Brexit - The UK leaves the EU
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The Conservative European Parliament campaign slogan was: "The only party which can get Brexit done is the Conservative party". How is their 9% not included in the pro-Brexit count?
... which may be what hurt them so much.
Officially Labour would like Brexit with a different withdrawal agreement, but a second referendum if it can't secure the changes it wants. Which means it's notionally pro-Brexit, but not quite. Corbyn himself is reportedly rather Brexity, but May originally voted for and campaigned to remain in the original referendum, so ultimately it's not really practical to put the red bar in with either camp...
... which may be what hurt them so much.
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Who voted for Brexit;
- To save the NHS
- To stop immigration
- To leave with a deal that makes us stronger
- To leave with no deal
- To make the U.K. stronger
- To destabilise Northern Ireland
The answer to all these questions issss.... you duknow. The only way you could know would be for another referendum... which would probably reverse Brexit.
This is why you shouldn’t worry about drilling into why people voted.
I mean, this is what Brexiteer’s have been doing for the last couple of years, so at this point why does it even matter?
Robin
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Well they certainly didn't vote to remain so why is remain even a thing then? And by your measure a 2nd referendum should only be questions about how we do Brexit, not overturn it.
I mean, this is what Brexiteer’s have been doing for the last couple of years, so at this point why does it even matter?
So which bit of the Yes/No question results numbers did they fudge?
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Hold up then, because this might confuse you...
You want Brexit to happen because it’ll be good and you’ve been told it’ll prevent immigrants. Yet if the deal is rejected and we no-deal Brexit, it’ll lead to higher immigration and more immigrants living and working inside the U.K.
This is the antithesis of what you wanted and thus, why have Brexit when it’ll do the opposite of what you (the voter) wanted?
That’s just one example from those I listed.
Go back and re-read that post.
Not really, because how do you know either of those two options are what people want? Like I explained above people voted to leave for all kinds of reasons (mostly to make the U.K. stronger). If we cannot make the U.K. stronger... why are we even bothering?
To say that if there was another vote and Remain wasn’t an option then you’d be preventing 52% of the public from changing its mind and ignoring the other 48%
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If only it were that simple.
The way I see it is like this: the original referendum was a simple choice between leaving the EU or remaining inside the EU, but it was not made clear enough what leaving actually would entail (i.e. that a multiplicity of options would be on the table). And, as such, after winning the referendum, the leave vote fragmented, making it virtually impossible for any one leave option to command a majority (even a majority of leave voters, let alone an absolute majority of UK voters). As such, any further referendum would always be (massively) biased in favour of a remain vote, making a second vote fundamentally unfair.
I am not totally against a second referendum but I think it should, as a starting point, respect the original majority who voted to leave the EU. As such, a fairer second referendum question would be 'Do you support the Withdrawal Agreement, yes or no?' A Yes vote would compel MPs to vote it through, a No vote would compel MPs to approve a No Deal Brexit.
edit: Note that Labour (whose position on Brexit has been as clear as mud) will now only allow any deal to pass if it is put to a public vote first - but Labour must know that there will most likely not be anything near a majority for any exit deal, and thus their position is, in effect, to Remain but without having to actually come out and say it.
No, the UK public have only voted once on the matter so far.
Robin
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It doesn't confuse me, what you've basically posted there is the age old "leavers didn't know what they voted for and are filled with contradictions" which is based on nothing more than your viewpoint on it backed up by no proof whatsoever.
Where is the proof that immigration will rise given that the governments policy is to bring (and has already brought down) net migration down irrespective of Brexit?
Where is the proof that leavers take issue with migrants who enter on a skill basis as opposed uncontrolled migration from the EU? If anything the desire for control migration has been something that the public has called for for decades, again irrespective of Brexit.
When replying to the statement,
Roo
You claimed Brexiteers have been doing that for years. Which past election results figures are you sighting exactly?
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Unfortunately, that doesn't really stand up to scrutiny either. How much of the original Leave vote was based on the expectation of undefined, favourable leave terms, which, in the end, have proven to be unrealistic? As it seems that the British parliament has been unable to agree on acceptable leave terms, the only realistic way forward would seem to be a straight up or down vote on hard Brexit, or no Brexit. I agree that this doesn't seem entirely fair either ... but at this point, which option does?
For future reference, it would seem sensible for plebiscites to require some kind of supermajority to vote any kind of sweeping change to the status quo. 💡
The referendum was;
Do you want to leave the EU;
Yes
No
Where does that allow for nuance in anyone’s point of view? It’s not a riddle.
Proof of something that might happen? ...I mean... anyway;
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...rses-home-secretary-sajid-javid-a8397921.html
You’ve already had to qualify the statement, before you made it (just think about that).
Part of the Leave.EU campaign was based solely on immigration. Remember how THE ENTIRE population of Turkey was going to immigrate to the U.K. based on the false assumption that Turkey was on the brink of joining the EU?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/21/vote-leave-prejudice-turkey-eu-security-threat
Edit;
Given that your all in on the Brexit hype train and you’re a stickler for ‘proof’... where is the proof the U.K. will be better off with May’s deal or with no-deal Brexit?
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It doesn't really matter... the initial vote did not stipulate anything about how we should leave, only that we should leave.
The debate about how to leave came after... the EU itself will not even allow something as fundamental as talks about trade to occur until after a member state has already left, thus it was never going to be possible to truly define the 'Leave' position until long after any decision to leave had already been taken. And, despite three years of almost incessant debate on the subject, the fact is that there is still no clear cut definition of what 'leave' actually means, despite attempts on all sides to frame the debate in terms that are favourable to themselves.
I've always maintained that the entire Brexit process has been like putting the cart before the horse - how can we be expected to sign up to a Withdrawal Agreement that could permanently bind the UK's hands before trade talks are even allowed to commence? It's stupid and it was always likely to result in total failure -and it has. The consequences for both sides could be severe. The first consequence is that the UK will now probably leave the EU without a deal, and attempt to complete the process of extricating itself from the EU in a way that is ultimately more likely to produce a result that is acceptable to the UK, as opposed to what has been offered thus far which is not acceptable.
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True - but, presumably, for a significant number of people the how would have influenced their decision on what way to vote.
Agreed. The Brexit referendum broke with British parliamentary tradition ... & the reason for that seems to have been largely a political (mis)calculation. The two major parties put themselves in an impossible situation. We almost had a very similar situation in Canada with the last Quebec referendum. People voted without any clear idea of what exactly "separation" would entail. In the end, "money & the ethnic vote" proved decisive (according to Jacques Parizeau).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Quebec_referendum#Immediate_responses
It's interesting that, apparently, key players on the separatist side believed that a separation vote would result in a more autonomous Quebec that was still part of Canada. I suppose that that kind of option has remained a desired outcome for factions in both the Conservative & Labour parties with regard to the EU, but without the ability to realize it ... I suspect the same thing would have happened in Canada had the separatists won a narrow majority.
UKMikey
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The linked interview seems remarkably policy free. What kind of policies would an elected Brexit Party govern on? It sounds to me like they'd be even more of a single issue party than the Greens. Bearing in mind that it doesn't have members, only supporters and that Farage has complete policy control, perhaps comparisons with an autocracy aren't completely farfetched.
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- TexRex72
What's with the fixation on what others "like"? Surely one should focus instead on what's actually said.
(While this response was prompted by one particular incident, it's aimed at anyone who reads into others' decision to "like"--or not--a post for whatever reason.)
(While this response was prompted by one particular incident, it's aimed at anyone who reads into others' decision to "like"--or not--a post for whatever reason.)
It’s not all bad, Farage and his cronies will make Britain great again!
https://thebrexitparty.com/
...ohh
UKMikey
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Is it okay if I ignore the crap stirring bait posts and concentrate on reported facts?
We all wanted to know the result on Saturday but it wasn't revealed until Sunday evening, by law, hence (I suspect) the request for verification. What I "like" doesn't matter unless we're punishing thoughtcrime now.
Simply ignoring the issue of the Irish border agreement would be disastrous and could herald a return to the open warfare of the seventies and eighties. What sane politician would want to "deal with" that?
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2...-sees-friend-nigel-farage-running-british-pm/
Thanks for the "manifesto" link btw, I was looking everywhere for a list of the BP's policies to no avail.
We all wanted to know the result on Saturday but it wasn't revealed until Sunday evening, by law, hence (I suspect) the request for verification. What I "like" doesn't matter unless we're punishing thoughtcrime now.
Simply ignoring the issue of the Irish border agreement would be disastrous and could herald a return to the open warfare of the seventies and eighties. What sane politician would want to "deal with" that?
Funny you should say that...
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2...-sees-friend-nigel-farage-running-british-pm/
Thanks for the "manifesto" link btw, I was looking everywhere for a list of the BP's policies to no avail.
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The post he "liked" didn't imply anything of the sort. It asked for a source because the user, @TenEightyOne, thought exit polls weren't legally allowed to be published until Sunday.
And he's right, they weren't - so whatever you posted on Friday could not have been an exit poll, as you stated it was. But you never provided a source for it either.
The reason exit polls weren't allowed until Sunday is because, while the UK voted on Thursday, much of Europe did not vote until Sunday and publishing UK exit polls may have influenced votes in other countries.
Some positive news from the Brexit Party supporters!
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ds-birmingham-acceptance-speech-a8932831.html
Oh
Oh...
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ds-birmingham-acceptance-speech-a8932831.html
Oh
Oh...
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You claimed it was an exit poll at a time where publishing exit polls was illegal. As with all such claims, the onus is on you to prove it and not anyone else to do it for you.
Please provide a link to the exit poll from Friday.
(incidentally, I know exactly where that number has come from, and I also know it's not an exit poll - but I also know which sites, wrongly, say it is)
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