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I once offended Greene King directly, in print. To be fair to them, they then supplied free tickets to "the races" for the people that published my libelous comments... they took the joke well.
Still ******* **** beer though.
Brexit - The UK leaves the EU
- Thread starter Touring Mars
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I once offended Greene King directly, in print. To be fair to them, they then supplied free tickets to "the races" for the people that published my libelous comments... they took the joke well.
Still ******* **** beer though.
David Davis has resigned!!
Updates, when they come Via the Independent
If there was serious talk of a leadership challenge prior to tonight, I imagine they just got a bit of a boost now!
His resignation letter;
(Via the FT so let me know if it’s not visible to some)
Updates, when they come Via the Independent
If there was serious talk of a leadership challenge prior to tonight, I imagine they just got a bit of a boost now!
His resignation letter;
(Via the FT so let me know if it’s not visible to some)
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- 29,078
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The Brexit has hit the fan...
I can't see how any of the pro-Leave camp (Gove, Johnson, Rees-Mogg etc.) can stay now, but I also expect that there will be a vote of no confidence in Theresa May later this week.
And then Donald Trump arrives.
And you thought you had a bad week ahead?
I can't see how any of the pro-Leave camp (Gove, Johnson, Rees-Mogg etc.) can stay now, but I also expect that there will be a vote of no confidence in Theresa May later this week.
And then Donald Trump arrives.
And you thought you had a bad week ahead?
It depends how you arrange the comments - they are surprisingly balanced unless you list them in order of likes, in which case it becomes a little more one-sided! That said, at least the comments at the Telegraph are of a higher standard than the tabloids, though even Youtube has better comments than the Mail.
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I think it’s worth restating.
David Davis, our negotiator on Brexit has quit, and we have some 9* months until we leave the bloc.
He left because the ‘solution’ to Brexit was unworkable. This solution gave away more power to the EU than Brexiter’s said we ever had, and so in going for May’s unworkable plan would have put us in a far worse position than we are, even now.
In the 7 or so years of UKIP existing and in the 3 years or so of Leave being a thing, no one has a plan or a clue how to execute separation from the EU that would not only work, but be BETTER than being in it.
EDIT: updated with @Touring Mars correction
David Davis, our negotiator on Brexit has quit, and we have some 9* months until we leave the bloc.
He left because the ‘solution’ to Brexit was unworkable. This solution gave away more power to the EU than Brexiter’s said we ever had, and so in going for May’s unworkable plan would have put us in a far worse position than we are, even now.
In the 7 or so years of UKIP existing and in the 3 years or so of Leave being a thing, no one has a plan or a clue how to execute separation from the EU that would not only work, but be BETTER than being in it.
EDIT: updated with @Touring Mars correction
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- 29,078
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It's less than 9 months away.
The cabinet is split - the majority of the most senior Tory MPs, who originally favoured remaining in the EU, now favour 'Soft Brexit' - formally exiting the EU while remaining tied to its basic rules (and under the jurisdiction of the ECJ) in order to maintain single market access. This is anathema to the Leave side of the party, and they now believe that Theresa May is lying to them in order to get her way. May now needs opposition support to get anywhere.
All the while, there is growing support for a 'second referendum' - either a straightforward re-run of the 'In or Out?' question (seen as a betrayal of democracy to the majority who voted to Leave in the first vote) or, more legitimately, a referendum on whether or not the UK people accept the Brexit deal once it has been agreed. I think we can safely rule that out on the basis that there doesn't even seem to be a deal that can make it through Parliament, thus another referendum would be a de facto re-run of the first - and I doubt that will happen. But imagine that it did - the UK public would almost certainly vote it down - the Leavers would vote against it because it is too soft, Remainers would vote against it because soft Brexit is much worse than simply staying in the EU in the first place - so a public vote would scupper the deal virtually no matter what.
And last but by no means least, there's the EU negotiators lying in wait to reject the deal if it gives the UK anything like an advantage or a benefit over full EU membership - as if we needed reminding, this means Soft Brexit is not possible - just like asking the Greeks whether they wanted to pay off their debts or have them written off, it's a no-brainer how people would vote... but it's kind of pointless asking people to vote on something that cannot be delivered!!
I don't envy Dominic Raab - though I sincerely hope he spends a bit longer talking to the EU than the 4 hours David Davis spent talking to Michel Barnier this year...
Also worth noting that the grass-roots Labour supporters are pushing for Corbyn to lead the Remain charge... given that he's only leader because of their backing, it could actually give him a platform... assuming he takes it
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Corbyn and May are like two peas in a pod when it comes to Brexit... they both want the impossible - to 'respect the vote' (i.e. Leave the EU) but to 'do the best for Britain' (i.e. not really leave the EU/Soft Brexit). Corbyn's hostility to the EU is well documented and consistent - but he is at least smart enough to realise that leaving the EU without a good deal is going to be terribly damaging to the UK - but it remains to be seen if a 'good deal' is even possible. If Corbyn or May really want to do what is best for the UK, they should both resign and call a General Election - the Tories with Gove, Johnson or Rees-Mogg at the helm promising a Hard Brexit, and Labour firmly behind revoking Article 50 and giving up completely with the idea of Brexit. The sooner both parties wake up to the fact that Soft Brexit isn't going to happen, the better.
Who?
Tired Tyres
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If the GE was called, then I agree, but as it stands the Liberal Democrats don't have a platform in which to get their message out. Also I can't see Vince Cable being able to convince anyone... at least Nick Clegg looked like your children's nice head master.
Unfortunately people in this country tend to have a party and vote for them regardless, which tends to marginalise the Lib Dems
- 29,078
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And UKIP.
Labour and the Conservatives are virtually indistinguishable on Brexit - both have hedged their bets and both have lost.
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- PD_ApexPredator
It can be difficult to isolate those things, and many people were already struggling from successive government's post-crash austerity measures so who's really to say what's worse; the rock or the hard place. It certainly hasn't helped anyone bar a few crony traders shorting the UK economy.
- 29,078
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If England win the World Cup, nobody there will give a rat's ass about Brexit - until they lose their jobs anyway.
In all honesty, I doubt it is having much of an effect other than to cause irritation - but the Scottish independence referendum was a stressful occasion for me and many of my friends and colleagues, ironically because we believed that it would turn into precisely the kind of omnishambles that Brexit has now foisted upon us anyway.
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I wouldn't want to generalise but it wouldn't surprise me if we looked back in 5 years time and saw an increased trend, or perhaps more severe consequences, for issues like depression and axiety etc. coinciding with the whole debacle. I'm sure there are links between such disorders and recession or unemployment, and Brexit brings with it similar financial pressure and/or uncertainty... it really depends how bad it gets when we actually leave I suppose.
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And he's gone...
Boris Johnson resigns as Foreign Secretary
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/09/boris-johnson-resigns-as-foreign-secretary-brexit
Boris Johnson resigns as Foreign Secretary
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/09/boris-johnson-resigns-as-foreign-secretary-brexit
****ing hell
UKMikey
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This was inevitable. Just by reading Touring Mars' excellent posts in this thread (no offense to many other very interesting contributions from others) it becomes very clear that the UK is locked within something like a Mobius strip. Leave means leave, and everybody wants it except that nobody wants its consequences. And this has been going around in an endless, locked, loop since 2016.
And now, when finally you can sense that it's almost time to say "time's up", reality starts to sink in. Leave means leave. And the UK didn't prepare for it.
I suppose nobody is innocent in this tale. Boris should have become prime minister (although technically incorrect I suppose that politically you can say that he won the referendum, the people believed him, that he had the mandate and therefore the responsability to implemente what he advocated should be done). But he knew better. As Gove did, and this one jumped first, so he jumped after.
Mrs. May only saw her oportunity to become PM, became blinded by it and jumped into the train destined to a wreck. And now I think she finally saw the wall in the distance. That's what that Chequers meeting was all about. The UK pretty much humiliated, the EU slightly bemused watching, also in fear of what's next, because nobody (certainly not the European countries) want another crisis to add to the shambles that international diplomacy has become.
What a mess …
And now, when finally you can sense that it's almost time to say "time's up", reality starts to sink in. Leave means leave. And the UK didn't prepare for it.
I suppose nobody is innocent in this tale. Boris should have become prime minister (although technically incorrect I suppose that politically you can say that he won the referendum, the people believed him, that he had the mandate and therefore the responsability to implemente what he advocated should be done). But he knew better. As Gove did, and this one jumped first, so he jumped after.
Mrs. May only saw her oportunity to become PM, became blinded by it and jumped into the train destined to a wreck. And now I think she finally saw the wall in the distance. That's what that Chequers meeting was all about. The UK pretty much humiliated, the EU slightly bemused watching, also in fear of what's next, because nobody (certainly not the European countries) want another crisis to add to the shambles that international diplomacy has become.
What a mess …
a little bit of sick just came up...
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Calm and not chaos?
Strong and stable government?
This is some of the worst 🤬 I can think of to have ever hit the fan for just sheer ridiculousness and incompetence.
We're through the looking glass; it's down there with the winter of discontent, the Profumo scandal and the Suez crisis.
Strong and stable government?
This is some of the worst 🤬 I can think of to have ever hit the fan for just sheer ridiculousness and incompetence.
We're through the looking glass; it's down there with the winter of discontent, the Profumo scandal and the Suez crisis.
To put the recent news into some perspective;
Also looks like the Pound has taken another, pounding thanks to Bojo running away
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