Britain - The Official Thread

[Robin]

After looking all over half of Salisbury they have found the Novichok container... in the victims house It's a small bottle.


Will be interesting to see what they gleen from it.

 

[Biggles]

Great quote for today's Guardian:

Although Trump has often spoken fondly of Scotland, the feeling is certainly not mutual. In reality he is as popular as a can of new recipe Irn Bru. And as orange.

One of the more pathetic aspects of Trump's chronic narcissism is his need to believe everybody likes him. Even when he openly insults & denigrates people, he wants to believe they like him when, in reality, they detest him.

 

[mirial]

Utter rubbish. In the UK there was meltdown from the lefter edges of the (then) centre-left government around the time of the War on Terror. The actions have been condemned since the by antagonists of all persuasions. Take those blinkers off!

The MSM in the last few years certainly has made a good job of making the strongmen of the Middle East look very bad to downplay the carnage initiated by the West to the masses. But that's another topic not relevant to this thread.

US intelligence suggests otherwise

You got a source on that? Not that it has anything at all to do with politics.

Apart from what the papers report, just look at the differences in physogs and physiques over time.

 

[UKMikey]

The MSM in the last few years certainly has made a good job of making the strongmen of the Middle East look very bad to downplay the carnage initiated by the West to the masses. But that's another topic not relevant to this thread

That doesn't really address @TenEightyOne's point though. There was a huge Stop The War movement going on even from before the invasion so your attempt to make the left complicit in the war doesn't really ring true to me.

Apart from what the papers report, just look at the differences in physogs and physiques over time.

What cause would affect British male testosterone levels uniquely while sparing the US where there are presumably more people who like Trump than over here? Presumably your outlandish reasoning also calls for a blip over there while Obama was in power.

 

[TexRex]

One of the more pathetic aspects of Trump's chronic narcissism is his need to believe everybody likes him. Even when he openly insults & denigrates people, he wants to believe they like him when, in reality, they detest him.

"You would keep such remarks to yourself if he was someone whose views you share ."

Or something like that...

 

[Dotini]

One of the more pathetic aspects of Trump's chronic narcissism is his need to believe everybody likes him. Even when he openly insults & denigrates people, he wants to believe they like him when, in reality, they detest him.

Actually, I think his narcissism, which is real, is more about keeping people in deep doubt as to what he truly does want and intend. I think it follows more from the teachings of Sun Tzu and Machiavelli than from those of Jesus, who truly wanted people to love him. If Donald was a shoeless, wandering prophet, his efforts/narcissisms would indeed be pathetic. Be since he is an elected president and putative leader of the free world, his efforts are much more portentous.

 

[baldgye]

Actually, I think his narcissism, which is real, is more about keeping people in deep doubt as to what he truly does want and intend. I think it follows more from the teachings of Sun Tzu and Machiavelli than from those of Jesus, who truly wanted people to love him. If Donald was a shoeless, wandering prophet, his efforts/narcissisms would indeed be pathetic. Be since he is an elected president and putative leader of the free world, his efforts are much more portentous.

Hahaha fair cop that’s pretty funny

 

[TexRex]

Actually, I think his narcissism, which is real, is more about keeping people in deep doubt as to what he truly does want and intend. I think it follows more from the teachings of Sun Tzu and Machiavelli than from those of Jesus, who truly wanted people to love him. If Donald was a shoeless, wandering prophet, his efforts/narcissisms would indeed be pathetic. Be since he is an elected president and putative leader of the free world, his efforts are much more portentous.

 

[mirial]

That doesn't really address @TenEightyOne's point though. There was a huge Stop The War movement going on even from before the invasion so your attempt to make the left complicit in the war doesn't really ring true to me.

What cause would affect British male testosterone levels uniquely while sparing the US where there are presumably more people who like Trump than over here? Presumably your outlandish reasoning also calls for a blip over there while Obama was in power.

I know there was a huge anti-war movement before the invasions. I was thinking more about the uprisings under Obama's watch.

I just think white American men have always been generally more masculine than white British men. Since Obama must have had a significant percentage of black voters, maybe that swung it to the left.

Apart from that, without digging up statistics, I'd say a significant percentage of people in the US still go to church, particularly Republicans, relative to the UK. This tends to maintain traditional values, a patriarchal culture and keeps family units together, so I think the US generally has always been more to the right than we have.

 

[UKMikey]

I just think white American men have always been generally more masculine than white British men.

It could be a class/education thing.

Every man I spoke to while researching this article mentions a generational divide – either by contrasting themselves to a male relative or by contrasting now to a time before. When I asked male co-workers for input on the topic, (American) Mike Barry responded: “Historically in America, I don’t really think there was even an option for men to view themselves as not masculine. You were either masculine, or not masculine enough, which was a problem.”

Another (British) colleague, Oliver Laughland, thinks masculinity is not a fixed concept since it’s “split by class, culture, location and ethnicity, so it’s very difficult to describe just how ‘masculine’ you are”.

But Mike and Oliver are middle-class men, and that may well affect their attitudes to gender. Because while notions of “masculinity” are becoming more fluid for some, I’m reminded by Andrew Reiner that that’s not necessarily the case for white working-class men in the US. Reiner teaches a course titled “Real Men Smile: The Changing Face of Masculinity” at Towson University in Maryland. He describes the gap in masculine identity between upper- and working-class Americans as “a real chasm”.

Reiner goes further than that: if you can understand what masculinity means to white working-class Americans, you can start to understand why Donald Trump is now the Republican presidential nominee – “It’s not surprising given the way he’s talking and the things he’s saying that he’s resonating.”

American men with less formal education have higher unemployment and, when they can get work, receive lower wages. In the cookie-cutter stereotype of an American family, a woman might have a job (increasingly she will), but a man who stays at home? Useless. “They’re scared basically,” Reiner explains. “And, as a lot of men do when they’re scared, they’re overcompensating with hyper-masculine behaviour.” Trump’s behaviour – emotionally unexpressive, unapologetic and self-assured – all conforms to the archetypal “real man”.

 

[baldgye]

I just think white American men have always been generally more masculine than white British men.

Totally has nothing to do with insecurities

 

[TexRex]

It could be a class/education thing.

And if I think about it, had I attended a Catholic boarding school where my knuckles were rapped by nuns with rulers multiple times a day whenever I projected any kind of masculinity, in addition to never blaspheming as an adult (something I do openly and regularly), I'd probably have a nice pair of tits.

 

[Biggles]

since he is an elected president and putative leader of the free world, his efforts are much more portentous.

Sadly, I would agree with this. Before Trump ran for office I remember someone remarking in an online discussion that people who disliked him were "jealous of his success". I thought this was a ridiculous statement - I had no desire at all to be like Trump. I considered him a contemptible individual - a parody of a successful human being.

Since he became President I have been forced to re-evaluate my view of Trump. I still think he is a contemptible individual ... & it's not because of his political stance, it's because of who he is, because of everything (almost) that comes out of his mouth, his weird, almost child-like self-obsession & narcissism. However, his personality is not longer simply pathetic, as he's now someone whose political policies & personal statements are having a profound impact on the US & the rest of the world.

In my view, Trump epitomizes the absolute worst qualities of the US. I am looking forward to the day that the majority of Americans will realize this & unambiguously repudiate his abusive & divisive personality & policies.

 

[Imari]

Actually, I think his narcissism, which is real, is more about keeping people in deep doubt as to what he truly does want and intend.

It certainly has that effect. I think the question is whether it's an intentionally cultivated mannerism or whether it's innate. Basically, could he not be a massive narcissist if he wanted to for a day?

I suspect not. Fundamentally his actions so far aren't really that far away from what previous administrations have undertaken in many ways. But as with everything modern, it's 90% perception. As a massive narcissist, he portrays everything he does in a way that seems quite damaging to America.

I just think white American men have always been generally more masculine than white British men.

Depends what you mean by masculine. The stereotypical American masculinity is more the self-sufficient cowboy independent loner type, a Bruce Willis. The stereotypical UK masculinity is more the well-mannered intelligent gentleman type, a Buttercup Cabbagepatch. Both are totally valid forms of masculinity, but the action hero type tends to get pushed more in media like movies and TV.

That you feel that American men are more masculine just shows what form of masculinity most appeals to you. It's not the only way, though.

 

[baldgye]

Not my work but this is hilarious

 

[BobK]

Not my work but this is hilarious

Why is it hilarious?

 

[baldgye]

Why is it hilarious?

The image on the left is Peers Morgan behind Donald Trump, the image on the right is from The Office.
Peers appears to be mirroring Gareth and his affection for David (seated).

 

[Johnnypenso]

The image on the left is Peers Morgan behind Donald Trump, the image on the right is from The Office.
Peers appears to be mirroring Gareth and his affection for David (seated).

I'm all in for a good meme or joke but the only similarity in those pictures is that one guy is behind the other guy. Not exactly funny.

 

[BobK]

The image on the left is Peers Morgan behind Donald Trump, the image on the right is from The Office.
Peers appears to be mirroring Gareth and his affection for David (seated).

Okay. So a picture of one man standing behind a seated man is hilarious? Okay, got it. Strange, though, I've see dozens if not hundreds of similar pictures and never thought any of them were humorous. Nor had I come across anyone else who thought a similar composition was funny.

 

[baldgye]

Okay. So a picture of one man standing behind a seated man is hilarious? Okay, got it. Strange, though, I've see dozens if not hundreds of similar pictures and never thought any of them were humorous. Nor had I come across anyone else who thought a similar composition was funny.

Maybe it would have helped if you had watched The Office *shrugs*

 

[TexRex]

Maybe it would have helped if you had watched The Office *shrugs*

For what it's worth, I did and I still thought the image a bit forced.

But hey, different strokes and all that...

👍

 

[UKMikey]

But hey, different strokes and all that...

 

[baldgye]

Donal Trump told May to sue the EU. His genius knows no bounds!!

 

[mirial]

Totally has nothing to do with insecurities

No insecurity, why suggest such a thing?

It could be a class/education thing.

Indeed among lower classes, a necessary evil for men to keep their frame and maintain sexual attraction to women and respect amongst other men within their circles. But it's funny as society has become more based, that many middle-class men feel the need to adopt PUA tactics which appeal to the female hindbrain.

Depends what you mean by masculine. The stereotypical American masculinity is more the self-sufficient cowboy independent loner type, a Bruce Willis. The stereotypical UK masculinity is more the well-mannered intelligent gentleman type, a Buttercup Cabbagepatch. Both are totally valid forms of masculinity, but the action hero type tends to get pushed more in media like movies and TV.

That you feel that American men are more masculine just shows what form of masculinity most appeals to you. It's not the only way, though.

I was thinking more about movies from the past (made in the 50s, 60s,70s and 80s) which always had the inevitable gun fight or punch up that obviously appealed to a huge percentage of the US male audience and a smaller UK one; I think these films appeal to men that just enjoy watching or fighting, all indicators of excess T perhaps and hark back to America's historical past.

I never thought Cabbagepatch was the epitome of English or British masculinity. Sean Connery, Richard Burton or Richard Harris much more so.

As for Trump's visit, I'm actually embarrassed to be living in a country that has had vast numbers of people up and down the land exhibiting so much hate towards a man who is here to help us. He will go back thinking "is this the country we really helped in the Second World War?. What a bunch of self-pitying, angry lot the British have become, WTF is their problem?".

Most of the protestors I bet were well educated, intelligent and have arms and legs; why don't they just take stock of the fact that they are living in the West and just focus on making the most of their capabilities and earn decent money with their intelligence, and find things that make them happier, because at the end of the day, we've never had it so good.

 

[baldgye]

As for Trump's visit, I'm actually embarrassed to be living in a country that has had vast numbers of people up and down the land exhibiting so much hate towards a man who is here to help us. He will go back thinking "is this the country we really helped in the Second World War?. What a bunch of self-pitying, angry lot the British have become, WTF is their problem?".

Probably that they don’t want a sexist, racist, lying, angry billionaire in the U.K.?

 

[UKMikey]

But it's funny as society has become more based, that many middle-class men feel the need to adopt PUA tactics which appeal to the female hindbrain.

I don't know how widespread PUA culture is amongst the British middle class but you'd think these are the sort of people who would worship the pussygrabber-in-chief, not protest against him. Sounds like another non-sequitur to me.

He will go back thinking "is this the country we really helped in the Second World War?. What a bunch of self-pitying, angry lot the British have become, WTF is their problem?".

I'm sure he will as it seems to me that his self-interest exceeds his self-awareness. As @Touring Mars pointed out earlier in this thread, far from "only wanting to help us" it seems he's intent on making things as difficult as possible for us to reach a trade deal which'd make any sycophancy towards him somewhat misplaced, I would've thought.

 

[mirial]

Probably that they don’t want a sexist, racist, lying, angry billionaire in the U.K.?

That's probably it, but the overwhelming turn-outs, combined with the Mayor's permission to launch caricature balloons will have suggested to him that he is very unpopular in the UK, but I'm willing to bet that he isn't as unpopular in the UK as has been made out in the last few days; the Brexit votes would probably more closely align with his real popularity.

I don't know how widespread PUA culture is amongst the British middle class but you'd think these are the sort of people who would worship the pussygrabber-in-chief, not protest against him. Sounds like another non-sequitur to me.

I only mentioned PUA as an example of an adopted tactic for middle class men that generally comes naturally to working class men. Indeed, those middle-class men that have may adopted PUA (a tiny percentage of nice guys learning to bad boys) would most likely be in favour of Trump, whilst most of the protesters are probably disgusted at PUA tactics.

I'm sure he will as it seems to me that his self-interest exceeds his self-awareness. As @Touring Mars pointed out earlier in this thread, far from "only wanting to help us" it seems he's intent on making things as difficult as possible for us to reach a trade deal which'd make any sycophancy towards him somewhat misplaced, I would've thought.

I would have thought a warm reception would have been far better than a cold one, even if he inevitably has US interests at heart. Britain isn't really in favour with anybody at the moment.

 

[baldgye]

That's probably it, but the overwhelming turn-outs, combined with the Mayor's permission to launch caricature balloons will have suggested to him that he is very unpopular in the UK, but I'm willing to bet that he isn't as unpopular in the UK as has been made out in the last few days; the Brexit votes would probably more closely align with his real popularity.

The mayor only gave permission after a petition was launched.
I imagine he’s as unpopular with the British people as the press is suggesting.

I’m not sure how you’ve come to that conclusion though, but then I’m also not sure why you spout silliness about masculinity.

 

[UKMikey]

I only mentioned PUA as an example of an adopted tactic for middle class men that generally comes naturally to working class men.

Do you have any figures to support that assumption? Even if there are more working class men in relationships in the UK, it doesn't mean that a greater percentage of them are happily married.

Men from poor backgrounds are twice as likely to be single in their early 40s than those from rich families, research suggests

I imagine he’s as unpopular with the British people as the press is suggesting

I hope you missed out a word or two there. I'd be surprised if people were buying into the narrative that Khan engineered the anti-Trump protests when as far as I can see, he's only tried to defend himself against the President's disproportionate verbal attacks.

 

[baldgye]

I hope you missed out a word or two there. I'd be surprised if people were buying into the narrative that Khan engineered the anti-Trump protests when as far as I can see, he's only tried to defend himself against the President's disproportionate verbal attacks.

Like I said, Khan only gave the go ahead after the petition was successfully launched. Khan didn’t engineer anything, he just ok’d it because the people of London wanted it and it didn’t cause any security issues.