Attack on magazine Charlie Hebdo in Paris.

  • Thread starter Dennisch
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Famine
No it's not.

You may take it as such if you wish, but a personal insult is, as the name suggests, one that is delivered to a person.

And that's without even visiting the concept of how insulting it can be to make a picture of someone. Pretty sure I wasn't being insulted in my wedding photos...No, I'll most likely ignore you.Some people take any kind of criticism as a personal insult and find it offensive.Why?Do you have pictures of yourself, your parents, your wife, your kids?Why? I just told you I wouldn't start a fight with you for 'offending' me in the street - despite you saying that it's the most likely outcome. Why do you think so poorly of your fellow man that they can't be offended without resorting to physical reprisals?To quote someone earlier:Don't defend people who think that it's appropriate to take offence at random things, take them personally and then shoot at other, unconnected people in response. They are absolutely in the wrong and should not be accepted or excused by any community.
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Ok, just 'insult' then ... It's not 'picture' or 'photos', it is ridiculing drawings and the "winner" get a prize of $10,000. There are no pictures of any prophet. Only what people draw. Out of religious reasons or otherwise ... You Famine might/will ignore me, but a lot of people won't. Just like most Muslim's ignored charlie hebdo and this contest. But those two idiot shooters didn't ... Yes I have pictures of myself and family. Like i said those are ridiculing drawings ... Just like there are stupid people that shoot there are stupid people that insult. I don't think its right to shoot anyone unless your protecting yourself from someone that is intending on killing you, wife, family, like a robber/killer/rapist/thief invading your house.

Scaff
Does it really matter that much?

As for setting up roadblocks? Quite frankly its shouldn't even be needed, nor should it be done ideally as it gives the impression to terrorists that they are winning.



No its not, you may project that onto you but unless you are now claiming to be Mo then its not a personal insult at all.



No I wouldn't, mainly because I'm aware of proportionality, you however seem not to be.



What about if you take the criticism as being offensive? At what point does the line get drawn? Should the line be drawn?

Are religious figures and your faith in them so weak that they are unable to stand criticism and offence? Why does the country you're in (from your stated location) make a habit of locking people up and beating them for being critical?



Nope, sorry, attacking someone for what you perceive as an insult to a dead bloke is just as pathetic.
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It's always better to be safe than sorry. You can't slack on security and risk peoples lives for the benefit of mind games with terrorists/criminals ... As I pointed out in the reply above. Ok it's not 'personal', but still an insult to all Muslims ... I am aware of proportionality and distinction as they are part of Sharia law. You however assuming that I don't know what it means insulting, closed minded and uncalled for by you. But I wouldn't just stand there while some guy is in my mothers/child/wife's face in the street shouting at her and insulting her. So in proportion I should come and stand in his face right ? He didn't touch her. But I can't stand in his face because he's in my family's face. And plus it's not me personally he's doing it to. So I cant do anything to him because he's not attacking me personally ? So tell me what to do next ? If you can tolerate that happening to your family then i don't.
 
lGNAl
It's always better to be safe than sorry. You can't slack on security and risk peoples lives for the benefit of mind games with terrorists/criminals ...
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Its better to not give them the impression they are winning as that simply emboldens they and causes further attacks, I do come from a country with quite a track record of dealing with this.


lGNAl
As I pointed out in the reply above. Ok it's not 'personal', but still an insult to all Muslims ...
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No its not, it an insult to a man who died over a thousand years ago.


lGNAl
I am aware of proportionality and distinction as they are part of Sharia law. You however assuming that I don't know what it means insulting, closed minded and uncalled for by you. But I wouldn't just stand there while some guy is in my mothers/child/wife's face in the street shouting at her and insulting her. So in proportion I should come and stand in his face right ? He didn't touch her. But I can't stand in his face because he's in my family's face. And plus it's not me personally he's doing it to. So I cant do anything to him because he's not attacking me personally ? So tell me what to do next ? If you can tolerate that happening to your family then i don't.
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If your aware of proportionality then why did you say that the most likely response to an insult would be to get into a fight? As it almost sounds as if you are attempting to justify the actions these terrorist took?

Now I will tell you exactly what I did when my family was subjected to racist abuse, we walked away.
 
Unless I'm misunderstanding, are you comparing someone drawing the Prophet the same as someone insulting your family?

If so, you know this is exactly what this group is "protesting" against, right? That we are allowed to draw (& poke fun) at all religions under Freedom of Speech, but your religion is seemingly, the one for censorship on that right only when it affects them. Why don't Muslims ask that no religious figures of any religion not be shown? It could possibly gain more support from other religious groups who don't like how their Gods have been projected by the entertainment industry*.

*Not personally advocating the removal of all religious figures from media, just hypothetical question of why not all instead of just theirs.
 
lGNAl
Ok, just 'insult' then...
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Which is something completely different.

One might suggest that a response to a personal insult is in some way understandable (a violent one not so much), but a response to an insult directed at someone or something else?
lGNAl
It's not 'picture' or 'photos', it is ridiculing drawings and the "winner" get a prize of $10,000.
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Last I checked, drawings are pictures.

"Ridiculing drawings" are pretty much satire and there are people in newspapers who've made careers worth way more than $10,000 out of doing so - dating back centuries. Gerald Scarfe, Chris Riddell - here, check out this one by Peter Brookes:

3549c383a226df2724588120.jpg
lGNAl
There are no pictures of any prophet. Only what people draw.
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So if these pictures don't look like any of the prophets - and without knowing what they looked like, the chances of drawing a picture at random and getting Mohammed's actual face are quite slim - what's the problem?
lGNAl
You Famine might/will ignore me, but a lot of people won't.
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What makes you say that? What evidence do you have to bring that "a lot" of people will physically confront you if you offend them?
lGNAl
Just like most Muslim's ignored charlie hebdo and this contest. But those two idiot shooters didn't ...
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Wait... now you're suggesting that most Muslims won't physically confront people who offend them with the most offensive thing you say that can be done - but the rest of the non-Muslims will be up in your grill if you offend them?

I'd suggest that your latter set of numbers is wrong. Most people will not react physically or violently to a perceived offence, Muslim or not.
lGNAl
Yes I have pictures of myself and family.
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TenEightyOne
Do you like my current avatar? I fancied a change from Mr. Thompson.
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Thompson died under unhappy circumstances, likely by his own hand. It's good that you not emulate him too closely.

However, your new avatar would seem to tempt the hand of Fate even worse. We hope that you've sown your wild seeds, lived the good life, and are now prepared to meet destiny with calm and assured equanimity as the Cosmic Joker prepares a room for you in his mansion.:rolleyes:
 
TenEightyOne
Do you like my current avatar? I fancied a change from Mr. Thompson.
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Is that you ? And why you look so ugly with a bomb on your head ?

Scaff
Its better to not give them the impression they are winning as that simply emboldens they and causes further attacks, I do come from a country with quite a track record of dealing with this.

No its not, it an insult to a man who died over a thousand years ago.

If your aware of proportionality then why did you say that the most likely response to an insult would be to get into a fight? As it almost sounds as if you are attempting to justify the actions these terrorist took?

Now I will tell you exactly what I did when my family was subjected to racist abuse, we walked away.
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Famine
Which is something completely different.

One might suggest that a response to a personal insult is in some way understandable (a violent one not so much), but a response to an insult directed at someone or something else?Last I checked, drawings are pictures.

"Ridiculing drawings" are pretty much satire and there are people in newspapers who've made careers worth way more than $10,000 out of doing so - dating back centuries. Gerald Scarfe, Chris Riddell - here, check out this one by Peter Brookes:

3549c383a226df2724588120.jpg
So if these pictures don't look like any of the prophets - and without knowing what they looked like, the chances of drawing a picture at random and getting Mohammed's actual face are quite slim - what's the problem?What makes you say that? What evidence do you have to bring that "a lot" of people will physically confront you if you offend them?Wait... now you're suggesting that most Muslims won't physically confront people who offend them with the most offensive thing you say that can be done - but the rest of the non-Muslims will be up in your grill if you offend them?

I'd suggest that your latter set of numbers is wrong. Most people will not react physically or violently to a perceived offence, Muslim or not.
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Ok then, I guess we agree to disagree. :)
 
lGNAl
Is that you ? And why you look so ugly with a bomb on your head ?
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It's Mohammed, actually. Rather a good likeness... but of course I can only guess.

Is the act of somebody drawing Mohammed more offensive when one knows it's happened than if one simply saw a picture purporting to be of Mohammed but one was unaware?

lGNAl
Ok then, I guess we agree to disagree. :)
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You must have quite a violent outlook on life if you feel that the majority are likely to answer offence with violence, that's pretty weird.
 
KSaiyu
You endorse terrorism then.
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I wouldn't go that far. Well, it depends what kind of "violence" he's saying he would respond with. If it's physical vs. being guns/bombs. Neither is correct as the one insulted can walk away.
 
Blitz24
I wouldn't go that far. Well, it depends what kind of "violence" he's saying he would respond with. If it's physical vs. being guns/bombs. Neither is correct as the one insulted can walk away.
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It's black or white with terrorism, you either condemn or condone it. There shouldn't be "Well this is abhorrent and I hate that they kill in the name of my religion, but what did they expect"
 
KSaiyu
It's black or white with terrorism, you either condemn or condone it. There shouldn't be "Well this is abhorrent and I hate that they kill in the name of my religion, but what did they expect"
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I agree, that line of thought reads a lot like victim blaming to me. She wore a short skirt and acted flirty, she was asking for it...Charlie Hebdo knew their cartoons were controversial, what did they expect to happen?

Sickens me that people would side with those who use violence and murder when they're offended.
 
If the EDL were to exercise the right of free speech and hold a draw-the-prophet contest that resulted in loss of innocent life, would that be any different from a liberal organization taking a similar action with a similar result? I conjecture that it potentially would, for reason of differing motives.
 
KSaiyu
It's black or white with terrorism, you either condemn or condone it.
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While that may be true you ignore the possibility that terrorism is difficult to define. For people to be for/against any given thing they have have a definition of what it actually is in the first place.

That can be very much a point-of-view thing, even amongst acknowledged experts. If you're one of the people who believe that the Iraq war was illegal then surely the actions of the allies were terrorism?
 
Guess we can call the Muhammad event...

....a Muslim bait.....

I mean seriously, thanks for those shootings, muslims in general now have an even worse name. Thank you for your disproportionate retribution.

Free speech should be responded by an equally free speech, not a *censored* mass murder!
 
TenEightyOne
It's Mohammed, actually. Rather a good likeness... but of course I can only guess.

Is the act of somebody drawing Mohammed more offensive when one knows it's happened than if one simply saw a picture purporting to be of Mohammed but one was unaware?
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You are taking a mighty big risk by drawing and circulating to the world such an offensive depiction. Of course, we will (briefly) mourn your loss should you be taken from us. But what about the loss of Jordan and Egypt from the diminishing stable of client dictatorships we are pleased to call our allies? Is the celebration of one man's rights worth the loss of millions of friends and allies? Does your liberal's intent to "do good" justify any and all disasters that may accrue from your actions? Is there a qualitative difference between the lives of just a few innocents, and the loss of thousands or millions? Are you rashly putting your own pleasures and privileges ahead of those of an entire nation whose fate is tied up with positive and productive relations with superstitious religionists? You certainly have the right to throw yourself under the bus, and maybe the right to jeopardize the future of your like-minded friends, family and countrymen. However, as one who lives in a peaceful and stable community including Muslims, I am respectfully requesting that you remove your offensive avatar because I disagree that you have the right to endanger myself and my community who do not necessarily hold the same philosophy as you that do-gooder motives justify horrible unintended consequences.
 
Dotini
You are taking a mighty big risk by drawing and circulating to the world such an offensive depiction. Of course, we will (briefly) mourn your loss should you be taken from us. But what about the loss of Jordan and Egypt from the diminishing stable of client dictatorships we are pleased to call our allies? Is the celebration of one man's rights worth the loss of millions of friends and allies? Does your liberal's intent to "do good" justify any and all disasters that may accrue from your actions? Is there a qualitative difference between the lives of just a few innocents, and the loss of thousands or millions? Are you rashly putting your own pleasures and privileges ahead of those of an entire nation whose fate is tied up with positive and productive relations with superstitious religionists? You certainly have the right to throw yourself under the bus, and maybe the right to jeopardize the future of your like-minded friends, family and countrymen. However, as one who lives in a peaceful and stable community including Muslims, I am respectfully requesting that you remove your offensive avatar because I disagree that you have the right to endanger myself and my community who do not necessarily hold the same philosophy as you that do-gooder motives justify horrible unintended consequences.
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I completely Disagree on your premise, However whilst I may or may not agree with such an action I would always defend the right to make it.

The consequence on the other hand..
 
mustafur
I completely Disagree on your premise, However whilst I may or may not agree with such an action I would always defend the right to make it.

The consequence on the other hand..
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The consequence on the other hand...should never be murder for engaging in free speech or drawing a cartoon...in a civilized society.

Looks like there's a hit out on Pam Geller from the jerks at ISIS:

http://www.breitbart.com/national-s...ement-threatening-to-slaughter-pamela-geller/

The statement– posted on the site justpaste.it, which is a popular landing spot for much of the Islamic State’s output– serves both to warn Geller personally and threaten the nation at large. “Our aim was the khanzeer [“swine“] Pamela Geller and to show her that we don’t care what land she hides in or what sky shields her; we will send all our Lions to achieve her slaughter,” it reads, adding that the attack was perpetrated by “the Islamic State in America” and “the next month will be interesting.” It warns that “everyone who houses her events, gives her a platform to spill her filth are legitimate targets.”
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They also claim broad representation in the U.S.:

We have 71 trained soldiers in 15 different states ready at our word to attack any target we desire. Out of the 71 trained soldiers 23 have signed up for missions like Sunday, We are increasing in number bithnillah. Of the 15 states, 5 we will name… Virginia, Maryland, Illinois, California, and Michigan.
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Wasn't implying Murder or even violence, and certianly don't condone it or think it is remotely justifed.

The Social Consequence alone can be brutal.

The Person should understand and be accountable for any Lawfull Backlash they may cause from their actions.
 

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