Brake fade

[shirakawaa]

Brake pads and fluid that don't easily cause fading with racetrack usage need to be brought to a certain operating temperature, otherwise they can easily perform worse than stock. Fading through over-usage is only one aspect of brake management.

 

[Griffith500]

...

@Griffith500, how do you see that nothing has changed? With the involvement of KW and Yokohama and with the new aerodynamic algorithm alone much had changed. Posted video and statements clear showing and stating things have changed. Maybe you'll have a changed of heart when you're unable to abate in time.

Just noticed this edit. I'm not arguing that nothing's changed in the whole game. We're talking specifically about brake fade, and the only reason we're talking about it is because there are brake "upgrades" in PD's screenshots of GT6's menus. We're all only speculating as to why we'd need such upgrades, when in previous games they didn't actually do very much (if anything).

I'd love for PD to simulate brake temperatures, cooling rates etc. (which may be helped with any aero stuff they're doing), but there's simply no evidence of that yet. Hence my cautious outlook.

 

[MX5Racer69]

In my real world race car, I never get brake fade. Never. This is because I choose a pad that operates best within the temperature range that is optimal for my car. Brake fade happens when you are using the wrong brakes for the type of racing that you are doing.

I guess I would be in support of a model for street cars that would emulate brake fade on stock pads, but then it would be one of the first items that I would upgrade. So why should PD program something that every online racer would just upgrade anyway? Even for endurance racing, teams pick pads for the application. With the quality of racing brakes today, race drivers around the world are not fighting brake fade unless there is a problem with their equipment. People are asking for something that is useless, in my opinion.

Very well put.

 

[SavageEvil]

Interesting thread, brake fade would go nicely with endurance races but how would PD approach it? Do they simulate heating of fluid or do they just put an artificial limit and go with heating up of pads and then eventual loss of maximum efficiency. Better brake pads will increase the upper limit of pad and disc efficiency. Also adding bigger brakes kits and racing brake kits also require a certain amount of break in before they reach optimum braking capability. Hopefully they do something that works well along with tire simulation which I hope includes realistic warming methods.
Time will tell but even without it, hopefully the driving/racing dynamics is increased to a better level.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Interesting thread, brake fade would go nicely with endurance races but how would PD approach it? Do they simulate heating of fluid or do they just put an artificial limit and go with heating up of pads and then eventual loss of maximum efficiency. Better brake pads will increase the upper limit of pad and disc efficiency. Also adding bigger brakes kits and racing brake kits also require a certain amount of break in before they reach optimum braking capability. Hopefully they do something that works well along with tire simulation which I hope includes realistic warming methods.
Time will tell but even without it, hopefully the driving/racing dynamics is increased to a better level.

If it's done, I'm guessing it'll be on stock pads only and it'll be a simple linear regression, much like tire wear. Forcing you to upgrade to racing brakes means you spend more credits which means you play more and/or utilize more microtransactions to pad your credit count.

 

[SavageEvil]

If it's done, I'm guessing it'll be on stock pads only and it'll be a simple linear regression, much like tire wear. Forcing you to upgrade to racing brakes means you spend more credits which means you play more and/or utilize more microtransactions to pad your credit count.

OMG I forgot about that microtransactions crap that Sony obviously forced PD to add to the game. If this in anyway make GT6 harder than GT5 to make money then I am out. Forza 5 was forced to include this trash and it's worse than the optional Forza 4 one. So wrong on so many levels, disgusting corporate greed.

 

[Zuel]

With the new aerodynamic algorithm, KW suspension algorithm and Yokohama algorithm @azn_racer there will be a invasive on mechanical more than aerodynamic grip.

 

[Wolfe]

I'm just saying blanket statements like these "Locking up the wheels is a sign you already have more than enough braking strength" are not true at all. You could lock brakes up at 15mph but that doesn't mean you cannot brake any harder, all you need to do is apply less braking force next time and you won't lock the brakes. So when you're at high speed instead of having **** brakes because you've locked them up previously and didn't decide to go for the big brake kit you could be still be braking at 0.4G while the guy behind you who decided to go for the big brakes could now decelerate at 0.8g and come up the inside of you into the right hander and receives the chequered flag before you.

It's not my fault you extrapolated my point to cover a wide range of velocities, taking it to imply locking the brakes at a paltry 15mph shows you don't need better brakes to slow down any more effectively from 200mph. What a ridiculous explosion of a straightforward idea.

If you're looking for a blanket statement, "brake upgrades improve stopping power" is one. Forgive me for pointing out the role tires play in improving stopping distances on modern cars with already-effective disc brake systems...at racing speeds. If you're already overwhelming the tires on corner entry with a stock braking system, an upgraded braking system won't stop harder without also upgrading the tires. To say that's "not true at all" is, how you say, not true at all.

 

[lazywolfe]

What I don't understand is why so many people on this forum are asking for PD to program something inferior. You only get brake fade if you use the wrong brakes for the application.

It's part of the RPG aspect, to me anyway. Gradual improvements to the car, more things to do with money, more immersion, etc.

 

[azn_racer]

With the new aerodynamic algorithm, KW suspension algorithm and Yokohama algorithm @azn_racer there will be a invasive on mechanical more than aerodynamic grip.

Oh I thought you were talking about real life for a sec lol.

It's not my fault you extrapolated my point to cover a wide range of velocities, taking it to imply locking the brakes at a paltry 15mph shows you don't need better brakes to slow down any more effectively from 200mph. What a ridiculous explosion of a straightforward idea.

If you're looking for a blanket statement, "brake upgrades improve stopping power" is one. Forgive me for pointing out the role tires play in improving stopping distances on modern cars with already-effective disc brake systems...at racing speeds. If you're already overwhelming the tires on corner entry with a stock braking system, an upgraded braking system won't stop harder without also upgrading the tires. To say that's "not true at all" is, how you say, not true at all.

But corner entry implies start of turning, while you could have been starting to brake ages ago. You could be at half your max velocity already while still holding maximum braking force instead of trailing off like all good drivers. Still doesn't mean you can't brake any harder.

If you're not gonna explicitly state what you mean it's not other peoples fault for misinterpreting your statements.

 

[Wolfe]

But corner entry implies start of turning, while you could have been starting to brake ages ago.

Anyone I know defines corner entry as when you begin braking, or whatever you need to do in preparation for negotiating a corner. The straight is coming to an end; time to slow down (if needed). The "start of turning" is called turn-in.

I don't understand your use of terms -- I have no clue what you're trying to say in the rest of your post -- and I don't often have to explain myself so explicitly. Maybe it's a linguistic thing, seeing as we're continents apart. I don't think I'm familiar with how racecraft is described in Australia.

 

[Mubble]

Edited...

Since they are re introducing brake upgrades it is very probable that there will be brake fade.

They won't.