Australian Leadership Challenge- Gillard vs. Rudd

[Conza]

In my opinion, Gillard needs to be run out of office. Seriously, she's run this greaty country into the ground.

Bring on Abbott, I say.

Look, I'm a Liberal supporter, and even I think that last comment is a bit daft man, no party could 'really' drive this country into the ground, that's the benefit of having a 90-95% free market economy, even with the carbon tax in full originally planned effect, I think we'd still be ok.

As it seems you're also a liberal supporter, rest assured, our vote is once again meaningless, anyone who voted for the independants will vote for the national party version in those seats, the liberal coalition will win by a 60%+ margin, and things will get back to normal - so there's nothing to worry about.

 

[ExigeEvan]

The funny thing is the public pretty much all want Kevin Rudd as the leader yet the parliment members (Caucus) voted for Julia 73 to 29. Basically we are stuck with a prime minister who has the least support from the public in history.

Next up, they should make it in law that, barring exceptional circumstances (aka, Harold Holt), the leader of the nation cannot be changed other than by an election. It is literally a joke that the leader of our nation can be rotated whenever the labor party wants whenever the don't like someone or they think they are going to lose the next election.

Which ignores the point you are voting for a political party, not a person, to rule your government.

Government policy should not, and does not, turn 180 degrees because the head of the ruling party changes. Sure, there may be minor changes, but they are minor. I'm not denying the leader of a party makes a difference, but it should not be a game changer to the governing party.

To dissolve a government because one person changes would be to make politics a matter of personal popularity surely!?

 

[Grayfox]

If they call an election I won't vote as I never do, I just get the ballot paper and write insulting messages to the counters.

We get no choice in voting unlike you Americans where you can choose to vote.

Australia voting options:

Option A: a fool
Option B: an idiot
Option C: a stupid person

So no matter who you vote for they will screw up this country in some way.

 

[Casio]

Which ignores the point you are voting for a political party, not a person, to rule your government.

Government policy should not, and does not, turn 180 degrees because the head of the ruling party changes. Sure, there may be minor changes, but they are minor. I'm not denying the leader of a party makes a difference, but it should not be a game changer to the governing party.

To dissolve a government because one person changes would be to make politics a matter of personal popularity surely!?

But the way politics is run in this country the populous really vote for Prime Minister. It's the Leader of the Party who is on every election advertising board, making the speechs, going out to towns, saying 'I' will do this, and 'He' won't do that. The Australian election campaign is run much like the US Primaries, at least in terms of putting a single face as the leader of a party.

The thing is if the PM keeps changing because opinion polls are saying that the people have lost confidence and no longer trust of the current head of Government, the people should get a say if the decision to change the head of government is undertaken. At the very least Party members should get a vote.

When you have almost one-third of the sitting Labor party MPs say that they cannot win an election under their own current leader, and then she maintains power, how can you maintain a stable Government like that?

If they call an election I won't vote as I never do, I just get the ballot paper and write insulting messages to the counters.

We get no choice in voting unlike you Americans where you can choose to vote.

Australia voting options:

Option A: a fool
Option B: an idiot
Option C: a stupid person

So no matter who you vote for they will screw up this country in some way.

While I know many people subscribe to this (I think about 13% at the last election submitted invalid votes), I do think it's an ignorant action. Many countries on Earth could only dream of being 'forced' into being able to elect a head of Government, and then a lot of people who do have that right, vote at the risk of being literally killed on the way to the polling booth. We should be grateful for what we have.

 

[Shaun]

While I know many people subscribe to this (I think about 13% at the last election submitted invalid votes), I do think it's an ignorant action. .

I agree with this but I'm of the opinion that voting shouldn't be compulsory. I don't think anything will change on that front soon though.
Let those of us that care about it decide on who governs us.
The egos of our politicians would take a battering when the votes were counted and sadly a large percentage of the population didn't bother to turn up. We couldn't allow that to happen could we.

Thing is though if an election was to be held this Saturday I would struggle to vote for either major party. I suppose I could vote the Australian Sex Party or the Australian Beer Party .
Surely if the Liberals were to produce a popular leader they would be a shoe in.

My two cents.

Cheers Shaun.

 

[Casio]

Thing is though if an election was to be held this Saturday I would struggle to vote for either major party. I suppose I could vote the Australian Sex Party or the Australian Beer Party

It's funny. I remember during the last election reading an article about the Australian Sex Party. Basically saying that they could be quite a legitimate party, and that some of their ideas actually resonate with a lot of Australians (Particularly the growing number of Libertarian Australians), if only they changed their name.

 

[Grayfox]

While I know many people subscribe to this (I think about 13% at the last election submitted invalid votes), I do think it's an ignorant action. Many countries on Earth could only dream of being 'forced' into being able to elect a head of Government, and then a lot of people who do have that right, vote at the risk of being literally killed on the way to the polling booth. We should be grateful for what we have.

I just told like it cause it is vote for this idiot or this other idiot.

I am wasting my time and money voting for some twit that doesn't care about the people that voted them in.

Yes VOTE 1 for idiot that wants to ruin the nation.

What has voting given us?

Internet filter that will come
Carbon tax
More TAX
WAR

 

[ExigeEvan]

Yes VOTE 1 for idiot that wants to ruin the nation.

What has voting given us?

Internet filter that will come
Carbon tax
More TAX
WAR

And the wonderful thing about compulsory voting? You know enough to know they are all crap. And that's huge. In the UK, and many countries without compulsory vote, people don't vote because "it's boring" or "it doesn't concern them". If we made them vote then perhaps they'd find out the policies of each party on one major issue. I don't care if it's health care or gay-rights, but they'd know something.

The fact is, in too many western democracies people just don't care or even know there's an election on. And it's sickening.

But the way politics is run in this country the populous really vote for Prime Minister. It's the Leader of the Party who is on every election advertising board, making the speechs, going out to towns, saying 'I' will do this, and 'He' won't do that. The Australian election campaign is run much like the US Primaries, at least in terms of putting a single face as the leader of a party.

The thing is if the PM keeps changing because opinion polls are saying that the people have lost confidence and no longer trust of the current head of Government, the people should get a say if the decision to change the head of government is undertaken. At the very least Party members should get a vote.

When you have almost one-third of the sitting Labor party MPs say that they cannot win an election under their own current leader, and then she maintains power, how can you maintain a stable Government like that?

I did notice this in the Australian papers while I was there in Sept/Oct, it was very rare to see mention of other members of government. Usually in the UK the chancellor, the deputy or the Minister for potatoes is getting stick because of a new policy. Only do particularly unpopular PMs (Like Gordon Brown) get torn into on a frequent basis on the front pages, they usually let other members of the party test the waters on new policy.

 

[Grayfox]

But the way politics is run in this country the populous really vote for Prime Minister. It's the Leader of the Party who is on every election advertising board.

That is also one thing I really hate.

They waste so much of the tax payers money.

If you want to be re-elected use your own money not the tax payers.

Taxes are for schools, hospitals, transport and other things that keep the county running not to say VOTE 1 for me.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Bring on Abbott, I say.

If that happens, I fully expect entire towns to declare themselves to be independent nations. Gillard and Rudd might have been hilariously incompetent (treat the leadership challenge like a giant episode of Monty Python's Flying Circuit and it's actually watchable), but they're both better than Tony Abbott. All Abbott will do is watch out for his own - which means tax cuts for the rich and tax hikes for the poor to make up the difference. The man has no policies beyond "whatever Labour isn't doing" and is more interested in being able to say he is Prime Minister than in actually being the Prime Minister. I mean, the man still believes that Australia is a secular nation.

 

[Casio]

Almost a year exactly, and it's back on, 4:30pm Melb/Syd time today. Another back room vote to decide the leader of the country.

What a joke.

 

[Liquid]

So...

What's the forecast this time? Hattrick for Gillard?

 

[Casio]

So...

What's the forecast this time? Hattrick for Gillard?

Probably closer than last time, but I think Labor loses either way.

Though it's not even confirmed yet that Rudd will even run I guess.

 

[Matthew77258]

Rudd will not run.
https://twitter.com/NewsTalk2UE/status/314608295782518784

 

[Mike Rotch]

Hilarious. This thread should have the word 'Leadership' in inverted commas in the title.

Christmas came early for Abbott.

 

[Spacegoat]

Hilarious. This thread should have the word 'Leadership' in inverted commas in the title.

Indeed.


Gillard retains leadership

Australian Prime Minister Julia Gillard retained leadership of the governing Labor party after predecessor Kevin Rudd declined to challenge her in a ballot today.
No rivals challenged either Gillard or deputy prime minister and Treasurer Wayne Swan for their roles, a Labor Party official told reporters in Canberra today.

 

[Liquid]

All talk and no walk?

Tsh, typical Labour. Different country, but same outcomes...

 

[Small_Fryz]

All the huff and no movement

Can I change country?

 

[Grayfox]

Who will elect Grayfox?

Things I will do,

Remove Carbon Tax,
Tax the richman
Improve funding to public schools by removing funding from private
Give out intensives when you buy energy efficient cars, build green homes.
Reduce all politicians pay grades to fund hospitals
Abolish speed cameras
Add safegaurds to prevent Internet Neutrality.
Get rid if life imprisonment and bring back executions to save tax payer money.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

Your policies are awful.

 

[Grayfox]

How?

Our Public hospitals are unfunded and lack beds.

Our Public schools get 1/3 of funds while private get 2/3(you pay to get into private).

Carbon tax just made things more expensive.

If you buy a economic car why shouldn't you given a incentive, many people here just buy V8s to drive to work where they do office work and get the kids and do shopping.
V8s are not needed for that.

No Internet Filters-Simple

Remove all Speed cameras cause they do not work and we all know it.

Why should my tax money go to pay to keep some criminal alive in jail for life?
Just execute him and use the money you save to improve health care.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

Tax the richman

Punish people who work hard to be successful by taxing them more? Great way to drive fast-growing businesses to other countries and kill your economy.

How?

Our Public hospitals are unfunded and lack beds.

Our Public schools get 1/3 of funds while private get 2/3(you pay to get into private).

Not too up on this, so i'll take your word for it.

Carbon tax just made things more expensive.

Agreed.

If you buy a economic car why shouldn't you given a intensive, many people here just buy V8s to drive to work where they do office work and get the kids and do shopping.
V8s are not needed for that.

What? Who are you to speak for others and tell them that they don't need a V8 Ute for driving around town? You wouldn't get my vote solely because you are punishing people for exercising freedom of choice.

No Internet Filters-Simple

Agreed, nice to see you'll allow people some freedom.

Remove all Speed cameras cause they do not work and we all know it.

Agreed.

Why should my tax money go to pay to keep some criminal alive in jail for life?
Just execute him and use the money you save to improve health care.

Executions are more expensive that you'd think and if the court makes a mistake you can't say "Oh sorry, we convicted the wrong person, here's some compensation" because they're dead. Don't say that mistakes won't happen, because they do and will.

But the most important part of that - executions and rough prisons don't work to reduce crime, they just reinforce the idea that society is the enemy. Educate and rehabilitate, not annihilate.

 

[Grayfox]

What? Who are you to speak for others and tell them that they don't need a V8 Ute for driving around town? You wouldn't get my vote solely because you are punishing people for exercising freedom of choice.

Hence the word "Incentive" get a tax cut cause you drive an economic car or reduced road tax.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

Hence the word "Incentive" get a tax cut cause you drive an economic car or reduced road tax.

That's still unfair, but whatever.

 

[Grayfox]

Not really.

The Government use to handout incentives if you installed solar panels.
Why not do the same for economic vehicles.

If you want to get a V8 just to drive to your office job and do shopping that is your choice and you can still do it.

 

[Casio]

Why should my tax money go to pay to keep some criminal alive in jail for life?

Why should my tax money be used on public schooling I don't use?

 

[Grayfox]

Why should my tax money be used on public schooling I don't use?

Your kids use it, you used it.

 

[Casio]

Your kids use it, you used it.

You realise that not everyone sends their kids to Public Schools. In particular (but not exclusively) the high income earners who pay the most tax.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

If you want to get a V8 just to drive to your office job and do shopping that is your choice and you can still do it.

But you're giving preferential treatment to others. A much better way to sell green technologies is, oh, I don't know... letting people buy them when they are the better alternative!?

When electric cars are better developed and there is better infrastructure to support them, they will sell.

When solar panels are cheaper and more efficient (easier to pay off and provide cheaper power than the grid offers), they will sell.

 

[Grayfox]

Diesel cars can get 3.9L/100km with less than 100g of CO2 per KM.

That is pretty good, not just talking about electric cars.