Britain - The Official Thread

[Lizard]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...abour-votes-a7757031.html?cmpid=facebook-post

If the Tories win then I have a feeling they will feel it is despite May not because of May and the plotting will begin.

Either way I see May's career as finished after this election. The scary thing is who takes over?

 

[Spurgy 777]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...abour-votes-a7757031.html?cmpid=facebook-post

If the Tories win then I have a feeling they will feel it is despite May not because of May and the plotting will begin.

Either way I see May's career as finished after this election. The scary thing is who takes over?

Wishful thinking on your part, if you were to look at the poll trackers, rather than clearly biased Independent articles that just pick out the most favourable polls for Labour, you would see most of them still put the Tories at about a 10 point lead.

Even if the Tories were to win by just two seats, it seems almost inconceivable that straight after winning an election she would step down and be replaced by an "unelected" leader, which would defeat the whole point of having this election in the first place.

 

[Zona]

I have a feeling the Tories are going to win this election because they will probably pull some strings to keep them in power.

 

[Lizard]

Wishful thinking on your part, if you were to look at the poll trackers, rather than clearly biased Independent articles that just pick out the most favourable polls for Labour, you would see most of them still put the Tories at about a 10 point lead.

Even if the Tories were to win by just two seats, it seems almost inconceivable that straight after winning an election she would step down and be replaced by an "unelected" leader, which would defeat the whole point of having this election in the first place.

Erm can you link said poll trackers?

 

[TenEightyOne]

it seems almost inconceivable that straight after winning an election she would step down and be replaced by an "unelected" leader, which would defeat the whole point of having this election in the first place.

I see that you put "unelected" in quotes... but the facts remain that no Prime Minister is ever elected to the role by the people and no Prime Minister is ever chosen from unelected sitters. Therefore none of that constitutes "the whole point of having this election in the first place". Some might argue that anybody who thinks that it is the whole point is sucking up media bull far more than the people they might be railing against.

 

[DG_Silva]

I would hypothesise that every Prime Minister, every Home Secretary and their shadow equivalents since Harold Wilson has held talks with the IRA and/or Sinn Fein.

It's just that they did it in secret so that's... alright?

There's a difference between secret talks to find a resolution and actively promoting the murder of people and sympathising with dead terrorists, saying it's a shame they died.

 

[Spurgy 777]

Erm can you link said poll trackers?

Yep, have a few. Even the Independents own poll tracker gives the Tories a lead of 13 points.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39856354

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/general-election-2017-polls-latest-odds-tracker/

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/2017-poll-tracker-general-election-10266121

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...election-2017-poll-tracker-who-is-in-the-lead

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...otes-lead-points-party-win-lose-a7749546.html

I see that you put "unelected" in quotes... but the facts remain that no Prime Minister is ever elected to the role by the people and no Prime Minister is ever chosen from unelected sitters. Therefore none of that constitutes "the whole point of having this election in the first place". Some might argue that anybody who thinks that it is the whole point is sucking up media bull far more than the people they might be railing against.

I know full well we don't elect a Prime Minister, but that didn't stop the other parties going on about it, maybe it was a bit of an exaggeration to say it was the whole point, but I wouldn't be surprised if they started up with the same arguments of the next leader needing a mandate and another election should be called.

 

[PzR Slim]

Paxman is such a dick. This could have been a genuinely enlightening couple of interviews. Instead it's him being an obnoxious, rude idiot to both of them.

 

[PeterJB]

May has received a very cold response from the audience.

 

[Lizard]

I know full well we don't elect a Prime Minister, but that didn't stop the other parties going on about it, maybe it was a bit of an exaggeration to say it was the whole point, but I wouldn't be surprised if they started up with the same arguments of the next leader needing a mandate and another election should be called.

Erm wasn't the whole point to give her a mandate on brexit and thus strengthen her bargaining position?

 

[PzR Slim]

May has received a very cold response from the audience.

Sounded like both had their fair share of supporters in the audience. Also easier when you don't have to defend your record. But that was all a bit pantomime. Don't think anyone will have changed their mind after watching that. Totally wasted opportunity. Hope Paxman doesn't get the gig again. Truly awful.

 

[Spurgy 777]

Erm wasn't the whole point to give her a mandate on brexit and thus strengthen her bargaining position?

Yes, and unless I got the wrong end of the stick, apparently she needed a mandate because she was "unelected". To take another article from your favorite newspaper;

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ollowing-theresa-may-coronation-a7130896.html

A few quotes in there from people in opposition parties calling for a general election, for example Tim Farron saying "With Theresa May’s coronation we need an early General Election. The Tories now have no mandate. Britain deserves better than this."

 

[TenEightyOne]

Yes, and unless I got the wrong end of the stick, apparently she needed a mandate because she was "unelected".

Which is polit-bollocks.

She needs to cement the Conservatives' improved position in Scotland and England rather than risk continuing with a house that will cause difficulties over the Brexit minutiae. It's political genius.

 

[Lizard]

your favorite newspaper;

Please stop BSing. I read The Guardian, The Straits Times, Asahi Shimbun, or The Japan Times. And yes the last 3 do comment on British politics sometimes. Also the BBC.

It seems I link one article and it is automatically my favourite paper.

And it doesn't matter about what the public feel. If Europe feels she has no mandate then her negotiating position is screwed.

 

[Lizard]

@Spurgy 777 I hate to break your heart but The Times is reporting a hung parliament.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...dicts-conservatives-will-lose-seats-02zfwl8lc

 

[Spurgy 777]

@Spurgy 777 I hate to break your heart but The Times is reporting a hung parliament.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...dicts-conservatives-will-lose-seats-02zfwl8lc

Firstly, I'm not sure why that would break my heart, think I've made it pretty clear I'm not exactly keen on the Tories, see below, I just think they're the only vaguely competent party. Second quote btw is my response to Famine saying the Tories are evil this election.

Well the only vaguely competent party are the Tories, so them?... Maybe? I don't know Tempted to spoil my ballot.

Exactly

As for your link, it again is only citing one poll (mainly because it's the first of its type, so it's understandable why they did). It also seems to be quite an unlikely scenario if we assume the poll trackers are accurate.

It would mean that the Tories would gain 7-8% of the vote since last election, Labour would gain about 4-5%, but the Tories would lose 20 seats and Labour would gain 30? It would also mean that the Tories would have pretty much the highest vote share in at least 30 years (44% compared to Blairs 43.2% in 1997) and not have a majority, which would be a surprising result.

 

[Famine]

So quick brain maths says that the six people at the debate, can only be voted for by around 280,000 people - that's 4 lots of 70,000, as Sturgeon and Wood do not have parliamentary seats, because they sit in the Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly respectively.

So this debate affects about two-thirds of a percent of the electorate.

 

[Touring Mars]

So quick brain maths says that the six people at the debate, can only be voted for by around 280,000 people - that's 4 lots of 70,000, as Sturgeon and Wood do not have parliamentary seats, because they sit in the Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly respectively.

So this debate affects about two-thirds of a percent of the electorate.

Not really - they are supposedly discussing party policy, not their suitability as an MP for their particular constituency.

Sturgeon is not there, rather it is Angus Robertson who is an MP at Westminster.

-

I'm (sort of) watching the 'debate' - so far Tim Farron is playing a blinder... the rest not so much. I can see why May has sent her bulldog Rudd in her stead though.... like Corbyn, she cannot handle being talked over, and that is happening a lot in this 7-person 'debate'.

 

[Famine]

Not really - they are supposedly discussing party policy, not their suitability as an MP for their particular constituency.

Sturgeon is not there, rather it is Angus Robertson who is an MP at Westminster.

I didn't realise that Rudd was there either, so that's 420k, or 0.85% of the electorate.

Regardless of what they're debating, we don't elect parties or PMs. We elect our representatives - and they're supposed to represent our interests to parliament to guide policy, not the other way round.


To me it all smacks of the ridiculous cult of personality we have now in UK politics. We had a leaflet through from our local Lib Dem candidate that just banged on about Corbyn. Oddly I was unaware Corbyn was a candidate for Teesside...

 

[PeterJB]

People view it like US Presidential elections, not realising we're not electing a President...

 

[Robin]

Tim Farron seems to want us to vote 'Bake Off'

 

[Touring Mars]

 

[jake2013guy]

"At the end of the day, I believe that Amber struggled to answer a seemingly simple question regarding Theresa May's whereabouts. I would have voted Paul Nuttall but Amber's inability to do so is more concerning and that is why I believe her to be the Weakest Link."

 

[Touring Mars]

A new YouGov poll puts Labour just 3 points behind the Tories...

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/05/31/voting-intention-conservatives-42-labour-39-30-31-/

I'm not sure if the poor old NHS could cope with a Labour win - so many people will laugh so hard that they could do themselves an injury.

If the unlikely does happen and the Tories are kicked out (possibly by a Labour/Lib Dem or Labour/SNP coalition) of No.10 next week, it will be the icing on the cake of one of the silliest periods in UK political history - firstly, the Tories win an unexpected overall majority on the strength of promising an in-out EU referendum; the (popular) PM backs Remain, though, and steps down when most of his supporters vote Leave. The Tories then appoint another minister who backed Remain to lead the party through the Brexit negotiations, but despite still holding an overall majority, she decides that it would be a good idea to hold a largely unnecessary election in order to increase the Tory majority (even though they already had an unexpected overall majority!), despite their leader having zero charisma and being unwilling to take part in national televised debates. Now, one week before the election and one of the UK's largest political pollsters have put Labour just three points behind the Tories, and elsewhere it is being reported that it is now much more likely that there will be a hung parliament. One could be mistaken for thinking that Theresa May doesn't actually want to win this election...

 

[Dotini]

A new YouGov poll puts Labour just 3 points behind the Tories...

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/05/31/voting-intention-conservatives-42-labour-39-30-31-/

I'm not sure if the poor old NHS could cope with a Labour win - so many people will laugh so hard that they could do themselves an injury.

If the unlikely does happen and the Tories are kicked out (possibly by a Labour/Lib Dem or Labour/SNP coalition) of No.10 next week, it will be the icing on the cake of one of the silliest periods in UK political history - firstly, the Tories win an unexpected overall majority on the strength of promising an in-out EU referendum; the (popular) PM backs Remain, though, and steps down when most of his supporters vote Leave. The Tories then appoint another minister who backed Remain to lead the party through the Brexit negotiations, but despite still holding an overall majority, she decides that it would be a good idea to hold a largely unnecessary election in order to increase the Tory majority (even though they already had an unexpected overall majority!), despite their leader having zero charisma and being unwilling to take part in national televised debates. Now, one week before the election and one of the UK's largest political pollsters have put Labour just three points behind the Tories, and elsewhere it is being reported that it is now much more likely that there will be a hung parliament. One could be mistaken for thinking that Theresa May doesn't actually want to win this election...

The situation you describe sounds fluid, liquid, inchoate, confused, even schizophrenic. A prescription for entertainment and fun if not clarity and resolution?

 

[Famine]

It's worth remembering though what the polls said for the 2015 General Election, Brexit and Trumpton (why did nobody make that joke during the US Presidential Election?).

I can't think of anything more ridiculous than a Labour victory though. Less than 12 months ago, 80% of his own MPs passed a vote of no confidence in Corbyn and two-thirds of his own shadow cabinet resigned. He had to go to court to get onto the leadership ballot as the incumbent because he didn't have enough nominations. Despite that he won, and some of the shadow cabinet skulked back again.

People are either voting Labour and backing a man whose closest work colleagues think doesn't have what it takes to lead them, never mind a country, or voting Labour for their own representatives when 80% of them put the knife into their own leader.

 

[UKMikey]

^My local MP is the shadow Chancellor. Pretty sure he didn't put the knife into his own leader. Guess I'm in the lucky 20%.

A hung parliament would be hilarious though (if I didn't live here).

In other news: politicians are self serving hypocrites.

 

[Pezzarinho17]

One could be mistaken for thinking that Theresa May doesn't actually want to win this election...

I remember when the general election was first announced, I said to my wife this is a win-win for Theresa May. At the time, the Tories were believed to be 20 points ahead so it almost seemed like she cannot lose. If the "unthinkable" happens though, it gets her out of doing any of those pesky Brexit negotiations...

---

I like having a look at the Newspaper headlines during my lunch break, I honestly don't know how people can't see how biased they all are to the Conservatives. Theresa May wouldn't attend the debate, and yet not 1 paper mentioned it. "Ambush" as poor old Amber was bullied by leaders, "BBC farce" as the crowd at the debate were so very obviously left wing, "Corbyn wants more migrant workers" - oh yes, don't miss a chance to attack Jeremy again... It worries me that there are going to people next week voting based on what they have seen in "the news"...

 

[TheCracker]

One could be mistaken for thinking that Theresa May doesn't actually want to win this election...

I remember when the general election was first announced, I said to my wife this is a win-win for Theresa May. At the time, the Tories were believed to be 20 points ahead so it almost seemed like she cannot lose. If the "unthinkable" happens though, it gets her out of doing any of those pesky Brexit negotiations...

I have read well informed social media commenters talking about the tories, or more accurately those with the power behind the tories, now wanting a Labour-led coalition to win the election. Knowing that being the government throughout the Brexit talks can only be a poisoned chalice. The Conservatives could then hold power for decades, the other parties involved would be toxic for a long time following Britain getting a rough deal out of leaving Europe.

 

[Hun200kmh]

@TheCracker I don't think the UK will leave the EU if under a coalition that includes the LibDems and/or the SNP. At least, not without a second referendum after whatever deal is reached. Things change fast, and the world is on the move. Many things happened since last year, many more will happen up to the end of the negotiating deadline.