Brexit - The UK leaves the EU

[baldgye]

Sound the like the North American equivalent of having Bill Maher hosting a roundtable discussion world affairs with Ben Affleck, Kim Kardashian, Jim Carrey and Dennis Rodman.

hmmm


To be fair to Danny Dyer though, his amazing rant shows far more knowledge and passion than any major politician in any of the three leading parties has expressed for anything... at least in my life time anyway. Imagine if any of the parties had someone in the cabinet or shadow cabinet who gave that much of a **** about anything (that wasn't their own career)?

 

[baldgye]

Hope it’s not a problem to double post/bump this thread. Despite how many Leavers pop up here and there, non of them seem interested in actually talking about Brexit or posting news articles... wonder why...


Anyway speaking of news!

Nissan to Sue Leave campaign!
https://amp.theguardian.com/busines...er?CMP=share_btn_tw&__twitter_impression=true

Disregard, I’m a silly-billy and didn’t notice the date!

 

[TenEightyOne]

Nissan to Sue Leave campaign!
https://amp.theguardian.com/busines...er?CMP=share_btn_tw&__twitter_impression=true

2 years ago. What was the outcome, do we know?

 

[baldgye]

2 years ago. What was the outcome, do we know?

Hahaha How did I miss that date!!!

After some googling I can’t see any news on a result, so I’m guessing they either didn’t sue or they settled it before it ever got to a court room

 

[Touring Mars]

This weekend, UK PM Theresa May will have to come up with a proposal to put to the EU detailing the UK's Brexit plan - although it already appears that the EU have all but dismissed every possible option that she might propose. It is getting rather tiresome to hear the EU continually demand 'clarity' and that the UK 'must put its cards on the table', while at the same time ruling out everything - the chances of 'no deal' are looking very high right now.

Something clearly has to give - and I reckon it might take a huge concession from the UK government to persuade the EU to start considering one of the preferred options on a future trade deal with the UK... and it could well be that that concession comes in the form of Northern Ireland, arguably the most contentious of sticking points in the whole Brexit mega-shambles. Theresa May has said that a 'border between NI and GB is something no British PM can agree to'... but really, why? But for the fact that May's government is propped up by the DUP, it looks more and more like the better option - indeed, there are already border controls between NI and the rest of the UK for a variety of goods (and a variety of reasons), and hence from a practical point of view, the 'imaginary border in the Irish Sea' already exists... but it would be seen as a total betrayal of the DUP and would go down about as well as Boy George at a KKK rally. But, if the DUP and the other ultra-Unionists in Northern Ireland could be persuaded to accept this as a temporary measure - in place until the high-tech 'frictionless'/invisible border idea between NI and Eire was made possible - then that would resolve the Ireland issue once and for all... but what are the chances of that? The PM would need to order a tonne of cheddar cheese and pineapple on a stick for starters.

The only way that May could succeed with such a bold move would be to get pro-Brexit MPs from across all parties (except the DUP of course!) to agree to it, and that could be pretty hard when they can see that the alternative is that the government collapses and forces a General Election. Ironically, if that were to happen, the EU would have to take a good look at itself and consider the possible/likely effects of the whole Brexit process collapsing - it would play massively into the hands of Euroskeptics and populist movements across Europe. It would also be a classic case of 'careful what you wish for' - if they really want the UK to stay in the EU, it isn't a great idea to attempt to achieve that end by scuppering Brexit (as opposed to trying to persuade the UK to stay by making some concessions)... the UK will still be at the top table in the EU but will effectively be there against its will (or at least against the will of the majority of the voting UK public), who could effectively scupper any future plans the EU might have towards further integration (or anything else for that matter) - in other words, forcing a situation that keeps the UK fully within the EU against its will could be massively counterproductive.

 

[Lizard]

May hasn't got it yet. She is being the 'bloody difficult woman' she promised to be yet the EU has turned round and just said 🤬 you we wont do a deal then, she hasn't twigged that they aren't bluffing and really will leave us without a deal.

 

[baldgye]

This weekend, UK PM Theresa May will have to come up with a proposal to put to the EU detailing the UK's Brexit plan - although it already appears that the EU have all but dismissed every possible option that she might propose.

To be fair, that's because what May is proposing isn't workable.

The only way that May could succeed with such a bold move would be to get pro-Brexit MPs from across all parties (except the DUP of course!) to agree to it, and that could be pretty hard when they can see that the alternative is that the government collapses and forces a General Election. Ironically, if that were to happen, the EU would have to take a good look at itself and consider the possible/likely effects of the whole Brexit process collapsing - it would play massively into the hands of Euroskeptics and populist movements across Europe. It would also be a classic case of 'careful what you wish for' - if they really want the UK to stay in the EU, it isn't a great idea to attempt to achieve that end by scuppering Brexit (as opposed to trying to persuade the UK to stay by making some concessions)... the UK will still be at the top table in the EU but will effectively be there against its will (or at least against the will of the majority of the voting UK public), who could effectively scupper any future plans the EU might have towards further integration (or anything else for that matter) - in other words, forcing a situation that keeps the UK fully within the EU against its will could be massively counterproductive.

I don't disagree with you at all. But wouldn't realistically, that be the best case for the EU? The EU and other EU nations where, prior to Brexit and Cameron's second election pretty pissed off with the way the UK treated EU legislation. The UK always go special treatment and resentment was building. If the EU could get the UK to accept EU trade law, thus keeping the trade with the EU, but not have any power or say in it's running... wouldn't that be a huge win?


The UK leaving the EU weakens the EU, however it happens, and if one is to believe the word that Brexit was helped or encouraged by Russia, then isn't a Soft Brexit, really what the EU want? Well that, or of course, no Brexit...

 

[Touring Mars]

To be fair, that's because what May is proposing isn't workable.

But it's only unworkable because the EU are making it so..

If the EU could get the UK to accept EU trade law, thus keeping the trade with the EU, but not have any power or say in it's running... wouldn't that be a huge win?

Yes, but that involves the UK leaving the EU - what I'm suggesting is that by their own misguided efforts, the EU might somehow conspire to force a situation where the UK doesn't leave, and that this could have very bad consequences.

Of course the EU will consider it a win if the UK leaves only to then adopt a Norway-style deal (which is what you describe), but that's not likely to happen IMO.

The UK leaving the EU weakens the EU, however it happens, and if one is to believe the word that Brexit was helped or encouraged by Russia, then isn't a Soft Brexit, really what the EU want? Well that, or of course, no Brexit...

As I've just said, I don't believe 'No Brexit' is a smart move for anyone now - but yes, Soft Brexit would make sense... but the EU have dismissed this option out of hand.

 

[baldgye]

But it's only unworkable because the EU are making it so..

Yes, but that involves the UK leaving the EU - what I'm suggesting is that by their own misguided efforts, the EU might somehow conspire to force a situation where the UK doesn't leave, and that this could have very bad consequences.
Of course the EU will consider it a win if the UK leaves only to then adopt a Norway-style deal (which is what you describe), but that's not likely to happen IMO.
As I've just said, I don't believe 'No Brexit' is a smart move for anyone now - but yes, Soft Brexit would make sense... but as has been said many times already, the EU have dismissed this option out of hand.

I can see what you mean, but even in the pro-Brexit news, that isn't the narrative that I've seen, so I even if that is the case (and I'm not sure it is), it's not how it will be seen.
May and Corbyn are so weak that they will (and are) seen as the problem. I can't see any resolution (leaving or staying) until we get a strong leader who says one way or another and makes it happen. At the moment we have two dithering party leaders and a firm EU...

I don't really agree with the idea that staying is a bad idea at this stage either, but I guess that's news to no one!

 

[TRGTspecialist]

But for the fact that May's government is propped up by the DUP

It's not clear to me why May hasn't forced the DUPs hand more than she has appeared to. Now the DUP are no strangers to defying logic, but if they did decide to bring down the government, they'd have to explain to their voters how they're giving Jeremy Corbyn his best ever chance to become PM..........you know, that great champion of unionism

 

[TenEightyOne]

It's not clear to me why May hasn't forced the DUPs hand more than she has appeared to. Now the DUP are no strangers to defying logic, but if they did decide to bring down the government, they'd have to explain to their voters how they're giving Jeremy Corbyn his best ever chance to become PM..........you know, that great champion of unionism

Arlene wossername is now on a "charm offensive". She even said the L-word the other day, probably through splintering teeth.

 

[Scaff]

Arlene wossername is now on a "charm offensive". She even said the L-word the other day, probably through splintering teeth.

While effectively saying 'please respect our views, while we continue to vote to ensure you don't have the same fundemental rights as us'.

More on topic, I'm still surprised that people are surprised that the EU is sticking to it's guns with regard to the UK effectively having three options. 1) hard brexits, no deal at all, 2) abandon Article 50 and rejoin, or 3) a deal that will leave the UK in a weaker position that it was as a member.

The EU has to be honest been clear and consistent from day 1 that these are the only three options, and that the leave with a deal one was always going to leave the UK in a weaker position (as from the EU perspective anything else would be stupid).

The simple reason that the UKs proposals are rebuffed is that we keep going to the EU with either nothing or options that would give us a better deal that we had now.

Any of these three options 'works' for the EU, and the end result of this is a clear change in attitudes from most EU citizens about any thoughts of leaving.

Now the Euro is a different matter, but opinions on that are unlikely to sway the rest into giving in to the UK and harming the whole.

Brexits will hurt the UK more than the EU in options 1 and 3, but that was always going to be the case and the EU has been consistently clear on that from day 1 (unlike the Leave fairy tales that were never going to pass). The simple truth is that the UK was never negotiating from a position of strength, we need the EU more than they need us and they have far more experience and skill at these kinds of negotiations than the UK has.

 

[baldgye]

Seems like importing food from outside the EU isn't easy... hmm who’da thought...

 

[Touring Mars]

The Centre for European Reform has published a new analysis that shows what the cost of the UK's decision to leave the EU has cost so far - a cost equivalent to £440 million a week...

https://www.cer.eu/insights/whats-cost-brexit-so-far

 

[baldgye]

The Centre for European Reform has published a new analysis that shows what the cost of the UK's decision to leave the EU has cost so far - a cost equivalent to £440 million a week...

https://www.cer.eu/insights/whats-cost-brexit-so-far

It’s at times like these when I look forward to all the pro-Brexit members posting factual rebuttals to news stories like these. Y’know, so that there are some positives to come out of this total cluster-****...

 

[Dotini]

It’s at times like these when I look forward to all the pro-Brexit members posting factual rebuttals to news stories like these. Y’know, so that there are some positives to come out of this total cluster-****...

Money doesn't mean everything. For instance, I bought my house for $64k and could sell it today for a quick and easy $920,000, or more. But it would make me miserable because I would have to move far away from all the things I love. Peace, tranquility and happiness mean much more than money. That said, I don't deny the basic facts of your total cluster ****.

 

[baldgye]

Money doesn't mean everything. For instance, I bought my house for $64k and could sell it today for a quick and easy $920,000, or more. But it would make me miserable because I would have to move far away from all the things I love. Peace, tranquility and happiness mean much more than money. That said, I don't deny the basic facts of your total cluster ****.

Knowing your sat on just under a million dollars worth of real estate must be nice. Thanks for sharing, I now know that money I could have earned wouldn’t have made be any happier! A positive!

 

[Imari]

Money doesn't mean everything. For instance, I bought my house for $64k and could sell it today for a quick and easy $920,000, or more. But it would make me miserable because I would have to move far away from all the things I love. Peace, tranquility and happiness mean much more than money.

As long as you have enough money to start with. You'll find that it can be very difficult to find peace, tranquillity and happiness if you can't afford food, clothes or a roof over your head. Money doesn't necessarily make you happy (although it sure helps), but lack of it definitely stops you from being happy in a hurry.

 

[Liquid]

As the old saying goes, I'd rather cry in a Ferrari than a shop doorway.

 

[Johnnypenso]

As long as you have enough money to start with. You'll find that it can be very difficult to find peace, tranquillity and happiness if you can't afford food, clothes or a roof over your head. Money doesn't necessarily make you happy (although it sure helps), but lack of it definitely stops you from being happy in a hurry.

Sounds legit on paper but not necessarily true in practice, or at least not true for everyone. I was flat broke 20 years ago and on the verge of bankruptcy. Started a new business, drew no salary for 6 months and $500/month for 6 months after that. Worked back to back 18 hour shifts with 4 hours sleep in between to man the shop and a total of 63 hours a week just in the shop. I fought through it and came out smelling like a rose but I still enjoyed my life immensely when I was broke and living with a friend. I look back on those days very fondly and even at the time I never thought of myself as totally broke, just struggling. I knew I'd make it out for one reason - I was willing to work hard.

Most dudes I know have been in the same boat and every single one of them is successful today.

 

[baldgye]

Sounds legit on paper but not necessarily true in practice, or at least not true for everyone. I was flat broke 20 years ago and on the verge of bankruptcy. Started a new business, drew no salary for 6 months and $500/month for 6 months after that. Worked back to back 18 hour shifts with 4 hours sleep in between to man the shop and a total of 63 hours a week just in the shop. I fought through it and came out smelling like a rose but I still enjoyed my life immensely when I was broke and living with a friend. I look back on those days very fondly and even at the time I never thought of myself as totally broke, just struggling. I knew I'd make it out for one reason - I was willing to work hard.

Most dudes I know have been in the same boat and every single one of them is successful today.

If you where flat broke and near bankruptcy, how did you afford to own a shop (which I'm assuming is the case based on the little information provided in this wonderful story of hope)?

 

[Johnnypenso]

If you where flat broke and near bankruptcy, how did you afford to own a shop (which I'm assuming is the case based on the little information provided in this wonderful story of hope)?

I would explain it to you in detail but I have zero faith that anything I say would be accepted on it's face so I'll keep that five minutes of typing to myself and take a pass.

 

[baldgye]

I would explain it to you in detail but I have zero faith that anything I say would be accepted on it's face so I'll keep that five minutes of typing to myself and take a pass.

oh. I guess where just back to the one positive aspect of Brexit that @Dotini shared then.

 

[Touring Mars]

Peace, tranquility and happiness mean much more than money.

Reminds me of a classic Elvis Costello lyric: "Was it a millionaire who said 'Imagine no possessions...'"

 

[Dotini]

Hot tips to make money:
- Be white and male.
- Come from a good family and stay on good terms with them.
- Get an education, even if it's only liberal arts.
- The highest rate of pay will usually come from commission sales, but be prepared to works nights, weekends and stab your buddy in the back.
- Texas may still be the best place where an ordinary person can get rich with luck, smarts and hard work.
- Unions, especially longshoremen, teamsters and electricians will get you high pay and high pension.
- The US is in desperate need of long distance truckers. Maybe $50k to start.
- Be frugal.
- Learn the commodities markets.

 

[baldgye]

Hot tips to make money:
- Be white and male.
- Come from a good family and stay on good terms with them.
- Get an education, even if it's only liberal arts.
- The highest rate of pay will usually come from commission sales, but be prepared to works nights, weekends and stab your buddy in the back.
- Texas may still be the best place where an ordinary person can get rich with luck, smarts and hard work.
- Unions, especially longshoremen, teamsters and electricians will get you high pay and high pension.
- The US is in desperate need of long distance truckers. Maybe $50k to start.
- Be frugal.
- Learn the commodities markets.

Some helpful Brexit advice 👍

 

[MatskiMonk]

It's ******* **** not having money, and anyone who disagrees can send me donations via paypal! I've had enough of being ******* skint whilst my taxes are given to spongers and my interest payments are given to people who are already obscenely rich.

 

[baldgye]

It's ******* **** not having money, and anyone who disagrees can send me donations via paypal! I've had enough of being ******* skint whilst my taxes are given to spongers and my interest payments are given to people who are already obscenely rich.

Don’t worry, Leave has you covered!
And if all else fails I’m sure you can emigrate to the US and become a truck driver!

 

[Johnnypenso]

Hot tips to make money:
- Be white and male.
- Come from a good family and stay on good terms with them.
- Get an education, even if it's only liberal arts.
- The highest rate of pay will usually come from commission sales, but be prepared to works nights, weekends and stab your buddy in the back.
- Texas may still be the best place where an ordinary person can get rich with luck, smarts and hard work.
- Unions, especially longshoremen, teamsters and electricians will get you high pay and high pension.
- The US is in desperate need of long distance truckers. Maybe $50k to start.
- Be frugal.
- Learn the commodities markets.

Sage advice from a man who knows:tup:👍

 

[MatskiMonk]

And if all else fails I’m sure you can emigrate to the US and become a truck driver!

Don't worry, if all else fails I got a back-up plan... and it'll fix everything... it'll fix everything real good... <shakes fist at cloud>