Brexit - The UK leaves the EU

Deal or No Deal?

  • Voted Leave - May's Deal

  • Voted Leave - No Deal

  • Voted Leave - Second Referendum

  • Did not vote/abstained - May's Deal

  • Did not vote/abstained - No Deal

  • Did not vote/abstained - Second Referendum

  • Voted Remain - May's Deal

  • Voted Remain - No Deal

  • Voted Remain - Second Referendum

Results are only viewable after voting.
Labour's deputy leader, Tom Watson, has made a statement which unequivocally supports staying in the EU - which is firmly at odds with Labour's official policy on Brexit. This will be seen as (and is) a direct challenge to Jeremy Corbyn's leadership, and will probably force Corbyn to either drop his support for Brexit or to sack his deputy leader and anyone else who thinks that Labour are making a big mistake by not making their position on Brexit clearer. At this juncture, Labour have very little to lose (and a lot to gain) from dropping their mealy-mouthed approach to supporting Brexit while rejecting any and all forms of 'Tory Brexit'; I reckon Watson is correct to surmise that Labour can only regain the upper hand (and have any chance of winning a General Election) if they steal the Lib Dems thunder and adopt a policy of immediate revocation of Article 50. But - it's very likely too little too late, and Labour will probably continue to be in the bizarre position of supporting Brexit while scuppering it at every turn, meaning that the likely outcome is something that either they completely don't want (a No Deal Brexit) or that nobody in the entire country actually wants (a Soft Brexit).
 
Touring Mars
t's very likely too little too late, and Labour will probably continue to be in the bizarre position of supporting Brexit while scuppering it at every turn, meaning that the likely outcome is something that either they completely don't want (a No Deal Brexit) or that nobody in the entire country actually wants (a Soft Brexit).
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Or just support both Brexit and no-Brexit leading to more confusion and continue the haemorrhaging of votes
 
baldgye
Or just support both Brexit and no-Brexit leading to more confusion and continue the haemorrhaging of votes
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Corbyn's support amongst the unionist and grass roots hard left (Americans have little idea what that can be like in mainstream politics) is so strong that Watson has no chance of deposing him. Which is a shame, because that's what needs to happen for the good of the country, the good of the House and the good of Comrade Corbyn hisself.
 
TenEightyOne
Corbyn's support amongst the unionist and grass roots hard left (Americans have little idea what that can be like in mainstream politics) is so strong that Watson has no chance of deposing him. Which is a shame, because that's what needs to happen for the good of the country, the good of the House and the good of Comrade Corbyn hisself.
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I think, anyone with enough of an actual opinion and political nous could get the support of the grass roots Labour members... I don't think anyone actually seriously thinks Corbyn can win an election, problem is they haven't really been able to find a leader who can garner anything like the support Corbyn has.
 
HenrySwanson
In news that won't shock many the by-election in Peterborough is being investigated for fraud (there are 5 allegations at least):

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-of-irregularities-at-peterborough-byelection

Tariq Mahmood who was convicted and sentenced for rigging postal votes along with others and who called Sajid Jaavid a "coconut" is implicated:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...ubt-over-labour-win-in-peterborough-bcpmdm8zj
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Yeah it's not surprising, the sheer amount of postal votes made it extremely suspicious as did the outcome as Peterborough voted 60.9% to leave in the referendum and Labour has been mostly leaning the other way. In other news the man that threw a milkshake on Farage has been found guilty of assault and criminal damage so if people find illegality funny it speaks volumes. They should give Jo Brand a community order whilst they're at it.
 
UKMikey
Nigel Farage has said he would, “don khaki, pick up a rifle and head for the front lines” if Theresa May fails to deliver Brexit in the fashion he wants
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Ah, but that was a joke he liked.

Robin
In other news the man that threw a milkshake on Farage has been found guilty of assault and criminal damage so if people find illegality funny it speaks volumes.
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He committed the offences as per the definition of them, so they would be accurate charges with an accurate verdict.

And good for him, hurling foodstuffs at bent politicians (and any other figure of public fun) is part of the very same British culture that Farridge presumably stands for. And a Europe-wide one, perhaps that's where his patience ends.
 
Brexit was campaigning on illegally.
The extreme left throw milkshakes, the extreme right murder.

But who’s the real victim? And why can’t we all just be nice to each other?
 
baldgye
Brexit was campaigning on illegally.
The extreme left throw milkshakes, the extreme right murder.

But who’s the real victim? And why can’t we all just be nice to each other?
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You can't be nice to each other when you are competing against each other. Nice guys finish last.
But if you dither around long enough, your Brexit problem will be solved, since they won't be any EU left for you to rejoin or break away from.
 
Anyone who may be tempted into believing that Boris Johnson represents a smart way forward for the UK would do well to examine some of his comments in last night's televised party leadership 'debate', which should set some alarm bells ringing, even among his more staunch supporters.

When asked about how to address the Irish border issue, Johnson said that all problems could be 'solved during the implementation period'. However, Boris Johnson is also advocating leaving without a deal in October - and therefore there would be no 'implementation period'. It seems like an extraordinary misunderstanding of the situation from someone who is the hot favourite to be the next Prime Minister.

On top of this, Johnson also seemed to flatly contradict his key policy of delivering Brexit by 31st October... when pressed on how he would achieve it, all he could say was that exiting the EU by the end of October was "eminently feasible"... the difference between saying that something will/must be done and merely saying that it could be done is massive, and yet Johnson's comments last night suggest that he already knows that it is unlikely to happen - which is a problem when he has made leaving the EU in October his signature policy.

In other words, I fear that it is about to become all too painfully apparent that Boris Johnson is bluffing and doesn't really have any credible answers to the challenges posed by Brexit. It doesn't exactly instil much confidence when Johnson is also the source of many of the more fanciful and optimistic claims about how the UK will fare outside the EU.

An article in the Economist this week (requires creating a free account to read) warns that a No Deal Brexit will make any future trade agreements with the EU extremely difficult, as the UK would immediately become a 'third country', meaning that agreement is required from not just the EU27 member states, but all national and regional parliaments as well, making any agreements substantially harder to achieve than if they were negotiated during an agreed implementation period.
 
Touring Mars
An article in the Economist this week (requires creating a free account to read) warns that a No Deal Brexit will make any future trade agreements with the EU extremely difficult, as the UK would immediately become a 'third country', meaning that agreement is required from not just the EU27 member states, but all national and regional parliaments as well, making any agreements substantially harder to achieve than if they were negotiated during an agreed implementation period.
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An obstacle for which Brexiteers will inevitably blame the EU despite presumably knowing about this in advance.
 
Touring Mars
Anyone who may be tempted into believing that Boris Johnson represents a smart way forward for the UK would do well to examine some of his comments in last night's televised party leadership 'debate', which should set some alarm bells ringing, even among his more staunch supporters.

When asked about how to address the Irish border issue, Johnson said that all problems could be 'solved during the implementation period'. However, Boris Johnson is also advocating leaving without a deal in October - and therefore there would be no 'implementation period'. It seems like an extraordinary misunderstanding of the situation from someone who is the hot favourite to be the next Prime Minister.

On top of this, Johnson also seemed to flatly contradict his key policy of delivering Brexit by 31st October... when pressed on how he would achieve it, all he could say was that exiting the EU by the end of October was "eminently feasible"... the difference between saying that something will/must be done and merely saying that it could be done is massive, and yet Johnson's comments last night suggest that he already knows that it is unlikely to happen - which is a problem when he has made leaving the EU in October his signature policy.

In other words, I fear that it is about to become all too painfully apparent that Boris Johnson is bluffing and doesn't really have any credible answers to the challenges posed by Brexit. It doesn't exactly instil much confidence when Johnson is also the source of many of the more fanciful and optimistic claims about how the UK will fare outside the EU.

An article in the Economist this week (requires creating a free account to read) warns that a No Deal Brexit will make any future trade agreements with the EU extremely difficult, as the UK would immediately become a 'third country', meaning that agreement is required from not just the EU27 member states, but all national and regional parliaments as well, making any agreements substantially harder to achieve than if they were negotiated during an agreed implementation period.
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The issue that UK has is that BoJo is a populist. Populists are only found out if they dont have media backing. Most of the people that would back boris, would read media that are effectively ERG mouthpieces. And anything that goes wrong, would be blamed on something else.

Similar in the US, in rational land Trump would have been found out, but his complete control of Fox, and the way he has successfully attributed any criticism of him from the CNN's of the world as fake, has kept him safe.
 
Boris's only goal is to make himself and his friends wealthier and more powerful. He's so blatant about it it beggars belief and draws worrying parallels
 
If the result is more or less 50/50 then you've asked the wrong question.

The fact we have gotten this far down the road is staggering.

I don't know what the solution is, but I know it is not Brexit.
 
drummingcat
The issue that UK has is that BoJo is a populist. Populists are only found out if they dont have media backing.
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drummingcat
Similar in the US, in rational land Trump would have been found out, but his complete control of Fox, and the way he has successfully attributed any criticism of him from the CNN's of the world as fake,
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I could more see the reasoning in the media concept IF such party or politician controlled all of the major medias output.

Not familiar with the media outlets in the UK but here in the U.S. the above stating that having the backing of Fox which is just a single media outlet among many in the U.S. that what Fox reports has "kept him safe" or kept what negative reports have surfaced on one of the many but not all news outlets, CNN, CBS, ABC, NBC whether such reports are true or false from the public population forming their own opinions pretty much sounds like an excuse from supporters of the opposing party that there are other just as powerful and plentiful factions of the population that do not agree with their views or choices when it comes to the issues and their party lost or is losing the election.
 
drummingcat
The issue that UK has is that BoJo is a populist. Populists are only found out if they dont have media backing. Most of the people that would back boris, would read media that are effectively ERG mouthpieces. And anything that goes wrong, would be blamed on something else.

Similar in the US, in rational land Trump would have been found out, but his complete control of Fox, and the way he has successfully attributed any criticism of him from the CNN's of the world as fake, has kept him safe.
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I think you're exactly right, & of course that is a big problem with what is happening in the UK, in the US & globally. People are increasingly getting their information from partisan sources ... & those sources are increasingly partisan.

Everyday I look at the Fox News website, as well as CNN & some others. Fox & CNN might as well be discussing events on two different planets.
 
baldgye
CAUTION: The quoted post below has been edited from the original text. The quoting poster has changed the original sentence. I, MaxAttack, have coldly and deliberately edited this text for my own nefarious ends.

The extreme left incite violence, the extreme right incite violence

But who’s the real victim? And why can’t we all just be nice to each other?
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FTFY

Violent insanity crosses all borders.
 
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TenEightyOne
That seems to be a quite dishonest reworking of somebody's post represented in a way that makes it look like that user's words. If you had a comment to add then obviously you should add it... but pretending other users have posted things they haven't seems quite odd.
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Fixed That For You

Pretty common joke that I reckon doesn't fly over the head of any savvy forum user. Anyone who didn't understand it... would probably just google the acronym, right?
 
MaxAttack
Fixed That For You

Pretty common joke that I reckon doesn't fly over the head of any savvy forum user. Anyone who didn't understand it... would probably just google the acronym, right?
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Thanks Mr. Savvy but it's not an acronym and you hardly made a minor edit of the scale that's customary when using that initialisation.
 
MaxAttack
Altered That For You

Pretty annoying joke that I reckon doesn't get the approval of any savvy forum user. Anyone who didn't understand I changed the words written by another user without leaving the original words slashed ... would probably just find it distasteful, right?
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ATFY

Is this how it works then?
 
TenEightyOne
Thanks Mr. Savvy but it's not an acronym and you hardly made a minor edit of the scale that's customary when using that initialisation.
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Pretty sure the joke is all about completely reversing the meaning of the post in question... I hardly see it as misleading, the original unedited post is plainly visible.

OP says extreme left throws milkshake, extreme right murders. Disagree with that. Extremists of every type have done some horrible things both recently and otherwise. Made the joke to make that point. Very biased to say milkshake chucking is the worst of things leftists have done. Equally biased to imply right wing extremists only know/are using violence to make their arguments. Demonstrably false; ISIS had a magazine, right?

Whatever. I guess I will refrain from making my points too hidden behind layers of metaphor and mystique.

Hun200kmh
ATFY

Is this how it works then?
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I'm not offended by it, so I guess so?

Literally never had anyone take issue with me using FTFY before.

EDIT: I made my edit a little clearer to reduce any further antagonisation. If this isn't enough to make the joke clear I consent to have my posts bordered in hazard tape so everyone knows I am not to be trusted.

Or just remove it. I'm more confused than invested.
 
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MaxAttack
Pretty sure the joke is all about completely reversing the meaning of the post in question... I hardly see it as misleading, the original unedited post is plainly visible.

OP says extreme left throws milkshake, extreme right murders. Disagree with that. Extremists of every type have done some horrible things both recently and otherwise. Made the joke to make that point. Very biased to say milkshake chucking is the worst of things leftists have done. Equally biased to imply right wing extremists only know/are using violence to make their arguments. Demonstrably false; ISIS had a magazine, right?

Whatever. I guess I will refrain from making my points too hidden behind layers of metaphor and mystique.

I'm not offended by it, so I guess so?

Literally never had anyone take issue with me using FTFY before.

EDIT: I made my edit a little clearer to reduce any further antagonisation. If this isn't enough to make the joke clear I consent to have my posts bordered in hazard tape so everyone knows I am not to be trusted.

Or just remove it. I'm more confused than invested.
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I would like to add, by fixing it, you actually belittled my comment on the state of politics and some of the comments in this thread.

So you'd have been better of not bothering and simply replying properly that you didn't agree, or that you consider murder = throwing a milkshake at someone... but hey-ho
 
baldgye
simply replying properly that you didn't agree, or that you consider murder = throwing a milkshake at someone... but hey-ho
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At least when I butcher your post and misrepresent what you're saying, it's a joke, and not the misguided jab I see before me now.

I guess you think I edited your post to defend nazis, or belittle liberals, or whatever else.

OK. It's a bit of a low blow. But I also assume the ability of people in this thread to disseminate information themselves, read the whole thread, realise its a FTFY joke, move on with their lives.

You can take issue with how I post. No problems with that. But don't just go ahead and drop me in the Nazi camp. I didn't ever equate throwing a drink to murder. It just makes me think you have more of an issue with what I'm saying than, as you claim, how I am saying it.

Don't take issue with my offhanded, jocular comment and then try to put me down with an offhanded, jocular comment.
 

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