<- BTCC-7 -> Ian_83 is the Champion!Finished 

  • Thread starter rolo912011
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You automatically get entered into the Drivers' when you sign up.

You can't be a Team and Independent at the same time
  • if you want to score Team points, find a team-mate - then you can't score Independent points
  • if you want to be an Independent, then you'll get Independent points but not Team
Manufacturers' is also automatic.

Jack Sears Trophy depends on whether or not you qualify.
 
rolo912011
You automatically get entered into the Drivers' when you sign up.

You can't be a Team and Independent at the same time
  • if you want to score Team points, find a team-mate - then you can't score Independent points
  • if you want to be an Independent, then you'll get Independent points but not Team
Manufacturers' is also automatic.

Jack Sears Trophy depends on whether or not you qualify.
Click to expand...
I'm going to register to Independent championship since my team does not have members yet
 
rolo912011
OK. This is how it will work on Thursday 6th at Spa. (Complete information available in OP).

Yes, as you say, the following drivers are locked in for Round 1 at Spa (only) since they are the 10 highest finishers in the Megane Championship who came back for this - @rolo912011 @AudiMan2011 @SkengD @quade420 @neljack @DirtyNurbKing58 @CptMadBean @azidahaka @xflow1390 @powwa25. This means they are guaranteed a start in the two Main Races that night. The stewards (myself, skeng, quade and neljack) will however always be locked-in every week, because no stewards = no series.

That means all of the remaining entrants, like yourself, (including reserves if there's space) have to run the Pre-Qualifying event. This kicks off at 7pm GMT, and consists of a 7-minute Qualifying session followed by a half-distance race (so at Spa, since the Main Races are 8 laps, the Pre-Q race will be 4 laps - the Pre-Q race does not have a pit window). If all of the 10 locked-in drivers show up (and I need the locked-in guys to let me know if they're not attending), then that leaves 6 spaces available, so the top 6 finishers in the Pre-Q race will qualify for the Main Races. Drivers who fail to qualify (i.e. finish 7th downwards) will score points for the Jack Sears Trophy and will then leave the lounge. If a top-10 guy doesn't come then there'll be 7 Q spots, and so on.

Main Race drivers are not allowed to be in the lounge during Pre-Q (especially if there isn't room for them, and stewards will have priority on that), and will be asked to enter the lounge by PSN message once Pre-Q is over. This will happen at around 7.30pm GMT, and then the races will run to the schedule described in the OP. Finish times will be around the same as every other season, so hopefully before 9pm GMT. There's only two main races this season instead of three to accommodate the Pre-Q.

Should a locked-in driver for Spa not be in the Top 10 in the Drivers' Championship after Spa (and they're not a steward), then they lose their locked-in place in favour of the guy who's ahead of them. So let's say you were 10th in the series after Spa then you'd get locked-in privilege. Then the same thing happens again at Silverstone. I'll make it clear who's where each week. If you miss a round and fall out of the Top 10 then you'll have to qualify.

You don't have to be an independent no. Pre-Q drivers have as much right to form teams as anyone else, since you may only need to Pre-Q for one week if you're good. However, Team points are only available for the main races so bear that in mind.

To spice up the Independents series a bit though, Pre-Q drivers who are Independent and don't qualify will still score Independent points... so theoretically it is possible I suppose to win that title without ever qualifying for a main race.

I hope that helps.
Click to expand...

What happens when some stewards is in standings at position above 10?
Then driver in position 10 cant enter?
So maybe make rule, that first 6 non-stewards get locked-in?
 
powwa25
What happens when some stewards is in standings at position above 10?
Then driver in position 10 cant enter?
So maybe make rule, that first 6 non-stewards get locked-in?
Click to expand...

To be honest that's essentially how it is now without making it a written rule, but the point is more for when you say it the other way around.

If a steward (for example me) is outside the Top 10, then I'm still locked in so it's only the Top 9 who are locked in, if you understand me.
 
OK guys, based on earlier discussion about Pre-Q, I've been having a think and I've got two or three ideas I'd like to put to you. I suppose I'm aware of the dangers of incidents in the Pre-Q race which can cause major arguments, and I'd like to avoid the hassle if at all possible.

Which of these options is best?

1. Leave things as they are.

The 7-minute Qualifying session followed by half-distance race, as it is right now.​

As a side note within this plan, would anyone want to see the main races upped to 25 minutes since there's now only 2 of them?
​
2. Turn Pre-Qualifying into a Qualifying session only.

Pre-Qualifying would still be a 7-minute session, but this is all that happens. No Pre-Q race, except for a meaningless 1-lapper to give me the replay I need to note down the positions (or alternatively, no race at all, just getting drivers to stop "manually" by calling the end of the session over chat and making all drivers finish the lap they're on - the 1-lap race is probably easier and quicker to manage though once I've fussed about checking all the lap times myself).

Jack Sears and Independent points would be awarded on lap times in Pre-Q instead of finishing positions in the Pre-Q race (since there isn't one), therefore.

This plan may afford time and room to reinstate the third main race.
​
3. Turn Pre-Qualifying into a Qualifying session only, but still run a Pre-Q race for the Jack Sears Trophy.

Let me explain this one.

The 7-minute Pre-Qualifying session would determine which six drivers make it through to the main races. In other words, the people who start 1st to 6th on the race grid would qualify, regardless of where they finish in the subsequent race.

However, a half-distance race would still get run and this would form the basis of the Jack Sears Trophy, which could be expanded to cover all Pre-Q drivers, and not just those who fail to qualify. You could qualify 8th (and thus fail to make the main races), but still somehow win the Pre-Q race for max points in the JST.

If you qualified 7th for this race but finished 6th in the race, it wouldn't matter. You'd score an extra Jack Sears point but it wouldn't mean you could take part in the main races. This would take out that 'desperation' to finish 6th which could cause all the trouble, yet still give the non-qualifying drivers a race to take part in. It should also make the race less processional.
​
Which idea works best for you? Opinions please.
​
------------------------

Does anyone have any team/car choice news they want to tell me about?

Any opinions on the cars after tonight's test?
 
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A bit too tired to read all of that tonight but I have one question.

Who is Jack Sears ?

I guess i could just google it but once again too tired/lazy
 
rolo912011
OK guys, based on earlier discussion about Pre-Q, I've been having a think and I've got two or three ideas I'd like to put to you. I suppose I'm aware of the dangers of incidents in the Pre-Q race which can cause major arguments, and I'd like to avoid the hassle if at all possible.

Which of these options is best?

1. Leave things as they are.

The 7-minute Qualifying session followed by half-distance race, as it is right now.​

As a side note within this plan, would anyone want to see the main races upped to 25 minutes since there's now only 2 of them?
​
2. Turn Pre-Qualifying into a Qualifying session only.

Pre-Qualifying would still be a 7-minute session, but this is all that happens. No Pre-Q race, except for a meaningless 1-lapper to give me the replay I need to note down the positions (or alternatively, no race at all, just getting drivers to stop "manually" by calling the end of the session over chat and making all drivers finish the lap they're on - the 1-lap race is probably easier and quicker to manage though once I've fussed about checking all the lap times myself).

Jack Sears and Independent points would be awarded on lap times in Pre-Q instead of finishing positions in the Pre-Q race (since there isn't one), therefore.

This plan may afford time and room to reinstate the third main race.
​
3. Turn Pre-Qualifying into a Qualifying session only, but still run a Pre-Q race for the Jack Sears Trophy.

Let me explain this one.

The 7-minute Pre-Qualifying session would determine which six drivers make it through to the main races. In other words, the people who start 1st to 6th on the race grid would qualify, regardless of where they finish in the subsequent race.

However, a half-distance race would still get run and this would form the basis of the Jack Sears Trophy, which could be expanded to cover all Pre-Q drivers, and not just those who fail to qualify. You could qualify 8th (and thus fail to make the main races), but still somehow win the Pre-Q race for max points in the JST.

If you qualified 7th for this race but finished 6th in the race, it wouldn't matter. You'd score an extra Jack Sears point but it wouldn't mean you could take part in the main races. This would take out that 'desperation' to finish 6th which could cause all the trouble, yet still give the non-qualifying drivers a race to take part in. It should also make the race less processional.
​
Which idea works best for you? Opinions please.
​
------------------------

Does anyone have any team/car choice news they want to tell me about?

Any opinions on the cars after tonight's test?
Click to expand...

Option 3 sounds good, as it will give us lowly back-markers an extra incentive to keep at it, although I'd imagine you wouldn't mind people dropping out as it makes life a lot easier for you! A 25 minute race sounds good as well although there might not be enough time if you went with option 3?

Apologies @azidahaka for the love tap, I apologized after the race but it got pushed off the screen almost straight away. I didn't realize you were in the sand until a few corners later.
 
Second option is probably least bothersome in my view.

It's tempting with all the options to just get tough and run the session as an actual Qualifier, as this seems the easiest way. I know this means that latecomers and people who DC will miss out... but I suppose you could say that if you're late, that's too bad anyway (I know sometimes it can't be helped but in real life if you miss a race through being stuck in traffic you still miss the race). If you DC, then that's the same as your engine blowing in a real-life race I guess. Out of qualifying, can't take part any more. 7 minutes isn't a long time anyway... it's only really enough for one, perhaps two, flying laps depending on the track. If you do DC, are you really gonna have time to recover and post a time?

Plus it means no driver can craftily exit the track and lower their weight after checks.
 
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Malcolm Tucker
Option 3 sounds good, as it will give us lowly back-markers an extra incentive to keep at it, although I'd imagine you wouldn't mind people dropping out as it makes life a lot easier for you! A 25 minute race sounds good as well although there might not be enough time if you went with option 3?/quote]

There wouldn't be time to expand the main races with this option no.

You're right about the incentive though and that's what I'm trying to keep... balanced with the responsibilities of trying to run everything smoothly.
Click to expand...

There wouldn't be time to expand the main races with Option 3.

The incentive thing is what I'm trying to keep... just also trying to balance the responsibility of trying to run it all smoothly and fairly.
 
The Renault is stronger in a straight line, but I'm convinced what is gained is all lost in the bends.
Race 2, me and rolo had a very long battle which proved even pace with the ford.
Race 3, albeit a lot of difference in straight line and corner speeds between the Renault and BMW FF/FR, pace was even.
Not sure on the other cars tho :)
Goin to be a good season, and love spa :sly:
 
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Rolo, I understand your concerns over running a qualifying race, the potential for some silly moves is great, but we also need to give people the benefit of the doubt. At the end of the day we all want to have a clean race, so hopefully that's what will occur.

I would keep things as they are for now, a 7-minute qualifying session, follow by the half distance race.....but be strict and vigilant to make sure that everyone is behaving themselves. If there is any funny business throw the book (and an axe) at the person(s) involved.

If it becomes apparent that people can't race fairly in the qualifying race, we could always swap to a proper qualifying session and base the results on the lap times only. The JST points can still be given based upon the lap times. This still leaves the series open to problems of corner cutting....you can't watch everyone on their fast lap, so what's to stop someone taking a nibble hear and there? It would easily go unnoticed, so this is also open to abuse.

25 Minute races? Yes please, I'd love a few extra laps per race as long as the tyres can last the distance. Bring it on.
I'll PM you something in a few mins.
 
Sorry I didn't stick around, as I mentioned everybody was lagging badly for me so it wasn't worth the hassle of trying to race.

Joined another lobby and was fine, rejoined yours and everybody lagging again. Assume I had a conflict with someone in the room.

Option 3.
 
Ian_83
25 Minute races? Yes please, I'd love a few extra laps per race as long as the tyres can last the distance. Bring it on.
I'll PM you something in a few mins.
Click to expand...

I agree, more laps would be ok, but not if the tyres life is getting stretched to much.

Edit: I'd rather be able to push most of a stint before pitting, rather than having to nurse tyres like they do in F1 at the minute.
 
xflow1390
I agree, more laps would be ok, but not if the tyres life is getting stretched to much.

Edit: I'd rather be able to push most of a stint before pitting, rather than having to nurse tyres like they do in F1 at the minute.
Click to expand...
Yep, agreed. I don't mind coping with worn tyres to some degree, it gives an element of strategy to the racing which is good, but I don't want the tyres to drop off completely and ruin the fun. Bearing in mind that we have the pit-stop tyre bug to deal with at the moment too.
 
Ian_83
Yep, agreed. I don't mind coping with worn tyres to some degree, it gives an element of strategy to the racing which is good, but I don't want the tyres to drop off completely and ruin the fun. Bearing in mind that we have the pit-stop tyre bug to deal with at the moment too.
Click to expand...

Perhaps better then not to extend the races when we have that bug to contend with? Keeps things as simple as possible. Extended tyre wear may hand the FRs a bit of advantage also; FFs will eat their tyres more on handling tracks where FR cars do better anyway.

-----

Couple of important notes:

No VWs or Volvos ran tonight... but I have changed their specs anyway based on my own running. Again, this is provisional but hopefully these changes will fix these:

  1. VW down to 1500kg
  2. Volvo down to 1220kg

Secondly, I've updated the OP with car regs info to hopefully prevent all the confusions over parts and tuning.
 
Malcolm Tucker
Option 3 sounds good, as it will give us lowly back-markers an extra incentive to keep at it, although I'd imagine you wouldn't mind people dropping out as it makes life a lot easier for you! A 25 minute race sounds good as well although there might not be enough time if you went with option 3?

Apologies @azidahaka for the love tap, I apologized after the race but it got pushed off the screen almost straight away. I didn't realize you were in the sand until a few corners later.
Click to expand...
do not worry. it seems this serie needs far more tuningexpertize than i hoped for, or maybe i/car sucks.... i was so uber outgunned every straight it was just frustrating.

i'll cool down and if i have enough free time i'll start tuning the car, else, we'll i'll be prequalifying lol
 
rolo912011
Perhaps better then not to extend the races when we have that bug to contend with? Keeps things as simple as possible. Extended tyre wear may hand the FRs a bit of advantage also; FFs will eat their tyres more on handling tracks where FR cars do better anyway.
Click to expand...
Yeah I agree that the FR's could potentially get an advantage from having a longer race, they do have superior tyre wear.

A few test races need to be conducted to see what happens, this can be done without others. Just need to make sure that the FF lap times don't suffer too much with a longer race distance. The second set of tyres will be the stumbling block, the grip is much less and the tyre wear seems to be increased.

_____

How was tonight's test session? Judging by the few posts, I'm guessing that it wasn't all that busy. Apologies for not attending, its not out of choice. I'm still hopefully all set for getting my internet sorted on the 4th.... Can't wait.
 
Ian_83
How was tonight's test session? Judging by the few posts, I'm guessing that it wasn't all that busy. Apologies for not attending, its not out of choice. I'm still hopefully all set for getting my internet sorted on the 4th.... Can't wait.
Click to expand...

Not too bad, we had 10 or 11 at most tonight so a decent field.

I think I had something of an edge because I've done so much testing in comparison to the others, so my Ford was very fast. I know it's alright though.

Shame no VWs or Volvos were present, they were the two that kinda need most attention really I think.

The FRs still have a straight-line speed disadvantage but quade still managed to beat the Renaults at Fuji with his BMW so things are promising in that respect.
 
I hate to be harsh, but if the Pre-Qualifying race stays, then regardless of how it works then the following will apply:

The Pre-Qualifying session will be run as a 'Race Together' Qualifier instead of a practice session with Automatic Start Time. The session will aim to begin at 7.05pm GMT latest, and if you're late without good reason, then we'll start without you, and that means an instant failure to qualify, as you can't join a Qualifier once it's started. I won't take any crap for that - I'm saying it here so you all know the score.

Similarly, if you disconnect during the Qualifier then it also counts as an instant failure to qualify, in the same way that an F1 driver has a car failure in Q1 then it's over for him. I won't be resetting anything if you disconnect, and you can't rejoin a Qualifier if you leave it (which is dumb by PD but you have to work with it :rolleyes:)​
 

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