Britain - The Official Thread

[kennylmao]

I'm not sure where the rape laws are lax in the UK, this was a very complex case involving youngsters from incredibly complex backgrounds. The man was punished appropriately, I think, and there was no suggestion in court that he was one of the rapists. The Mirror is a very low-brow shock-tabloid and this is pretty much par for their standards of reporting.


What IS true is that there seems to have been an endemic, systemic failure in Britain to give credibility to the sexual abuse of young people, there's even a strong suggestion that figures in high authority may have been involved both in Rotherham and beyond.

The link said his (Umar) crime was sexual activity with a child. I don't think children can consent. Nonetheless, must be cultural differences then as I personally do not think 4 1/2, cut to 3 1/2, years of jail time is sufficient for the crime.

Also, noted on The Mirror.

 

[Dotini]

What IS true is that there seems to have been an endemic, systemic failure in Britain to give credibility to the sexual abuse of young people, there's even a strong suggestion that figures in high authority may have been involved both in Rotherham and beyond.

There has has been a rapid change in culture. Until VERY RECENTLY, it has been standard operating procedure for alpha males and the high born to "have their way" with the chicks and the hens. Too many of these cocksmen are still alive and in positions of power to have sweeping investigations and gaolings, I'd guess.

 

[TenEightyOne]

There has has been a rapid change in culture. Until VERY RECENTLY, it has been standard operating procedure for alpha males and the high born to "have their way" with the chicks and the hens. Too many of these cocksmen are still alive and in positions of power to have sweeping investigations and gaolings, I'd guess.

I think you're right*, the abuse of social power is widespread throughout life and we see it at its worst when the holders of power desire relationships with youngsters. And it happens, sadly.

My concern in the case noted above is that one would think that it was exclusively these 6 men at the heart of it; as Asians with proven criminal intent they're a great target for the shock-jocks. Sadly that means everyone's watching a very small facet of the overall situation. My other concern is that power protects itself, I suspect we may never know the full truth of what's happened in many cases. All we can hope is that heightened awareness makes it much more difficult for these crimes to be perpetrated.

The link said his (Umar) crime was sexual activity with a child. I don't think children can consent. Nonetheless, must be cultural differences then as I personally do not think 4 1/2, cut to 3 1/2, years of jail time is sufficient for the crime.

You said he was a multiple child-rapist;

> rape countless children
> serve 3 1/2 years jail
> get out of country
Maybe there's a cultural difference between...in the perception of child rape because I can't comprehend what I'm reading. Are child rape laws that lax in Britain?

He was convicted of sexual activity with a child. We don't know what activity but we know it wasn't penetrative rape. Perhaps the girl remained clothed and he held her breasts in a sexual way? That would be sexual activity with a child, no? I'm not condoning his actions but trying to inform the debate with some sense.


* Just this once, m'kay?

 

[Roger the Horse]

It's true. We need to focus on the fact that sexual abuse is currently pandemic, not only of children but also of grown women and men (with a noticeable bias towards it occurring to women). The way that the media reports sex crimes makes it sound like there are a few isolated cases of people in power (+whoever the scapegoat minority of the week is) abusing their positions and committing horrible acts upon children, when in reality a significant minority of the population are victims of abuse.

We must remember that for every TV presenter or Politician or dodgy gang of conveniently foreign individuals there are countless others whose cases we never hear about in the media, and who never see justice served for the crimes committed against them.

It frustrates me the extent to which we focus on specific cases of sexual violence and abuse, as in reality it just hides the bigger picture.

 

[Dotini]

It's true. We need to focus on the fact that sexual abuse is currently pandemic, not only of children but also of grown women and men (with a noticeable bias towards it occurring to women). The way that the media reports sex crimes makes it sound like there are a few isolated cases of people in power (+whoever the scapegoat minority of the week is) abusing their positions and committing horrible acts upon children, when in reality a significant minority of the population are victims of abuse.

We must remember that for every TV presenter or Politician or dodgy gang of conveniently foreign individuals there are countless others whose cases we never hear about in the media, and who never see justice served for the crimes committed against them.

It frustrates me the extent to which we focus on specific cases of sexual violence and abuse, as in reality it just hides the bigger picture.

But surely we simply cannot put all the men (those randy billy goats) in gaol, simply because the culture has shifted under their feet!

 

[kennylmao]

You said he was a multiple child-rapist;

He was convicted of sexual activity with a child. We don't know what activity but we know it wasn't penetrative rape. Perhaps the girl remained clothed and he held her breasts in a sexual way? That would be sexual activity with a child, no? I'm not condoning his actions but trying to inform the debate with some sense.

It seems the Mirror has got me on that, my bad.

lol, words and their definitions. So, he was charged as a chile molestor then. Anyways, I do not wish to delve deeper, I rest my case.

 

[Roger the Horse]

But surely we simply cannot put all the men (those randy billy goats) in gaol, simply because the culture has shifted under their feet!

I never suggested that. I suggested that we need to stop using sexual abuse as some sort of political football and start doing what we can to stop sexual violence from happening and help those who have been victims of it. This begins with education and awareness amongst the general population.

 

[TenEightyOne]

But surely we simply cannot put all the men (those randy billy goats) in gaol, simply because the culture has shifted under their feet!

And women, don't forget. You're falling for the same blind as the media. And has the culture shifted or is it simply being revealed as-is?

 

[Dotini]

And women, don't forget. You're falling for the same blind as the media. And has the culture shifted or is it simply being revealed as-is?

Part of the culture has shifted. How it all divides up, I'm not sure.

 

[Dennisch]

For the Brits.

Spread this as much as possible, Amsterdam already has 3 confirmed death, all Brits and several who barely survived.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I was reading about this, the cases have been cropping up for about a year apparently... the Dutch polishmansh said "We think he doesn't know what he's selling". That makes it all the weirder given the differences in value.

 

[Dennisch]

I was reading about this, the cases have been cropping up for about a year apparently... the Dutch polishmansh said "We think he doesn't know what he's selling". That makes it all the weirder given the differences in value.

And that's what confusing the coppers here. White Heroine is far more expensive than cocaine. Just shows how dumb some dealers actually are.

 

[TenEightyOne]

And that's what confusing the coppers here. White Heroine is far more expensive than cocaine. Just shows how dumb some dealers actually are.

More likely the kid/relative of someone who's stealing from a stash. The irregularity suggests it hasn't all been sold in one go. Very odd.

 

[Dennisch]

More likely the kid/relative of someone who's stealing from a stash. The irregularity suggests it hasn't all been sold in one go. Very odd.

No, I am pretty confident that it's just the dealers being stupid. I knew plenty of them who never touched the stuff themselves and thus never know what they are actually selling.

 

[TenEightyOne]

This story's just cropped up concerning the ever-growing number of allegations about a paedophilic "organisation" in the highest of British offices. Now there are allegations of abuse within Buckingham Palace and Balmoral Castle. The same names of the politically powerful seem to keep revolving in the story too, particularly former Ambassador Sir Peter Haynon, a known paedophile.

This is from the Mirror so some caution is needed. This is a biggie though, they must feel it's got some source-ability. Source.

 

[Jay.]

Change of topic for this one...

Black Friday.

Yeah I know it's now been and gone, my gripe is that the UK business industries don't seem to have grasped the concept of what 'Black Friday' actually is, and how significant it can be in the US and other places in the run up to the holiday season.
I started my Christmas shopping several weeks ago, but there are many things I still need to get. Some of the more expensive items I've been checking out for months, watching the prices, trying to find the best deals for the best items within my budget. This year they include tablets, the latest iPhones, TVs and satnavs. Three daughters between 16 and 19 is bloody expensive. Even with a budget this year of roughly £1500 for the three of them, I was still able to keep my options open to some of the more expensive items in the ranges.
Anyway although a few of the deals differ slightly, many prices have been the same for the last few months. So I thought I'd see what happened on Black Friday.

All the leading stores started flagging their POS getting everybody hyped for Black Friday sales and discounts....

HUGE disappointment.

You could find a handful of items out of several thousand available that were reduced, if you were lucky.
Everything I was looking for then, I am still looking for now. NONE of the items I was looking for had been reduced in price from the week before. And they are STILL the same price now.
No doubt they will put the prices up again next week, then drop them back to the normal price after Christmas and call it the New Year sale.

So... Black Friday in the UK? Yeah, wasn't worth the wait.
Might emmigrate to the US in 2015, just to catch their sales next year.

 

[Liquid]

I'd rather a tacky tradition, which functions as a wafer thin excuse for people to ruckus in Asda, stayed in North America. We have our own traditions; this is what Boxing Day and New Year sales are for.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Change of topic for this one...

Black Friday.

Yeah I know it's now been and gone, my gripe is that the UK business industries don't seem to have grasped the concept of what 'Black Friday' actually is, and how significant it can be in the US and other places in the run up to the holiday season.
I started my Christmas shopping several weeks ago, but there are many things I still need to get. Some of the more expensive items I've been checking out for months, watching the prices, trying to find the best deals for the best items within my budget. This year they include tablets, the latest iPhones, TVs and satnavs. Three daughters between 16 and 19 is bloody expensive. Even with a budget this year of roughly £1500 for the three of them, I was still able to keep my options open to some of the more expensive items in the ranges.
Anyway although a few of the deals differ slightly, many prices have been the same for the last few months. So I thought I'd see what happened on Black Friday.

All the leading stores started flagging their POS getting everybody hyped for Black Friday sales and discounts....

HUGE disappointment.

You could find a handful of items out of several thousand available that were reduced, if you were lucky.
Everything I was looking for then, I am still looking for now. NONE of the items I was looking for had been reduced in price from the week before. And they are STILL the same price now.
No doubt they will put the prices up again next week, then drop them back to the normal price after Christmas and call it the New Year sale.

So... Black Friday in the UK? Yeah, wasn't worth the wait.
Might emmigrate to the US in 2015, just to catch their sales next year.

There was a time when people saw the value in expensive luxury items and therefore didn't mind paying the going rate.

Can't speak for the "leading stores" but during my time selling expensive electronic goods we needed to capitalise on the Christmas rush to off-set the dire summer months when people were spending money on holidays and the like, and the idea of selling things off cheap in the run up to christmas was bonkers. Post christmas sales made sense becuase we needed to shift any excess stock we'd ordered before christmas (in order to try and gain a better price from the manufacturer or distributor), before payment for all the christmas deliveries was due.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I'd rather a tacky tradition which functions as a wafer thin excuse for people to ruckus in Asda stayed in North America. We have our own traditions; this is what Boxing Day and New Year sales are for.

I didn't even realise we were having a "Black Friday" (or really what one even was) until I saw the disgusting behaviour of looters shoppers on the news the following day.

Then there was a "Cyber Monday" apparently, I missed that too

 

[Jay.]

There was a time when people saw the value in expensive luxury items and therefore didn't mind paying the going rate.

Can't speak for the "leading stores" but during my time selling expensive electronic goods we needed to capitalise on the Christmas rush to off-set the dire summer months when people were spending money on holidays and the like, and the idea of selling things off cheap in the run up to christmas was bonkers. Post christmas sales made sense becuase we needed to shift any excess stock we'd ordered before christmas (in order to try and gain a better price from the manufacturer or distributor), before payment for all the christmas deliveries was due.

I guess these stores now have more leverage on the prices they charge, seeing as people in the UK are paying less for their holidays each year, and less families are actually taking holidays too.

I didn't even realise we were having a "Black Friday" (or really what one even was) until I saw the disgusting behaviour of looters shoppers on the news the following day.

Then there was a "Cyber Monday" apparently, I missed that too

Apparently it's only been recognised by retail businesses in the UK over the last 2-3 years, even though it's been a popular date in the US since the 60's.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I guess these stores now have more leverage on the prices they charge, seeing as people in the UK are paying less for their holidays each year, and less families are actually taking holidays too.

I'm not sure what the drivers behind it are. It's probably a generational thing, plus the relatively tight stranglehold a few of the main players have on the market.

Makes me kind of sad whatever the cause. I spent a good portion of my life selling good quality HiFi to adults that wanted to spend x for something that would last them y years. These days kids expect luxury items that cost hundreds of pounds to be replaced once every couple of years. Younger people seem to be disassociating cost from value, and just going after 'trendy' things... this is no new thing I'm sure... but given the cost and capability of the items in question it seems crazy for them to have such a relatively short lifespan. I listen to some of the younger guys chatting at work about PS4 games, they'll spend half an hour at lunch complaining that there's a £6 difference in the price of a game from one store to then next, citing the more expensive as a "****** rip-off"... whilst chowing down on a £5 subway sandwich... HUH?!? because spending £45 for something that will probably give hundreds of hours of use, and maybe having to pay an extra £6 is sooooooo much of a big deal compared to paying £5 for a sandwich that will have been digested, crapped out and flushed down the toilet within 24 hours. And when did it become the case that everything that was at standard retail price became a rip-off?? I call it the difference between being a viable long-term business, and closing down - at least based on my experience.

The more people want something, the less they seem to be prepared to pay for it.

Rant over.

 

[TenEightyOne]

The BBC are taking an unusually strong line in front-page editorial comment today;

 

[PeterJB]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-30293964?SThisFB?SThisFB

Considering 2016-2017 is the year I'll hopefully be doing my Master's this has come just in time!

 

[TenEightyOne]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-30293964?SThisFB?SThisFB

Considering 2016-2017 is the year I'll hopefully be doing my Master's this has come just in time!

Your link's gone horribly wrong, I hope the 10k Masters Loan plan doesn't...

In other parliamentary financials;

Anybody who thinks that the UK parliament are nothing but a collection of peculiar, shouty schoolchildren should watch clip on the following link.

It'll prove you right.

For those who don't know the characters, look out for Ed Milliband (currently leader of the opposition and the left's Prime Ministerial candidate for the General Election, we presume). He's seated behind Balls (he likes to tell us) and gurns away like an discomforting puppet all the way through. The character speaking is Balls himself.

The short haired shifty-looking boy sitting opposite is Gideon Osborne (who now uses "George"). He looks very upset, which is always nice. He's also the chancellor of the exchequer, which is a bit less nice. But performs well in Lower VIth chess, rugger not his forte.

Link, but don't watch until you've finished your prep.

EDIT: Miliband and Balls

And Gideon Osborne with the "Ginger Rodent" to one side hastily looking at the figures while at his other shoulder His Mate Dave thinks of Barbados.

 

[TRGTspecialist]

Call me a cynic but it was all political point scoring at its best, as usual. Just a few months away from election and George Osbot finds in his back pocket a tax cut for 98% of the population (despite the fact public spending will be further reduced)? Very convenient.

Meanwhile, Ed "Ed Balls" Balls complains the Tories targets are in tatters. But hang on, all through this parliament he's been banging on about them cutting 'too hard and too fast' to reduce the deficit and this is disastrous. But when Georgebot misses his targets - ie not cutting as hard or as fast - this is apparently also disastrous. Which is it Ed?

Playground stuff indeed........

 

[Scaff]

Call me a cynic but it was all political point scoring at its best, as usual. Just a few months away from election and George Osbot finds in his back pocket a tax cut for 98% of the population (despite the fact public spending will be further reduced)? Very convenient.

Its a tax cut for 98% of the people who are buying a house, rather than 98% of the population (or even 98% of the tax paying population).

Meanwhile, Ed "Ed Balls" Balls complains the Tories targets are in tatters. But hang on, all through this parliament he's been banging on about them cutting 'too hard and too fast' to reduce the deficit and this is disastrous. But when Georgebot misses his targets - ie not cutting as hard or as fast - this is apparently also disastrous. Which is it Ed?

Playground stuff indeed........

You don't just reduce a deficit with cuts, you have to ensure that tax receipts are either level (in line with inflation) or increasing. You can make all the cuts you like, but if tax receipts drop by a greater degree (as they have) then you don't reduce the deficit.

Arguably by cutting hard and fast you risk reducing public sector wages in real terms, which both increases the demand on welfare and reduces spending, it will reduce tax receipts (along with many other factors).

I actually think its perfectly fair to hold a politician to account for a claim they made, the Tories asked (at the last election) to be judged on exactly that. Many people (not just the opposition) said it would/might not work, the Tories (and Gideon/George) promised it would and asked to be judged on just that (oddly a promise they have since removed from their website).

Besides I have a personal beef with Gideon/George, he got rid of a perfectly good first name (mine) to make his life easier. Wuss.

 

[Liquid]

@Scaff You are both Gideons? Tangentially, the only other Gideon I had ever come across apart from Osbot was Gideon Pryke, Rik Mayall's swuave but likeable DI guest spot on Jonathan Creek.

 

[TenEightyOne]

@Scaff You are both Gideons? Tangentially, the only other Gideon I had ever come across apart from Osbot was Gideon Pryke, Rik Mayall's swuave but likeable DI guest spot on Jonathan Creek.

You don't stay in a lot of hotels then?

 

[Liquid]

You don't stay in a lot of hotels then?

Sadly not, the lifestyle I lead means I have only stayed in travel taverns equidistant between London and Norwich.

 

[Scaff]

@Scaff You are both Gideons? Tangentially, the only other Gideon I had ever come across apart from Osbot was Gideon Pryke, Rik Mayall's swuave but likeable DI guest spot on Jonathan Creek.

Indeed I am.

Perfectly good name that 'George' was clearly not man enough for.