Boston Bombing, Boston Marathon April 15th

[Slash]

Some opinions on what the punishment should be for the bomber are medieval. These are coming from people who don't even have a personal connection to the victims.

But at the same time you have to understand what outrage some of these people are in, even if they don't have personal ties. These people are against what he has done and frankly really pissed off. Personally I think that if he had the balls to commit such an act then he should be able to understand the cruel punishment that comes with it. I would love to see him, as bad as this sounds, tortured, for what he's done. Why someone would want to cause so much bodily harm to others to me is unfathomable.

Maybe they should go back to public execution so people can see the repercussions for their actions and actually scare people straight again.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

But at the same time you have to understand what outrage some of these people are in, even if they don't have personal ties. These people are against what he has done and frankly really pissed off.

People in a deep emotional state have no place in deciding what the bombers punishment should be.

Personally I think that if he had the balls to commit such an act then he should be able to understand the cruel punishment that comes with it. I would love to see him, as bad as this sounds, tortured, for what he's done. Why someone would want to cause so much bodily harm to others to me is unfathomable.

Look at the world. Look at places where criminals are treated like animals. Now look at the crime rates.

Maybe they should go back to public execution so people can see the repercussions for their actions and actually scare people straight again.

As I hinted at above, that doesn't work. What does work is doing the complete opposite.

 

[GTsail]

Quoted from the Criminal Complaint charging Tsarnaev with use of a Weapon of Mass Destruction as filed by the FBI:

"13. At appoximately 2:45pm, Bomber Two can be seen detaching himself from the crowd and walking east on Boylston Street toward the Marathon finishing line. He appears to have the thumb of his right hand hooked under the strap of his knapsack and a cell phone in his left hand. Approximately 15 seconds later, he can be seen stopping directly in front of the Forum Restaurant and standing near the metal barrier among numerous spectators, with his back to the camera, facing the runners. He then can be seen apparently slipping his knapsack onto the ground. A photograph taken from the opposite side of the street shows the knapsack on the ground at the Bomber Two's feet. (my note: "Bomber Two" is Dzhokhar Tsarnaev)

14. The Forum Restaurant video shows that Bomber Two remained in the same spot for approximately four minutes, occasionally looking at his cell phone and once appearing to take a picture with it. At some point he appears to look at his phone, which is held at approximately waist level, and may be manipulating the phone. Appoximately 30 seconds before the first explosion, he lifts his phone to his ear as if he is speaking on his cell phone, and keeps it there for approximately 18 seconds. A few seconds after he finishes the call, the large crowd of people around him can be seen reacting to the first explosion. Virtually every head turns to the east (towards the finish line) and stares in that direction in apparent bewilderment and alarm. He glances to the east and then calmly but rapidly begins moving to the west, away from the direction of the finish line. He walks away without his knapsack, having left it on the ground where he had been standing. Approximately 10 seconds later, an explosion occurs in the location where Bomber Two placed his knapsack.

15. I have observed video and photographic footage of the location where the second explosion occured from a number of different viewpoints and angles, including from directly across the street. I can discern nothing in that location in the period before the explosion that might have caused that explosion, other than Bomber Two's knapsack."

I will see if I can post a link to the entire Criminal Complaint:

Criminal Complaint, 11 pages


GTsail

 

[Joel]

If you hang, draw, and quarter this guy at high noon in town square, all you do is turn him into a martyr. As Marina said, the "scaring people straight" bit just isn't realistic. A focus on rehabilitation of criminals is what lowers crime rates over the long term.

 

[dylansan]

But at the same time you have to understand what outrage some of these people are in, even if they don't have personal ties. These people are against what he has done and frankly really pissed off. Personally I think that if he had the balls to commit such an act then he should be able to understand the cruel punishment that comes with it. I would love to see him, as bad as this sounds, tortured, for what he's done. Why someone would want to cause so much bodily harm to others to me is unfathomable.

Maybe they should go back to public execution so people can see the repercussions for their actions and actually scare people straight again.

Let me ask you something. Do you think he was born a killer? If not, what do you think caused him to do these things?

 

[sumbrownkid]

Well he is young, and could be very impressionable. Perhaps his brother brought him into the dark side?

As for the law that he would be tried under is very broad indeed. If a weapon of mass destruction can be as simple as a cooker bomb, then wouldn't an assault rifle fall under same definition? I'm kinda going with Kofi Annan on this one.

 

[Johnnypenso]

So a handgrenade is a Weapon Of Mass Destruction according to US laws?

Why not? Throw it into a crowd and you could kill a dozen people.

If you hang, draw, and quarter this guy at high noon in town square, all you do is turn him into a martyr. As Marina said, the "scaring people straight" bit just isn't realistic. A focus on rehabilitation of criminals is what lowers crime rates over the long term.

So does hanging them so they can't reoffend. I believe studies have shown capital punishment to not be a deterrent to murder. Doesn't mean it can't serve as a mean of justice.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

So does hanging them so they can't reoffend. I believe studies have shown capital punishment to not be a deterrent to murder. Doesn't mean it can't serve as a mean of justice.

So you'd support the death penalty even if it did (and does) result in a higher crime rate overall? Makes sense

 

[Zenith]

Emotions and justice don't mix. See MD's post for more.

 

[niky]

When people ask for justice, often what they really want is revenge.

But they wouldn't have control over it after it was invaded. The terrorists would.

When has American ever had any control over any country in which regime change was assisted by the CIA? Such arrangements, are often merely arrangements of convenience, and no long-lasting loyalties develop.

So a handgrenade is a Weapon Of Mass Destruction according to US laws?

The terminology may be unusual, but the idea is that a WMD is something that can cause multiple deaths and injuries per use. As opposed to a rifle (which is listed as an exception here), which typically kills only one person at a time, and is covered under its own specific laws.

Nobody ever said how much "mass destruction" qualifies as "mass destruction". Perhaps they should change this to reflect "weapons of terror"" instead.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I hope he gets put to death. Guess he is facing the death penalty. If they sentence him to death I want that publicly shown on TV. I want to watch it. Scumbag deserves to be humiliated that way.

How about you wait until he is proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt in a court of law before you start demanding various sentences?

In the meantime, easy off on the rhetoric. Demanding that someone's death be the most humiliating experience of their life is utterly disgusting. Prisoners have rights, regardless of their crimes. To intentionally deprive them of those rights for the sake of your own satisfaction is sadistic.

 

[McLaren]

I hope he gets put to death. Guess he is facing the death penalty. If they sentence him to death I want that publicly shown on TV. I want to watch it. Scumbag deserves to be humiliated that way.

Hasn't happened since the 30's & won't ever happen again. The last one that occurred caused an uncontrollable flurry of reporters from all over the US & was done in an extremely unprofessional manner.

That's all it took to ban public executions in the US and in this day & age with the current media, it would only result again, except with people watching from all over the world. I don't think even the countries that still do public executions go as far as to video them for the entire nation; it's really sick to think of our own society to even find such glee in proposing, "Hey, everyone in the world! Stop what you're doing so you can watch this kid die by lethal injection! Then we can celebrate afterwards in the streets".

The only people who will most likely get to see the execution are a select number of media & the families of the victims as they did with McVeigh.

I would love to see him, as bad as this sounds, tortured, for what he's done. Why someone would want to cause so much bodily harm to others to me is unfathomable.

There's too much irony in this statement.

So you can't comprehend why someone would do so much harm to others, yet you want that to happen someone else?

 

[Motorcycle54]

The only people who will most likely get to see the execution are a select number of media & the families of the victims as they did with McVeigh.

I'm pretty sure they offered certain surviving family members of 9/11 the chance to see photos of Bin Ladens corpse as well.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Why not? Throw it into a crowd and you could kill a dozen people.

That would be horrible, but still not a WMD in my book.
No one ever said that a suicide bomber used a WMD.

The terminology may be unusual, but the idea is that a WMD is something that can cause multiple deaths and injuries per use. As opposed to a rifle (which is listed as an exception here), which typically kills only one person at a time, and is covered under its own specific laws.

Nobody ever said how much "mass destruction" qualifies as "mass destruction". Perhaps they should change this to reflect "weapons of terror"" instead.

In every German description I found, a WMD is described as a weapon which can cause great damage to several people or structures at once, I would never connect that to a normal grenade.

I know where you're coming from, but like I mentioned, that would make the whole term obsolete.

 

[Johnnypenso]

So you'd support the death penalty even if it did (and does) result in a higher crime rate overall? Makes sense

Does it result in a higher crime rate? Do you have some stats to back that up? I believe in capital punishment as justice first and foremost, if it helps to deter murderers then it's even better, but it's not a prerequisite for me.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

Does it result in a higher crime rate? Do you have some stats to back that up? I believe in capital punishment as justice first and foremost, if it helps to deter murderers then it's even better, but it's not a prerequisite for me.

States still using the death penalty have higher murder rates than states that have dropped the death penalty.

More here, with linked sources.

So, again, do you support the death penalty even though it does the opposite of what it is supposed to?
Are you going to let 'justice' (seems more like revenge to me) cost people their lives?

 

[Zenith]

That's a pretty simple case of causation =/= correlation, but it's pretty much accepted that the death penalty does not "scare straight".

 

[Caz]

Update on Jeff Bauman.
He is wheeling himselfmaround the hospital. Kids a trooper!

 

[niky]

I would never connect that to a normal grenade.

While I wouldn't, either, a grenade is perfectly capable of killing several people at once.

The term is too nebulous, I agree, and should be replaced by something more proper.

 

[McLaren]

I'm pretty sure they offered certain surviving family members of 9/11 the chance to see photos of Bin Ladens corpse as well.

Not the same thing. Bin Laden's death was not a court-sentenced execution & put on closed-circuit TV for the 9/11 families & media to witness.

McVeigh's was.

 

[Johnnypenso]

States still using the death penalty have higher murder rates than states that have dropped the death penalty.

More here, with linked sources.

So, again, do you support the death penalty even though it does the opposite of what it is supposed to?
Are you going to let 'justice' (seems more like revenge to me) cost people their lives?

There is no cause and effect relationship established there. Isn't it possible the States with the death penalty always had a higher murder rate and that's what drove them to institute or retain the death penalty?

My response is the same. I think the death penalty is appropriate justice in many cases. You can call it revenge if you like, that word carries no negative connotation to me. Child molestors, planned murders, mulitple murderers, cops, serial rapists..etc..I have no problem with their execution. Being a deterrent is a bonus for me, not a prerequisite.

Interesting to note though that since 1997 the graphs are moving much closer together and the rate of decline in states with the death penalty is actually higher. And in the last few years there has been a significant drop in death penalty states while the non-death penalty states have had a slight uptick. In fact, if the recent trend continues, the two graphs will crossover soon. Perhaps it has been a deterrent the last 15 years after all.

 

[Liquid]

Whether there is a correlation or causality between capital punishment and crime rates or not, I do not believe in it. I find it immoral, arrogant and hypocritical to punish the act of taking a life by doing the exact same thing; taking a life. The "eye for an eye" argument seems petty to me, and driven more by a demonstration of absolute power and judgement, and a quest for revenge more than justice.

In the case of these Boston bombings, a full and complete inquiry must be undertaken. Find out who else was involved, what their motives were, why they have done it and whether there are any greater plans afoot. This would require the suspect to remain alive. A quick and swift lynch mob won't solve anything.

 

[Motorcycle54]

Not the same thing. Bin Laden's death was not a court-sentenced execution & put on closed-circuit TV for the 9/11 families & media to witness.
McVeigh's was.

Theres a thousand things that make them different, so what? Both cases are examples of terror survivors being offered the option of seeing the responsible parties 'ended'. In Bin Ladens case it was the closest approximation; a photo of the top of his head blown off.

 

[Caz]

44 images that capture the good in people. Boston and texas

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/images-that-perfectly-capture-the-american-spirit?s=mobile

 

[Johnnypenso]

Whether there is a correlation or causality between capital punishment and crime rates or not, I do not believe in it. I find it immoral, arrogant and hypocritical to punish the act of taking a life by doing the exact same thing; taking a life. The "eye for an eye" argument seems petty to me, and driven more by a demonstration of absolute power and judgement, and a quest for revenge more than justice.

In the case of these Boston bombings, a full and complete inquiry must be undertaken. Find out who else was involved, what their motives were, why they have done it and whether there are any greater plans afoot. This would require the suspect to remain alive. A quick and swift lynch mob won't solve anything.

Of course a complete inquiry must be undertaken in Boston, we need to know what prompted these guys to go from peaceful American citizens into Muslim terrorists, bent on killing Americans who had done them no harm. After we figure all that out, then we can lynch him and any of their accomplices.

 

[Liquid]

Of course a complete inquiry must be undertaken in Boston, we need to know what prompted these guys to go from peaceful American citizens into Muslim terrorists, bent on killing Americans who had done them no harm. After we figure all that out, then we can lynch him and any of their accomplices.

Conveniently sidestepping the rest of my post, do you not think capital punishment is a demonstration of absolute power and judgement, hypocritical given the nature of the crimes it punishes, more than it is a deterrent?

 

[Caz]

MIT officer Sean Colliers ride home.
Route 62 wilmington ma


May you forever rest in piece old.friend.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7UxWoUeC8k&feature=youtube_gdata_player



Tribute.to Lingzi Lu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2qhUuwVtWs&feature=youtube_gdata_player


Forever an angel
Godspeed little man.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OrvuDWpjws&feature=youtube_gdata_player


Krystle Campbell
May you never be forgotten

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmrZmhsIizw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

To all the victims, stay.strong, stay positibe. Send the message WE WILL NOT BE TERRORIZED
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nm271Csktu4&feature=youtube_gdata_player



Red Sox Tribute to the victims.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofNvRt8XAiU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[Slash]

Don't know if you guys will be able to see it but...

tps://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152799038225235

 

[Caz]

Cannot.

But there is a facebook page for Jeff setup.

Jess Bauman--Boston Strong, True Patriot and Hero

 

[Slash]

Its a video of police illegally invading those homes during the manhunt.