Car handling --- Different online
- Thread starter Sail IC
- 294 comments
- 35,307 views
- 264
I don't think it's just down to tyres.
Tuning the suspension in certain ways can yield brilliant handling offline which turns into crazy snap oversteer or ridiculous understeer online.
I wonder what the significance of the 'race quality' setting is in all of this. Surely that has to do with the amount of data processed and sent to clients when online.
I think everyone should go to their personal lounge (which is an online server essentially) and try out the different race quality settings to see if there are any differences. Perhaps race quality very high will be closer to offline than low for example.
Tuning the suspension in certain ways can yield brilliant handling offline which turns into crazy snap oversteer or ridiculous understeer online.
I wonder what the significance of the 'race quality' setting is in all of this. Surely that has to do with the amount of data processed and sent to clients when online.
I think everyone should go to their personal lounge (which is an online server essentially) and try out the different race quality settings to see if there are any differences. Perhaps race quality very high will be closer to offline than low for example.
- 1,106
- NC/NoVA
- dudeondacouch
Another vote for "completely different" here. For me, it's not only been excessive oversteer and snap, but lack of stability all-around. Sometimes it feels as if my car is being bumped from the side or rear by some unseen force, and it DEFINITELY seems to be exacerbated when other cars are near me on the track. It has bugged me the most at the 'ring, but that may be due to the difficult and unforgiving nature of the track in general.
Going to do some tests on Trial Mountain with a very stable FF car that is already set up for the track. The TRIAL Celica SS-II
PB offline (Practice mode, Racing Soft, 338 HP) = 1:26.479
EDIT: TEST RESULTS FOLLOW
***Above time was posted in Practice mode before tire wear was enabled***
Currently I can manage very consistent low 1:27.xxx and break into 1:26.xxx with a good lap in practice mode. Also, tires seem to last and last.
In my lounge I can manage 1:28.xxx at BEST. The car does not feel the same, it's more slippery. The tires are starting noticeable wear after only 3 laps. I think the tire wear issue is not coming from something different about the tires themselves or the wear model, but from the fact that the car is always sliding. Something is DEFINITELY different with the handling model.
I have a weekly race with the same group of people every week, and everyone has noticed that there is no point in running anything other than racing soft tires, because the hard/medium tires wear out EVEN FASTER than the softs. This can only be because the car is sliding more. In our first race, I had no online experience, and started with racing hard tires on a JGTC NSX, the Premium Raybrig model to be exact. The track was Suzuka Circuit. I had run PLENTY of tuning laps and had everything dialed in nicely. When I got out on the course, it was like I was on ice. The car could not hold a corner AT ALL. I pitted after 6 laps of this and put on a softs. I was 39 seconds down on the leader. The rest of the race (14 laps) I did on that one set of tires, and while they wore down, they lasted, and I was only 12 seconds or so back at the end. So I KNOW it's not my driving, it was the tires.
Another issue popped up on my Trial Mountain test that I did not expect. Not only does the car seem to handle very differently, the track itself seems different. Turns pull you in/push you out differently, and bumps that didn't pitch the car before do so quite violently now and some vice versa. The surface almost seems to made out of a different material. (I suppose this would also account for the lack of traction and handling woes if it were the case.) Also, you cannot rollover. I thought maybe it was this "anti-roll" that was affecting the handling, so I dropped the car's anti-roll bars way down. It seemed to help the issue a bit, but made the car sloppy just like it would in offline mode. I am at a loss.
Cliff Notes: It's different, I don't know why, and I don't know how to fix it.
Going to do some tests on Trial Mountain with a very stable FF car that is already set up for the track. The TRIAL Celica SS-II
PB offline (Practice mode, Racing Soft, 338 HP) = 1:26.479
EDIT: TEST RESULTS FOLLOW
***Above time was posted in Practice mode before tire wear was enabled***
Currently I can manage very consistent low 1:27.xxx and break into 1:26.xxx with a good lap in practice mode. Also, tires seem to last and last.
In my lounge I can manage 1:28.xxx at BEST. The car does not feel the same, it's more slippery. The tires are starting noticeable wear after only 3 laps. I think the tire wear issue is not coming from something different about the tires themselves or the wear model, but from the fact that the car is always sliding. Something is DEFINITELY different with the handling model.
I have a weekly race with the same group of people every week, and everyone has noticed that there is no point in running anything other than racing soft tires, because the hard/medium tires wear out EVEN FASTER than the softs. This can only be because the car is sliding more. In our first race, I had no online experience, and started with racing hard tires on a JGTC NSX, the Premium Raybrig model to be exact. The track was Suzuka Circuit. I had run PLENTY of tuning laps and had everything dialed in nicely. When I got out on the course, it was like I was on ice. The car could not hold a corner AT ALL. I pitted after 6 laps of this and put on a softs. I was 39 seconds down on the leader. The rest of the race (14 laps) I did on that one set of tires, and while they wore down, they lasted, and I was only 12 seconds or so back at the end. So I KNOW it's not my driving, it was the tires.
Another issue popped up on my Trial Mountain test that I did not expect. Not only does the car seem to handle very differently, the track itself seems different. Turns pull you in/push you out differently, and bumps that didn't pitch the car before do so quite violently now and some vice versa. The surface almost seems to made out of a different material. (I suppose this would also account for the lack of traction and handling woes if it were the case.) Also, you cannot rollover. I thought maybe it was this "anti-roll" that was affecting the handling, so I dropped the car's anti-roll bars way down. It seemed to help the issue a bit, but made the car sloppy just like it would in offline mode. I am at a loss.
Cliff Notes: It's different, I don't know why, and I don't know how to fix it.
Last edited:
- 1,571
- Zemst
- Fryto1983
I found that the Karts are way more sensitive for bumps in the road offline than online.
Take for example the London track in the normal direction: on Trafalgar Square there is a bump in the road that you need to take the correct way so you don't spin out. Once you know it it's pretty easy online. But offline the kart jumps much more at the same spot, making it more difficult to keep a clean racing line.
Take for example the London track in the normal direction: on Trafalgar Square there is a bump in the road that you need to take the correct way so you don't spin out. Once you know it it's pretty easy online. But offline the kart jumps much more at the same spot, making it more difficult to keep a clean racing line.
- 186
- Sincx
Tested this some more yesterday and they online coding for grip levels are no where near where they should be. I done a **** load of online racing on the PC and grip levels differ in practice qually and race mode for all games. Offline practice modes are usually on par with race mode.
But the way this game handles it is just beyond logic ? With the proper settings for the car it still lacks grip, cars that should be planted like a m ffer just are not.
And the tyre model is completly rubbisch. How can anything but SOFT tyres wear off SO much faster ??? Hards should give less grip but last forever.
They way it is now is that softs give more grip AND give that grip way longer.
Baffled. Sure this game has much work in it but I expected more from GT in terms of physics. Seems not a lot of testing and comparisation was done with the well known developers in this genre of online (sim)racing.
But the way this game handles it is just beyond logic ? With the proper settings for the car it still lacks grip, cars that should be planted like a m ffer just are not.
And the tyre model is completly rubbisch. How can anything but SOFT tyres wear off SO much faster ??? Hards should give less grip but last forever.
They way it is now is that softs give more grip AND give that grip way longer.
Baffled. Sure this game has much work in it but I expected more from GT in terms of physics. Seems not a lot of testing and comparisation was done with the well known developers in this genre of online (sim)racing.
- 1,106
- NC/NoVA
- dudeondacouch
- 1,106
- NC/NoVA
- dudeondacouch
vvvvvvv
Anyone got time to do some EXTREMELY conservative laps with with an AWD car and all aids maxed to test this?
I LOL'd...
But seriously, there is an obvious difference and whether it is intentional by PD or not, it needs to be addressed and explained. Has anyone proposed this issue to PD yet?
mykem
Premium
- 1,260
From the cars I've been driving online mostly on the Nurburgring 24 hour course and La Sarthe- mostly with either Sport Hard or Comfort Soft on production cars and occasionally with Race Hard (on Super GT cars)- the difference is apparent but nothing to the extent of a different physics.
I can feel a bit more weight shift between the tires (my G25 is set to max 10) and the car will behave differently a different phase of the race- cold tires and fuel weight seems to be what's at play. The characteristic of each cars are still intact and the FFB feels just as they do in any part of GT5.
It has to be noted that I was looking for the difference (after reading this thread and not having experience the "online physics") and for the first few attempt I did feel that I might indeed preferred the off-line feel of the cars. But after doing a number of laps and being aware of the differences- adjusted to the different level of adhesion to the tires and the more palpable sense of weight shift on the cars- I've reached conclusion that if there's a difference in physics it is because of the added element namely tire wear/temperature and fuel load.
I can feel a bit more weight shift between the tires (my G25 is set to max 10) and the car will behave differently a different phase of the race- cold tires and fuel weight seems to be what's at play. The characteristic of each cars are still intact and the FFB feels just as they do in any part of GT5.
It has to be noted that I was looking for the difference (after reading this thread and not having experience the "online physics") and for the first few attempt I did feel that I might indeed preferred the off-line feel of the cars. But after doing a number of laps and being aware of the differences- adjusted to the different level of adhesion to the tires and the more palpable sense of weight shift on the cars- I've reached conclusion that if there's a difference in physics it is because of the added element namely tire wear/temperature and fuel load.
- 3
- Big_Gripper
Having experienced this issue myself and found it to be a total on-line killer, I have mulled over the issue in a few quiet moments and come up with a theory.
Is the difference in physics possibly a (poorly implemented) levelling measure so that people with control pads can compete with people with steering wheels?
My suggestion comes only from own short online experience and from the fact that most of the people on this forum seem to have very different experiences.
I have only played online versus a friend of mine once, with me using my DFGT and him using a standard game pad.
He was driving some of his stealth cars and I was in a fully tuned 'vette that I had been playing on all day off-line and was loving every second of it's drift happy handling.
As soon as I took it online to race my pal, I couldn't keep this thing in a straight line, even when when shifting from 4th to 5th gear with my foot hard down. It was basically a piece of total ****.
He however, found no difference in the handling of his cars at all and was lapping me constantly. We then went down to some 450 bhp cars which I was able to keep under control and was consistently kicking his butt.
Emboldened, we then back up to the 800 bhp+ cars and he was back in control whereas I was back in the bloody barrier. 
Anybody else got any thoughts on my theory?
Is the difference in physics possibly a (poorly implemented) levelling measure so that people with control pads can compete with people with steering wheels?
My suggestion comes only from own short online experience and from the fact that most of the people on this forum seem to have very different experiences.
I have only played online versus a friend of mine once, with me using my DFGT and him using a standard game pad.
He was driving some of his stealth cars and I was in a fully tuned 'vette that I had been playing on all day off-line and was loving every second of it's drift happy handling.
As soon as I took it online to race my pal, I couldn't keep this thing in a straight line, even when when shifting from 4th to 5th gear with my foot hard down. It was basically a piece of total ****.
He however, found no difference in the handling of his cars at all and was lapping me constantly. We then went down to some 450 bhp cars which I was able to keep under control and was consistently kicking his butt.
Emboldened, we then back up to the 800 bhp+ cars and he was back in control whereas I was back in the bloody barrier. Anybody else got any thoughts on my theory?
- 1,106
- NC/NoVA
- dudeondacouch
I'm quite sure PD wouldn't implement anything that dissuades people from getting wheels.
- 3
- Big_Gripper
I never it said it was the intention to dissuade people from buying wheels.
The intention that I hypothesize was to assist controller users in on-line competition by making life a bit harder for their wheel using opponents, who you would assume have advantage from their choice of purpose built controller.
Get it now? 💡
The intention that I hypothesize was to assist controller users in on-line competition by making life a bit harder for their wheel using opponents, who you would assume have advantage from their choice of purpose built controller.
Get it now? 💡
- 1,106
- NC/NoVA
- dudeondacouch
I understand what you're saying, and I never meant that such a measure would be implemented with the PURPOSE of persuading users to stick with the DS3, simply that it would be a RESULT. This would be as obvious to PD as it is to me, and as such, there is no way they would implement this measure.
FYI, I've experienced these issues as outlined in my posts in this thread, and I'm using a DS3.
FYI, I've experienced these issues as outlined in my posts in this thread, and I'm using a DS3.
- 161
- Pyrone89
In fact, it would promote using a wheel and especially pedals.
The changes in online vs offline are a nightmare for DS3 players. Players with pedals have less problems.
The main problem is that you feel like your rear tyres are always worn out online (even if they are fresh and good temp).
Doesn't matter what settings you use. Also tested it with offline tyre wearage and that is not it. There is DEFINATELY something strange going on there.
It is a enormous blow back for DS3 players.
The changes in online vs offline are a nightmare for DS3 players. Players with pedals have less problems.
The main problem is that you feel like your rear tyres are always worn out online (even if they are fresh and good temp).
Doesn't matter what settings you use. Also tested it with offline tyre wearage and that is not it. There is DEFINATELY something strange going on there.
It is a enormous blow back for DS3 players.
- 161
- Pyrone89
It is way off from realistic.
Don't know what these people are talking about but as someone who has raced these cars I can say it is absolutely ********.
It is the same story always, as soon as something becomes harder or more difficult to control people think it is more realistic.
They see the harder = the more realistic.
That is a false assumption
RamoSapiens
(Banned)
- 1,555
- GTF_Max
I´ve made a quick test, here´s the results:
Online(my lounge) - Trial Mountain Circuit
- Recommended car: Calsonic GT-R time: 1.21.708
- My own car (same GT-R)with my offline setups: 1.26.397
- My own car everything set to default 1.21.439
Then i went back offline to drive with the same car
on the same track with my normal offline tuning setups
- and whoops my time was 1.20.027
So the difference between offline and online with the same
tuning settings was over 6 seconds....
It seems to me that I´ll have to put everything to default
when Im using my own cars online....
Online(my lounge) - Trial Mountain Circuit
- Recommended car: Calsonic GT-R time: 1.21.708
- My own car (same GT-R)with my offline setups: 1.26.397
- My own car everything set to default 1.21.439
Then i went back offline to drive with the same car
on the same track with my normal offline tuning setups
- and whoops my time was 1.20.027
So the difference between offline and online with the same
tuning settings was over 6 seconds....
It seems to me that I´ll have to put everything to default
when Im using my own cars online....
- 1,106
- NC/NoVA
- dudeondacouch
^ Which year Calsonic GT-R, and what are your "offline setups"? (You can PM me your settings if you don't want to post them, but if you don't want to, you don't have to give them to me at all. I'd just like to run the same track with the same car and the same settings and see what it feels like to me, as those times are quite disparate.)
I find it interesting that your online lap time with your settings in a 500hp purpose-built racecar are less than a tenth of a second faster than my offline time in a 338hp FF street car.
I find it interesting that your online lap time with your settings in a 500hp purpose-built racecar are less than a tenth of a second faster than my offline time in a 338hp FF street car.
I just found this thread after coming away frustrated by the crappy handling of my online NSX-R vs the offline tuning I spent an hour on.
Things I have concluded:
1) There is a noticable difference in handling.
2) It seems to be only related to oversteer.
3) Its not cold tyres, as braking distances and corning speeds are the same.
I can only imagine there was a technical restriction in using the same engine online but they really should tell us these things. Next time I can waste hours of my life tuning my car in my lobby rather than practice mode. Thanks PD.
Things I have concluded:
1) There is a noticable difference in handling.
2) It seems to be only related to oversteer.
3) Its not cold tyres, as braking distances and corning speeds are the same.
I can only imagine there was a technical restriction in using the same engine online but they really should tell us these things. Next time I can waste hours of my life tuning my car in my lobby rather than practice mode. Thanks PD.
- 1,106
- NC/NoVA
- dudeondacouch
It's looking like only oversteer to you because you're driving a RWD car. It's a general slipperyness that serves to amplify the oversteer in a rear-driven car. If it was just oversteer, I could easily tune it out of a FWD car, but I can't.
RamoSapiens
(Banned)
- 1,555
- GTF_Max
Plz could U tune my GT-R to act normal when driving online??
- 1,106
- NC/NoVA
- dudeondacouch
No, that's the problem. If I could, I'd be my own hero!
I'll continue to work on it though. All I can tell you for now is to tune out some of the oversteer using the suspension and LSD and turn the TCS up a notch or two. Anything I find of specific benefit will get posted in this thread.
I wish that were the case mate, but the NSX is just the example I used here. I tried all my main cars, some of which being 4x4 and others being FF. I'm certainly not a noob and can tune to a degree, but if they have in fact attempted to recreate the cold tyre situation then they have failed miserably. Its not consistent or proportional enough.
- 1,106
- NC/NoVA
- dudeondacouch
You wish it were a general slipperyness? That doesn't make sense.
I wish it were just some oversteer, so I could tune it out. Regardless of what it is, I agree that it's not consistent. For example, some cars don't seem to suffer from it at all, and others (all NSX's in particular, but NOT limited to RWD vehicles) behave like you're driving on canola oil.
I wish it were just some oversteer, so I could tune it out. Regardless of what it is, I agree that it's not consistent. For example, some cars don't seem to suffer from it at all, and others (all NSX's in particular, but NOT limited to RWD vehicles) behave like you're driving on canola oil.
RamoSapiens
(Banned)
- 1,555
- GTF_Max
Now I think I found the answer!
When I drive my cars offline I use high front and low rear.
This setting is giving me 2 sec better times than default settings.
Stiff front , middle rear, camber 3/2 toe -0.2/0.2 and so on.
When I go online I only change the front to low(almost lowest).
Now I reach almost the same times as offline.( ca. 1 sec gap)
When I drive my cars offline I use high front and low rear.
This setting is giving me 2 sec better times than default settings.
Stiff front , middle rear, camber 3/2 toe -0.2/0.2 and so on.
When I go online I only change the front to low(almost lowest).
Now I reach almost the same times as offline.( ca. 1 sec gap)
RamoSapiens
(Banned)
- 1,555
- GTF_Max
Oh I forgot to mention the most important thing when driving online!!!!
In the first lap You´re tires are cold , so remember to take it easy,You only loose positions if you drive aggressive the first lap..
If I start from a lower position I always wait for the guys to
drive out, then often after the first lap I´m leading.
In the first lap You´re tires are cold , so remember to take it easy,You only loose positions if you drive aggressive the first lap..
If I start from a lower position I always wait for the guys to
drive out, then often after the first lap I´m leading.
RamoSapiens
(Banned)
- 1,555
- GTF_Max
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