"Big Tobacco"

[Ghost C]

If there's one thing in the world that I hate, it's some of the stupid commercials that Anti-Smoking Campaignists come up with. For instance, there's a commercial with a guy saying "I've got # types of cancer because of big tobacco" - No, you have cancer because YOU made a choice. Nobody put a gun to your head and told you to smoke. And I don't even want to hear any of this peer pressure crap, we all went through it, some of us were smart enough to know better. I enjoy a cigar every once in a while, and if I get cancer in my mouth because of it, you won't see me blame the companies that sell cigars for my own personal decision.

I'd like to hear everyone else's thoughts on the subject.

 

[Rogue Ssv]

Yes, yes very true.
However, Big Tobacco (Hindu accent, no offense Hindus, just quoting Apu from The Simpsons) is a very bad man--er... corporation. Did you know that they make flavored cigarettes among other things to try and get more teens smoking? But despite their efforts, numbers in teen smoking have declined this past decade by almost half.

 

[niky]

In other words, the brainwashing and cartoon camel don't work anymore.

But seriously, it is dumb. People have been smoking since time immemorial (oh, okay, at least since the Indians showed the white man the uses of tobacco leaf) and while I disagree with it personally (hey, I'm at least half-liberal... ), another person's life and decisions are theirs to make.

Stupid commercials or not, they're one side of the coin, though... a bit over-the-top (probably took cues from Greenpeace)... but they have a point. May be wasted effort, though, as the number of young smokers isn't what it used to be. Guess it just isn't cool anymore.

I'm neutral on it, is what I'm trying to say, I guess. But I do despise the tobacco advertising ban in certain motorsports, as it hampers a lot of teams. I guess it's okay to have half a bottle of Johnnie Walker and get behind the wheel, even though it's evil to light up a Marlboro to calm your nerves before you drive...

Doesn't make sense to ban tobacco advertising when we're still telling our kids it's okay to get sloshed, in ads, in TV shows and in movies... or to get high... in TV shows and movies, also...

I find it funny that marijuana is becoming more socially acceptable than tobacco. Go figure... maybe Philip Morris should start soft-marketing "special cigs" for cancer patients.

 

[Master_Yoda]

In other words, the brainwashing and cartoon camel don't work anymore.

It's illegal for Camel, to have Joe Camal on there comericals... But it's still there symbol and stuff, but they made it illegal. Because more kids reconised Joe Camel then, Barney, Ronald McDonald, and the President. It's been proven many times.

EDIT: Special Sigs won't work, weed has substances that help people not feel pain, and other things. I have a friend who has a weed card, and a friends dad. Regular cigs won't work.

 

[YSSMAN]

I'm a beliver in "Smoker's Rights" despite the fact that I am not a smoker myself. I truely think it is obsurd how these people have been chased out of every safe-haven for smoking. You can't even smoke in a bar in New York City, and from what I understand, it can be illegal to smoke in your car as well in many places throughout the world.

Why?

...Because the government and other PAC groups think they know what is best for all of us. Personally, it shouldn't matter, as it is the people's right to choose if they wish to smoke or not.

It is a dirty, dirty habit and companies like Philip Morris make big-bucks off of the sales of the of "vice," but guess what, it is between the smokers and the businesses.

 

[Sage]

No, you have cancer because YOU made a choice.

You’re asking for people to have personal responsibility? Haha haha haha, good one!

People are dumb, people aren’t responsible, people feel entitled to everything in the world. It’s the crap culture we have to deal with.

 

[Omnis]

Well, now, even candy cigarettes taste horrible.

 

[Danoff]

Everybody has to be a victim of something right? Nobody ever wants to take responsibility for their actions. Why do that when you can blame others for your problems?

Smoking? Big Tobacco's fault.
Eating? It's a genetic disorder.
Short attention span? ADD, not my fault.
Poor? It's the rich people's fault.
Poor? It's the white people's fault.
Poor? It's the president's fault.
Alcoholic? It's a disease.
Asthma? Must be pollution. (I'm not saying this is your fault, but it doesn't have to be someone else's)
Hurricane wipes out your city? Must be the government's fault.
Gang Member? Had no other choices.
Murderer? Mentally ill.
Burned yourself with coffee? McDonalds is to blame.
Slipped on the floor at work? Must be the company's fault.
What's wrong with the world? The other political party.
Illegal Immigration? They have no choice.
Didn't get into college? Racism.
Didn't get the job? Racism.
Got poor marks at school? Racism/ADD/Parents/Teachers/Textbooks/Peer Pressure

 

[SRV2LOW4ME]

I don't know if anyone is paying attention to Canadian news or not, but up here in Ontario the government, starting yesterday (May 31st) it is illegal to smoke in any business, resturaunt, work place or public place. That means, if you are walking your dog in the park and want to have a smoke, you have to go to the street in order to do it. Also, its now illegal to smoke anywhere where a roof or cover is above. That means all the covered patio's that businesses put up for people to smoke in are now useless. Also, they made it illegal to advertise or show in any way smoking ads or packs of cigarettes in stores. That means all the cigarette shelves behind the counter are now closed and locked. It seems like they're making it more of an inconvience to smoke and sell smokes then attempting to solve the problem.

What I don't get is this though, a couple years ago they said if you wanted to allow smoking at your business you had to make a seperate enclosure, with air seperate from the rest of the building, which many businessses complied too, even going as far as to build seperate glass enclosures for smokers to stand in at work places. Now they're saying those aren't allowed either, and anyone caught smoking inside them will be charged. WTF! If your a non-smoker and hanging out in these area's then you deserve whatever you get as you know what they're for, and have been told the side effects. They are made for people who smoke to keep our habit away from those that don't, simple as that, anyone who doesn't smoke should know enough to keep out of them unless they want to subject themselves to second hand smoke.

I can understand making it illegal to smoke in areas where kids and non smokers go about their daily activities, as I don't want to see them forced out of an area simply because of my habit. BUT when I do the right thing and go else where, away from them and to an area SPECIFICALLY MADE FOR ME TO SMOKE IN and still get forced out by non smokers, then I start getting a little ticked off. You can't blame smokers for something you willfully subjected yourself too.

I should start acting like the non-smokers to everyone else's vices. From now on i'm going to walk up to all the fat people I see eating Wendy's in their cars and scream "stop eating, your killing yourself and making a bad example for my kids!" then force them to eat it in the streets.

 

[Rogue Ssv]

Everybody has to be a victim of something right? Nobody ever wants to take responsibility for their actions. Why do that when you can blame others for your problems?

Smoking? Big Tobacco's fault.
Eating? It's a genetic disorder.
Short attention span? ADD, not my fault.
Poor? It's the rich people's fault.
Poor? It's the white people's fault.
Poor? It's the president's fault.
Alcoholic? It's a disease.
Asthma? Must be pollution. (I'm not saying this is your fault, but it doesn't have to be someone else's)
Hurricane wipes out your city? Must be the government's fault.
Gang Member? Had no other choices.
Murderer? Mentally ill.
Burned yourself with coffee? McDonalds is to blame.
Slipped on the floor at work? Must be the company's fault.
What's wrong with the world? The other political party.
Illegal Immigration? They have no choice.
Didn't get into college? Racism.
Didn't get the job? Racism.
Got poor marks at school? Racism/ADD/Parents/Teachers/Textbooks/Peer Pressure

So true, those retards...
But poor marks for me is because I dont pay effort.
Anyway, er... what Sage said, basically...

 

[FoolKiller]

I should start acting like the non-smokers to everyone else's vices. From now on i'm going to walk up to all the fat people I see eating Wendy's in their cars and scream "stop eating, your killing yourself and making a bad example for my kids!" then force them to eat it in the streets.

Well, make them eat out of sight of everyone else so none of us are tempted to eat fast food too.

Our local law is you have to make 80% of profits from alcohol to allow smoking. I only know of two places that match this, Buffalo Wild Wings (wings are cheap, beer isn't) and Old Chicago (110 beers, 30 on tap, you sell a lot). These two restaurants are where I go once a week with guys from work. None of us smoke, but I will support places where anyone who did could join us.

 

[Pupik]

I'm a beliver in "Smoker's Rights" despite the fact that I am not a smoker myself. I truely think it is obsurd how these people have been chased out of every safe-haven for smoking.

Smoke in your home? Fine.
Smoke in your car? Fine.
Smoke on your boat? Fine.
Smoke in a open-air place like a park or your back yard? Fine.

Smoke in a public place....No thank you.

It's a health hazard to allow people to smoke in a contained area. Why should someone else reduce my ability to breathe well. Why should I have to smell thier crap? I can't burn a pile of trash next to my table, why should a smoker be allowed to do something similar?

Smoker's rights go out the window (no pun intended) when they can't be bothered to stay 50 feet from the entrances and windows of a buliding.

In any case, I can't beleive people are awarded all these millions of dollars depite thousands and thousands of warnings of cigarette use over the years. No matter to Big Tabacco, lots more people are legally addicted to Kraft Macaroni & Cheese and Nabisco Oreo cookies, among other things.

Again, asking for personal responsibility is too much to expect.

 

[Danoff]

I can't stand the anti-smoking laws. It's persecution. It creates a protected class in non-smokers, and if there's one thing libertarians hate it's protected classes.

Smoker's rights go out the window (no pun intended) when they can't be bothered to stay 50 feet from the entrances and windows of a buliding.

Their rights went out the window when they were forced to stay 50 feet away from the entrance and windows.

They wouldn't be hanging out at the entrance if they weren't forced there by the current laws anyway. I've got no problem with restaurants and businesses having a no smoking policy of their own - or making smokers go outside. But when the government forces restaurants or businesses that cater to smokers to conform, there's a real issue.

 

[Swift]

They wouldn't be hanging out at the entrance if they weren't forced there by the current laws anyway. I've got no problem with restaurants and businesses having a no smoking policy of their own - or making smokers go outside. But when the government forces restaurants or businesses that cater to smokers to conform, there's a real issue.

Seriously.

I can't stand smoking. I hate it! However, it's not for the government to say, "Smoking is legal, but not anywhere at anytime."

I can't stand the anti-smoking laws. It's persecution. It creates a protected class in non-smokers, and if there's one thing libertarians hate it's protected classes.

Not only libertarians.

 

[Rogue Ssv]

I too disagree with this law. They can ban smoking in public places, but in the special smoking section of the restraunts or bars how can they even do that? They were built so people could smoke without disturbing others .
They shouldnt have any jurisdiction over that.
Hell, is that even constitutional?

 

[FoolKiller]

I too disagree with this law. They can ban smoking in public places, but in the special smoking section of the restraunts or bars how can they even do that? They were built so people could smoke without disturbing others .
They shouldnt have any jurisdiction over that.
Hell, is that even constitutional?

That is the question. Of course, you could ask the same about making private businesses even have special smoking places. You could ask that question about anything involving the legal activities performed in or by a private business.

I am of the opinion that if it is such a big deal then make it illegal, but since they lack the er...guts to do that then they should back off from private businesses altogether.

 

[Wolfe]

I agree that smokers need to be chased out of many public places, but I also think that the decision to do so is up to the owners of the business.

I just recently heard that one of the VFW's in my area is closing down -- they no longer get any business because of the smoking ban.

 

[Rogue Ssv]

That is the question. Of course, you could ask the same about making private businesses even have special smoking places. You could ask that question about anything involving the legal activities performed in or by a private business.

I am of the opinion that if it is such a big deal then make it illegal, but since they lack the er...guts to do that then they should back off from private businesses altogether.

So basically, either ban it altogether or back off? Yeah thats what I think they should do...
And I dont like smoking at all...

 

[Pupik]

I can't stand the anti-smoking laws. It's persecution. It creates a protected class in non-smokers, and if there's one thing libertarians hate it's protected classes.

What about my rights to be free from air contamination? Again, let me burn plastic and polystyrene in the same room as a smoker, it might as well be the same thing.

 

[FoolKiller]

So basically, either ban it altogether or back off? Yeah thats what I think they should do...
And I dont like smoking at all...

Well, if it is the public health issue they make it out to be then it needs to be illegal. Politicians know that even though smoking is at an all-time low there are still enough smokers to knock them out of office.

So instead they hide behind the public health issue (despite lack of evidence for second-hand smoke) and create constitutionally questionable ordinances.

They are to the point where they are essentially saying they don't care if smokers are in a seperate ecosystem, if non-smnokers can see them it is offensive and dangerous. It went from the point of being able to try and make excuses to downright silly. In the words of Dennis Leary, "What is the law now? You can only smoke, at home, with the doors locked, and the lights out while hiding under the covers?" Something like that.

What about my rights to be free from air contamination? Again, let me burn plastic and polystyrene in the same room as a smoker, it might as well be the same thing.

What about the rights of the business owner to allow whatever legal activities he so chooses?

 

[F1GTR]

I'm with Pupik on this. It's completely stupid smoking in public areas where people with children are likley to use. If smokers are addicted to the point they can't even not light one up for an hour, they should go to rehab.

 

[Famine]

What about my rights to be free from air contamination? Again, let me burn plastic and polystyrene in the same room as a smoker, it might as well be the same thing.

A Martini chucks out more airborne carcinogens than a cigarette. So stop drinking in smoking rooms.

 

[Swift]

So stop drinking in smoking rooms.

Heh heh.

 

[Rogue Ssv]

Once again, Famine how do you know these things!?

 

[Carl.]

I'm with Pupik too.

Smokers can cry me a river about it, I don't care. We've had our right to breathe fresh air infringed for decades thanks to them. The majority of non-smoking areas in restaurants were a friggin joke. Too many invisible walls that "magically stopped" the smoke from going from one "section" to another.

If there was proper smoking zones in the first place, or if smokers didn't abuse, that law would never have been passed.

 

[Swift]

If there was proper smoking zones in the first place, or if smokers didn't abuse, that law would never have been passed.

Yes, it would've. The government's getting more and more into our lives taking away freedoms and saying what is "good" for us.

The only laws that should be applied smokers are on PUBLICLY OWNED property. Outside of that, the government has no right to tell me what to do as long as it's legal.

 

[Famine]

I'm with Pupik too.

Smokers can cry me a river about it, I don't care. We've had our right to breathe fresh air infringed for decades thanks to them. The majority of non-smoking areas in restaurants were a friggin joke. Too many invisible walls that "magically stopped" the smoke from going from one "section" to another.

If there was proper smoking zones in the first place, or if smokers didn't abuse, that law would never have been passed.

Who was it that frog-marched you into the restaurant again?

 

[FoolKiller]

Smokers can cry me a river about it, I don't care. We've had our right to breathe fresh air infringed for decades thanks to them. The majority of non-smoking areas in restaurants were a friggin joke. Too many invisible walls that "magically stopped" the smoke from going from one "section" to another.

If there was proper smoking zones in the first place, or if smokers didn't abuse, that law would never have been passed.

Who was getting their rights infringed upon? You or the private business owner?

He owns the property and the building, he has the right to allow whetevr legal actions he wants. You have the privilege to visit his business and eat his food/buy his products or services. What if he is the one doing the smoking? You just walked in and told him he couldn't smoke in his own place because you didn't want to be around it. Well, if you don't want to be around it I can tell you where to sit....somewhere else.

 

[Max_DC]

A Martini chucks out more airborne carcinogens than a cigarette. So stop drinking in smoking rooms.

Well if you say so, that might be right. Still it is a difference imo. the carcinogens are the problem, but if they are comined with fumes and other scientific terms I could say in German but not in English they get much easier access into your body(lungs to be specific, the dust will settle down in the alveoles together with the carciongens etc) than the substances in the Martini, that are more likely to move out of the room before you inhalate them and let's face it, the Martini comes out of the bottle and is consumed within a few minutes, so only a small part reacts with air. So what you pointed out is more or less scientific theory, whereas passive smoking really is a problem.
Don't get me wrong, I did not read anything about the Martini problem, but I highly doubt that the effective carcinogens reach a relevant amount under normal circumstances or am I wrong ? I know you guys from biochemistry, you love your mol/l calculations, but don't you forget physiology...

 

[Carl.]

Yes, it would've. The government's getting more and more into our lives taking away freedoms and saying what is "good" for us.

You know, I understand that many of us are getting fed up by people always trying to demonize big corporations in their discourse, or that systematically accuse Wall Street, globalization, mercantilism and savage capitalism for for anything going wrong in this world...

But you're doing exactly the same, just on the opposite side. Hearing ad nauseum how our government is intrinsicallyt evil in all it does (except when cutting tax or fighting for capitalism / freedom / democracy) is getting mighty tiresome.

You're saying our "big government" is always getting more and more into regulating my life and telling me what I can't do?

How is it then, that in the last years my own governemnt, whichi is considered way more left-leaning than yours, has also:

• Allowed gay marriages
• Lifted restrictions on private swinger clubs.
• Lifted restrictions on adult clubs (strippers).
• Were considering legalizing prostitution (not sure if that has been dropped)
• Opened the door for private healthcare (it was only allowed for diagnostics before)
• Were about to decriminalize pot (before the Conservatives got in...)

These are off the top of my head, there's more...

No, the government isn't an evil entity on a power trip to control every aspects of our lives. It tries to make rational decisions on a case by case basis. Sometimes that means restricting some freedoms we had before (like driving after you had 10 beers), and at other times this means giving more freedom we didn't have before (like allowing gay people marriages/ civil unions).

@Famine:

No... You're right, I could have avoided going to restaurants in the first place, that's a great solution. Why haven't I thought of that?