Audi R8

[Tornado]

It has around 30 extra HP and much more consistent torque through the rev range.

I doubt that it has that much of a difference in the rev range considering both engines have essentially the same design. Even then 650 lbs is a lot to make up for. And 420 is not 30BHP more than 400.

As for the 911, porsche cant force VAG to make a crap car to not compete with it. Audi aimed for the 911, but again the cars are very different, and I dont think porsche have to worry, nothing does. At the end of the day with there now being a R8 alongside the 911 it means that it will take more sales away from the likes of BMW and mercedes and halo the rest of the audi range.

While I more or less agree with you (I never said they wouldn't be allowed to; just that they wouldn't be allowed to, say, build one that competed directly with the 911 Turbo like the original concept would have) that part in bold does not necessarily ring true. Remember the quattro Spyder? That was nearly given the greenlight for production before Piech killed it, and it is rumoured to have been because of it's position against the 911. Porsche essentially owns VAG, and Piech sits rather high up on the board of both companies; and owns significant amounts of both as a result.

 

[Poverty]

The R8 is rumoured to be putting out closer to 430hp than 420hp. We will soon find out when the first set of owners collect their vehicle.

 

[steven]

'bout the engine in the r8, there are supposed to be both v8's (rs4) and v10's (lambo, s6) spooned into it.

'bout the understeer, well that'll be the classic controversy between rwd and 4wd fanatics. 4wd understeers always (a bit) more than rwd cars.

'bout the 911, how different can a car setup be: (EDIT: MID-) engine 4wd car vs. engine in the back and rwd? it won't be an alternative to each other. that's what they probably figured over at vag when designing and marketing the car.

 

[exigeracer]

Dude... the R8's motor is in back. MR AWD.

 

[harrytuttle]

I think there's some misconceptions about how some people are feeling about the car. Most people here really like the car, but there are some who say it's "just not right".

Previously, I thought that Chrysler should have gone ahead with the ME412, but they didn't for various reasons. It was a spectacular car, looked very cool, and even looked very "Chrysler". I never understood why they didn't go forward with it until Audi released the R8. Spectacular car, but it makes me realize why some reviewer, in talking about the NSX, a few years go said "Great car...shame about the badge." I mean, really: in 1990, who would buy a supercar from Honda, retailer of economy cars the world over?

 

[usedHONDA]

looks like audi got a hit

 

[YSSMAN]

Previously, I thought that Chrysler should have gone ahead with the ME412, but they didn't for various reasons. It was a spectacular car, looked very cool, and even looked very "Chrysler". I never understood why they didn't go forward with it until Audi released the R8.

Even as an American car guy, atleast to me it was plainly obvious that Chrysler wasn't going to build the ME Four-Twelve after seeing it in person. The car was far too extravagant and generally speaking, fit nowhere in the Chrysler lineup. Given that even it would top the big-brother SLR, Mercedes-Benz wasn't about to let that happen.

...Along came a Spider, and the FIREPOWER (thats how they spell it) showed up. While the FIREPOWER was indeed just as "outrageous" as the ME Four-Twelve, it was more realistically-grounded within the company using existing parts from existing vehicles pushing forward design without requiring a complete design of an entirely new product. Using the Viper chassis, the 300C SRT-8's 6.1L V8, and the Tremec T-56 made it a feaseable model for production. Although rumors point to yes, Chrysler has been mute about it. They are probably more concerned with their sales issues right now that putting out a low-production model that may actually sell...

Spectacular car, but it makes me realize why some reviewer, in talking about the NSX, a few years go said "Great car...shame about the badge." I mean, really: in 1990, who would buy a supercar from Honda, retailer of economy cars the world over?

Good point, and I think the R8 will do much of the same thing. Audi has completely re-invented itself in the past 20 years, and certainly the R8 is at the pinnacle of those advancements. Audi, IMO, still has a long-way to go to be considered one of those "Halo" brands like it's German competition, but the R8 should bring them one step closer to that again. If we see the specs, and the car proves itself against the 911, I think we could have the German NSX to drool after quite soon...

 

[Poverty]

Only in america audi isnt considered to be on par with BMW and mercedes. In europe its no longer that way, apart from the opionions of a couple dillisional Bmw M3 enthusiasts.

Audi of america is absolutely incompetent, everywhere around the globe audi sales are increasing dramatically all the time whilst in america thats not quiet the case. Audi of america need to fix up, and get some good marketing out there. If I was audi boss I would have sacked them all by now and hired a completely new team. Plus its not like theres a shortage of marketing whizz kids in america, its the marketing capital of the world!

 

[Metar]

Audi, while not exactly Mercedes in terms of being "The dream car" for kids, has established pretty good here in Israel.

Audi buyers (here) are the solid guys. They've got plenty of money, and they're gonna spend it on a fine car. Safe, AWD, Sporty, Powerfull, Luxurious.
A3 is the choice for those who need a Golf, but want a rich-guy's Golf.
A4 is for those who want to be above those in their Toyotas and Subarus. A Sedan with style and power.
A6 is for the even richer, who don't want the Stigma's associated to Mercedes and BMW.
A8 is for those who don't care.

Volkswagen (the brand itself) is very highly regarded, but Audis are more like "Volkswagen Plus". The R8, while it probably won't be sold here, will boost that image. Perhaps even to levels above BMW, seeing that BMW is not considered very sporty here.

 

[YSSMAN]

^ I think I'm in agreement on the "Volkwagen Plus" attitude there. Maybe it is because of the way Volkswagen has positioned some of their models, I dunno, but Audi doesn't seem to be that legendary brand in which their cars are at the top of the heap... When argueably they are of course.

I think part of the problem is that in America we are too focused on the driving expirience that comes from BMW, and the luxury that comes from Mercedes-Benz. Audi certainly strikes a balance between the two, but often gets left in the dust like Jaguar and Cadillac in most circumstances... Adding insult to injury, the Japanese Trio has done enough damage to Audi as well here in the US, hell, practically undercutting BMW and Mercedes-Benz at the same time.

What it comes down to is that Audi always seems to make its case here in the US as the "different" brand with AWD. They never seem to outright say that they are better than BMW or Mercedes-Benz for any particular reason, and often times, come-off like they are a step-behind in many circumstances.

As noted before, the R8 is the car that puts Audi ahead of BMW and Mercedes-Benz. Advanced design and technology makes it a wonder not only to look at, but presumably to drive, and it should have BMW and Mercedes-Benz a bit worried about how exactly they plan to compete. Sure, there is going to be the M6, but that isn't enough. With the SLR on its last leg, that isn't enough either.

...So now, its up to BMW and Mercedes-Benz to figure it out. The last time that happened (post-RS6), things became quite complicated...

 

[Metar]

Exactly - Audi is the middle-guy. Good driving-expirience, but not quite BMW-ish, and lots of luxury, but not yet Mercedes. Yet it is too expensive to compete against the Volkswagen brothers - it's always the Golf+, Jetta+, Passat+, [VW luxurycar]+. It's in the league of Mercedes and BMW, but it doesn't "specialize" in any of the two fields which the two rule. It's the choice of the smart - a fine enough balance between both, while escaping the problems that plague Mercedes/BMW owners*. And by building a Supercar (I think it qualifies as one), they might just open a field which BMW didn't touch, yet still not endangered by the SLR McLaren.

Also: I just noticed... There's one field where Audi trashed BMW and Mercedes. The BMW 1-series, and the Mercedes A-series were both much less successfull then the A2 or A3. Perhaps because Audi was still able, somehow, to make people accept a compact from them, more then Mercedes and BMW did.

* Mercedes and BMW are the most luxurious cars in Israel. The fact that the first Rolls Royce was sold this month, and that Bentley opened an agency, doesn't help - a guy with a BMW, even with an old 3-series from the '80s, is automatically stingmatized. While it's "the ultimate dream-car" for most kids here (automotive education A la TopGear doesn't exist here), and even though every taxi-driver who doesn't drive a Skoda has a Mercedes, they're still rated as a showoff. Audi doesn't have this stigma, it's more of a discreet car.

 

[niky]

Hmmm... does the Audi R8 put it ahead of the two, or maybe just both above and below?

Audi's A3 makes tons more sense than either the A-class/B-class or the BMW 1-series, simply because it's an actual compact car... not a pseudo-compact built around what should be a sports coupe (the BMW 1-series) nor a micro-car/mini-van disguised as a Merc (the A and B... oh, I know they're luxurious, but WTF, man...).

Audi has no hang-ups about the non-exclusivity of transverse FWD, and the recent popularity of AWD means it's easy for them to offer both really cheap FWD headliners and some pretty good AWD cars on the same platform... while BMW and Merc are stuck with sort of expensive RWD headliners and even more expensive AWD options on higher trim models... but note, on BMW and Merc, AWD is a "safety" option, while on Audi, AWD is good enough for their top-of-the-line models.

Audi, in general, is still below Merc and BMW, but damn, their incessant ad campaigns, lobbying, and brainwashing of motorheads is starting to wear me down, too...

The R8 will probably help raise Audi's stock a bit, but I don't know whether it's a boost for the brand per se... neither the old BMW M1 nor the Mercedes SLR made people rush to the dealerships to buy up C-class and 3-series cars... Be honest, does anyone buy a Nissan Sentra just because the R390 exists?

BUT: the M3, M5, S4, S6, RS4 and RS6 do sell a lot of 3s, 5s, A4s and A6s... thanks to a more effective halo effect. Working man's cars that go hella fast? Yes, I want a car that looks just like it...

That's where the money's at. The (admittedly great) RS4 probably means more for Audi's volume sales now and in the immediate future than the R8 ever will.

Still cool that they're making it, though.

 

[YSSMAN]

Yeah, that R8 sounds great!

 

[harrytuttle]

Yeah, that R8 sounds great!

Three seriously nice cars, and the R8 was the best-sounding by far. I expected better audio from the CLK-DTM. Isn't that supposed to have the 6.3L V8? It sounds nicer on the E63.

Re: 997 GT2: It's so nice to see Walter Rorhl at work.

 

[GT Pro]

That R8 sounds amazing, all the more reason to get one.

 

[JohnBM01]

I want to keep avoiding thinking of the Le Mans-winning prototype when I think of this car. This thing is named after that almost unbreakable car. I strangely like it. I sort of think the vertically-elongated grill accents were pushed a bit too far in its design, but it remains a mostly clean design. This kind of reminds me of the classic Need for Speed days when you got to race cars very few people would actually afford and push to the limit. This is one of those type cars. This is a sort of late 1990s supercar styling exercise for me. And it's wonderful.

My approval for this car is 85% and climbing.

 

[Metar]

BUT: the M3, M5, S4, S6, RS4 and RS6 do sell a lot of 3s, 5s, A4s and A6s... thanks to a more effective halo effect. Working man's cars that go hella fast? Yes, I want a car that looks just like it...

That's where the money's at. The (admittedly great) RS4 probably means more for Audi's volume sales now and in the immediate future than the R8 ever will.

Which is why Subaru does so well, while Mitsubishi - by far the faster and more advanced car - struggles: Everyone's heard of the WRX/STi (Also called "Turbo GT" here), while only car-enthusiasts heard of the Evo range. But even if they were equal (after all, it's the enthusiast who buys those cars), the Subaru, by looking exactly like the regular, plain, cheap, 1.6l FWD model, manages to sell much more Impreza's to private clients. Thing is, because the Israeli car-market consists of 60% Leasing-cars, the newest Mitsubishi Lancers (that aren't even close to the Evo) are more successfull, because leasing-companys chose it.

Audi's, Mercedes' and BMW's "home-tuned" range (M3/5/6, RS4/6, AMGs) aren't even available here, so the only things influencing the sales is the "top image-car". (M3s are privately imported, though, and AMG just started selling). Mercedes did a splendid job lately, by importing a pair of SLRs, and driving in them around town, occasionally opening the butterfly-doors. BMW brought Rolls Royce (Spelling?) and some Ms along, too... And Audi continues to grow quicker than any of the two.

 

[harrytuttle]

Which is why Subaru does so well, while Mitsubishi - by far the faster and more advanced car - struggles: Everyone's heard of the WRX/STi (Also called "Turbo GT" here), while only car-enthusiasts heard of the Evo range.

I disagree. Before the WRX was released in the US, it had the same mystique as the Evo. The reason it succeeds is the other part of your statement:

But even if they were equal (after all, it's the enthusiast who buys those cars), the Subaru, by looking exactly like the regular, plain, cheap, 1.6l FWD model, manages to sell much more Impreza's to private clients.

All Subaru's also have all-wheel-drive, and all actually drive rather well. Stepping up to a car with more power is a natural progression. Over here, the "lower-spec" Evo's were the Mirage, a totally different car underneath (much like the current Lancer ES) and happened to be a totally uninspiring car. That, and the general perception of Mitsubishi is less than stellar.

 

[Metar]

I disagree. Before the WRX was released in the US, it had the same mystique as the Evo. The reason it succeeds is the other part of your statement:

In Israel, the Evo is pretty unknown - they're very rare. Since the Evo VI, all Evo's looked totally unlike the "regular", leasing-company Lancer. Upto the EvoVI, they basically looked like body-kitted Lancers...

All Subaru's also have all-wheel-drive, and all actually drive rather well. Stepping up to a car with more power is a natural progression. Over here, the "lower-spec" Evo's were the Mirage, a totally different car underneath (much like the current Lancer ES) and happened to be a totally uninspiring car. That, and the general perception of Mitsubishi is less than stellar.

I know that higher-range Subaru's have AWD - Legacy, Forester (Mom's boyfriend has a turbo), Outback, WRX/STi, etc. The most common, here, is the Impreza, which is pretty similar to the current Lancer - Cheap, Fwd, 1.6l engine standart - the leasing-cars so popular here.

 

[niky]

Despite the fact that, yes, even the 1.6 liter cars were AWD (0-60? Go take a pee... it'll take about that long... ), the fact remains that the WRX STi had a clear and obvious link to the regular Impreza, and to the entire Subaru family.

Mitsubishi actually had that link with previous Lancers, that's why the Lancer was popular in Asia last decade, but they've lost that link, and have been struggling to find a way to make the regular Lancer more relevant to the Evo (or is it the other way around) ever since.

Simply put, they should have put the 4G63 in more Lancers, put more input into chassis and suspension development into the Lancer from the Evo... and when the Evo went up-chassis to the Cedia platform? The Lancer should have followed.

I've never been inspired driving a regular FWD Lancer, and with succeeding editions, the link with the Evo became weaker and weaker, and the mystique it garnered from the Evo started wearing off...

Subaru is a brand built around one car, and it does it successfully. Mitsubishi is a brand that has a good record for building exciting cars, but they have no idea how to translate that into sales the way Honda or BMW does... they absolutely suck at using halo cars to sell their repmobiles.

 

[Poverty]

Audi's first supercar is a sell-out success, months before the first R8s are delivered to British customers. Firm orders have already been placed for all 400 of the first UK allocation, with 50 more customers in line behind them.

Great news for audi. The R8 is a sales success!

 

[niky]

Well, at the price and performance, it's expected, and they deserve success.

 

[Max_DC]

Today as I drove home from university a

Audi R8

passed me. I think it was the 420 PS version since I raced it and while it of course was faster, it wasn't that extreme. There almost wasn't any difference in 4th ( I could keep a distance of about 5-10 m from 140-170) a little more in 5th and a lot more in 6th gear. He didn't really smoke me though, since the traffic was too heavy. Full throttle from 4th to 6th at about 260 km/h ( 150 mph ) he was maybe 10-15 car lenghs away. Then we had to break very hard. Overall I raced with him 20 km on the Autobahn. Then the testdrivers left the Autobahn and smiled at me. They seemed to have enjoyed it aswell

I was able to take several pictures at first due to the heavy traffic

 

[YSSMAN]

Thats awesome! You never see too many cars like that (test cars that is) in this part of the state unless Car and Driver is doing a test out at Grattan.

...Great photo man, good story too. I can't wait 'till the R8 shows up around here, I know my Jetta doesn't stand a chance, but I'll do my best to keep-up and get a good look.

 

[niky]

Time for a bigger turbo for the Subie?

Awesome experience, man!

 

[Max_DC]

Time for a bigger turbo for the Subie?

Awesome experience, man!

oh well only if I should move to a place with lower gas prices

I'm already paying a fortune for gas every year, over 5k$, it is really borderline...

 

[niky]

OT: ouch, and I thought the $2000 per year I was paying was bad...

 

[YSSMAN]

GREATEST IDEA EVER!

Audi could offer a diesel version of its new R8 sports car in the future, according to Wolfgang Hatz, Audi's executive director of powertrain development. Hatz made the comments in the latest issue of Italy's Quattroruote magazine.

Hatz said Audi hopes to improve consumer perception of its diesels by further reducing noisiness of the engines. He said he also hopes Audi will offer a diesel engine in the R8 sports car. The obvious choice would be the V12 TDI motor first used in the R10 race car, and now available in the Audi Q7. The engine produces 500 horsepower and 738 pound-feet of torque.

...I'd buy one if they sold it here. That would be awesome!

 

[Max_DC]

Diesel in a real sports car is a no go ! At least for me... not for rational reasons, I just don't thinks it fits... so WORST IDEA EVER

 

[niky]

Hmmm... most luxury sports cars are already ungodly heavy, so... why not the diesel? Just take out heated/power seats and a sound system, plus maybe a hundred pounds of sound-deadening, and you've got a supercar that'll woofle along on cross-continent journeys (hell, why do they call some of these newfangled sportscars GTs when they drink gas like crazy and need to stop so often to juice up), kill other cars in traffic, idling away from the stoplight, and kick you in the ass with a mountain of torque when pushing it?

Modern diesels are a lot like "classic" gas engines... low redlines, gurgly sound, torquey delivery... heck, what's not to like? :grin:

I was giddy too, when I first read that report, was going to post it, but YSSMAN beat me to it. :grin: