Biggest game-changing feature Polyphony could add to GT series?

[1241Penguin]

I've played a NASCAR game for the PSP called NASCAR 07. The career mode requires that you start in some car called a Whelen Modified car (or something). I was quite disappointed that you had to work your way up to the Sprint Cup series (the only reason being that I disliked driving the Whelen Modified car).

Perhaps it would be a good idea for a new career mode, separate from GT Mode. I kind of like the idea of working from, let's call it, a Sunday Cup series, and then earning sponsorships and so on, and then working your way up to a more major league. Just don't have us start off with karts. Cars, please.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

*snip*

I mention karts because it's the more common way to become a professional driver:

-Scott Pruett
-Lewis Hamilton
-Fernando Alonso
-Sebastian Vettel (correct me if I'm wrong)

etc., all got their start in karting. The list is a lot longer, and includes Regan Smith (who raced at the same tracks I'm about to race at,) and various other well-known drivers.

It's more common. I've almost never heard of anyone making it into the big time from driving a Daihatsu around.

 

[thelvynau]

I mention karts because it's the more common way to become a professional driver:

-Scott Pruett
-Lewis Hamilton
-Fernando Alonso
-Sebastian Vettel (correct me if I'm wrong)

etc., all got their start in karting. The list is a lot longer, and includes Regan Smith (who raced at the same tracks I'm about to race at,) and various other well-known drivers.

It's more common. I've almost never heard of anyone making it into the big time from driving a Daihatsu around.

The only one I know who started in karting is Michael Schumaker (if thats how its spelled).

 

[1241Penguin]

*snip*

Maybe starting with karts could be an option. The game could give you several career paths which you can choose.

 

[thelvynau]

Maybe starting with karts could be an option. The game could give you several career paths which you can choose.

Wouldnt be bad think of the choices.

V8 supercars Australia
Nascar
F1

And all the others it would give you some much needed options on how you want to plot your career.

 

[1241Penguin]

Not only that, there could be some smaller, possibly fictional series as well, such as a Miata series, a Civic series, and so on.

 

[lazywolfe]

What is wrong with losing your Enzo if you wreck? You know what you do when that happens? You save up money to buy another one and be more careful. That's the *game* part. The *challenge* part. You'll get a rush when you race it because you know your million dollar racer is at stake. That makes the game more involved. Stuff like that can be integrated into gameplay without it being overly or hyper realistic. And obviously there's an arcade mode if people don't want that type of game experience.

It's just like any other game with progress. If I screw up in GTAIV, it's back to the drawing board. If I'm not prepared in FF13, I get my butt kicked and I start over at the beginning of the dungeon. I'm toast in MGS4 if I make a mistake. To me there's no difference, so I don't get why people don't want similar challenges in GT's a-spec mode.

Last rant: Career mode doesn't necessarily mean the game has to follow a set storyline. It just means have more to do. More championship series. Sponsorships, etc. There are so many good ideas in that one GT6 thread Earth started, so I won't rehash them here.

Rant over. lol

 

[Samus]

Those games you mentioned are story driven games so of course there is an element of going backwards if you fail, there isn't really any other option, is there? Gran Turismo is not a linear, story driven game so there is no need to take things away from you to hinder progression, it would just be an annoyance. Especially if you lost a rare car because some idiot t-boned you online.

It is a game, a game meant for fun and the challenge in a racing/driving game comes in the racing/driving.

 

[lazywolfe]

I get that it's a game. Of course it's meant for fun. I just don't get the argument you're making, which is what I was complaining about. The A-spec portion of GT is *not* just an arcade racer. It's clearly trying to give you sim/rpg-esque aspects in order to give you an involved gameplay experience. So why say expanding on that is an annoyance? You can say that about any feature that creates difficulty. Why do the licenses, why have levels to prevent you from going to any race you want? Why start with just 20k or whatever it is now? From the beginning they've been (poorly) adding RPG elements. There's a story to the game, it's just super vague and boring.

Online is different. In effect, it's a third game mode. I agree it's a hassle there because that's more on the arcade side of things. It's all spot races. I personally don't like the mixing of the two modes (Online money applying to A-spec), but I don't want to go on that tangent here.

 

[Tenacious D]

I love the way my post has sparked discussion on that possibility.

I was definitely thinking of some kind of SCCA/GT Academy thing, but was too tired to remember GT A. But the karting route is a very good idea, and I agree, would be a great option. And this whole idea of a lifelike Career Mode should be an entire separate mode, like online, that you can ignore completely if you want. A lot of us want to just race, and for that, there's Arcade and GT Modes.

Career Mode will allow you at the price of a game - and maybe PS4 - to live out the time-work-and-money intensive dream of getting into the racing world, the way real life humans do it. The way Lucas Ordones did it. I would love a game structure like that, which put you in low power lower class racing, and give you the chance to advance if you perform well. When you want a break from the season structure of your career, head on over to Arcade or GT Mode and have your quick, fun and collectible racing you're used to.

Having a storyline along with it would be fun but not necessary. Courting sponsorships could be elaborated with cinemas and choices, or be a simple matter as in Forza of being based on your progress. Do well, and you get much better companies backing you with a little bigger compensation to maintain your ride. Though Forza uses that dreaded experience point system which I hope dies a quick death.

I've been sitting on a GT6 suggestion post, and I really should dig that up and stick it in here.

 

[05XR8]

Design Studio: A wheel creator, tyre letter stencil and aero parts creator

 

[Exorcet]

What is wrong with losing your Enzo if you wreck?

Adds nothing to the game, and now you need to waste time getting it again.

You know what you do when that happens? You save up money to buy another one and be more careful. That's the *game* part. The *challenge* part.

I've found plenty of challenge in GT, mostly online where maintenance and credits have the weakest presence. The challenge came from competition and pushing the limits of my skill. Tacking on roadblocks to playing the game, such as losing a car for whatever reason won't add to that.

And obviously there's an arcade mode if people don't want that type of game experience.

Actually there isn't. Arcade mode is a joke really. Limited options, especially when it comes to opponents, no series races, etc. If we had a free mode that let us do anything, then everyone would win. However, there is no such mode, and Arcade Mode doesn't really come close in its current form.

It's just like any other game with progress. If I screw up in GTAIV, it's back to the drawing board. If I'm not prepared in FF13, I get my butt kicked and I start over at the beginning of the dungeon. I'm toast in MGS4 if I make a mistake. To me there's no difference, so I don't get why people don't want similar challenges in GT's a-spec mode.

Mess up in GT and you start the race over, so I don't see what is different between GT as it is and those games.

 

[Conza]

Alright guys, this'll blow the lid off all of them, ready for this? And it goes along with 'The Human Drama' we've heard about.

Talking - Cars.

Yes, talking, living, cars, that we develop relationships, kinda like Pokemon with motors, but without breaking the copyright laws.


...No?

Alright, well, if that doesn't appeal to them (don't know why it wouldn't, I'll make this video game).

Otherwise, open market among users? That's the best I got on the top of my head. Yes, have an in-game UCD (a better one than GT5s sorry excuse of 30 cars only, blegh), but on top of that, we can sell ANY car to any user.

As a completely seperate point, we should in the future, be able to trade AND gift an infinite amount of cars between users, so have a proper system in place, additionally to the gift system we have, where we have an interface that two users propose to trade Car A and Car B, they both select their cars for trade, then once both are displayed, and they both accept, the trade occurs (which'll stop people being ripped off, as we hear occassionally hearing happening in GT5 currently).

EDIT: Furthermore, we should be able to gift and trade infitite cars. Imagine how useful this could be, we could have two save files, and from one we can gift all of our cars, in one go (maybe limit it to sets of 100, 200, 500 or something, but be allowed infinite sets, or a data size limit for the trade).

 

[05XR8]

The Toyota electric car that looks like a puppy with mood lighting hinted at this. It was in GT4.

 

[Barn One]

What this game truly needs is two things.
1. Structure, for both online and offline.
2. two seperate discs or modes. One for the regular players and one for the sim players.

The structure is needed in type of vehichles that supposedly match up in the GT series and the races you do.
I'm so fed up with the current way of pick car, try modding car, try matching up car, failing, try again.
Unlike everyone that hates the same tired races of PD, FWD race series which is the same three tracks over and over, why not simply have to pick that race then it could randomize the tracks you'd race on. Then you could pull a GT3 with a one,3,5,etc race series.

As far as the cars go, there needs to be a mod to tier/bracket of racing lock.
Say you start out with a Miata MX-5.
There could be a stock series, lightly modified,medium etc.
With each build seperate in power/weight and bodykits allowable. (think Shift 2)
Official race cars would be slotted in they're appropriate places with mods locked out of them.

Online would follow the path of GT5 but with aids etc lock out or not from each selection.
I was so tired of seeing "race for real" rooms with every aid on, no damage, etc. When it says race for real, it should mean it.
There should be dedicated class/types for each online type.
You get the car you want to race, find the class it fits in, jump in race with others who are also locked in to that class.
There also desperately NEEDS to be a driver safety rating/grouping system.
I also got tired of jumping in rooms with track cutters,horrible drivers,arcade drivers attempting "sim" driving.

The two seperate physics also needs to happen. I know i'm not the only one tired of trying to run sim in a casual gamer area. Having a dedicated sim mode would allow the sim minded folk to run together without having to weed through the other folk who do not wish for that but still want their fun.

I know this wasn't the most well thought out/ fleshed out idea but i was trying to keep it brief without making a documentary about the NEEDED changes to a tired formula.
To be honest i'm awaiting a new race game. If PD wants my money they had damn well better throw everything and the kitchen sink at GT6 to get me back in. I was dissappointed with GT3, I hated GT4, GT5 was so incomplete as to be laughed at.
I recently bought all the DLC thinkimng it would respark my interest but wished i wouldn't have as both the online community is awful and the game itself (handling & sound)wise just can't hold my attention.

 

[lazywolfe]

Adds nothing to the game, and now you need to waste time getting it again.

All I can say is I respectfully disagree. There's a clear divide here on what constitutes challenge and fun in a game, so it seems pointless to continue debating it. I hope others chime in though.

 

[Exorcet]

Online would follow the path of GT5

You mean be more like A-Spec? If so, I'd have to say that would be a game killing disaster. Maybe they could have A-Spec like races online, put online as it was in GT5 was very good. They just need to add in a few more options for hosts and lobby searches.

I was so tired of seeing "race for real" rooms with every aid on, no damage, etc. When it says race for real, it should mean it.

I have to stop you there. The people who make "race for real" rooms and then force every aid off are as bad as the people they complain about. Aids are reality. It's really stupid and a bit annoying when people pretend that realism = difficulty.

The proper title for the room you're describe is "challenge race" or something along those lines. Full realism only implies that the room is limited to realistic options. In GT, that would mean no SRF, damage on, and tire/fuel use on. TCS, ABS, whatever are perfectly fine and if you wanted them off, call your room something else so that people won't think it's something that it's not.

And this is from someone who has never used TCS.

There should be dedicated class/types for each online type.

This is one of Forza's huge flaws. Since races only use pre set classes, there is a huge gap in the variety the game offers and what you can expect to see. I have many cars in Forza that make really great 550 or 650 PI cars, but the chances of finding a race to use them in is basically zero.

GT needs to let hosts do what they want. We don't need pre defined classes, and frankly they won't improve online racing. Instead PD needs to give hosts more options to set advanced rules for online races.

There also desperately NEEDS to be a driver safety rating/grouping system.
I also got tired of jumping in rooms with track cutters,horrible drivers,arcade drivers attempting "sim" driving.

As a room host I've solved this problem. If GT adds a safety rating, I'd probably turn it off (and there had better be an option to do so). If other people want to use it, that's fine though.

All I can say is I respectfully disagree. There's a clear divide here on what constitutes challenge and fun in a game

Yes, this is why options are always good.

 

[another_jakhole]

Just a better online system. It's too "strict" in that we don't have a Matchmaking quickmatch option to use (for specific tracks/options). I can't gain any momentum in finding good lobbies since I've found it to be very inconsistent and... untrustworthy.

 

[Crispy]

The worst idea PD could do is a "one or the other" type of game. You shouldn't be forced to play with full repairs and extreme realism if all you want is harder AI. It shouldn't be Easy Medium and Hard. You need to fine tune the difficulty. That way one can have all assists on with the hardest AI difficulty, while another can have full on realism if they do so desire.

 

[another_jakhole]

Now that's just strict as hell. Frickin irony, man.

 

[Conza]

I'm with Crispy 👍 I want realistic/not AND easy/medium/hard... no even very easy/easy (current AI)/normal/hard/insane. But I should be able to change difficulty without effecting realism, realistic and/or hard or less realistic and/or easy, ect, any combination, restricting difficulty based on realism is non-sense, what if I want to build up my realistic skills? Anyway, totally agree, PD should separate it next time.

 

[Barn One]

Well, Exorcet, let me just stop you. Race for real as i ran them, back when i hosted (and kept full rooms), every race series in real life that i knew of disallowed all aids. That means someone in GT5 run ABS on 5-10 with the brake balance up high as well plus TCS wasn't and still isn't running a realistic setup. They are and were taking advantage of a poorly implemented real life aid used in standard every day driving, not racing.

If these drivers wished to do so, fine, just not in any race class that was set for close to the real thing as possible.
I watched guys fly around the ring, tapping the brake just enough to whip around curves that in the real thing would have been wreck car city.
I had morons yell at me who never uses the aids, brake properly, because they use the tried and true turn car, flick brake, hit gas, next curve syndrome.

There NEEDS to be a bracket for full sim,period.
There also NEEDS to be a class structure. GT3,GT2,GT1, touring car clubsport level, Prototype,Nascar,etc etc.

Oh and there will ALWAYS be cars that do not "fit" in any spot. That is the nature of this type of car racing game, but having a modding option for the type of race you want to do would set a goal for you to reach instead of, tune up car, win race, wash repeat. <- that crap is 15 years to old.

As for host options, trust me, i'm all for options but i meant when you go online looking for a race, if there were dedicated set rooms where you arrive and drive without hosting or having a host it would have a much better flow.
The ranking system while by no means perfect is at the moment the only way to go.
Who's to say you can't have a wide range of series and room types? Not me.
Some want to free run, fine by me, some want casual style. I am simply tired of there being no set race type for full simulation. After 15 years i'm more than ready for it. I also bet i'm not alone in that thought track either.

 

[ShiftingGears]

You mean be more like A-Spec? If so, I'd have to say that would be a game killing disaster. Maybe they could have A-Spec like races online, put online as it was in GT5 was very good. They just need to add in a few more options for hosts and lobby searches.



I have to stop you there. The people who make "race for real" rooms and then force every aid off are as bad as the people they complain about. Aids are reality. It's really stupid and a bit annoying when people pretend that realism = difficulty.

The proper title for the room you're describe is "challenge race" or something along those lines. Full realism only implies that the room is limited to realistic options. In GT, that would mean no SRF, damage on, and tire/fuel use on. TCS, ABS, whatever are perfectly fine and if you wanted them off, call your room something else so that people won't think it's something that it's not.

And this is from someone who has never used TCS.



This is one of Forza's huge flaws. Since races only use pre set classes, there is a huge gap in the variety the game offers and what you can expect to see. I have many cars in Forza that make really great 550 or 650 PI cars, but the chances of finding a race to use them in is basically zero.

GT needs to let hosts do what they want. We don't need pre defined classes, and frankly they won't improve online racing. Instead PD needs to give hosts more options to set advanced rules for online races.


As a room host I've solved this problem. If GT adds a safety rating, I'd probably turn it off (and there had better be an option to do so). If other people want to use it, that's fine though.





Yes, this is why options are always good.

I agree totally. The PP idea isn't bad but it isn't perfect either, since generally the same type of cars will dominate. The more options the better.

 

[ShiftingGears]

Well, Exorcet, let me just stop you. Race for real as i ran them, back when i hosted (and kept full rooms), every race series in real life that i knew of disallowed all aids. That means someone in GT5 run ABS on 5-10 with the brake balance up high as well plus TCS wasn't and still isn't running a realistic setup. They are and were taking advantage of a poorly implemented real life aid used in standard every day driving, not racing.

Le Mans Prototypes use traction control, as did F1 until 2008. If a car has throttle-by-wire, the torque curve can be mapped to essentially integrate traction control.

There NEEDS to be a bracket for full sim,period.
There also NEEDS to be a class structure. GT3,GT2,GT1, touring car clubsport level, Prototype,Nascar,etc etc.



Oh and there will ALWAYS be cars that do not "fit" in any spot. That is the nature of this type of car racing game, but having a modding option for the type of race you want to do would set a goal for you to reach instead of, tune up car, win race, wash repeat. <- that crap is 15 years to old.

I think the standard way of tuning could remain alongside the options you suggested. Besides from that, I agree about the implementation of classes - would be a fantastic idea.

As for host options, trust me, i'm all for options but i meant when you go online looking for a race, if there were dedicated set rooms where you arrive and drive without hosting or having a host it would have a much better flow.
The ranking system while by no means perfect is at the moment the only way to go.
Who's to say you can't have a wide range of series and room types? Not me.
Some want to free run, fine by me, some want casual style. I am simply tired of there being no set race type for full simulation. After 15 years i'm more than ready for it. I also bet i'm not alone in that thought track either.

Agreed.

 

[Exorcet]

Well, Exorcet, let me just stop you. Race for real as i ran them, back when i hosted (and kept full rooms), every race series in real life that i knew of disallowed all aids.

As stated by ShiftingGears, there are real series that use the aids.

I watched guys fly around the ring, tapping the brake just enough to whip around curves that in the real thing would have been wreck car city.

That would only happen with SRF, which is not an aid but a modification of the physics. If people are flying through corners, it's not because of TCS or ASM which probably slow you down, but because they can drive.

There NEEDS to be a bracket for full sim,period.
There also NEEDS to be a class structure. GT3,GT2,GT1, touring car clubsport level, Prototype,Nascar,etc etc.

I misunderstood. This I agree with, the host should be able to filter cars according to their real life series in the lobby rules. I thought by classes you meant something like Forza's F, E, D, etc.

For "normal" lobbies, PP, power/weight, aero, drivetrain, tire, tuning part options need to be available all at the same time.

Oh and there will ALWAYS be cars that do not "fit" in any spot. That is the nature of this type of car racing game, but having a modding option for the type of race you want to do would set a goal for you to reach instead of, tune up car, win race, wash repeat. <- that crap is 15 years to old.

Whether or not a car fits is up to the host and what his intentions are.

I'm not sure what you mean with the rest of that paragraph.

As for host options, trust me, i'm all for options but i meant when you go online looking for a race, if there were dedicated set rooms where you arrive and drive without hosting or having a host it would have a much better flow.
The ranking system while by no means perfect is at the moment the only way to go.

OK

Who's to say you can't have a wide range of series and room types? Not me.
Some want to free run, fine by me, some want casual style. I am simply tired of there being no set race type for full simulation. After 15 years i'm more than ready for it. I also bet i'm not alone in that thought track either.

You're not. All my rooms are as realistic as possible. Occasionally I find a few others who host the same rooms, but I think the biggest problem in finding these rooms is not that they aren't managed by PD (and I'd be worried about that since they forced SRF on in some seasonals) but because there is no good way to search and sort lobbies.

 

[Warbeast101]

do we really want our beloved real driving simulator to change in the core...or just be improved? i just want technical improvements and nothing more

 

[therealfan1]

If you want a challenge from A.I., use a slower vehicle. There's no excuse for a better A.I.

 

[Samus]

If you want a challenge from A.I., use a slower vehicle. There's no excuse for a better A.I.

Well that made no sense.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

If you want a challenge from A.I., use a slower vehicle. There's no excuse for a better A.I.

Give me a break. I shouldn't have to handicap myself to make the game challenging.

 

[Samus]

It doesn't even work anyway, you can't actually race AI even if you lower your car. You just end up getting passed/losing ground on the straight because they have more power then you nail them in the corners as they crawl around.