Bugatti Veyron Successor: Chiron

[GTboyz]

sorry to bump on an old thread but i think this belongs here ?
http://www.autoblog.com/2014/04/13/bugatti-veyron-prototype-nurburgring-spy-video/?cps=gravity

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

My guess would be that it's a drivetrain mule for the next Bugatti. Who knows though.

 

[Robin]

Testing the mounting where the additional rows of superchargers will sit

 

[MoLiEG]

Interesting find...

Nobody knows what Bugatti is up to since they stupidly cancelled the Galibier/Royale Project...

 

[McLaren]

They're still trying to get rid of the last couple dozen orders of Veyrons. They can't move forward til then.

 

[GTboyz]

im hoping that body is only a test mule, that we will see something different.

 

[Organ-Donor]

http://blog.caranddriver.com/back-t...sse-black-bess-debuts-2014-beijing-auto-show/

 

[D.Kadettdriver]

Another "special edition"? I've lost count...

 

[McLaren]

It's the only way they can keep pumping the remaining ones out really. But this is part of the Bugatti Legends range they're doing dedicated to famous people/cars/whatever of the Bugatti brand.

 

[starknight97]

sorry to bump on an old thread but i think this belongs here ?
http://www.autoblog.com/2014/04/13/bugatti-veyron-prototype-nurburgring-spy-video/?cps=gravity

I think its called the Bugatti veyron scaffolding edition.

 

[MoLiEG]

http://blog.caranddriver.com/back-t...sse-black-bess-debuts-2014-beijing-auto-show/

Gorgeous!!! Just like any Veyron

 

[Terronium-12]

That's gorgeous and the inner door artwork is something I've honestly never seen before - it doesn't even come off as tacky.

I wonder if the gold accents can be touched up in a mid-to-dark grey?

 

[HKS racer]

It reminds more more luxury boat than a luxury car. Luxury boats are sub zero when you have one, seriously uncool when you don't.

 

[Squach240]

so why do companies bother building supercars and superbikes?

In that case, we need cars like pre-paid cell phones. Yeah.

 

[Inferno251]

It reminds more more luxury boat than a luxury car. Luxury boats are sub zero when you have one, seriously uncool when you don't.

Or some kind of business jet or Concorde...

 

[AudiMan2011]

The new Bugatti is coming in 2016.
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/bugatti-official-confirms-exiting-new-model-for-2016-84398.html

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I lol'd:

 

[Pupik]

You all thought the 2.2L Camry was impressive...

 

[disneyland5]

Apparently the Veyron successor will have more aerodynamics, reduced weight, and a whopping 1500 HP. It's going to rock the auto industry when they finally reveal this elegant beast.

 

[Exorcet]

I kind of feel like the McLaren P1 will have them beat unless they radically depart from the Veyron's methodology.

 

[McLaren]

The P1 is amazing, no doubt there, but it took McLaren & Porsche several years to build on the Veyron's ability to do several things all very well with the addition of their own hybrid systems. It's still a beast of car these days, the benchmark if you will, of combining power, reliability, & usability (in terms of anyone being able to use 1,200Hp without careening into the first light post more so than using the car every day, though it's definitely capable); if Bugatti successfully uses the hybrid technology to improve on the power & even fuel economy whilst keeping the other 2 traits going, I have no doubt it'll return right back to the top of the chain. The P1 & 918 will likely remain to have that edge on the track, but I think the Porsche will remain the closest to achieving all of Ferdinand's original goals for the Veyron should Veyron 2.0 stay true to its core & then some.

Big, big if's though considering how long it actually took the Veyron to go from concept to production car. Whatever goals Bugatti has for the hybrid systems, will either make the road to production easier or harder.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I kind of feel like the McLaren P1 will have them beat unless they radically depart from the Veyron's methodology.

Intrigued, I am. In what ways does the Veyron* methodology err? I see a clear philosophical line through the W12 Coupe of the late 90s to now... so it's presumably been errant throughout?

And are they really chasing the P1? Surely they're chasing the Hennessy Venom GT? The Veyron's USP was as the fastest production car in the world, it needs that record back. You might argue that the Venom/Veyron are diff'rent horses for diff'rent courses but the fact remains that the Veyron's fame mainly arises from its phenomenal straight-line potential.

And its ill-advised methodology.

*And I hate Veyrons, I hate their stupid faces, their silly tail lights, the silly colours, the motorboat dash clocks... everything. Grrr. I feel better now.

 

[alonsof1fan91]

The P1 is amazing, no doubt there, but it took McLaren & Porsche several years to build on the Veyron's ability to do several things all very well with the addition of their own hybrid systems.

Mclaren returned to the automotive landscape as a sportscar manufacturer in 2010, how could it have taken them several years "to build on the Veyron's ability to do several things all very well" when they just recently returned? What makes you think the Veyron was the benchmark for the P1?

Also, the 12C did many things very well - as the Veyron. Like its great ride comfort, while being an absolute track beast at the same time.

I'm quite sure the Veyron successor will be astonishing and break speed records for road cars, but I dont think it will compete with the P1 (for sure not on the race track, not if they sant to go +430km/h). I think both cars will be very different.

+ All P1s are sold out, so its not really a competitor

 

[MrUnknown]

You all thought the 2.2L Camry was impressive...

Well...

... It is.

 

[McLaren]

Mclaren returned to the automotive landscape as a sportscar manufacturer in 2010, how could it have taken them several years "to build on the Veyron's ability to do several things all very well" when they just recently returned? What makes you think the Veyron was the benchmark for the P1?

The P1 debuted in concept form in 2011. The rumors of the car came to light before that right after the 12C production was confirmed. If not several, at least a few years.

And read what I said instead of selectively quoting my post. It's the benchmark for power, reliability, & usability.

Also, the 12C did many things very well - as the Veyron. Like its great ride comfort, while being an absolute track beast at the same time.

The 12C is nowhere near the marvel the Veyron is. The sheer fact the Bugatti allows anyone to have over a thousand horsepower and use it with a warranty was ground breaking.

I'm quite sure the Veyron successor will be astonishing and break speed records for road cars, but I dont think it will compete with the P1 (for sure not on the race track, not if they sant to go +430km/h). I think both cars will be very different.

+ All P1s are sold out, so its not really a competitor

No one is talking about them being competitors. The discussion is about what both cars have done, technology wise to the automotive world.

 

[alonsof1fan91]

Yes, rumours of F1 successor have been floating around since 2010/2011, but that doesn't answear my question. The P1 was designed to compete with both the LaF and 918. Just because the Veyron happened to be very comfortable, while doing 400km/h and the P1 seems to have similar traits, it doesn't mean that McLaren was targeting Bugatti (Why should they? A Veyron successor is still few years down the road and the Veyron is even more exclusive than a P1/LaF) and designed their car wholly around those traits to be on par with Bugatti. Remember, the 12C, Mclarens first "bread and butter" car, was amazing in that regard too. Very comfortable ride, advanced driver aids (=safety) and it doesn't make you bleed out of your ears. Being amazingly fast on the road or track, while being perfectly usable as daily driver have become core messages of the McLaren brand.

I aggree with you that the 12C is nowhere near the tech "marvel" (eventhough its not a word I would use to describe a Veyron) the Bugatti was by the time it released. It's no halo car though, it's "only" competing with 458s and Gallardos.

If you talk about what both cars (P1&Veyrons) have done technology wise to the automotive world so far, i would say barely anything. Amazing feats of automotive engineering (eventhough the P1 is IMO less impressive considering how advanced F1/LMP1 cars have become), yet we will see next to nothing applied into our Golfs.

 

[Exorcet]

Intrigued, I am. In what ways does the Veyron* methodology err? I see a clear philosophical line through the W12 Coupe of the late 90s to now... so it's presumably been errant throughout?

And are they really chasing the P1? Surely they're chasing the Hennessy Venom GT? The Veyron's USP was as the fastest production car in the world, it needs that record back. You might argue that the Venom/Veyron are diff'rent horses for diff'rent courses but the fact remains that the Veyron's fame mainly arises from its phenomenal straight-line potential.

And its ill-advised methodology.

*And I hate Veyrons, I hate their stupid faces, their silly tail lights, the silly colours, the motorboat dash clocks... everything. Grrr. I feel better now.

You're right that they're probably not chasing the P1, but I can't help but compare them anyway. At the very least they sort of hover around the same price points. The P1 is closer to what I would consider to be the right balance for a hypercar, which is a weird way to put it since my ideal balance leans heavily toward track monster. Maybe I'm just numb, but refinement doesn't excite me to anywhere near the degree that performance does. I can't see a Veyron 2.0 beating the P1, even if the P1 itself is a bit compromised by trying to provide its own level of comfort and technology (but they have a GTR on the way as it is). On a more practical level, a sensible do-everything car with a giant price tag makes little sense to me. I wouldn't want to drive it around everyday for a number of reasons, and if I did I'd probably never make full use of the entire car's capability at the same time. I can't do 250 in traffic and I wouldn't care how well my heated cup holders were working while I'm on a race track. I really have to question how much better a Veyron is than a Lexus IS-F and Viper ACR or a Maybach and Pagani Zonda.

As for the Venom, it's a nice car and I like concept more than they Veyron, but it too feels like a bit of wasted potential with it chasing almost pointlessly high top speeds as its main draw.

The 12C is nowhere near the marvel the Veyron is. The sheer fact the Bugatti allows anyone to have over a thousand horsepower and use it with a warranty was ground breaking.

Every time that's brought up I only think about how that 1000 HP has the same effect as 700 in other cars. It's an impressive number, but there's no doubt that some of the car's bulk is down to needing to withstand that much power and then hide it from you when you're not on full throttle. I'd rather take the 700 HP and less weight, and as far as I'd know I doubt I'd have to give up that much comfort.

Also I wonder if the Lotec C1000 had a warranty.

 

[McLaren]

Every time that's brought up I only think about how that 1000 HP has the same effect as 700 in other cars. It's an impressive number, but there's no doubt that some of the car's bulk is down to needing to withstand that much power and then hide it from you when you're not on full throttle. I'd rather take the 700 HP and less weight, and as far as I'd know I doubt I'd have to give up that much comfort.

Also I wonder if the Lotec C1000 had a warranty.

I highly doubt the effect is anywhere near the same since unlike most cars, the Veyron's 1,000+ rating is wheel horsepower; the engine is capable of creating 3,000Hp, but loses 2/3rds to heat to the infamous hp number. That's possibly why it has the ability to make the car seem so tame under WOT.

And even if you do have 700Hp cars capable of creating the same effect, how long has it taken again to achieve the same 0-60, 0-100, etc. figures? Even the mighty P1 that has been brought up likely can't achieve the same effect because despite similar 0-60s & slightly faster QTR mile, it will drop off at 180mph, whilst the acceleration effect of the Veyron is constant nearly all the way; the tires are the only thing that end up forcing the car to call it quits.

 

[Exorcet]

I highly doubt the effect is anywhere near the same since unlike most cars, the Veyron's 1,000+ rating is wheel horsepower; the engine is capable of creating 3,000Hp, but loses 2/3rds to heat to the infamous hp number. That's possibly why it has the ability to make the car seem so tame under WOT.

I've never heard that the power figure is at the wheels.

At 22.28 ft^2 area with .357 CD, 253 mph requires 1299 lbf

1001 HP at 85% efficiency gets you 850 HP, which is about the drag power at 253 mph with that CDA.

All cars lose lots of power to heat (and noise).

And even if you do have 700Hp cars capable of creating the same effect, how long has it taken again to achieve the same 0-60, 0-100, etc. figures? Even the mighty P1 that has been brought up likely can't achieve the same effect because despite similar 0-60s & slightly faster QTR mile, it will drop off at 180mph, whilst the acceleration effect of the Veyron is constant nearly all the way; the tires are the only thing that end up forcing the car to call it quits.

The Veyron also has AWD boosting the low end acceleration. The high speed acceleration is physics as drag becomes more important that weight, but those higher speeds tend to be inaccessible even if you're looking to reach them. The Veyron's acceleration is not constant though, even if it had 1001 HP at all times, that leads to a decreasing force at the wheels, even if you ignored air drag the rate of acceleration drops.

EDIT

If I remember, with 750 HP the S7 TT beat the Veyron outright through the mile. I'll have to look for the article.



EDIT 2

Nope dead even, though it was not a side by side test like I thought it was:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-rev...road-the-standing-mile---saleen-s7-twin-turbo

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-reviews/car-comparison-tests/speed-kings-bugatti-veyron-164-1

 

[McLaren]

I've never heard that the power figure is at the wheels.

The Veyron is a truly groundbreaking vehicle," says Wolfgang Schreiber, technical director of Bugatti Engineering, one of only three people who regularly push the EB 16.4 to the limit. Before the Veyron, he specialized in lightweight materials and recently guided development of Volkswagen's twin-clutch DSG transmission. "The maximum combustion energy adds up to 3000 PS: 1000 is swallowed by the cooling system, 1000 goes through the exhaust, and 1000 is relayed to the four driven wheels;?1000 PS is a whole new dimension.

Read more: http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/coupes/0511_bugatti_veryon/#ixzz39xplaiWg

The documentary on Man-Made also detailed this info a more basic explanation.

All cars lose lots of power to heat (and noise).

Most cars do not have engines capable of producing triple their rated power.

The Veyron also has AWD boosting the low end acceleration. The high speed acceleration is physics as drag becomes more important that weight, but those higher speeds tend to be inaccessible even if you're looking to reach them. The Veyron's acceleration is not constant though, even if it had 1001 HP at all times, that leads to a decreasing force at the wheels, even if you ignored air drag the rate of acceleration drops.

You're looking far too technical into the term. In comparison to the P1, the Veyron is still accelerating at a fast pace beyond the point the P1 starts to hit its limit. The effect of a 700Hp car is likely not there, again described in the article that the Veyron only needs 266Hp to reach 155Mph.

To reach 155 mph, where lesser sports cars throw in the towel, only 266 hp is required. When you summon the remaining 721 hp, all hell breaks loose.

Read more: http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/coupes/0511_bugatti_veryon/#ixzz39xpyttZs