Shootings and explosions in Paris.

[Tornado]

Yes Canada is taking 25000, at a cost if about 2 billion dollars. Interesting that we can't afford to treat our Vetrans with PTSD that were in war torn areas, but we can take refugees that are from war torn areas.

I'd place more stock in this argument, and the similar arguments put up by the US governors, if there was any indication that people actually cared about suffering veterans and/or domestic homeless when the topic of discussion actually had to do with them rather than just bringing it up because the government is going to allow political refuge to extremely small amounts of displaced Muslims TERRORISM.

 

[killerjimbag]

What evidence do you have that they haven't been doing that? There is easier ways for terrorists to come in to Canada that don't involve faking a refugee status. They can take a plane. They can come from the States.

Well your States have said no! So I guess us 🤬 idiot Canadians should just pony up. Ask the EU how things are working out. Hell Belgium is shut down.

 

[DK]

16 people have been arrested in anti-terror raids across Belgium, but Salah Abdesalam remains at large. (BBC)

 

[Joel]

Well your States have said no! So I guess us 🤬 idiot Canadians should just pony up. Ask the EU how things are working out. Hell Belgium is shut down.

Ah so turns out it has nothing to do with money at all!

Truly, I'm shocked.

 

[Johnnypenso]

This is nonsensical rambling. 1.2B over 6 years is a trivial amount of money for a country as rich as Canada. This program is not what is preventing money being spent on supporting veterans, aboriginal women, or homeless people.

$1.2Billion over 6 years for 25,000 people is a ridiculously low estimation and nowhere near reality anywhere outside a government budget office. That's $8k per person per year. In what city in Canada are you going to house, clothe, feed and provide healthcare, education, transportation, training etc. for $8k a year? I'd like to know where that is so I can move there. Healthcare alone is $6k per person in Canada and we're talking about people whose healthcare needs, in the short term at least, are likely much higher than the average Canadian. So for $2k per person you are going to feed, clothe, educate, house, transport etc? Not a chance.

We'll never see the actually numbers short of a report from the Auditor General way down the road that only the Toronto Sun will report on or an investigation by the RCMP, but I'd be shocked it if was less than $3Billion and also shocked if the costs did not continue on for a very long time. The elderly parents and grandparents will also be allowed to come over and they'll be given an automatic pension as well.

 

[TenEightyOne]

$1.2Billion over 6 years for 25,000 people is a ridiculously low estimation and nowhere near reality anywhere outside a government budget office.

Absolutely right, you've completely forgotten to consider the state input from those people when they work, when they spend their money on taxable items and when they contribute to the community. For your extrapolation to work you have to presume that every single one of those people will sit there taking the money and doing nothing. That will be true of some as it's true of a section of any populace, of course. It will be far from true for the majority.

 

[jimipitbull]

Absolutely right, you've completely forgotten to consider the state input from those people when they work, when they spend their money on taxable items and when they contribute to the community. For your extrapolation to work you have to presume that every single one of those people will sit there taking the money and doing nothing. That will be true of some as it's true of a section of any populace, of course. It will be far from true for the majority.

I'd make them sign a waiver, tax them at a higher rate.

 

[dxm8975]

Well your States have said no! So I guess us 🤬 idiot Canadians should just pony up. Ask the EU how things are working out. Hell Belgium is shut down.

Belgium is obviously going to be resistant to accept refugees that came over from middle eastern countries such as Iraq and Syria as a result of military conflicts and air bombings of drones of the western nations like U.S, France and Russia, since it's currently under highest level of political alert after the suicide bombings / raid attacks of French policemen in St-Denis in an attempt to slaughter the remaining accomplices of the terrorist attacks including their "masterbrain", who at the end had just dropped his own head in the raid attacks, along with his cousin Hasna Ait Boulahcen who got blasted away to death. I guess it's not lifting down the alert unless Belgian police eventually discover the hideouts of the ISIL terrorists and whereabouts of Salah Abdeslam who's on the run in the country at the moment.

As for the programs for taking the Syrian refugees in Japan, I doubt our prime minister has already set on his mind to "officially" accept these refugees / immigrants with certain amount of office budget - at the least, as far as I'm aware of it he ain't going to squander too much money for these refugees' cause as he's focusing more on augmenting the future population of the country by shooting for higher birth rate per one woman(As many of you guys might know, the Japan's population is decreasing by around 300,000 ~700,000 per year), encouraging them to get wed with men at as much a young age as possible, and allocating more of the child benefits and maternity pay to these women who are in favour with his plans - all in order to cope with Japan's aging population we have been suffering for a litany of years.... Aside from that, perhaps I guess he's being way too reluctant to promote these plans positively since he's aware that many of us would be hard on Muslims after the terrorist attacks of that large scale, with the prepossession that they are all the terrorists who easily go nuts to do something repugnant to the others... just like in many of the other countries where people are always distant to them. At any rate, things aren't that simple and there's much more that we gotta brood over before finally deciding to do what is to be truly desired.

 

[killerjimbag]

Ah so turns out it has nothing to do with money at all!

Truly, I'm shocked.

Of course it has to do with money!
I know, throwing around billions when your economy is in the tank,unemployment is crap,homelessness is at it highest ever is a great idea. I got a better idea,get Buffet,Gates and all the other billionaires to go buy an empty island and place them all there,hell the guy from Egypt said he would buy one from Greece. Simple don't you think!

 

[Carlos]

Of course it has to do with money!
I know, throwing around billions when your economy is in the tank,unemployment is crap,homelessness is at it highest ever is a great idea. I got a better idea,get Buffet,Gates and all the other billionaires to go buy an empty island and place them all there,hell the guy from Egypt said he would buy one from Greece. Simple don't you think!

The worth of the island will drop because of them, so it's not really a good investment.

 

[killerjimbag]

The worth of the island will drop because of them, so it's not really a good investment.

The worth of the island will drop?
Uhm if they build,buildings,infrastructure, sewage et al,it creates jobs,refugees work, get paid,the value will increase. 10 billion amongst billionaires, Canada throws in 2 billion, other countries contribute,its a win,win situation. I'm sure they would rather be there,than Edmonton in January!

 

[Barra333]

I'd make them sign a waiver, tax them at a higher rate.

Which would give them less money in hand after working, making it even harder to get themselves away from relying on handouts.
If you tax someone (who is already poor) $100 extra per week, then that is $100 less they have to save for a car (which could open up more job opportunities which public transit doesn't reach), or supporting their extended family rather than immediate family.
Remember, these refugees didn't want to leave home, and despite needing a hand when they settle wherever, they don't want to rely on it long term.

 

[CTznOfTime]

For those of you saying the borders must be closed to migrants, should i remind them that most of these terrorists (including the first female to blow herself up in France) are "insiders"...

I am not saying the borders should be left entirely open either...but it is not as black and white as you think.

We should interrogate and watch real close those who have travelled to Syria in the past 7 years....

The secret service should be more proactive now.

 

[Hun200kmh]

^^^^ This many times over.

There's a debate nowadays about dumping the Schengen agreement and going back to closed borders within the EU. It is funny because the major problems are related to EU CITIZENS that go to Syria and return from there.

But it's an upside down debate. If you want to take it seriously, it isn't France and Belgium that need to close their borders to avoid "certain individuals" to enter. Quite the opposite, if you agree with this stupid "let's close the internal borders" idea, than it should be because I want to control and register anyone coming from France, Belgium, the UK and Spain. These countries have serious problems within their own citizens and apparently are fertile ground to the breeding of radical muslims that blow up themselves to kill others.

I would avoid this kind of thinking. The problem isn't with internal borders and people from outside travelling freely after they enter. It's with people from within that go out and are able to return.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Absolutely right, you've completely forgotten to consider the state input from those people when they work, when they spend their money on taxable items and when they contribute to the community. For your extrapolation to work you have to presume that every single one of those people will sit there taking the money and doing nothing. That will be true of some as it's true of a section of any populace, of course. It will be far from true for the majority.

The employment rates among refugees is historically very low:

Although refugees still had the lowest employment (44%)[after 2 years], this group of immigrants had made the biggest gains in entering the labour market, given employment of 21% six months after arrival.

Any sector of the economy with a net employment rate of 21-44% is going to be a net drain on Canada. It's possible that the Syrian refugees may have a more marketable skillset, but then again it might be worse.

 

[mister dog]

I don't understand why people make such a big deal about 'closed' borders and custom controls like in the old days. Especially with the given situation we have at the moment.

It worked perfectly fine before Schengen, cue with your car at the booth, hand over your ID and you're on your way again. Like I said before; more of a minor inconvenience than an attack on our personal freedom.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I don't understand why people make such a big deal about 'closed' borders and custom controls like in the old days. Especially with the given situation we have at the moment.

It worked perfectly fine before Schengen, cue with your car at the booth, hand over your ID and you're on your way again. Like I said before; more of a minor inconvenience than an attack on our personal freedom.

How effective is it though? Passport control into/out of the UK is as tight as I've had in Europe, but that's easy because we are an island. Only once have I had to show a passport to cross a land border in Europe, and that was getting off a TGV from France to Switzerland, hell, during the immigrant crisis at Calais I got from the UK, through France, into Belgium, and back again only showing my Passport once. Sticking a booth on a main road doesn't secure a border, for it to be effective you need to police the entire length of your countries border. It's a bit like US gun laws, it only affects those trying to operate legally. It's not that I would mind the inconvenience, but I'd be sceptical that it would limit the movements of terrorists hell-bent on murdering innocent civilians.

 

[mister dog]

How effective is it though? Passport control into/out of the UK is as tight as I've had in Europe, but that's easy because we are an island. Only once have I had to show a passport to cross a land border in Europe, and that was getting off a TGV from France to Switzerland, hell, during the immigrant crisis at Calais I got from the UK, through France, into Belgium, and back again only showing my Passport once. Sticking a booth on a main road doesn't secure a border, for it to be effective you need to police the entire length of your countries border. It's a bit like US gun laws, it only affects those trying to operate legally. It's not that I would mind the inconvenience, but I'd be sceptical that it would limit the movements of terrorists hell-bent on murdering innocent civilians.

I know it's difficult to arrange, but it was done before up until the '90's so it can be replicated again if the EU wants too.
It narrows down the chance of unwanted individuals travelling freely around our countries, and will at least contain them a lot more. Also for weapons smuggling it would make things harder.

 

[FoRiZon]

The worth of the island will drop?
Uhm if they build,buildings,infrastructure, sewage et al,it creates jobs,refugees work, get paid,the value will increase. 10 billion amongst billionaires, Canada throws in 2 billion, other countries contribute,its a win,win situation. I'm sure they would rather be there,than Edmonton in January!

We are talking about the price of an island, though. And like many said, an used things always has lower price than a brand new.

Just my thought If you cared solely about money.

 

[killerjimbag]

We are talking about the price of an island, though. And like many said, an used things always has lower price than a brand new.

Just my thought If you cared solely about money.

Did you say a used island,wow.

 

[Sanji Himura]

The AP is reporting that Salah Abdeslam may have been a ninth attacker in the Paris attacks. Abdeslam is currently wanted by the French government for his involvement in the Paris attacks, may have been linked to the attacks directly by way of a ninth homicide vest that was found in the suburb of Montrouge, in southern Paris, by street cleaners combing the rubble. The vest in question was found largely intact, but without the detonator switch, which may indicate that Abdeslam was in the area, but did not go through with the attack.

Salah Abdeslam remains at large.

 

[CTznOfTime]

I don't understand why people make such a big deal about 'closed' borders and custom controls like in the old days. Especially with the given situation we have at the moment.

It worked perfectly fine before Schengen, cue with your car at the booth, hand over your ID and you're on your way again. Like I said before; more of a minor inconvenience than an attack on our personal freedom.

Border control is one thing.
Closing borders to migrants is another thing.

Lets not confuse them.

 

[Sanji Himura]

Hostage situation in Roubaix, France. Situation is fluid.

 

[TenEightyOne]

French police are dealing with an armed hostage - taking situation in Roubaix. I posted here as it's likely most related to this thread. Currently the overall details are sketchy.

 

[Johnnypenso]

https://www.rt.com/news/323337-france-hostage-wounds-roubaix/

A hostage situation has been reported in the northern French town of Roubaix near the Belgian border. Several people have sustained gunshot wounds, Reuters reported citing medical sources.
The area has been cordoned off by police, RTL reported, adding that gunfire can be heard.

La Voix du Nord newspaper says the hostage takers are armed with Kalashnikovs. Witnesses told the daily that the incident occurred at around 7:00pm local time at a service station.

 

[Sanji Himura]

French police are dealing with an armed hostage - taking situation in Roubaix. I posted here as it's likely most related to this thread. Currently the overall details are sketchy.

I would have provided more details, but I was looking for more information on the downed Russian pilot that was killed by "moderate" Syrian rebels, thus on mobile.

 

[Johnnypenso]

http://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog-november-24-2015/

Incident taking place in Roubaix, possible gunshot victims at scene; mayor’s office says it’s a robbery gone wrong

 

[Dennisch]

Apparently it's a banker and his family who are being held hostage. According to Reuters that is.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Apparently it's a banker and his family who are being held hostage. According to Reuters that is.

Not related then, apologies... am stuck riverside on the world's crappest mobile signal so news is sooooo slow

 

[Johnnypenso]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/24/world/paris-attacks/index.html

The ringleader behind the November 13 shootings and bombings in Paris was on the verge of launching an attack on a financial district in the city when he was killed in a raid north of the city last week, Paris prosecutor Francois Molins said Tuesday.

Abdelhamid Abaaoud and another man killed in the Saint-Denis raid were possibly planning a suicide attack against La Defense on November 18 or 19, Molins told reporters.The raid was carried out early on Wednesday, November 18.

Phone signals indicate that Abaaoud was in Paris' 10th, 11th and 12th districts on the night of the attacks, between 10:28 p.m. and 12:28 a.m., Molins said.

"This suggests that Abaaoud returned (to) the crime scenes after the attacks" on the restaurants and while authorities were "still intervening at the Bataclan" theater, Molins said.