughtered Indians?
The Christians that burned "witches" at the stake?
Ever heard of the dark ages?
So much for "freedom of religion".

How much do you want for "proof" that Christians are some of the most intolerant people on Earth?

So my retort to you, is what Christians are you talking about?

1. Bernie Madoff was a Jew, but that doesn't make all Jews money theives.
2. Adolf Hitler was German (or Austrian, whatever), but that doesn't make all Germans Nazis.
3. Osama Bin Laden was a Muslim, but that doesn't make all Muslims terrorists.
4. People in the KKK were Christian, but that doesn't make all Christians intolerant.

Christianity is not an intolerant religion. It is a persons choice to be intolerant, no matter what religion they follow. Why does everyone actions have to be associated to their faith? Really, the two have nothing in common. There is intolerance across the whole world. Your argument is invalid, sir.

I don't believe in God, but I do believe in fair arguments and debates. And correct facts.

 

[Encyclopedia]

I can also see the point of distrusting atheists. (don't take this the wrong way though)

For someone myself, if I believed there wasn't a God, I don't see any reason why I should have morals. If it's not a sin, why not do it?

Maybe for consequences such as imprisonment or death, but that's only if you get caught.

What if I just cheat people out of things, deal dishonestly, honor no agreement? If there's no God and no such thing as sin, and if I don't get caught, why not do it? Just my opinion though, but I am a Christian. So I do believe in God and sin is something I try not to do.

This comes up so often it's incredible. When will religious people realize that morals are not a trademark of religion!

You're basically saying that you want to be a cheater and act dishonestly, but you're too afraid to do it, and I've heard many christians argue like that. It's very disturbing.

 

[A2K78]

I just don't understand it...

Being an atheist doesn't necessarily mean anything about your personal values or beliefs, you just don't believe in (a) God.

Atheists still have values and things which they believe are right and wrong, but instead of being TOLD what's right and wrong, they make their own choices, through the thought process.

I agree with all of this, and for the record, i am a religionist.

 

[homeforsummer]

You're basically saying that you want to be a cheater and act dishonestly, but you're too afraid to do it, and I've heard many christians argue like that. It's very disturbing.

I agree, that's a slightly worrying way of describing it. "If there's no God, why not rape/steal/kill?"... Err... because it's still wrong...

 

[TankAss95]

I agree, that's a slightly worrying way of describing it. "If there's no God, why not rape/steal/kill?"... Err... because it's still wrong...

I don't particularly think that's true. I think that if there is no absolute moral law in nature (impossible in naturalism) then one persons morals are as good as anyone's. In that case, good and bad is just a matter of perspective, and punishment for anything doesn't make sense.

I would encourage you to read or hear C. S. Lewis's 'Mere Christianity'. The first chapter deals with this subject.

 

[MatskiMonk]

It seems to me that religeous types are paranoid and distrusting?

Personally, I'm open minded, I don't believe in "God", not sure of what "a god" would be either, but either way, mostly I work on proof, or sound theory, same reasons I don't believe in Father Christmas anymore.

I'm suprised though that given all the anti-muslim racism we seem to get in the UK, that aetheists could be the ones that aren't trusted.

 

[Liquid]

I'm suprised though that given all the anti-muslim racism we seem to get in the UK, that aetheists could be the ones that aren't trusted.

If I've understood your post correctly, I think that's why atheists aren't as trusted. Because of things like anti-muslim sentiment, which comes from both religious and non-religious people. There are atheists who are tolerant of the fact that other people choose to believe, and there are atheists who are totally intolerant and simple-minded. Same with religious types; there are those who accept that not everybody believes and there are those who cannot accept that fact. And it's those who aren't tolerant who give a bad name to the group as a whole.

I think the UK is an interesting example because we are less fascinated with religion than the US and it is not as important in things like elections. When was the last time religion played a serious part in an election debate?

I am of the belief that there are many more agnostics in the UK than 'true' atheists. Somehow, not believing in 'a' god of some sort, or not believing that 'a' God could exist is not an acceptable idea in some parts of society. In my own social group, I do not know anybody* who takes religion seriously but I do know some people who are mildly agnostic, which is seen as a happy medium between being confident that there's nothing out there, and believing enough to be 'saved' if it turns out that God and heaven are real.

*I do know one or two people who do actively believe in God, but they are not continuous practicioners of their religion. We get on just fine and have interesting discussions on morality and philosophy.

 

[homeforsummer]

I don't particularly think that's true. I think that if there is no absolute moral law in nature

Key word there: "If".

Even if we aren't born with morals and ethics embedded into us, we quickly learn as kids the most basic stuff - treat others as you wish to be treated yourself. You get that regardless of whether you're religious or not.

However, asking the question of "why not do x bad thing if God isn't there watching us?" implies that some religious types literally only don't act badly simply because they're scared of God.

Which one is really better? Being good because you're scared of God, or being good because it's the right thing to do?

 

[Denur]

I don't want to be judge mental, but I really don't see the point to that. . .

I can also see the point of distrusting atheists. (don't take this the wrong way though)

For someone myself, if I believed there wasn't a God, I don't see any reason why I should have morals. If it's not a sin, why not do it?

Maybe for consequences such as imprisonment or death, but that's only if you get caught.

...

O dear, I hope you are just trolling and not being serious.

... I think that if there is no absolute moral law in nature (impossible in naturalism) then one persons morals are as good as anyone's. In that case, good and bad is just a matter of perspective, and punishment for anything doesn't make sense.

And here's another one. Yikes.

I do hope you guys are actually believing in God and keep doing so. You have been brainwashed so severely, that curing you could lead to some very unwanted side-effects for society.

 

[Sach]

However, asking the question of "why not do x bad thing if God isn't there watching us?" implies that some religious types literally only don't act badly simply because they're scared of God.

Which one is really better? Being good because you're scared of God, or being good because it's the right thing to do?

Why do people look at religion so black and white? Yes, some people "do good" because they are afraid of God. However, if they knew just about ANY of the New Testament, they will not desire to do good for that reason.

The vast majority of Christ-following believers do the right thing because they know it is right in their hearts.

The 'better' answer is: To do the right thing out of your own intentions, while knowing and having a relationship with the father God.

 

[Encyclopedia]

^The argument put forward by Negrumir is very common though. I've heard it so many times I've lost track. It's quite disturbing.

 

[TankAss95]

Key word there: "If".

Even if we aren't born with morals and ethics embedded into us, we quickly learn as kids the most basic stuff - treat others as you wish to be treated yourself. You get that regardless of whether you're religious or not.

However, asking the question of "why not do x bad thing if God isn't there watching us?" implies that some religious types literally only don't act badly simply because they're scared of God.

Which one is really better? Being good because you're scared of God, or being good because it's the right thing to do?

'God' can be referred to many views. In Christianity God is judge. Because we believe in eternal life (most of us do anyway) our actions before death are of infinite importance to us.

And to your last point, it doesn't make sense. If there is no such thing as absolute laws of morality given by a ultimate law giver how do you define 'good' with 'bad'?
If good is whatever is best for the survival of humanity, then there are obvious complications. Who is to decide what is beneficial or damaging to the human race? What is the point of the weak - why not kill them off, and the sooner the better?

By living as a Christian I am far happier than who I was before. Now many things, like morality, makes more sense.

 

[TankAss95]

And here's another one. Yikes.

I do hope you guys are actually believing in God and keep doing so. You have been brainwashed so severely, that curing you could lead to some very unwanted side-effects for society.

Curing me?

It seems like you are the one who needs to be 'cured' with such thoughts. You sound like Nietzsche.

Quit the attitude. It's just plain offensive.

 

[Liquid]

And to your last point, it doesn't make sense. If there is no such thing as absolute laws of morality given by a ultimate law giver how do you define 'good' with 'bad'?

Your own opinions and ideas. You develop your own relationship with the world around you, and you work out for yourself what you perceive to be just or unjust, right or wrong, moral or immoral. Now, these may be influenced by upbringing, culture and society but we, the atheists, form our own opinions on what is right and wrong, and many of our opinions coincide and overlap.

By living as a Christian I am far happier than who I was before. Now many things, like morality, makes more sense.

If you feel you are a better person and have a better understanding of your own life through religion, that is perfectly acceptable.

But I, and evidently many others on this forum, achieve a sense of contentness, a sense of right and wrong and a meaningful relationship with the world around us without a book/god/religion. We can believe or have faith in whatever we want; fate, karma, destiny, afterlife and so on, if we choose to, and many of us, like me, choose not to, because we are independant strong people who have the ability to mould our own perspectives.

 

[homeforsummer]

Why do people look at religion so black and white? Yes, some people "do good" because they are afraid of God. However, if they knew just about ANY of the New Testament, they will not desire to do good for that reason.

The vast majority of Christ-following believers do the right thing because they know it is right in their hearts.

The 'better' answer is: To do the right thing out of your own intentions, while knowing and having a relationship with the father God.

You miss my point. I'm well aware that most people do the right thing regardless, but since we've been talking about the same one person's comment in this thread, it's common sense to assume I'm still talking about it.

None of us were implying that all religionists think the same way, we were simply pointing out that the "I'm scared of God" take is a slightly worrying way to look at morality.

'God' can be referred to many views. In Christianity God is judge. Because we believe in eternal life (most of us do anyway) our actions before death are of infinite importance to us.

And I'm quite happy simply being a good person without being judged the whole time.

And to your last point, it doesn't make sense.

That's because it wasn't a point, it was a question.

Are you a good person because you're scared of the consequences of not being so, or are you good because being good to others is how you should act regardless?

If there is no such thing as absolute laws of morality given by a ultimate law giver how do you define 'good' with 'bad'?

Prove to me there are no absolute laws of morality in nature. The volume of evidence of people not harming each other for the hell of it disagrees with you. Social creatures naturally tend towards being good to each other, whether human or animal. That suggests morality is inherent.

If good is whatever is best for the survival of humanity, then there are obvious complications. Who is to decide what is beneficial or damaging to the human race? What is the point of the weak - why not kill them off, and the sooner the better?

That isn't the way society works. Survival of humanity isn't simply about being the best, it's about working towards a common goal. If you kill off the "weak" then you may be removing vital talents from the gene pool, to the detriment of society.

By living as a Christian I am far happier than who I was before. Now many things, like morality, makes more sense.

Nobody disputes that - what I'm saying is that religion isn't needed for morality. If religion didn't exist, morality still would.

 

[CodeRedR51]

But I, and evidently many others on this forum, achieve a sense of contentness, a sense of right and wrong and a meaningful relationship with the world around us without a book/god/religion. We can believe or have faith in whatever we want; fate, karma, destiny, afterlife and so on, if we choose to, and many of us, like me, choose not to, because we are independant strong people who have the ability to mould our own perspectives.

👍

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

Lastly:

The Christians that thought blacks were less then human?
The Christians that converted by the sword?
The Christians that are members of the KKK?(see above)
The Christians that stole from and slaughtered Indians?
The Christians that burned "witches" at the stake?
Ever heard of the dark ages?
So much for "freedom of religion".

How much do you want for "proof" that Christians are some of the most intolerant people on Earth?


So my retort to you, is what Christians are you talking about?

Do you know anyone in connection (or used to be) with the KKK? I have a friend who father was a leader of a local KKK group. His mother was a Christian who went to church faithfully. The group mocked and made fun of Christians yet he remember his father stood up and said what's wrong with Christians as all they do is pray and sing hymns. His father eventually did become a Christian later in life.
Since it's not Christians business to judge who belongs to God and who don't, we have to give people the benefit of the doubt when they claimed they are Christians.

Nobody disputes that - what I'm saying is that religion isn't needed for morality. If religion didn't exist, morality still would.

I totally agree as even scripture pointed out God written the law in man's heart.

 

[alexleighton]

Hmm. Well I don't trust religious people, so I guess the feeling is mutual.

 

[Grand Prix]

If some people need a belief in God in order to be moral, then for their own and other people's sake, I hope they continue in their belief.

 

[TankAss95]

None of us were implying that all religionists think the same way, we were simply pointing out that the "I'm scared of God" take is a slightly worrying way to look at morality.

And it is a wrong way.

And I'm quite happy simply being a good person without being judged the whole time.

As am I, before and after I became Christian. I am not being judged, I believe that everyone will be judged.

Are you a good person because you're scared of the consequences of not being so, or are you good because being good to others is how you should act regardless?

It's an unfair question. Does a man eat to keep himself healthy, or because he enjoys eating? Before I was a Christian I suppose I was a good person. After I became a Christian I remained largely the same but for another reason.
I hate to call myself a 'good person' all the time. I do have faults, but I constantly try to improve. I'm just using this type of simplistic language for simplicity in the sake of discussion.

Prove to me there are no absolute laws of morality in nature. The volume of evidence of people not harming each other for the hell of it disagrees with you. Social creatures naturally tend towards being good to each other, whether human or animal. That suggests morality is inherent.

I am trying to prove to you exactly that. I believe there is such a thing as an absolute law of marality in nature, and it is given from an absolute law giver (God).

That isn't the way society works. Survival of humanity isn't simply about being the best, it's about working towards a common goal. If you kill off the "weak" then you may be removing vital talents from the gene pool, to the detriment of society.

Yes, but how about the people with severe mental problems? It would seem logical to get rid of these people as they cannot bring wealth etc to the community, yet most of us (I hope so, anyway) considers this sickeningly immoral.
We, as human beings, see life as being invaluable. We strive to give the best quality of life to the disadvantaged, and we know that in doing so it is perfectly moral.

Nobody disputes that - what I'm saying is that religion isn't needed for morality. If religion didn't exist, morality still would.

I would like to make it clear that I am not here supporting religion as a whole, but rather supporting my own particular religion. Grouping all religious people into one bunch is just wrong. There's a big difference between religious extremists in the middle east and the Amish, for example.
I do agree with you, but western society is highly influenced by Christianity, so many things you and I enjoy today do stem from religion.