Shootings and explosions in Paris.
- Thread starter Dennisch
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- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
- 6,377
- Nantes
- P308R
The results don't come as a surprise. It's shameful to see how the 'ancient' powers are desperately using all kind of undemocratic tools to stay in power.
You can agree or disagree with the FN but political parties should not undermine à democratic proces by telling the people what's best for them. Média is inviting on prime-time Sarkozy and Valls to say to not vote FN. It's disgusting to see.
We will see sunday how it works out but a big part of the population is fed up with PS and UMP.
Once again Marine le Pen openly says people are free to vote whatever they want. While the other parties say You can vote but it has to be one of us.... Go figure
I think they (UMPS) even enlarge the anger of the public by doing this.
The young génération seems to vote massively for FN. That came to quiet à surprise for me.
mister dog
(Banned)
- 8,396
- Spain
- misterdog
- misterdog7
Sure Belgium and Holland will follow suit with Vlaams belang and Wilders. People want a hard line policy against immigration and criminality at the moment which makes them vote for these parties. I doubt populists will be good governors though once they are in power but we'll see.
- 6,377
- Nantes
- P308R
If you read their program I don't see à lot of populist points. Also saying extrême right doesn't fit with FN.
- 10,270
- Bonn
- GTAce
You're kidding, right? One step more to the right and the party wouldn't be allowed to participate in any votings.
- 6,377
- Nantes
- P308R
It's probably what the german media writes (french as well..) but it's not extreme right (anymore). You can't put that definition on that party. They don't make one single statement based on race nor they indoctrinate on race.
Their program consists of parts from rightwing parties and parts from leftwing parties so you can't just put the stamp extreme right on that.
True that it used to be a far right party under guidance of JM le Pen but since his daugther M le Pen took over it steadily moved more and more towards the left.
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- 10,270
- Bonn
- GTAce
She might not be a Nazi, unlike other party members, but she's a right wing, backwards thinking, 'christian' conservative. The opposite of what this world needs.
- 29,260
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
The FN strike me as a bit like the BNP - a far-right party seeking mainstream acceptance by publicly renouncing racism and extremist views... but their polished public image is more of a front than anything else, and ultimately they are still a far right party when push comes to shove.
Just like the Intelligent Design movement seeks to promote creationism without ever mentioning God, far right parties across Europe seek popular support by toning down their core ideas for the uninitiated.
Just like the Intelligent Design movement seeks to promote creationism without ever mentioning God, far right parties across Europe seek popular support by toning down their core ideas for the uninitiated.
- 10,270
- Bonn
- GTAce
Tell me about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_for_Germany
- 6,377
- Nantes
- P308R
It's not what I think they are @Touring Mars Their program is clear and it's not fearmongering they do. Yes they are for strict migration policies and souvereignity of the country. Their views on multiculturism are clear as well. Nothing new and nothing the public can't read.
We have had 30 years of politics which brought our social system to it's knees. People are fed up in hearing the same story over and over again and that's why currently the FN climbs in the elections. They have another way of spending public money, another way to promote cooperation between European countries, another way of improving local economy and I think that is the reason people want to give it a try. No-one believes they have the magic pill but their different way of approaching is a fresh welcome.
Maybe I am completely wrong but for the moment all the villages the FN governs are doing well and the inhabitants seem happy with it.
The current parties that are in power UMP and PS drop all their political beliefs they stand for to form a block against the FN. How would you as voter feel when your leftwing party starts to openly support a rightwing party to fight another political party. I find that disguisting and against all democratics beliefs. It's betraying your voters just to stay in power.
I think that it is the UMP and PS that are very afraid of the FN. They are the onces that fearmonger once again not the FN.
We'll see how it turns out this sunday
We have had 30 years of politics which brought our social system to it's knees. People are fed up in hearing the same story over and over again and that's why currently the FN climbs in the elections. They have another way of spending public money, another way to promote cooperation between European countries, another way of improving local economy and I think that is the reason people want to give it a try. No-one believes they have the magic pill but their different way of approaching is a fresh welcome.
Maybe I am completely wrong but for the moment all the villages the FN governs are doing well and the inhabitants seem happy with it.
The current parties that are in power UMP and PS drop all their political beliefs they stand for to form a block against the FN. How would you as voter feel when your leftwing party starts to openly support a rightwing party to fight another political party. I find that disguisting and against all democratics beliefs. It's betraying your voters just to stay in power.
I think that it is the UMP and PS that are very afraid of the FN. They are the onces that fearmonger once again not the FN.
We'll see how it turns out this sunday
- 2,471
- Paris
- Milouse
- Milouse
Yes he can. MLP (Marine Le Pen) tried to sue every one claming this a couple of years ago. But she ended giving up on this matter. Guess why: There are negastionists and néonazies everywhere around the Le Pen!
A few pics to refresh your memory (page in french, but pics 2 to 5 are self-explanatory):
https://matthieulepine.wordpress.co...s-douteuses-du-front-national-en-cinq-images/
Yes, we're talking Nazism, Waffen SS and 3rd Reich commemorations attendance, nothing less.
Their wheel of success is xenophobia, not racism, how is that better?
Furthermore, if you look besides the carefully controlled "statement", you have racism everywhere. As in the singing in every FN meeting "On est chez nous". Or as with this FN local candidate who's been condemned for posting depiction of the black skin woman current minister of justice as... a monkey (!). As her defense to public TV, she said she shouldn't have posted that, but that our minister should better climb back in the trees instead of trying politic.
Yes, indeed, as they adapt to their audience depending of the region: Nationalism in the South, (pseudo)Socialism in the North. National-Socialism.
To land somewhere so much to the left that Nigel Farage (UKeep) judge it too far to his right to make an alliance with it.
Maybe it would be time for you to face and assume what you're voting for.
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- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
HKS racer
(Banned)
- 4,802
I think it's time for all the people like you to realize what kind of people you voted until today.
Fake moralism at the service of local bankers which are just puppets at the service of bigger bankers, oilmen and arms industry. Politicians who created the basis of an uncontrolled mass immigration pursuing their own interests telling lies to their people. With their indoctrination of stupidity and negligence masked by false ideals they allowed places like Molenbeek to become a ghetto of daesh bombers just under their noses. And you are here still talking about left and right. Amazing.
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
You guess wrong... unless the Polish Constitution Day Parade is known for being the best day out for some National Association of Serial Killers. The difference is that Schonhuber was publicly known for founding the Republikaner parts and was a "celebrated" proponent of some pretty odious far-right views.
Clowns may be scary but I think it's fair to say that at that time nobody knew just how scary they could get.
It's hard to disagree with your comments about bankers... but otherwise you seem to think that Belgium has a single political structure above it. The country is effectively governed in three separate parts and has only just attained a stable "single" government at the peak. Lessons can be learned there for sure but I don't think any single group of politicians can be held to blame for the problems coming out of Molenbeek.
HKS racer
(Banned)
- 4,802
Of course they are to blame. The knew what kind of people they were "hosting", they covered everything with lies and prepackaged stories for moralistic masses, until lost control of the situation and 130 people died in Paris. But it's not only Belgium it's the whole European Union policy that lead to this nonsense. They exploited their nations and the blood of european citizens for their own interests and now they tried to randomly fix it and tell us everything is ok.
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- P308R
Yes yes xenophobia, extreme right, neo nazis, everytime the same stuff that is pulled out of an old hat.
The FN didn't hide some of their members that had racist views but they took action and excluded them from their party. If they are that racist and xenophobe why would moderate muslims and moderate jews vote for them or join them? That wouldn't make sense.
I think the FN becomes more and more of an serious alternative no-mather what "race" or "religion".
The FN didn't hide some of their members that had racist views but they took action and excluded them from their party. If they are that racist and xenophobe why would moderate muslims and moderate jews vote for them or join them? That wouldn't make sense.
I think the FN becomes more and more of an serious alternative no-mather what "race" or "religion".
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- 2,471
- Paris
- Milouse
- Milouse
Allow me to skip your pointless and predictable rhetoric trick you get straight from Le Pen mouth, as i want to stick to facts, and not arg around how many times one would need to be call xenophobic before you can legitimately forget it is.
FN doesn't exlude their racists because they are, but only once medias bring their speech on national news. Their message on their Facebook/Twitter has then been liked by thousands of their partisans during weeks before the exclusion ; if FN was as healthy as you think, these people wouldn't even dare say such things. But they live in a bath of racism, amalgams and xenophobia.
As for the muslim and jews you call moderate, i don't see your point, especially when FN gather around 30% of votes (so between 15% and 30% of people old enough to vote) in the country. I don't think for a second so much people have a clue for what they are voting for, beyond their wish to break "the system". Especially when studies shows that FN vote is way stronger in young and of lower education level population.
@HKS racer I'm glad for you that you have such a level of perception that you know what i voted in the past and today elections based on a post which sole purpose was to see extreme right named extreme right and not progressive. I also don't doubt that you have such internal french politic knowledge to state that the only path to leave status quo is the extreme right one. Or maybe i do.
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- P308R
So if people have no clue what they vote for. Well that shows clearly with the people who vote for the current political parties that are in power. They bring the country to it's knees and still they keep voting for them. One even retracts its list to support and other political party with a different program. It's completely undemocratic and shows really of no leadership or respect for the democracy.
I know we disagree completely on the FN and that's fine. I like the way le Pen, Marechal or Philippot are clear and take no de-tour to adresse certain problems. They put the finger exactly where it hurts in French society and they have the courage to name it. It makes a lot of politicians very uncomfortable.
The future will show if the FN is the party that they say they are when they come to power but I really think that you should look deeply into current PS and UMP because they are not at all who they say they are. Just look at the state of France and it's huge decline, the proof is right in front of your eyes.
Your point that younger people (add middle class as well) and people with lower education vote FN is also an easy way to score. If all the social problems would take place in front of the doors of doctors, lawyers and dentist their voting habits would be completely different.
Last: I am sure you have seen the mayor (socialist if I am correct) from Calais who has handed out signed letters that you have the right to pass to enter certain era's to return to your place. Reminds me of the second world war! What do you think of that? I find it disgusting.
I know we disagree completely on the FN and that's fine. I like the way le Pen, Marechal or Philippot are clear and take no de-tour to adresse certain problems. They put the finger exactly where it hurts in French society and they have the courage to name it. It makes a lot of politicians very uncomfortable.
The future will show if the FN is the party that they say they are when they come to power but I really think that you should look deeply into current PS and UMP because they are not at all who they say they are. Just look at the state of France and it's huge decline, the proof is right in front of your eyes.
Your point that younger people (add middle class as well) and people with lower education vote FN is also an easy way to score. If all the social problems would take place in front of the doors of doctors, lawyers and dentist their voting habits would be completely different.
Last: I am sure you have seen the mayor (socialist if I am correct) from Calais who has handed out signed letters that you have the right to pass to enter certain era's to return to your place. Reminds me of the second world war! What do you think of that? I find it disgusting.
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HKS racer
(Banned)
- 4,802
You just show the speaking with people like you is a complete waste of time. Keep living in your little cloud of nonsense and label all the ones that don't share your point of view as xenophobic racist and other random BS you prefer. I do not care.
Just one thing, hope to not be the next victim in the next terrorist attack.
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
I think he was naming a party in particular, it's you who labelled everybody else in that sentence.
Of course he does. And I'm sure he hopes you aren't, and I hope I'm not, and so it goes on. Of course... we're far more likely to be hit by buses than by terrorists. In fact, in the UK I'm far more likely to be killed by a crashing police vehicle than by a terrorist, I guess that's just how it goes.
I suppose the line you're trying to draw is between a lack of isolationist, nationalist policies and a freedom for terrorism. That would be a wholly incorrect assumption. I'd further suggest that if you'd followed the history of the Le Pen family and "their" party (both before the family division and after) then you'd hopefully understand why many people continue to associate them with the far-right position that they once openly occupied. When you look at their latest very-polished manifesto (it's worth a read, it's cleverly done) then you can see why people vote for their headline policies. That manifesto doesn't mean that the whole party has been brainwashed or that it wouldn't be right to continue to wonder if they've genuinely abandoned that far-right political ground.
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- Milouse
- Milouse
The country is facing problems, and have huge ones in front of it. But if i must name one that would put it to its knees, it the rise of populism through FN. The fear of its success shut down every serious debate in France about other serious matters. Actually, the main problem of France is fear. FN is both the result and a cause of that, hence a very difficult vicious circle to leave.
Again, you're quoting a Le Pen punchline without substance. How is that undemocratic to give up on in election in order to counter a candidate (and its list)? This happens in every local elections for decades. This is an election for a regional assembly, proportional and based on candidates lists. The thing is the list that comes first get 25% of bonus seats, so there's is not point to let your political enemy secure such a majority that your voice wouldn't count anyway. The left prefer to have no seat in an assembly hold by the right, than to have some spectator seats in an extreme right assembly. By being an enemy for many, and not just a political opponent, FN has to face this situation. They play citizens off against eachother: for once, they reap what they have sown.
Correction: they ARE the finger.
Hopefully they won't have their chance. My main concern is how long it would damage France reputation to have an FN experience (Berlusconi have turned Italy into a political satellite we barely notice today), and how it would hurt all the European economy. Our neighbors should have serious concern about what is happening in France.
As for LR and PS, these are big party that reunite multi current of ideas, not a lucrative* family business. You won't find secret agendas there, because they barley know what their official agenda is... You can blame them for lot of things, not that.
*: The FN is currently sued for a 10 millions euro fraud that occurred at the last election.
Yes, another lie (and quote) from Le Pen this morning. Why would she care to stick to the truth, when her militants are feed with internet media fully dedicated to her propaganda? The mayor, LR not socialist, is suing her btw.
During the same itw, Le Pen was asked several times to say what she thinks of the Donald Trump proposal about closing US frontier to all muslims. She repeatedly refused to answer. She can't: the more she says besides throwing populist baits, the more she split opinions about her. I'm sure you have an opinion about that, but she doesn't want you to know her.
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HKS racer
(Banned)
- 4,802
Hopes are not enough we have to make it happen. Not with words, rethorics, labels, but facts.
Facts are telling us that 130 people had to die before this mass of scoundrels took the minimum safety measures to get on with everyday life.
Nato nations now are jabbering talking and wasting time as usual. These useless douchebags can't even agree on how to divide the cake of oil wells when daesh are defeated, because that's the real goal at the end of the day, get more oil for a lesser price / sell more oil to your allies.
So they just prefer to blame someone else like Russia because they are actually doing something, eventually destroying some wells in the process.
Left and Right quarrel is a small picture that we europeans love to watch. Some people spend their life telling us how bad are the people of other party, some spend their life listening them showing off an automatic sense of indignation
about everthing from the "other side". But I have some breaking news: Marine Le Pen is not her father.
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- Bratvegas
- GTP_Liquid
The "same old rhetoric" that these right-wing populists say the establishment is feeding us, is the exact same old rhetoric that the right-wing populists have been feeding us since time immemorial.
The rabbit hole isn't getting any deeper, it's become a socio-political purgatory. As cyclical as eating your own Brad.
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- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
The French voters spoke with their ballots though, after a solid first round FN didn't take a single region in the second. The people have, of course, been brainwashed by an establishment agenda.
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