Best money making in Patch 1.08

[MadJackMcMad]

People in this thread are a lot more upset about people running scripts than Sony is.


There's not a single person here that believes this. It's the same sort of mentality that's prevalent in most live games or games where time "played"=progression. A person who feels everyone should be on even footing. "I'm not able to sign on during the day cause I'm at work, it's unfair that others can."

Trust me, there's no denial here. Then again I'm not the one writing novels about a subject that I definitely "don't care" about.

People pointing out things that should be fairly obvious to anyone with objectivity - namely that actions can have consequences - does not automatically amount to 'people upset about others running scripts'. You are free to believe what you want, of course, just as someone is free to believe that they can stop their fall if they hop off the roof. It doesn't make them right though.

I said I do not care how people play, and I don't. What people have in game, and how they obtain it, makes no difference to me whatsoever. However, I do find it highly amusing to find script users trying to laugh off logical observations because the reality is they could yet face punishment for their choices.

It's all very much: 'I reject your reality and substitute my own'. Feel free to do so. Sony may not punish script users (as I've already acknowledged), but to pretend they lack the capacity to do so is at best foolhardy, and at worst downright ignorant.

 

[Grimm6Jack]

Sony banning people for using scripts, is not only possible, but should be done. Scripts are not a way to play the game.

But what Sony is going to have difficulties (pretty much impossibility, at least for now) is detecting who is using scripts. Not only do they have to manually see each player, but the script itself is not 100% timing related. It varies, and each time there's a restart, it takes different times doing it, and it does so in a way that it would be possible for a human to do it. Anti-Cheats won't cut it here, and in fact, the scripts have been around since 1.08 arrived and no one has been banned and some players have been doing the script 24/7 since then.

I have never used scripts in games in all of my life. But the state at how the game is, where I finished all the things in the game in less than 20 hours (where in previous GTs I would take over 100 easily) and even with grinding the same race for another 10 hours I still don't have credits to buy my favourite cars?
I've done the calculations. Normal gameplay on this game would require you to play for thousands of hours to get the cars in this game.

Yeah, I really cannot judge any people doing them. Not to mention that it doesn't affect the other players, it's not like you are cheating against them like for example in CS:GO with the use of wall hacks or aimbots. So...

 

[MadJackMcMad]

Sony can very easily detect those that are abusing scripts. Detecting everyone that uses/has used them though would be much harder, of course (if not impossible). Which is why I said earlier that I can only see them punishing those who have used them excessively (i.e. running 24/7), as there will be no doubt in those cases.

 

[MrMattAdz]

lmao how are people still trying to make this complicated?

Is it possible for Sony to detect the use of a bot script? Difficult but yes.

Is running a script against the terms of service? Yes.

What can happen if you break terms of service? Your PSN account can be locked, your Playstation console can be locked.

It is literally that simple.

Are you going to be locked out? Tiny chance that you would actually be caught, but if you were caught doing this in any other live service game you would be locked out.

 

[rex1825]

Sony banning people for using scripts, is not only possible, but should be done. Scripts are not a way to play the game.

But what Sony is going to have difficulties (pretty much impossibility, at least for now) is detecting who is using scripts. Not only do they have to manually see each player, but the script itself is not 100% timing related. It varies, and each time there's a restart, it takes different times doing it, and it does so in a way that it would be possible for a human to do it. Anti-Cheats won't cut it here, and in fact, the scripts have been around since 1.08 arrived and no one has been banned and some players have been doing the script 24/7 since then.

I have never used scripts in games in all of my life. But the state at how the game is, where I finished all the things in the game in less than 20 hours (where in previous GTs I would take over 100 easily) and even with grinding the same race for another 10 hours I still don't have credits to buy my favourite cars?
I've done the calculations. Normal gameplay on this game would require you to play for thousands of hours to get the cars in this game.

Yeah, I really cannot judge any people doing them. Not to mention that it doesn't affect the other players, it's not like you are cheating against them like for example in CS:GO with the use of wall hacks or aimbots. So...

First you say Sony should ban people, then you have nothing against people using it... a bit confused...

Up until PD solves problem of earning cache in game, I will use BMB afk method, and there is nothing in EULA that prevents me using it, neither in GT7 nor in PS Remote Play... If you don't want to use it, it's your call...

Sony didn't ban anyone for using N24 pitstop glitch in GTS, didn't ban anyone in GT6 for using VGT exploit, not sure why would they do it now, since one that is using script is basically locking his/her console for playing only one game, and also additionally PC...

@MrMattAdz please pin point me exact where it states it is against EULA?

 

[lisanorm]

In the end it's just a BOB, who ****ing cares

 

[tehPete]

Is running a script against the terms of service? Yes.

Lots of people keep saying this, but it's false - there's actually nothing in PSN's ToS that stops you from running scripts like people are with GT7, or states that you will be banned for doing so.

 

[rex1825]

Lots of people keep saying this, but it's false - there's actually nothing in PSN's ToS that stops you from running scripts like people are with GT7, or states that you will be banned for doing so.

...this however can change, I have a feeling ToS changes are incoming since Sony acquired some of the studios that have long time experience with live service games (and with that handling scripts/bots). But when this happens, any changes to ToS/EULA for a software/hardware that was acquired under those ToS/EULA, can be refunded, since this is right of user. One agrees to ToS/EULA, and if for some reason those change, one can ask for refund... And honestly, as it is now, not sure Sony/PD will go deeper with this, it is already hard on them for things that happen, and I am sure they wanna this 25th anny game to be the best.

 

[rex1825]

...now if you excuse me, I have some grinding to do

 

[MadJackMcMad]

Lots of people keep saying this, but it's false - there's actually nothing in PSN's ToS that stops you from running scripts like people are with GT7, or states that you will be banned for doing so.

Lots of people keep claiming this, but it is simply untrue. Sony's ToS are rather vague and imprecise, but there is enough within them to empower Sony to ban those running scripts (on multiple grounds, though some more tenuous than others). The issue isn't whether they can ban script users, it's whether they have the will to do so.

 

[MrNukki]

I don't know if I'm legally blind or whatever, but where is this Pan American Blue Moon Bay race? I can't find it.

 

[tehPete]

Lots of people keep claiming this, but it is simply untrue. Sony's ToS are rather vague and imprecise, but there is enough within them to empower Sony to ban those running scripts (on multiple grounds, though some more tenuous than others). The issue isn't whether they can ban script users, it's whether they have the will to do so.

Again with the falsehoods and fearmongering. Here's the UK PSN ToS:

PSN Terms of Service

Everything you need to know to use PlayStation Network, including safe online conduct, PlayStation Store terms and our commitment to you.

www.playstation.com

Section 13 - Code of Conduct - This section makes one reference to anything like scripting, and it is:

• Do not use any bugs, glitches, vulnerabilities or unintentional mechanics in Products or the PSN to get an advantage.

Please note the end of that sentence - '..to get an advantage'. That's very precise, and it means that unless they want to suggest that simply playing the game a lot (which is all the script is doing) gives someone an unfair advantage over another player, they can't do anything about people using scripts. If they do, they'll have to go after the dedicated hardcore crowd who have already spent tens - if not a hundred+ hours - grinding as well.

 

[MadJackMcMad]

I don't know if I'm legally blind or whatever, but where is this Pan American Blue Moon Bay race? I can't find it.

It's the first race in the Pan Am Championship. This is the race people grind for an easy 52k cr (with clean race bonus). Just exit the championship at the start of the next race and re-enter.

 

[ballyn]

I don't know if I'm legally blind or whatever, but where is this Pan American Blue Moon Bay race? I can't find it.

Go to World Circuits, bottom of the screen, there are Champion ships, move along to the right about 5 or 6 places.

 

[MrNukki]

It's the first race in the Pan Am Championship. This is the race people grind for an easy 52k cr (with clean race bonus). Just exit the championship at the start of the next race and re-enter.

Go to World Circuits, bottom of the screen, there are Champion ships, move along to the right about 5 or 6 places.

Thanks a lot, didn't know it was a championship

 

[MadJackMcMad]

Again with the falsehoods and fearmongering. Here's the UK PSN ToS:

PSN Terms of Service

Everything you need to know to use PlayStation Network, including safe online conduct, PlayStation Store terms and our commitment to you.

www.playstation.com

Section 13 - Code of Conduct - This section makes one reference to anything like scripting, and it is:

• Do not use any bugs, glitches, vulnerabilities or unintentional mechanics in Products or the PSN to get an advantage.

Please note the end of that sentence - '..to get an advantage'. That's very precise, and it means that unless they want to suggest that simply playing the game a lot (which is all the script is doing) gives someone an unfair advantage over another player, they can't do anything about people using scripts. If they do, they'll have to go after the dedicated hardcore crowd who have already spent tens - if not a hundred+ hours - grinding as well.

Please don't misrepresent efforts to educate as fearmongering. Also watch this video to get a better understanding of how Sony are perfectly capable (though hindered somewhat by the imprecision of their ToS) of banning script users (as unlikely as that may actually prove to be):

 

[lisanorm]

You all do realize this is not a short cut,you still have to have **** going for hours it's just bob doing it for you, so yeah if not ten or hundreds of hours grinding,but with bob. How many on here are doing this(secretly) but then jumping on here and making them selves look good by going against it. This exploit is not harming anyone,it takes time,now if they were getting **** instantly then thats a different story. Really who gives a F

 

[ballyn]

Running scripts is cheating, ban anyone who cheats, protect the integrity of our single player game, where cheating affects no one! The hard work of those who do not use scripts must be protected and their sense of superiority vindicated and protected at all costs! /s

2 million credits in Ireland/EU is 19.99, minimum wage is 10.50 an hour.

Whether you run a script or pay someone else to play for you. The best way to earn credits per hour is to not play the game yourself.

 

[Delta795]

I don't know if I'm legally blind or whatever, but where is this Pan American Blue Moon Bay race? I can't find it.

Pam American Championship, it's the 1st race.
If you use Tomahawk S (Roadcar) it's about 3:19 per race & gives out 52k with clean race bonus

Do the race, get ur $$, continue to Race#2 then quit. Rinse & repear

 

[jrbabbitt]

Script babies, meh....

 

[Delta795]

Lots of people keep claiming this, but it is simply untrue. Sony's ToS are rather vague and imprecise, but there is enough within them to empower Sony to ban those running scripts (on multiple grounds, though some more tenuous than others). The issue isn't whether they can ban script users, it's whether they have the will to do so.

Sony has banned folks on other games for using programmed exploits. DCUO specifically when it was SOE dis this numerous times to people using pre-scripted attacks.

For those that don't think they can't tell what is happening, your kidding yourself.

They can tell - & they have banned folks en masse before.

 

[ballyn]

Sony has banned folks on other games for using programmed exploits. DCUO specifically when it was SOE dis this numerous times to people using pre-scripted attacks.

For those that don't think they can't tell what is happening, your kidding yourself.

They can tell - & they have banned folks en masse before.

Cheating in multiplayer and cheating in single player are vastly different though. Add to that the fact that, a monkey could be trained to drive around an oval track, no one has ever mentioned being banned for rubber banding in a GT game, and the fact that telling the difference between all three concepts would likely be a waste of resources. I don't see them taking action on this issue.

The reverse pit lane entry glitch in GT Sport was a far more egregious means of earning credits as it was an actual exploit and while it was patched out, no one was banned for it.

 

[Famine]

Again with the falsehoods and fearmongering. Here's the UK PSN ToS:

Section 13 - Code of Conduct - This section makes one reference to anything like scripting, and it is:

• Do not use any bugs, glitches, vulnerabilities or unintentional mechanics in Products or the PSN to get an advantage.

Please note the end of that sentence - '..to get an advantage'. That's very precise, and it means that unless they want to suggest that simply playing the game a lot (which is all the script is doing) gives someone an unfair advantage over another player, they can't do anything about people using scripts. If they do, they'll have to go after the dedicated hardcore crowd who have already spent tens - if not a hundred+ hours - grinding as well.

Now do Section 27.

 

[MrNukki]

Pam American Championship, it's the 1st race.
If you use Tomahawk S (Roadcar) it's about 3:19 per race & gives out 52k with clean race bonus

Do the race, get ur $$, continue to Race#2 then quit. Rinse & repear

Thanks, but you can't use race cars? Only road cars?

 

[ballyn]

Now do Section 27.

Section 27 only pertains to protection of IP rights, I didn't pay enough attention during my semester op IP Law to even form a layman's opinion but I'm sure in the entire section the only relevant part is;

27.6.3. use any unauthorised hardware or software.

Several of my former class mates would have a field day in arbitration pointing out that using a script to automate gameplay does not infringe on anyones IP rights. Unlike say, allowing a person in another time zone to use your account through remote play to access a game or title or other protected IP in exchange for compensation.

 

[MrMattAdz]

First you say Sony should ban people, then you have nothing against people using it... a bit confused...

Up until PD solves problem of earning cache in game, I will use BMB afk method, and there is nothing in EULA that prevents me using it, neither in GT7 nor in PS Remote Play... If you don't want to use it, it's your call...

Sony didn't ban anyone for using N24 pitstop glitch in GTS, didn't ban anyone in GT6 for using VGT exploit, not sure why would they do it now, since one that is using script is basically locking his/her console for playing only one game, and also additionally PC...

@MrMattAdz please pin point me exact where it states it is against EULA?

Yes bro no problemo, I'll search on your behalf because apparently you're confident enough that it's not bannable but also too lazy to actually verify that yourself. BIG shoutout to @tehPete and my man @ballyn who did actually try to look through the terms but ultimately failed to find what had already been pointed out earlier in this thread.

Honestly the thought process is so simple-minded it's beyond funny. "Errr well I robbed a store one time and didn't get arrested, explain that Einstein". Not only that but you are using examples from games that were not designed as 'live service'.

The rules have changed, nobody used to care if you found an exploit that made loads of money, now they do. Why do you think no one ever puts cheat-codes into their games anymore? Why do you think that the economy of this game has been designed to make purchasing 'end-game' vehicles extremely slow to purchase without using MTXs? Stop thinking about Gran Turismo in the context of old games where you could 'cheat' to your hearts content, and start thinking about it in the context of GTAOnline, Destiny, Warzone, Fortnite etc.

Someone has literally already linked to a video where a professional lawyer outlines every single relevant sentance in the various terms and agreements. But sure, for the lazy and the willfully ignorant, here it is in plain writing so you can all finally stop bleating on about how you're "pretty sure it isn't against the rules, because, well just trust me bro".

Taken from here: https://www.playstation.com/en-us/legal/psn-terms-of-service/

5.10. Do not cheat, or use any bugs, glitches, vulnerabilities or unintentional mechanics in Content or the PSN to get an advantage or to gain unauthorized access to Content.

5.12. Do not use, make, or distribute unauthorized software or hardware, including non-licensed peripherals and cheat code software or devices that circumvent any security features or limitations included on any software or devices or take or use any data from PSN to design, develop or update unauthorized software or hardware.

Taken from here: https://doc.dl.playstation.net/doc/pc-app-eula/pc_app_eula_en.html

Restrictions: (iv) use any unauthorized, illegal, counterfeit or modified hardware or software with the APPLICATION SOFTWARE;

Credit to:

 

[SnuggleMaster]

Script babies, meh....

Cheaters will always have an excuse. I'm 48 years old and have never used automated software or duped coins aimbotted etc etc.

My experience is anybody willing to grease the wheels for themselves will always go to the next step. And they will make up a justification in their own mind.

At least in this game I don't have to worry about hacked cars in sport mode.

 

[tehPete]

Now do Section 27.

I'll say it again; unless playing the game a lot constitutes gaining an advantage over others, there's nothing they can do - not even under section 27, which is referring to the use of the console hardware itself, the PSN, and the IP in question.

27.3.2 is as close as they get to anything like being able to restrict people running scripts on their PC to play a game through a remote play client provided by the console manufacturer, and even then it's completely unenforcable from a legal perspective because laws aren't written to allow, they're written to prohibit - they're reactive, not proactive. It simply doesn't hold water and would be laughed out of any court.

If you were using the Playstation itself to run the script, then Sony would be able to do something; likewise if people were modifying the Remote Play client. Neither of those things is happening. Absolutely no Sony product, software or IP has been hacked or modified, nor needs to be for the script to work and the script is run on a non-Sony machine. No Sony IP is infringed or effected in any way.

There is literally nothing they can do as it stands. They would have to implement some major changes to the ToS for either PSN or the game itself in order to block script use as it applies here, and that would open them up to a significant number of refund claims at the very least.

 

[MrMattAdz]

I'll say it again; unless playing the game a lot constitutes gaining an advantage over others, there's nothing they can do - not even under section 27, which is referring to the use of the console hardware itself, the PSN, and the IP in question.

27.3.2 is as close as they get to anything like being able to restrict people running scripts on their PC to play a game through a remote play client provided by the console manufacturer, and even then it's completely unenforcable from a legal perspective because laws aren't written to allow, they're written to prohibit - they're reactive, not proactive. It simply doesn't hold water and would be laughed out of any court.

If you were using the Playstation itself to run the script, then Sony would be able to do something; likewise if people were modifying the Remote Play client. Neither of those things is happening. Absolutely no Sony product, software or IP has been hacked or modified, nor needs to be for the script to work and the script is run on a non-Sony machine. No Sony IP is infringed or effected in any way.

There is literally nothing they can do as it stands. They would have to implement some major changes to the ToS for either PSN or the game itself in order to block script use as it applies here, and that would open them up to a significant number of refund claims at the very least.

Pardon me while I scream internally.

Please stop if you do not understand. And I'm sorry but it is painfully clear that you do not understand, I wouldn't be surprised if your next post said that red is green.

There can only be one interpretation in court of this message: 27.6.3. use any unauthorised hardware or software. A script is unauthorised software. You are using it to control GT7 via remoteplay while using your PSN account. What more is there is to say?

And I promise you that Sony does not need to take you to court to block any access to your PSN account or console. Rather, it is YOU who needs to take them to court after the fact to prove that you did not break any of the agreed terms of service. Good luck!

 

[Famine]

Section 27 only pertains to protection of IP rights, I didn't pay enough attention during my semester op IP Law to even form a layman's opinion but I'm sure in the entire section the only relevant part is;

27.6.3. use any unauthorised hardware or software.

Several of my former class mates would have a field day in arbitration pointing out that using a script to automate gameplay does not infringe on anyones IP rights. Unlike say, allowing a person in another time zone to use your account through remote play to access a game or title or other protected IP in exchange for compensation.

Section 27 as a whole deals with "ownership and use of IP rights". That's not the only relevant part; it's a sub-section of 27.6. The full text is:

27.6. Do not do any of the following in connection with Authorised Systems, PSN or Products:

• 27.6.1. emulate them;
• 27.6.2. disrupt their operation;
• 27.6.3. use any unauthorised hardware or software;

An "Authorised System" is earlier defined as any PlayStation console of any era, and "Products" as "all the digital content and digital services available via PSN. Products may be free or paid-for. Products include games, music, movies, subscriptions, PSN Wallet top up service and funds, virtual communities (where you can interact with other players) and more."

Absolutely no Sony product, software or IP has been hacked or modified, nor needs to be for the script to work and the script is run on a non-Sony machine. No Sony IP is infringed or effected in any way.

As per the above, using a script (software) to run an automated money-making function on a PS4/5 would seem to fall entirely under for "Do not [use any unauthorised hardware or software] in connection with [PlayStation console], PSN or [games, music, movies, etc.]" (and it does say "in connection with", so no Sony product - console or game - needs to be modified to fall under this), as something you're not entitled to do.


I have approached a consumer rights lawyer with regards to everything brought up recently - from mis-selling (inappropriate Store descriptions) to refunds and this particular issue - and we'll see what the response is.

However, whether you or I, or the consumer rights lawyer, agree or disagree, it's considerably downstream of the process. Sony can unilaterally terminate your service for pretty much any reason it sees fit, and any dispute you have with its reasoning - and lawyers - come afterwards.