Brexit - The UK leaves the EU

Deal or No Deal?

  • Voted Leave - May's Deal

  • Voted Leave - No Deal

  • Voted Leave - Second Referendum

  • Did not vote/abstained - May's Deal

  • Did not vote/abstained - No Deal

  • Did not vote/abstained - Second Referendum

  • Voted Remain - May's Deal

  • Voted Remain - No Deal

  • Voted Remain - Second Referendum


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In the early hours of Wednesday morning, Theresa May made a momentous choice. After a day of acrimonious debate in her cabinet and inner circle, the prime minister decided that she was willing to take Britain out of the EU without a deal.

At Thursday’s European Council meeting in Brussels, EU diplomats wondered whether Mrs May was bluffing, but those close to the prime minister said if she cannot secure her Brexit deal she is determined the UK should embark on a no-deal exit.

Since announcing on Wednesday that she would ask EU leaders for a short extension to the bloc’s Article 50 process — to delay Brexit from March 29 to June 30 — people who have spoken to the prime minister said she is reconciled to the implications of what happens if the UK parliament continues to reject her withdrawal agreement.

“The mood has hardened on no deal,” said one person close to the prime minister. One Eurosceptic Conservative MP who met Mrs May on Wednesday night said: “She didn’t seem concerned about leaving with no deal.”

The prime minister refused to rule out a no-deal Brexit as she arrived in Brussels, and in her preferred scenario this could happen on June 30.

Conservative MP
It is a massive disaster, staggering incompetence. We are heading for no deal, which would be the first time a developed economy has essentially placed sanctions on itself


But French president Emmanuel Macronsaid that if the British parliament fails to approve Mrs May’s Brexit deal in a vote earmarked for next week, the UK would be heading for a no-deal exit on March 29. EU leaders were on Thursday discussing an Article 50 extension, conditional on MPs approving Mrs May’s withdrawal agreement.

There is, of course, a big question over whether Mrs May would ever be allowed to let the UK crash out of the EU in the face of massive political and business opposition.

If she loses what would be the third so-called meaningful vote by MPs on her deal next week, she would be under intense pressure to resign.

Senior Europhile Conservative MPs speculated they could ultimately join with Labour to bring down the government in a vote of no confidence and force a general election, rather than allow Mrs May to — in their view — crash the economy.

The House of Commons voted this month by 413 to 202 against the UK leaving the EU without an agreement. If Mrs May refused to heed this non-binding vote, MPs could try to seize control of the parliamentary agenda to change the law to stop a no-deal exit.

“It is a massive disaster, staggering incompetence,” said one influential Conservative MP. “She is trying to keep the party together in an extraordinarily stupid way. We are heading for no deal, which would be the first time a developed economy has essentially placed sanctions on itself.”

Under the prime minister’s scenario planning, MPs have until April 11 to agree an exit deal: that is the legal cut-off date when Britain would have to legislate to take part in May’s European Parliament elections. Mrs May is adamant Britain should not take part in those elections.


If the Commons had not signed off her withdrawal agreement by April 11, the prime minister would step up preparations for a no-deal exit, working with the EU to try to mitigate the inevitable economic shock. Chancellor Philip Hammond has put aside £26bn in an “insurance fund” to cushion the immediate impact of the UK crashing out of the EU.

In deciding she is willing to take the UK out of the EU without a deal, Mrs May has sided with Eurosceptic members of her cabinet and the pro-Brexit European Research Group of Tory MPs, who are sanguine or even enthusiastic about a “clean break” with the bloc.

“She seemed pretty down and low,” said one Conservative MP who met the prime minister on Wednesday night, shortly before she used a televised address to accuse parliament of letting down the country by not approving her deal.

The prime minister’s stance on a no-deal exit has filtered out of her inner circle and caused alarm at senior levels of the government. “The prime minister has caved into pressure from the ERG, at huge risk to the integrity and economic prosperity of the UK,” said one minister.

The fact Mrs May’s decision was taken in the early hours of Wednesday without formal cabinet approval has fuelled concerns in the Treasury about Mrs May’s judgment. Foreign secretary Jeremy Hunt on Thursday spoke of the “extraordinary pressure” on the prime minister.

Mrs May’s allies said she will work with the EU to ensure the UK does not crash out of the bloc on March 29 but that she is serious when she insists she will not consider delaying Brexit beyond June 30.

Martin Wolf: Theresa May is taking a hideous Brexit gamble
“We are nearly three years on from the original vote,” said the prime minister on Thursday. “It is now the time for parliament to decide. A short extension [to Article 50] gives us that opportunity to decide to leave the European Union, to deliver on the result of that referendum and I sincerely hope that will be with a negotiated deal.”

In Brussels, EU officials agreed with Mrs May that the “point of no return” will be in mid-April, but there are diverging views in European capitals about what she would do if she has not secured her Brexit deal by that point.

One senior EU negotiator predicted Mrs May, at this juncture, would indeed put “party over country” and take Britain out of the bloc without an agreement. “No deal keeps her in power,” said the official.

Other EU negotiators think the opposite, with one saying Mrs May had “too much integrity” to accept a no-deal exit. “You have to destroy the country to do this,” said the official, predicting Mrs May would delay Brexit for more than a year before resigning. “She will not lead the country into the abyss.”

Additional reporting by Sebastian Payne in London and Michael Peel in Brussels

You can read a number of articles for free on the FT... if I’m envious of @Touring Mars for anything, it’s his free subscription to the FT!


Edit:
In regards to the article, it’s both reassuring and terrifying how utter lost the current government and shadow government are. That article paints May as someone who’s given up and just wants the pain to go away..

The unfortunate issue being her in suicide she takes the country with her...
 
Hearing that the bloc is looking at offering a short extension that until May 7th
Yes, with a deadline of April 11th (three weeks today) to decide whether or not the UK will take part in EU elections...

If the UK decides does not take part in EU elections (which is current Government policy), it will not be legally possible for the UK to stay inside the EU after the April 11th deadline passes - it would therefore put a time limit on revoking Article 50 as well, and means that the UK will certainly leave without a deal unless the deal is agreed or Article 50 is withdrawn within three weeks.

-

Since three weeks is not long enough to hold a referendum or install a new government, the EU (and Theresa May) appear to be conspiring to essentially force their deal on Labour and Tory Eurosceptics.

To paraphrase Bob Dylan, it might well be that May 'wins the war, after losing every battle'...
 
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Whatever the outcome of this political clusterpoking of the behinds, and understanding that this is handled just about as awful as it possibly can, and what it could lead to for the most of us in the near future,

I am enjoying this to the fullest. It shows how inept politicians are. An entire government is overshadowing the terrible shenanigans of a bad orange man 6000km to the left.
 
Whatever the outcome of this political clusterpoking of the behinds, and understanding that this is handled just about as awful as it possibly can, and what it could lead to for the most of us in the near future,

I am enjoying this to the fullest. It shows how inept politicians are. An entire government is overshadowing the terrible shenanigans of a bad orange man 6000km to the left.

I'm quite curious about how this is being viewed by other EU states. In the Netherlands do people think we should honour the result and leave, or do they think we're making a mistake in doing so? Or they do just not really care either way?
 
Yes - but that doesn't negate the point that the decision to leave the EU was/is legally binding and that currently, under UK law, we leave the EU next Friday. Revoking Article 50 also cannot be legally revoked by just anybody - Parliament, for example, can't just click it's fingers and make it so. It would require a second referendum, and a second referendum requires a Parliamentary majority and a Government/PM willing to start the process. It's not going to happen before next Friday - and likely will not be possible before May 22nd either.

I was under the impression it just requires notification from HM government that they are revoking article 50. Chances of that happening are ridiculously small granted, but if motions come around next week as a result of tonight's discussions and progression of the petition, then it could be revoked by a vote in parliament.
Julian Smith is reportedly not happy with last nights speech, without his power in the commons next week a vote laid out above could well make it through.
 
In the Netherlands do people think we should honour the result and leave, or do they think we're making a mistake in doing so? Or they do just not really care either way?

I know this wasn't directed at me, but In my experience it's not really viewed any differently than it is over here. People who anti-EU, anti-immigration etc. etc. think we are doing the right thing, those that aren't, don't.
 
I'm quite curious about how this is being viewed by other EU states. In the Netherlands do people think we should honour the result and leave, or do they think we're making a mistake in doing so? Or they do just not really care either way?

The sentiment is pretty much the same as in this thread.

The main complaint is that, and that is from those who can think a bit, is that this will hurt wallets left and right.

But still, the political side of the story is worth a movie or 3.
 


That website really is comical because anyone anywhere en masse can sign it, including foreign governments trying to sway the political agenda, unlike voting in the referendum which (like most REAL voting) was far more rigorously controlled. All it is is basically a toy to allow people to vent and many of these 'people' are about as real as followers on Instagram!
 
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That website really is comical because anyone anywhere en masse can sign it, including foreign governments trying to sway the political agenda, unlike voting in the referendum which (like most REAL voting) was far more rigorously controlled. All it is is basically a toy to allow people to vent and many of these 'people' are about as real as followers on Instagram!

I advise all to read the replies for some context.
 
I advise all to read the replies for some context.

So is there any unequivocal proof these 'Brits on holiday' are really Brits?... unlike turning up for a public vote where you need proof to be on the electoral roll and need to present identification to an embassy to vote when your abroad? Oh, theres a tick box to say your being honest
 
I advise all to read the replies for some context.

Who needs context when you’ve got a bloody pie chart!

D2MgJ-TWkAA3b2l
 
So is there any unequivocal proof these 'Brits on holiday' are really Brits?... unlike turning up for a public vote where you need proof to be on the electoral roll and need to present identification to a embassy to vote when your abroad?
Nope there is no proof at all but it’s certainly indicative of quite a lot of people being unhappy with the current situation and it’d be daft to pass it off as irrelevant.
 
Nope there is no proof at all but it’s certainly indicative of quite a lot of people being unhappy with the current situation and it’d be daft to pass it off as irrelevant.

If they are not really Brits it's meaningless. There are many people in other countries that are unhappy about all sorts of things in other ones but it doesn't mean they have the right to vote on it.

Who needs context when you’ve got a bloody pie chart!

D2MgJ-TWkAA3b2l

UK signatures, enforced by what exactly? A tick box?!
 
If they are not really Brits it's meaningless. There are many people in other countries that are unhappy about all sorts of things in other ones but it doesn't mean they have the right to vote on it.
The vast majority of the 1.8million are Brits.
 
So is there any unequivocal proof these 'Brits on holiday' are really Brits?... unlike turning up for a public vote where you need proof to be on the electoral roll and need to present identification to a embassy to vote when your abroad?
There's no reason why any of the 4% of non-UK-origin signatories are anything but UK citizens currently abroad. There's also no reason why any of them are. To steal a phrase, it's an known unknown - we know some might be faked, but we can't know the magnitude of how many are; maybe zero, maybe all of them.

It's always going to be a danger with these online petitions. We can't know who's actually signing them and if they have any particular legitimacy for petitioning Parliament at all. Not just people who don't live here and aren't citizens, but kids too. We do know that over 16m voted not to leave in the real thing though.


I like the amusing implication here that votes from Russia that agree with you are explained away with a handwave, but those that don't are always evil Russian troll farms trying to influence British politics...
 
At 2000 new signatures a minute and counting, it could easily hit the 100 million mark before the petition deadline.
 
There's no reason why any of the 4% of non-UK-origin signatories are anything but UK citizens currently abroad. There's also no reason why any of them are. To steal a phrase, it's an known unknown - we know some might be faked, but we can't know the magnitude of how many are; maybe zero, maybe all of them.

It's always going to be a danger with these online petitions. We can't know who's actually signing them and if they have any particular legitimacy for petitioning Parliament at all. Not just people who don't live here and aren't citizens, but kids too. We do know that over 16m voted not to leave in the real thing though.

Which is precisely why it shouldn't and won't be used in any meaningful way to change political course. The government is probably aware that its very likely this particular poll will be hijacked to some extent, more so than your average government petition.

I like the amusing implication here that votes from Russia that agree with you are explained away with a handwave, but those that don't are always evil Russian troll farms trying to influence British politics...

I agree, it's true that Remain suddenly don't have a problem when hacking/farming/bots might be going on here but jump on it when anything that might be influencing Leave is afoot... and yes it does happen on the other side to but people shouldn't be reading into any online polling with such lax controls in place to ensure they are real signatories. Maybe people should have to enter some sort of validation to sign it, lets see how many people are on it then!
 
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