Britain - The Official Thread

[LeMansAid]

I haven't read all text, but it seems to me that @KSaiyu is suggesting that best judgment is used in dealing with people, and that ethnic/cultural background is considered as a potential flag. I imagine that there would be plenty of cases where medical staff deemed it perfectly likely that telling a particular Asian family of a fetus' gender would be of no concern, but reality is that cultural difference and unacceptabilities exist. Equally, I'm utterly confident that those unacceptabilities will dissipate over time, and I would hope that best judgment parameters would adjust accordingly.

They are probably unwritten considerations rather than unwritten rules.

There are risks and consequences in all jobs, but I can't say I would like to be subject to the consequences of those in the medical arena without calling on all of the knowledge at my disposal in forming best judgment, regardless of if it would be deemed cultural profiling or not. I don't envy the field you work in @KSaiyu.....

You know that as the amount of Muslim taxi drivers has increased, the incidence of sexual assaults in cabs has increased

Hang on, so only "brown" taxi drivers assault women? Oh, quite right. White people never commit sexual assault and illegal minicabbing never happened until we opened up the borders.

Puh-lease.

... and completely illogical extrapolations as seen above reek a little too much of unfair character assassination to me, and an unwillingness to recognise the perils you face.

Ivory towers.

 

[KSaiyu]

I haven't read all text, but it seems to me that @KSaiyu is suggesting that best judgment is used in dealing with people, and that ethnic/cultural background is considered as a potential flag. I imagine that there would be plenty of cases where medical staff deemed it perfectly likely that telling a particular Asian family of a fetus' gender would be of no concern, but reality is that cultural difference and unacceptabilities exist. Equally, I'm utterly confident that those unacceptabilities will dissipate over time, and I would hope that best judgment parameters would adjust accordingly.

They are probably unwritten considerations rather than unwritten rules.

There are risks and consequences in all jobs, but I can't say I would like to be subject to the consequences of those in the medical arena without calling on all of the knowledge at my disposal in forming best judgment, regardless of if it would be deemed cultural profiling or not. I don't envy the field you work in @KSaiyu.....




... and completely illogical extrapolations as seen above reek a little too much of unfair character assassination to me, and an unwillingness to recognise the perils you face.

Ivory towers.

This is the problem with approaching the world and people as fairly as you can - we have been told not to think or draw conclusions for ourselves by the fear of not being PC. Since we are talking about the burden on the NHS let's talk about the white British. As a whole this population treat their elderly terribly. This is where I am in agreement with Muslims, who are probably the best example of how to treat their elders. We just can't understand how so many people dump their mums and dads into care homes after they were raised and supported perhaps most of their life, or who don't visit their aunts or cousins in hospital. I talk with Muslim visitors and friends about this and it seems a completely alien concept to us. One example of the dedication to family shown by Muslims was by two young Muslim professionals who would visit their dad (a stroke victim who had been left bedbound and had to have his hands put in mitts as he would try and punch and bite everyone including his sons) every day. They'd help with changes and personal care of their dad, and take an active role in his discharge. He was one of the most immaculately kept patients I'd seen, despite being one of the worst off after a stroke. They'd look at us confused when we said most relatives never help with changes.

These guys aren't role models for British Muslims, but for the British in general. The last phone call I dealt with to a white lady went along the lines of "my husband is yours and the care homes problem now, no I won't come and help deal with him in a critically understaffed ward". But (there's always a but) Muslim relatives need to appreciate ward visiting rules. We put maximum 2 up for a reason. We make allowances for 4, possibly 5 for a period (Sikhs and Hindus are good at following this bending or the rule). But today we had over eleven relatives for one patient in a side room! You might say what's the harm, as long as they make the patient happy? What if that patient deteriorates.. Do we expect everyone to just file out in an orderly queue. And telling them to leave is a temporary option as the next day, with new nurses they will be back to push their luck with different staff.

I don't envy the field you work in @@KSaiyu.....

You probably don't of where I live. Our police are currently holding 3 teenagers who have been stopped at Turkey with plans to go to Syria
Two come from North West London.

My fear when I talk about upcoming riots is a situation like this erupting from the Muslim ghettos

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_French_riots

Look at the bottom of the article, and read up about the riots under the "See Also" section. With the exception of the English riots, notice the trend across Europe.

 

[TenEightyOne]

You know that as the amount of Muslim taxi drivers has increased, the incidence of sexual assaults in cabs has increased (Met Police statistics).

And you know that since the number of music tracks downloaded digitally has increased, the incidence of sexual assaults in cabs has released.

Ignore the changes in the way that such crimes are "detected" and recorded, ignore the change in the way that the public are prepared to report such crime, just take her iPod from her before something nasty happens.

Stats, stats, stats.

Our police are currently holding 3 teenagers who have been stopped at Turkey with plans to go to Syria
Two come from North West London.

My fear when I talk about upcoming riots is a situation like this erupting from the Muslim ghettos

That's your grandest (and silliest) extrapolation yet. An eruption of three whole people.

How many whites have been to support fighting abroad in the last few years, and are they any less extreme? Or is a fight for Islaam somehow worse? You're still flapping about noisily in your own ridiculous prejudice as far as I can see,

 

[KSaiyu]

I have no idea if you're expecting me to reply to that with a straight face.

No actually I'll again ask a question (you've failed to when being directly questioned). If sexual abuse reporting has changed (well done because this is true), why have no uber drivers made headlines for rape (even though one Black cab did). Why is it notoriously hard to get a FOI on sexual assault statistics for London from the Met?

If I was white, and if I had a daughter I wouldn't wait for someone to prove causality. Same as I wouldn't send her through an estate full of black people. Or allow her to chat online to a white celebrity/MP

Anyway, times are changing

• Trevor Phillips is the former chairman of Commission for Racial Equality
• He has attacked 'racket' of multiculturalism sparked by Blair government
• Blamed the silencing of race issues for the Rotherham grooming scandal
• Claims we are 'more ready to offend each other' as price for free speech

In before "Lolz, Daily Fail" reply

 

[squadops]

@KSaiyu, as you lay out your argument what do you considered as the main motivation behind this 'racket'? Is it as simple as retaining power or are there other considerations such as avoiding 'hate' crimes etc.?

 

[KSaiyu]

To bring everything down to the lowest common denominator. State schools are garbage, NHS provision is collapsing, and a cult that wants to turn the clock back a few centuries is gaining traction in Britain. The only way to keep all of this secret and keep the population happy is to criminalise debate.

I'm reminded of scenes in Men In Black:

"Why the big secret? People are smart. They can handle it."

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow."



"Man, we ain't got time for this cover-up ********! I don't know whether or not you've forgotten, but there's an Arquillian Battle Cruiser that's about to..."


"There's always an Arquillian Battle Cruiser, or a Corillian Death Ray, or an intergalactic plague that is about to wipe out all life on this miserable little planet, and the only way these people can get on with their happy lives is that they DO NOT KNOW ABOUT IT!"

 

[Scaff]

If I was white, and if I had a daughter I wouldn't wait for someone to prove causality. Same as I wouldn't send her through an estate full of black people. Or allow her to chat online to a white celebrity/MP

Well if you plan to base your parenting around that kind of logic be sure to keep her away from every male member of your family and friends.

Anyway, times are changing

• Trevor Phillips is the former chairman of Commission for Racial Equality
• He has attacked 'racket' of multiculturalism sparked by Blair government
• Blamed the silencing of race issues for the Rotherham grooming scandal
• Claims we are 'more ready to offend each other' as price for free speech

In before "Lolz, Daily Fail" reply

And here is why the Daily Mail is not a good source.

"He has attacked 'racket' of multiculturalism sparked by Blair government"

Actually what he said was

""But we had said little about it and done even less. After 12 months at the CRE I had come to the conclusion that, while beautiful in theory, multiculturalism had become a racket in which self-style community leaders bargained for control over local authority funds that would prop up their own status and authority."
Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/03/16/multiculturalism-race-trevor-phillips_n_6875826.html

'Had become a racket', as in changed from what it was; not 'racket of' as in always had been.

If your source doesn't directly quote the person they are citing always question it.

 

[KSaiyu]

Ok....thoughts on his argument?

 

[squadops]

Obama started out as a 'community leader'

 

[Scaff]

Ok....thoughts on his argument?

Oh I actually agree with much of what he has to say, people are often afraid to discuss issues around race and religion, which is most certainly a problem.

However using the ability to discuss an issue as a platform to turn things into 'single-issue' situations is also a problem, things are never that simple and one of the issues with being afraid to discuss things is that it can and does allow people who are stupid enough to think that a single factor always causes issue 'x' to make themselves heard.

 

[TenEightyOne]

If sexual abuse reporting has changed (well done because this is true), why have no uber drivers made headlines for rape (even though one Black cab did). Why is it notoriously hard to get a FOI on sexual assault statistics for London from the Met?

I don't know, do you have a source for the number of Uber-cab rapes in the UK?

As to why the Met might resist FOI requests; I suspect they're using the rules to their maximum deflective interpretation. I have no direct knowledge of how they handle such requests.

 

[KSaiyu]

That's your grandest (and silliest) extrapolation yet. An eruption of three whole people.

How many whites have been to support fighting abroad in the last few years, and are they any less extreme? Or is a fight for Islaam somehow worse? You're still flapping about noisily in your own ridiculous prejudice as far as I can see,

And now it's been confirmed that the school these runaways went to is my sister's ex's.

So to recap:

Emwazi went to my sister's uni.
Terror suspects were arrested on the same road as my sister's current boyfriend.
Syria bound teenagers went to my sister's ex's school.
I've been to talks where I'm forced to sit at the front.
There have been at least 2 terror arrests connected to my uni.
The Remembrance Day plotters came from my hometown.

And you have the stupidity to say that I'm "flapping about noisily in ridiculous prejudice"?

Mate everyone sees through you.

 

[TenEightyOne]

And now it's been confirmed that the school these runaways went to is my sister's ex's.

So to recap:

Emwazi went to my sister's uni.
Terror suspects were arrested on the same road as my sister's current boyfriend.
Syria bound teenagers went to my sister's ex's school.
I've been to talks where I'm forced to sit at the front.
There have been at least 2 terror arrests connected to my uni.
The Remembrance Day plotters came from my hometown.

And you have the stupidity to say that I'm "flapping about noisily in ridiculous prejudice"?

Mate everyone sees through you.

Which all proves what? And you didn't answer the question; "How many whites have been to support fighting abroad in the last few years, and are they any less extreme? Or is a fight for Islaam somehow worse? ".

And I'm not your mate, sorry to disabuse you.

 

[KSaiyu]

And block.

Meanwhile, in my failing hospital it is 2:45 AM and I've had to order an ECG that should have been done by doctors (patient has hypokalemia and my ECG showed ST wave changes) and had to translate what biochemistry were saying to a Spanish nurse (Sodium result was 106, could this be because the blood was taken from a drip?)

I'm going to recommend that wards are shut down as this is a danger to patients now.

 

[squadops]

"How many whites have been to support fighting abroad in the last few years, and are they any less extreme? Or is a fight for Islaam somehow worse? ".

The difference being whites fighting abroad in state supported conflicts for the state. Less extreme is subjective and the Islaamic cause is against the state and it's interests abroad.

 

[TenEightyOne]

The difference being whites fighting abroad in state supported conflicts for the state. Less extreme is subjective and the Islaamic cause is against the state and it's interests abroad.

I think you'd be talking about armies when you say "state supported conflicts". I was thinking more of PMCs and mercs (eg the Angolan war). Being prepared to kill anyone in the name of a cause is pretty extreme, although that's just my opinion.

With @KSaiyu it seems that he has a particularly narrow field of view of Muslims based on his own experience, not necessarily on the experience of other contributors to this thread.

Which state is "the Islaamic cause" against, out of interest?

 

[squadops]

Well, we're in the U.K. thread so...

PMC's and/or mercs, I don't think there are any out fighting anywhere from Britain atm, could be I suppose. I have no doubt MI6 or whomever is used for this sort of thing has been involved in supporting rebel groups in Iraq, Syria etc. I'm convinced the U.S. has hand hands in many pies over all this.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Well, we're in the U.K. thread so...

PMC's and/or mercs, I don't think there are any out fighting anywhere from Britain atm, could be I suppose. I have no doubt MI6 or whomever is used for this sort of thing has been involved in supporting rebel groups in Iraq, Syria etc. I'm convinced the U.S. has hand hands in many pies over all this.

There are plenty of Americans involved in mercenary action just as there are plenty of Brits. They'll be a mix of races of course. Maybe even some Muslims?

 

[squadops]

Not in any great numbers anyway imo and I don't think they are falling for teachings against their origin.

 

[Dotini]

I had a friend who was a white mercenary in Africa for a time. He claimed to have killed people. Whatever the truth of that, he was certainly a whisky-swilling bigot with a taste for women, guns, cars, cigars and poker games. After his return, he became a union machinist for Boeing and developed a beer gut. Religion, or any sort of belief system for that matter, was the farthest thing from his mind, although for some reason he was an Anglophile.

 

[KSaiyu]

Perhaps inevitable import from the Middle East, the disgusting tradition of slavery rears its head:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...rning-domestic-workers-into-modern-day-slaves

And surprise surprise, there's often a sexual component too. Can't think why.

"UCL researchers also uncovered evidence of sexual abuse. One of the interviewees said she had tried to kill herself because of the harassment she suffered."

 

[Dotini]

Perhaps inevitable import from the Middle East, the disgusting tradition of slavery rears its head:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...rning-domestic-workers-into-modern-day-slaves

And surprise surprise, there's often a sexual component too. Can't think why.

"UCL researchers also uncovered evidence of sexual abuse. One of the interviewees said she had tried to kill herself because of the harassment she suffered."

Some Euro and African states have a since apologized for their role in the slave trade. I don't know that there has ever been an apology from Muslim states.

On American college campuses today, there is a renewed anti-rape movement as well a a vigorous anti-paternal movement.

 

[Scaff]

Perhaps inevitable import from the Middle East, the disgusting tradition of slavery rears its head:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...rning-domestic-workers-into-modern-day-slaves

And surprise surprise, there's often a sexual component too. Can't think why.

"UCL researchers also uncovered evidence of sexual abuse. One of the interviewees said she had tried to kill herself because of the harassment she suffered."

While the Middle East (and to a lesser degree India and Pakistan) are the main root of domestic slavery in the UK, they certainly are not the only forms.

The UK has an issue with slavery from many areas, in addition to the above we also have problems with agricultural and sexual slavery (the main roots of which are Eastern Europe and the Far East), its also not above those from the UK to be either victim or perpetrator.

Nor do I think this is limited to the UK by any means, however more info on what it involves and how people can help can be found here:

https://modernslavery.co.uk/who.html#case-study/1

 

[KSaiyu]

This is a very under-reported issue in our Country, and it was a field I wanted to go into due to my proximity working in West London (I'm still thinking of an elective to Qatar to work with construction workers involved in the World Cup).

 

[Dotini]

So slavery is still alive and well, particularly in Britain? Astonishing.

Another old-fashioned institution up for revival may be a kind of neo-feudalism. The division of the population into the very rich and the marginal with the middle class disappearing makes this a real possibility in the medium term, IMO. All it would take would be a black swan event such as a major war, famine, drought or mini ice age and those without substantial resources would be utterly dependent.

 

[Scaff]

So slavery is still alive and well, particularly in Britain? Astonishing.

Another old-fashioned institution up for revival may be a kind of neo-feudalism. The division of the population into the very rich and the marginal with the middle class disappearing makes this a real possibility in the medium term, IMO. All it would take would be a black swan event such as a major war, famine, drought or mini ice age and those without substantial resources would be utterly dependent.

Actually on a worldwide basis and on % of population the UK ranks 149th out of 167 countries (the US is at 145 - four places worse than the UK), so its not particularly in Britain at all.

http://www.globalslaveryindex.org/findings/

However any level of slavery is unacceptable, so until its at zero its a problem to be addressed.

While in the top ten worst offenders Muslim countries do feature heavily, the single most shocking is India, which is 5th in terms of % of population, but with its huge population has an estimated 14 million slaves, more than all of the other 9 in the top 10 combined!

 

[KSaiyu]

It's a part of my heritage I don't like - Sri Lanka is similar to India in terms of their views of women as slaves. It's not so bad for Sri Lankans who have emigrated, as opposed to other Asian countries

 

[Scaff]

It's a part of my heritage I don't like - Sri Lanka is similar to India in terms of their views of women as slaves. It's not so bad for Sri Lankans who have emigrated, as opposed to other Asian countries

Yep. My mother-in-law can remember having 'servants' in the house when she was a child in India, I often suspect that was a generous description.

 

[Dotini]

It's a part of my heritage I don't like - Sri Lanka is similar to India in terms of their views of women as slaves. It's not so bad for Sri Lankans who have emigrated, as opposed to other Asian countries

Question: How closely related are your views of women as slaves and paternalism? "Paternalism", whatever that really means, seems to an issue on US west coast college campuses and also within my own family. Cousin Karl really does believe women are inferior, and his daughter, a pre-med student at the University of Washington, is in a hotbed of anti-paternalism. How she resolves this is amusing.

 

[Scaff]

Question: How closely related are your views of women as slaves and paternalism? "Paternalism", whatever that really means, seems to an issue on US west coast college campuses and also within my own family. Cousin Karl really does believe women are inferior, and his daughter, a pre-med student at the University of Washington, is in a hotbed of anti-paternalism. How she resolves this is amusing.

That really does depend on how rigidly you define Paternalism and to what groups its then applied.

Off-topic but when looking for examples I came across the recent (2013) changes to getting a driving licence in Belgium. If you fail your test two times you are then barred from holding a learners licence (and therefore learning to drive) for three years; which is mind-numbingly stupid.