Best money making in Patch 1.08

[tehPete]

5.10. Do not cheat, or use any bugs, glitches, vulnerabilities or unintentional mechanics in Content or the PSN to get an advantage or to gain unauthorized access to Content.

5.12. Do not use, make, or distribute unauthorized software or hardware, including non-licensed peripherals and cheat code software or devices that circumvent any security features or limitations included on any software or devices or take or use any data from PSN to design, develop or update unauthorized software or hardware.

Neither of these things applies in this case.

Pardon me while I scream internally.

Please stop if you do not understand. And I'm sorry but it is painfully clear that you do not understand, I wouldn't be surprised if your next post said that red is green.

There can only be one interpretation in court of this message: 27.6.3. use any unauthorised hardware or software. A script is unauthorised software. You are using it to control GT7 via remoteplay while using your PSN account. What more is there is to say?

And I promise you that Sony does not need to take you to court to block any access to your PSN account or console. Rather, it is YOU who needs to take them to court after the fact to prove that you did not break any of the agreed terms of service. Good luck!

Shifting the goalposts, again you're not running any unauthorised hardware or software. The Playstation is not being hacked, neither is the remote play client. Nothing Sony owns or has produced is being changed in order for the script to work, and the scripts themselves are not illegal nor require the authorisation of Sony, because they're not running on Sony hardware or changing Sony software in any way whatsoever. This section is referring to the use of hacked consoles.

Remember when GT5 came out, and someone made that app to let people farm BSpec races through the web API Sony provided? That was significantly closer to breaking the ToS than the current script setup is, and nothing happened then either.

Section 27 as a whole deals with "ownership and use of IP rights". That's not the only relevant part; it's a sub-section of 27.6. The full text is:

27.6. Do not do any of the following in connection with Authorised Systems, PSN or Products:

• 27.6.1. emulate them;
• 27.6.2. disrupt their operation;
• 27.6.3. use any unauthorised hardware or software;

An "Authorised System" is earlier defined as any PlayStation console of any era, and "Products" as "all the digital content and digital services available via PSN. Products may be free or paid-for. Products include games, music, movies, subscriptions, PSN Wallet top up service and funds, virtual communities (where you can interact with other players) and more."

As per the above, using a script (software) to run an automated money-making function on a PS4/5 would seem to fall entirely under for "Do not [use any unauthorised hardware or software] in connection with [PlayStation console], PSN or [games, music, movies, etc.]" (and it does say "in connection with", so no Sony product - console or game - needs to be modified to fall under this), as something you're not entitled to do.


I have approached a consumer rights lawyer with regards to everything brought up recently - from mis-selling (inappropriate Store descriptions) to refunds and this particular issue - and we'll see what the response is.

However, whether you or I, or the consumer rights lawyer, agree or disagree, it's considerably downstream of the process. Sony can unilaterally terminate your service for pretty much any reason it sees fit, and any dispute you have with its reasoning - and lawyers - come afterwards.

As in my other post, 27.6 and its subparts refer to the use of modified software or firmware on Sony hardware, or the use of modified Sony software elsewhere. The script isn't being run on Sony hardware, and doesn't require modifications to the Remote Play client.

Yes, Sony can legally do what they want and don't have to provide a reason, but that's like the whole Queen Elizabeth situation - she's the most powerful monarch on the planet, but if she ever used those powers it'd be her last act as Queen.

 

[Famine]

As in my other post, 27.6 and its subparts refer to the use of modified software or firmware on Sony hardware, or the use of modified Sony software elsewhere. The script isn't being run on Sony hardware, and doesn't require modifications to the Remote Play client.

And as I said, it's not limited it to being "on" Sony hardware or "modified Sony software". It says "in connection with" [consoles], PSN and [Products]. Yes, it's a hugely nebulous term, but that's rather the point.


For reference, I entirely agree that Sony is unlikely to take action - it didn't with the 'Ring pit glitch in GT Sport and that affected the multiplayer by virtue of multiplayer being the only thing Sport really offered at the time, giving cheats access to far more vehicles - but I don't agree that it's something not consistent with the TOS.

 

[tehPete]

And as I said, it's not limited it to being "on" Sony hardware or "modified Sony software". It says "in connection with" [consoles], PSN and [Products]. Yes, it's a hugely nebulous term, but that's rather the point.


For reference, I entirely agree that Sony is unlikely to take action - it didn't with the 'Ring pit glitch in GT Sport and that affected the multiplayer by virtue of multiplayer being the only thing Sport really offered at the time, giving cheats access to far more vehicles - but I don't agree that it's something not consistent with the TOS.

I'm interested to hear what the lawyer you've contacted says on this. I suspect they won't be 100% certain because half of the law sadly comes down to how well you argue in court, but in this case I think it'd be down to Sony or PD having to prove that the script gives its users an unfair advantage - which would be impossible as it's literally just playing the game as-is. it doesn't even abuse an in-game glitch.

I look forward to reading that update.

 

[MrMattAdz]

Neither of these things applies in this case.

Shifting the goalposts, again you're not running any unauthorised hardware or software. The Playstation is not being hacked, neither is the remote play client. Nothing Sony owns or has produced is being changed in order for the script to work, and the scripts themselves are not illegal nor require the authorisation of Sony, because they're not running on Sony hardware or changing Sony software in any way whatsoever. This section is referring to the use of hacked consoles.

Remember when GT5 came out, and someone made that app to let people farm BSpec races through the web API Sony provided? That was significantly closer to breaking the ToS than the current script setup is, and nothing happened then either.


As in my other post, 27.6 and its subparts refer to the use of modified software or firmware on Sony hardware, or the use of modified Sony software elsewhere. The script isn't being run on Sony hardware, and doesn't require modifications to the Remote Play client.

Yes, Sony can legally do what they want and don't have to provide a reason, but that's like the whole Queen Elizabeth situation - she's the most powerful monarch on the planet, but if she ever used those powers it'd be her last act as Queen.

BRO HOW?? This will probably have to be my final response because at this point it doesn't really make a difference if you are trolling intentionally or not. You're just flat out ignoring anything that threatens your point of view.

Please understand this because I think this is probably the biggest blocking point for you here; Scripts fall within the classification of software. You are literally doing this "27.6.3. use any unauthorised hardware or software" to directly send commands to Sony IP (GT7 via PS remote play - which are both IP in their own right). IT DOES NOT MATTER THAT THE SCRIPT IS NOT RUNNING ON THE CONSOLE. Please, please understand this my friend. And I know I can prove this to you, the way to do it is hidden right there in that sentence, one simple word so powerful it may yet provide you with an epiphany.

"Hardware".

Hardware. You may not use any unauthorised hardware. Now, according to your own logic, the software MUST be running on the Playstation console to be covered by the EULA, right? So please tell me how that logic factors in hardware, because by definition unauthorised hardware is literally anything other than the console and it's authorised peripherals. If you apply that same meaning to software, then it becomes clear that this is not limited to software installed specifically on Playstation hardware.

 

[Delta795]

Thanks, but you can't use race cars? Only road cars?

Pretty sure, if have to recheck, but I know the Tomahawk S was fastest car I could use. Not the other one.

 

[tehPete]

BRO HOW?? This will probably have to be my final response because at this point it doesn't really make a difference if you are trolling intentionally or not. You're just flat out ignoring anything that threatens your point of view.

Please understand this because I think this is probably the biggest blocking point for you here; Scripts fall within the classification of software. You are literally doing this "27.6.3. use any unauthorised hardware or software" to directly send commands to Sony IP (GT7 via PS remote play - which are both IP in their own right). IT DOES NOT MATTER THAT THE SCRIPT IS NOT RUNNING ON THE CONSOLE. Please, please understand this my friend. And I know I can prove this to you, the way to do it is hidden right there in that sentence, one simple word so powerful it may yet provide you with an epiphany.

"Hardware".

Hardware. You may not use any unauthorised hardware. Now, according to your own logic, the software MUST be running on the Playstation console to be covered by the EULA, right? So please tell me how that logic factors in hardware, because by definition unauthorised hardware is literally anything other than the console and it's authorised peripherals. If you apply that same meaning to software, then it becomes clear that this is not limited to software installed specifically on Playstation hardware.

It's ironic that you accuse me of trolling and / or ignorance, while responding with such sarcasm.

[e] What are the chances that the Venn Diagram of people complaining about script use, and people who have paid for MTX, is almost a perfect circle.

 

[Delta795]

Cheating in multiplayer and cheating in single player are vastly different though. Add to that the fact that, a monkey could be trained to drive around an oval track, no one has ever mentioned being banned for rubber banding in a GT game, and the fact that telling the difference between all three concepts would likely be a waste of resources. I don't see them taking action on this issue.

The reverse pit lane entry glitch in GT Sport was a far more egregious means of earning credits as it was an actual exploit and while it was patched out, no one was banned for it.

I don't disagree for the most part.
Unless they feel it "may" cut into the micro-transaction profits - then all bets are off.

My main point was they have shown they can track cheating using macros & scripts & have been willing to ban & punish offenders.

People in here are acting like they can't or won't. Which is not true

 

[Delta795]

I'll say it again; unless playing the game a lot constitutes gaining an advantage over others, there's nothing they can do - not even under section 27, which is referring to the use of the console hardware itself, the PSN, and the IP in question.

27.3.2 is as close as they get to anything like being able to restrict people running scripts on their PC to play a game through a remote play client provided by the console manufacturer, and even then it's completely unenforcable from a legal perspective because laws aren't written to allow, they're written to prohibit - they're reactive, not proactive. It simply doesn't hold water and would be laughed out of any court.

If you were using the Playstation itself to run the script, then Sony would be able to do something; likewise if people were modifying the Remote Play client. Neither of those things is happening. Absolutely no Sony product, software or IP has been hacked or modified, nor needs to be for the script to work and the script is run on a non-Sony machine. No Sony IP is infringed or effected in any way.

There is literally nothing they can do as it stands. They would have to implement some major changes to the ToS for either PSN or the game itself in order to block script use as it applies here, and that would open them up to a significant number of refund claims at the very least.

You keep telling yourself that. If they don't then good on you bad for them.

Sony has in the past already done exactly what you say they can't & won't. The easiest way for them to punish those that have been found is to roll back those accounts / or flat out remove your funds or cars purchased with them. And YES they've done that in the past too.

 

[Grimm6Jack]

First you say Sony should ban people, then you have nothing against people using it... a bit confused...

Up until PD solves problem of earning cache in game, I will use BMB afk method, and there is nothing in EULA that prevents me using it, neither in GT7 nor in PS Remote Play... If you don't want to use it, it's your call...

Sony didn't ban anyone for using N24 pitstop glitch in GTS, didn't ban anyone in GT6 for using VGT exploit, not sure why would they do it now, since one that is using script is basically locking his/her console for playing only one game, and also additionally PC...

@MrMattAdz please pin point me exact where it states it is against EULA?

English is likely your first language (and neither is mine btw) which is likely why you were not able to interpretate what I stated.

Sony should ban people who use scripts because that's the way corporations and game developers must act. It's not the way to play a game.
However, the economy of GT7 is so broken and I (me personally) won't judge people who use scripts to farm credits, as long as it doesn't affect other players, which it doesn't.

Hopefully you understood it this way.

And by the way, I myself am also farming with my A-spec Bob.


And yes, the VGT exploit was so obvious in GT6 that even then NO ONE was banned for it. And using game exploits and bugs or glitches on the game itself to get "an advantage" is actually worse than AFK scripts.

 

[MrMattAdz]

It's ironic that you accuse me of trolling and / or ignorance, while responding with such sarcasm.

[e] What are the chances that the Venn Diagram of people complaining about script use, and people who have paid for MTX, is almost a perfect circle.

Apologies for being overly sarcastic, it's nothing personal.

Haven't purchased an MTX in GT7 and don't have a problem with people running scripts, it's a victimless crime (like punching someone in the dark, to quote a certain cartoon bully). I do have a problem with misinformation, whether it's intentional or not.

More than happy to take your complete non response to the arguments laid out as an admission that you've now realised that however unlikely you are to be caught or for Sony to take action if you are caught, and it is unlikely, using a script is clearly against the terms set out in related Playstation EULAs.

What are the chances that the Venn Diagram of people saying that it's impossible to be banned for script use, and people who have used a script, is almost a perfect circle.

 

[FPV MIC]

I don't care either way what people do or don't do but wouldn't this script fall into the same sort of grey area as things like Drivehub, CronusMAX and the like? Edit: They're both still going, even with Sony trying to stop Drivehub from operating on the PS5 (thanks to the Hori pad).

Edit 2: For those that don't know, these are devices that allow unauthorized steering wheels to be used on both PlayStation and Xbox platforms by using an authorized controller and their own software to trick the machines into thinking they're an authorized unit. To my knowledge none of these companies have ever been prosecuted.

 

[rex1825]

Section 27 as a whole deals with "ownership and use of IP rights". That's not the only relevant part; it's a sub-section of 27.6. The full text is:

27.6. Do not do any of the following in connection with Authorised Systems, PSN or Products:

• 27.6.1. emulate them;
• 27.6.2. disrupt their operation;
• 27.6.3. use any unauthorised hardware or software;

An "Authorised System" is earlier defined as any PlayStation console of any era, and "Products" as "all the digital content and digital services available via PSN. Products may be free or paid-for. Products include games, music, movies, subscriptions, PSN Wallet top up service and funds, virtual communities (where you can interact with other players) and more."

As per the above, using a script (software) to run an automated money-making function on a PS4/5 would seem to fall entirely under for "Do not [use any unauthorised hardware or software] in connection with [PlayStation console], PSN or [games, music, movies, etc.]" (and it does say "in connection with", so no Sony product - console or game - needs to be modified to fall under this), as something you're not entitled to do.


I have approached a consumer rights lawyer with regards to everything brought up recently - from mis-selling (inappropriate Store descriptions) to refunds and this particular issue - and we'll see what the response is.

However, whether you or I, or the consumer rights lawyer, agree or disagree, it's considerably downstream of the process. Sony can unilaterally terminate your service for pretty much any reason it sees fit, and any dispute you have with its reasoning - and lawyers - come afterwards.

...seems as US PSN ToS are different, not sure why!

 

[MidFieldMaven]

I like Time Trial Cup. 100k for 4 minutes.

 

[sejtur]

I like Time Trial Cup. 100k for 4 minutes.

4 laps in 4 minutes? How do you do that? I have like 1:40 per lap.

 

[mynameis66]

I like Time Trial Cup. 100k for 4 minutes.

Both races in 4 mins? That means your doing laps in under a minute,what are you using?

 

[MidFieldMaven]

My bad I meant 4 minutes per race so like 8...10 with loading.

 

[rex1825]

I don't care either way what people do or don't do but wouldn't this script fall into the same sort of grey area as things like Drivehub, CronusMAX and the like? Edit: They're both still going, even with Sony trying to stop Drivehub from operating on the PS5 (thanks to the Hori pad).

Edit 2: For those that don't know, these are devices that allow unauthorized steering wheels to be used on both PlayStation and Xbox platforms by using an authorized controller and their own software to trick the machines into thinking they're an authorized unit. To my knowledge none of these companies have ever been prosecuted.

...well, imagine me when I got myself a PS4 and was awaiting GTS to come out, and decided to get my old Logitech Driving Force GT a go... or shall I say a NO GO... since someone decided that people need to buy new peripherals...

I was so mad, since wheel is working even today, any of those additional controller hubs were out of the questions, because where I live... so I saw GIMX, and for less then 5$ I got my self a adaptor so I could use my old working flawless wheel... yes there was one little limitation, in order to use it, I needed DualShock 4 connected and some sort of computing machine (aka PC or RaspberryPI). But it was working, and I had a lot of fun...

Is this considered cheating?!?! It is simply said greed of companies, and I don't care for that stupid excuse that USBs are not supported, wheel has not got a module blah blah blah... same thing is happening now with DualSense not supported on PS4 (simple reason, all DualSense functions would work on PS4 without a problem, Sony doesn't want that) and even that I over come with simple USB dongle called Myflash Magic S Pro before I got my self a PS5, since DualSense controller you could buy anywhere, but PS5 nowhere...

 

[rex1825]

BTW here is exact how much one can earn with current three meta races, it all depends what is easier for you and also, this is casual racing, so one can get few seconds here and there off all races with loading/restarting on PS5 using DualSense controller

Blue Moon Bay with Tomahawk S... approx 4:20 with payout of 52k, or 730k per hour


Fisherman's Ranch with any Group B car (I use Audi S1)... approx 3:30 with payout of 45k, or 770k per hour


Sardegna Windmills with any Group B car (I use Audi SI)... approx 4:15 with payout of 60k, or 850k per hour

 

[FPV MIC]

...well, imagine me when I got myself a PS4 and was awaiting GTS to come out, and decided to get my old Logitech Driving Force GT a go... or shall I say a NO GO... since someone decided that people need to buy new peripherals...

I was so mad, since wheel is working even today, any of those additional controller hubs were out of the questions, because where I live... so I saw GIMX, and for less then 5$ I got my self a adaptor so I could use my old working flawless wheel... yes there was one little limitation, in order to use it, I needed DualShock 4 connected and some sort of computing machine (aka PC or RaspberryPI). But it was working, and I had a lot of fun...

Is this considered cheating?!?! It is simply said greed of companies, and I don't care for that stupid excuse that USBs are not supported, wheel has not got a module blah blah blah... same thing is happening now with DualSense not supported on PS4 (simple reason, all DualSense functions would work on PS4 without a problem, Sony doesn't want that) and even that I over come with simple USB dongle called Myflash Magic S Pro before I got my self a PS5, since DualSense controller you could buy anywhere, but PS5 nowhere...

How you feel and what you do is totally up to you. As I already mentioned I don't have any issues with people using Drivehub, Cronus, Gimx or these scripts. I was just wondering if they all fit in the same grey area, an area that Sony doesn't seem to want to prosecute people. Whether they're able to or not is for people much smarter than myself.

 

[rex1825]

@FPV MIC not sure man, not sure... I mean, I don't see it as advantage over other players, since everyone can use it... On other hand, that same script is burning your PS and PC, and giving you for that 550k per hour on PS5, on PS4 is even less, far less... and in that same time you cannot use PS, while somewhat use PC.

Donno... and at the end, PD just released 1.09, I see defeating this script as a pretty easy change in game, script relies on entering tournament, finishing first race, either time based (which makes some problems) or by watching for finishing colors (AKA purple one on finishing screen) then going through menus to next race, and reentering tournament... PD could just switch races, let's say Interlagos as first one, and all this would be for nothing... yet they did nothing... what does this say to you?

 

[FPV MIC]

@FPV MIC not sure man, not sure... I mean, I don't see it as advantage over other players, since everyone can use it... On other hand, that same script is burning your PS and PC, and giving you for that 550k per hour on PS5, on PS4 is even less, far less... and in that same time you cannot use PS, while somewhat use PC.

Donno... and at the end, PD just released 1.09, I see defeating this script as a pretty easy change in game, script relies on entering tournament, finishing first race, either time based (which makes some problems) or by watching for finishing colors (AKA purple one on finishing screen) then going through menus to next race, and reentering tournament... PD could just switch races, let's say Interlagos as first one, and all this would be for nothing... yet they did nothing... what does this say to you?

Regarding the bit I bolded, this is pretty much how I see it, they did nothing, and just as you mentioned it would have been as easy as switching the races around. This is why I think it's in the grey area (like Drivehub etc.).

We'll more than likely see what PD's intentions are next update. Hopefully B Spec won't be necessary for anyone after that adjustment.

 

[jrbabbitt]

EDIT: Incorrect info fixed...10 laps not 2 laps, and time corrected.

Well if you don't mind racing in the rain then go to Fuji International Raceway and do the World Touring Car 800, 10 laps clean will net you 105,000.
I detuned my 917 legend and put race wets on as and won it easy in about 20 minutes (PS4 slim)

Easy peasy lemon squeezy

 

[Jump_Ace]

Interesting thread. I enjoyed the lawyer video, but he didn't mention that code of conduct piece, or did he?


Jerome

 

[Delta795]

BTW here is exact how much one can earn with current three meta races, it all depends what is easier for you and also, this is casual racing, so one can get few seconds here and there off all races with loading/restarting on PS5 using DualSense controller

Blue Moon Bay with Tomahawk S... approx 4:20 with payout of 52k, or 730k per hour


Fisherman's Ranch with any Group B car (I use Audi S1)... approx 3:30 with payout of 45k, or 770k per hour


Sardegna Windmills with any Group B car (I use Audi SI)... approx 4:15 with payout of 60k, or 850k per hour

Blue Moon with Tomahawk S is 3:24on avg for me. Add 25 seconds to skip to next race and reset is 3.49 for 52k or 14,899 per minute
That's 893.94k per hour

 

[Ferrari458Italia]

I think if PD actually did anything about the scripts then I imagine it would be a huge PR nightmare for them. Imagine the narrative that would come from it. The whole reason why these things were created was due to the unjustified economy of this game. They are not affecting anybody either. Not all of us have the time to grind like we used to. Racing games are fun when you get to drive your dream/favorite cars

 

[Pizzicato1985]

RE: Remote Play macros:

It's no different than an unemployed meth addict grinding the game for 48hr straight. Might technically be against TOS, but eh... Good luck proving damages or repairing the PR ****-storm it would ignite. They'll never take legal action.

My game, I paid for it, I'll use it as I please (as long as I'm not making money on it) No company is going to risk losing in court and setting precedent against their insane, borderline illegal TOS (not saying Sony's, but many company's TOS are) and being the one that blows the opposition to things like Right to Repair out of the water for everyone... Yeah, you'd have pretty much every Fortune 500 company in the world hating you at that point. The worst they'll do is move Blue Moon to the back of the Pan-Am, or add a screen that pops-up every hour asking if you're still playing to interrupt the script. MAYBE disabling GT7 from Remote Play, but I doubt it.

Outside of adding even worse DRM and garnering even more hate, I don't see how they can stop it. Well, aside from just making the economy generous with payouts, thus killing any need for the scripts in the first place.

 

[ApexGun]

(fuji world touring car 800 in the 917 legend gift car)

This is probably the best one in the game at the moment. You just need to make sure you get the clean race, which makes it interesting anyway and it's over 1million per hour and still a little fun in a car that most people have.

 

[B80]

...well, imagine me when I got myself a PS4 and was awaiting GTS to come out, and decided to get my old Logitech Driving Force GT a go... or shall I say a NO GO... since someone decided that people need to buy new peripherals...

I was so mad, since wheel is working even today, any of those additional controller hubs were out of the questions, because where I live... so I saw GIMX, and for less then 5$ I got my self a adaptor so I could use my old working flawless wheel... yes there was one little limitation, in order to use it, I needed DualShock 4 connected and some sort of computing machine (aka PC or RaspberryPI). But it was working, and I had a lot of fun...

Is this considered cheating?!?! It is simply said greed of companies, and I don't care for that stupid excuse that USBs are not supported, wheel has not got a module blah blah blah... same thing is happening now with DualSense not supported on PS4 (simple reason, all DualSense functions would work on PS4 without a problem, Sony doesn't want that) and even that I over come with simple USB dongle called Myflash Magic S Pro before I got my self a PS5, since DualSense controller you could buy anywhere, but PS5 nowhere...

Reported... for suggested bypass of PD/Sony regulations...

 

[kp1993wroc]

Daytona oval with trucks.

45k after the easiest clean race bonus every 5 minutes (running 58 second laps). Tundra with a supercharger, sport Softs and some miscellaneous bits (tranny a must for top speed). Very little money spent, 495k per hour (as less than 20 seconds between races on a ps5)... 11 races due to time bewteen race

I’ve developed Stockholm Syndrome with the truck race. The other Daytona oval is more efficient but requires more concentration.

I’ve gotten the race down to 4:25, if it takes longer it’s to avoid the roadblock that inevitably forms. My top lap is like 51.5, and today I got the Raptor to 183mph.

Can you please lend a hand on a setup please?

 

[rex1825]

Blue Moon with Tomahawk S is 3:24on avg for me. Add 25 seconds to skip to next race and reset is 3.49 for 52k or 14,899 per minute
That's 893.94k per hour

Yet I finished race faster then you, 3:15, and reloading same race on PS5 uses 45-50s... Not sure on what faster console are you playing the game...

If you look close on video of BMB I played, after you press start race, 15seconda pass before race starts, after that you race for how long you do (I did in approx 3:15) and then it takes another 45s to reenter and press start race again... So please... You aren't getting anything beyond 730k per hour if you race slower then me...