Car handling --- Different online

[Rotary Junkie]

So I'm getting to be extremely upset with the online physics...

My '10 Camaro is rock stable all the way around the Ring offline. Online? It uncontrollably goes completely sideways entering the karussel amongst other spots.

It also seems that the way any given car reacts to bumps changes noticeably online. No idea why.

 

[SS_1182]

Tried some serious online racing for the first time yesterday. Had just spent over an hour getting a tune for my FGT. I went online and couldn't even race it on Daytona. If you floor the throttle on the corners it goes into a wild spin. Tried another online race in the rain, more like ice. It was the same for everyone. I guess it's the lag, I don't know. It's definitely different. I've never had a problem on Daytona in my life, especially with the FGT, until I tried it online.

 

[panjandrum]

Although I had put GT5 away in disgust over this issue, I did take it back up and try it again with the new update, which did nothing to address this issue.

However, I also took several problem cars back online around a much wider variety of tracks than before, and I'm absolutely shocked by the variability of the variability! This shows a woeful lack of testing on the part of PD. (In all cases however, I have increased snap-back issues, which cause real problems driving the type of cars I enjoy driving, where "letting the tail hang out" is part of life. Additionally, even on the best tracks my cars feel somewhat "looser" as others here have found, although that issue is less important to me than the primary issue.)

Trial Mountain is terrible, by far the worst I've encountered yet. On this track, my 2 most common test cars behave utterly and completely incorrectly.

On Cape Ring, the cars behave more or less properly. At least they drive like RR cars again. EXCEPT when you get to the ramp. Then it all goes out the window and they refuse to handle anything like they would in reality. Upon exiting the ramp (eventually), they again handle OK.

On Nurburgring, on the other hand, the cars feel more accurate and realistic yet again. Only on the karussel do they suddenly and spastically take on a completely different personality. And while this is a very tricky part of the course, my Alpine shouldn't flip itself instantly around even when taking it very conservatively on a nice steady partial throttle, which is what should stabilize the car the most.)

I can't imagine how this all came to be. Well, no, that's not true, we've all seen plenty of improperly tested buggy software, and I think a lot of the problems we are experiencing here come down that. But, on the bright side, PD has done some great things with the updates so far. Hopefully they will eventually get this whole dual-physics/random-physics thing sorted out.

 

[shirakawaa]

So it wasn't only my impression that handling online changes with the selected track.
Then, in my case, Autumn Ring Mini is where I get the worst snap oversteer.

 

[vett'e]

At first I thought my car had serious issues! Did a retune and some more on suzuka really quickly, but when I entered online it was apparent there was still a disparity with the way the car felt and handled. However, it really scrutinizes your tune though. Makes the worse come out and demerits the good.
If your car can perform online (and win), then it'll definitely do good elsewhere.

 

[vett'e]

This is exactly what I thought. I figured they would have watered down the physics for A-Spec to get people accustomed to racing fast, and leave the real physics for online. However, as many people have pointed out... cars will not roll online. So the realism of the physics isn't there.

It was only the latest update have the physics been different for me though. If what you stressed was true, then why haven't they introduced the 'full' physics engine for online play from the very beginning? In my opinion, it makes no sense at all to change suddenly. Furthermore, why bother with two physics engine anyway, its somewhat a mockery to 'the real driving simulator'. Had PD thought that the A-spec races were too hard to win with standard physics, then there are definitely other means to compensate for that. Furthermore, all the tunes that the various garages and independent tuners have made have become utterly redundant, or at best 'obsolete'.

 

[Pyrone89]

I am also very annoyed by these different phsyics.

My offline tunes are worthless online.

As soon as I even look at the gast pedal my car goes into a wild spin.

 

[DraftD]

I agree 100 percent. The Ruf BTR 86' is a prime example. I normally test it on deep forest because its a tough track for this RR drive car. set up all my toe, camber damper etc and it drives perfect. I go online to a room that is set to default and it will spin out for sure.

 

[GTP_Music]

Lately it seems like they've fixed it. Feels better to me.

 

[CeeJay]

Tested this out and it sure is weird. I took one of my top heavy SUVs (I think it was that concept Audi one) and tuned it to be a spastic rollover machine in offline. I couldn't take a turn without the vehicle going into a massive two wheel tilt. (it's actually really fun to drive like this! ). Took it online and it was incredible how different the handling was. It toned down my crazy suspension tuning and as has been noted, made rollover totally impossible. I'd love to know the reason behind having such a drastically different handling model between the offline & online modes. Maybe the physics had to take a hit to conserve memory for a smoother online experience?

 

[shirakawaa]

Handling is so drastically different, however, that it takes out the fun in driving and the point in tuning the suspension set-up. I don't want simplified or plain wrong physics.

 

[blaaah]

I had my first experience of playing online yesterday i checked all the settings, the car handle completely differently. Much harder, less grip. I'm not saying it's bad to drive, but it's very bad that it's completely different to offline. Online is more like the GT academy demo and offline is like prologue.

 

[IndyRacer]

I tried the online racing today for the first time. I used a car that did not have any tuning done to it other than swapping the tires. I noticed the car handling a little differently online but I did not take the time to do some testing.

I have read through a lot of the posts on this subject and it seems most people are seeing a difference online vs. offline.

My idea is maybe the tuning setups we do on the cars offline is not being translated or interpreted the same to the online racing.

If you take a bone stock car with no tuning and drive it offline and online is there still a difference?

I am at level 28 in A-Spec.

 

[MowTin]

Physics engines work at a certain frequency. Is it possible that when you go online, the added burden of netcode causes the physics engine to skip or miss a few cycles?

The effect would be more pronounced when a car is sliding. If the engine misses a cycle the slide doesn't end as quickly as it should. You oversteer and understeer slightly more online.

Possibly more cpu intensive tracks suffer more.

ABS 0 would be worse due to the brake lock.

Is this a possible answer to why online seems different from offline?

 

[novcze]

Now I dont really know what is changing.

What I see is credit for Online Race Engine, which to me looks not related to physics. More like stuff behind lounge and network things.

I don't think there are different physics for online and offline. There is difference in tyre wear and fuel consumption. Another big difference may be in your head, literally ... if you go online, there is more pressure so you may become bit nervous, right?

We are doing (GT-Racing.cz) weekly online races (long ones), I usually do lot of training in practice mode in GT Life before race and handling is exactly same as in online race afterwards. I've never experienced difference.

 

[RC45]

Physics engines work at a certain frequency. Is it possible that when you go online, the added burden of netcode causes the physics engine to skip or miss a few cycles?

The effect would be more pronounced when a car is sliding. If the engine misses a cycle the slide doesn't end as quickly as it should. You oversteer and understeer slightly more online.

Possibly more cpu intensive tracks suffer more.

ABS 0 would be worse due to the brake lock.

Is this a possible answer to why online seems different from offline?

The PD are failing at what other racing games have mastered 5 years ago.

 

[novcze]

The PD are failing at what other racing games have mastered 5 years ago.

And do you really think MowTin have any proof for his bold statement. Well, it's not even statement more like wild assumption and you're still taking that as obvious true?

 

[RC45]

And do you really think MowTin have any proof for his bold statement. Well, it's not even statement more like wild assumption and you're still taking that as obvious true?

Actually, having done early back to back tests of stock cars in custom lobbys there is no doubt there is a difference in the online physics response compared to GT Life.

Now whether it is due to poor coding or netlag - who cares - the point is that your offline training is not reflected in online performance.

 

[MowTin]

And do you really think MowTin have any proof for his bold statement. Well, it's not even statement more like wild assumption and you're still taking that as obvious true?

Yes, what I said was just speculation. That's why worded it as a question.

But I think we can safely rule out the idea that there are two different physics models. That's absurd. The netcode only tells the server where the car is on the track. The physics are calculated on the clients not the server.

I suspect they disabled rollover because it's harder to keep and predict car positions when the car is flying off the track and rolling.

Online there are probably a few different parameters to smooth out the game. But I can't imagine why any of those parameters would effect handling. So my guess is maybe the thread that calculates the physics is not getting enough cpu time to do its job when online.

Again, pure speculation.

 

[novcze]

Actually, having done early back to back tests of stock cars in custom lobbys there is no doubt there is a difference in the online physics response compared to GT Life.

Now whether it is due to poor coding or netlag - who cares - the point is that your offline training is not reflected in online performance.

I haven't made any direct comparsion, but never noticed any difference between GT Life and online ... I'm not saying there isn't, just didn't notice.

Best solution is to train online anyway, because you can setup car to better reflect changes in weight and tyre wear.

 

[gtuuk73]

I haven't made any direct comparsion, but never noticed any difference between GT Life and online ... I'm not saying there isn't, just didn't notice.

Best solution is to train online anyway, because you can setup car to better reflect changes in weight and tyre wear.

I agree here when I tune a car I setup a online room and tune it online this way there are no surprises.

 

[0boz0]

Handling differences online are down to the way PD Has different variables for tyre temperature and wear.

Offline the temperature of the tyres reaches their optimum quicker and also holds onto that temperature more consistently.

Online Tyre temperature is slower to reach optimum and to keep them in the zone is more difficult to achieve.

Offline Tyre wear is less apparent and you can complete 5 lap distances with no loss in grip.

Online Tyre wear is very apparent and within 2/3 laps your grip levels start to reduce, which seems very aggressive tyre wear and actually seem to have less life then F1 tyres which is ridiculous.

PD NEXT UPDATE Should give us the option when setting up a room to turn off tyre wear for short races/practice/qualifying.💡

 

[HKS racer]

I struggled a bit at the Nascar LV23 championship. First four races, dead easy, but in the fifth (Daytona) the car lost speed in the corners despite full throttle and all assist off except ABS=1. Then I got the tip to turn ABS=0. When I did, dead easy, and the car cornered faster on full throttle.

Yes this a well known bug, I hope PD recon it
About online less grip, you need to warm up your tyres, when you need to test a an online car go in your lobby room

 

[SS_1182]

I used to have a lot of problems with the online racing, but I haven't had any issues in at least 2 weeks. I thought they'd fixed it.

 

[BWX]

Some people still have their head in the sand on this issue it seems, PD being one of them.

 

[Ubiquitous]

The physics are certainly different.

The tyre explanation on this page sounds like the most plausible explanation for it.

I can run a 6:40 lap in a car offline, comfortably able to push it and probably being able to go even faster if I really hit the limits. Online that same car with the exact same setup suddenly has more twitch oversteer and driving it at the same pace results in a laptime which is 10 seconds slower.

I'm not unhappy with online being harder, I just want there to be consistency. I want the testing and tuning I do offline to apply online. I tune a car to be competitive offline only to find out it handles completely differently online and can't achieve the same times.

 

[SkylineR88]

Handling differences online are down to the way PD Has different variables for tyre temperature and wear.

Offline the temperature of the tyres reaches their optimum quicker and also holds onto that temperature more consistently.

Online Tyre temperature is slower to reach optimum and to keep them in the zone is more difficult to achieve.

Offline Tyre wear is less apparent and you can complete 5 lap distances with no loss in grip.

Online Tyre wear is very apparent and within 2/3 laps your grip levels start to reduce, which seems very aggressive tyre wear and actually seem to have less life then F1 tyres which is ridiculous.

PD NEXT UPDATE Should give us the option when setting up a room to turn off tyre wear for short races/practice/qualifying.💡

I was going to say i think its the tyres which behave differently online from ym experience

 

[panjandrum]

I've continued to experiment with this issue from time to time. I've also started voice-chatting with other online drivers quite a bit about the issue when I join a race which appears to have mature individuals in it. The overwhelming consensus so far has been essentially this: "Yeah, the cars handle completely differently online." I spoke with one man in particular who, like me, loves to drive the Yellowbird. He started the conversation by asking me what suspension setup I was using (stock), and said that he had been trying for weeks to get the Yellowbird to handle like it should on nurburgring using the racing suspension to tweak the settings, but that he still couldn't get it right.

It would really, really be nice if those of you who think "it is just the tires" could please try reading the entire thread, watching the couple of available videos, and then maybe trying the cars and tracks which are specifically noted as being the most problematic. There is simply no way, period, that this is just a tire problem. Seriously, this is basic process of elimination here: The fact that this effect varies so drastically from track to track (or sometimes even within the same track, see posts above), indicates quite clearly that it isn't just tires. Put it down to a simple bug if you want, or more likely multiple bugs which then compound the issue when certain cars and certain tracks meet up. Regardless, it's absurd that PD has put us in this situation whether by accident or by design.

And while I agree with a number of the posters here who think the single-player mode is a bit too easy, I would rather not have my racing sim be difficult due to physics problems. If I can't apply the same driving techniques in the sim as I can in real life motorsports, then that's a real problem with anything claiming to be a sim. The fact this it effects certain cars so dramatically more than others really doesn't mitigate the basic issue. If anything, it points to an even greater lack of testing on the part of PD.

 

[tribolik]

I think its not just the tyres but also fuel load wich affects more cars than others because of the weight transfer - especialy cars with little and unbalanced weight distribucion

I also think that the physics online are more acurate (more sim like) and better and they where probably tonned down to the career mode because the PS3 has to deal with 12 diferent car physics instead of one for online

 

[BWX]

Off-line feels way more realistic to me. For example: The average road car is EASY to drive and does not always try to swap ends and KILL YOU like the same car will do on-line. Fuell or no fuel, new or worn tires.. The differences are too big.