- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Took the words right out of my mouth. And unless you're consistent enough to run laps at Indy, lap after lap within a couple of tenths, there's just way too many variables to make it close to accurate.
Car Of The Month Club! EVENTS COMPLETE
- Thread starter BrandonW77
- 812 comments
- 33,742 views
Took the words right out of my mouth. And unless you're consistent enough to run laps at Indy, lap after lap within a couple of tenths, there's just way too many variables to make it close to accurate.
- 12,018
- Indianapolis
- BrandonW77
Here's what testing shows. I did 10 laps in each car, eliminated my 5 worst laps and took an average of the best 5. There are a couple interesting results. The first is that while the new car only has 263tq it has 273hp, the broken in car at 271tq only has 271hp. This alone disproves my theory that a non-broken in car is at a disadvantage because it actually has more horsepowers.
The results:
Non Broken In best 5 laps (in the order they were achieved)
80.264
80.393
80.383
80.120
80.216
Average: 1:50.2752
Broken In best 5 laps (in the order they were achieved)
80.157
80.380
80.230
80.243
80.143
Average: 1:50.2306
Less than 5 hundredths difference in the average further indicates there is no tangible difference between a new car and a broken in car. My best lap actually came in the new car but you can see that all my laps in both cars were pretty much within a couple tenths of each other which is well within my margin of error for any given lap.
Now for the second interesting result which, in my opinion, also weakens the "better corner exit equals higher top speed at the end of the straight" theory. I did 22 laps and on every lap (save one) I was at 136mph across the start/finish line and at 145mph at the entrance to turn 1. Every lap, regardless of which car I was using and regardless of my corner exit.......same exact speed at both checkpoints. One lap I ticked 146mph but then proceeded to push wide in turn 1 and had a 1:50.7xx lap time, so that result is not relevant. Would this be the case in the real world? Certainly not, it's well proven that a better corner exit will lead to higher top speed. Could it be the case in GT5? Of course, it's still just a video game and far from a perfect analogy to the real world.
(per DSG's advice I did two more laps in the new car after testing was done, did a 50.2xx and a 50.3xx, no decrease in lap times after 20 laps of practice)
Moral of the story: There is no advantage to breaking in the car when we are limiting the PP to new car value + oil change, my earlier claim was incorrect. 👍
The results:
Non Broken In best 5 laps (in the order they were achieved)
80.264
80.393
80.383
80.120
80.216
Average: 1:50.2752
Broken In best 5 laps (in the order they were achieved)
80.157
80.380
80.230
80.243
80.143
Average: 1:50.2306
Less than 5 hundredths difference in the average further indicates there is no tangible difference between a new car and a broken in car. My best lap actually came in the new car but you can see that all my laps in both cars were pretty much within a couple tenths of each other which is well within my margin of error for any given lap.
Now for the second interesting result which, in my opinion, also weakens the "better corner exit equals higher top speed at the end of the straight" theory. I did 22 laps and on every lap (save one) I was at 136mph across the start/finish line and at 145mph at the entrance to turn 1. Every lap, regardless of which car I was using and regardless of my corner exit.......same exact speed at both checkpoints. One lap I ticked 146mph but then proceeded to push wide in turn 1 and had a 1:50.7xx lap time, so that result is not relevant. Would this be the case in the real world? Certainly not, it's well proven that a better corner exit will lead to higher top speed. Could it be the case in GT5? Of course, it's still just a video game and far from a perfect analogy to the real world.
(per DSG's advice I did two more laps in the new car after testing was done, did a 50.2xx and a 50.3xx, no decrease in lap times after 20 laps of practice)
Moral of the story: There is no advantage to breaking in the car when we are limiting the PP to new car value + oil change, my earlier claim was incorrect. 👍
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Great information. Too bad there's no way you can accurately measure straightline racing speeds because both cars corner at exactly the same speed...oh wait...
- 12,018
- Indianapolis
- BrandonW77
Autocross day!! Hope you guys have as much fun this afternoon as I do.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
My participation is doubtful today. Just swamped with work
dsgerbc
Premium
- 2,577
- dsgerbc
Hope you guys have as much fun this afternoon as I do.
Of course we will. It doesn't take much to top 5 minutes of driving
That said - I'm considering doing an Evo phase1 school in a month. It is close to me for once, and it's like 20+ runs in a day.
I'm 50-50 for to today at the moment. Have several errands to run.
dsgerbc
Premium
- 2,577
- dsgerbc
Did 8 20 laps around GP/D. My best was 1:47.7 1:47.1. Not sure it's a good target since my tire wear indicator was kinda darkish at the end, so possibly that's a time with tire warm-up bug. I like this car here, it's nice and loose when pushed (again, possibly skewed impression due to the bug).
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- 12,018
- Indianapolis
- BrandonW77
Of course we will. It doesn't take much to top 5 minutes of driving
That said - I'm considering doing an Evo phase1 school in a month. It is close to me for once, and it's like 20+ runs in a day.
Unfortunately is was more like 3 minutes, combined with 8 hours of standing in constant 40-50mph winds with the temp in the mid 30's F°. Not fun.
I'm going to a Solo School in two weeks, they say we get 20+ runs there so that should be much more enjoyable. 👍
- 3,207
- 7,765
- Yorkshire
- ScapeGoat4U
- WhippingBoy
I really didn't like the Audi on Sports Hard tyres, should've been on Comfort Soft imo. Couldn't find any kind of rhythm at Indy Road, & wasn't in the mood to race, so decided to leave. Couldn't race anyway as there was only 3 of us who turned up. I think the Saturday event is fizzling out...
- 12,018
- Indianapolis
- BrandonW77
- 2,184
- Ocho Rios
- Marcus__Garvey
My attendance has been a bit erratic lately as it often is this time of year. Saturdays are going to be here and there for me, but I should be in attendance most Tuesday's. Last Tuesday was an unusual absence for me.
I haven't even had GT5 on for more than a few minutes in the past week, so I'll have to try and get some time in before the races this week.
It is great to see you folks taking a more serious interest in the sport. It is even better to hear you are doing it right and taking a school early on. I highly recommend it for anyone who has run 3 events or more. The main reason I say that is because a lot of folks will develop bad habits early on without any instruction, and most introductory courses cover a lot of the basics that will get you up to speed very quickly.
I learned everything the traditional way; my first non-drag event was a driver's school. A good introductory course(such as Evolution Phase 1) is going to start off covering the basics of looking ahead, proper inputs, and spotting lines. From there a good instructor will tailour the learning curve to your particular level of proficiency and identify specific items that you need to work on. The most valueable method of learning is going to be having a very skilled instructor drive your car on course while you ride along. For my students, that is always when the light bulb turns on. It is a fun look to see in their face. If your local club/region allows ridealongs, by all means utilise that great resource and ride with as many of the quick drivers as you can.
A few bits to prepare. It's a lot of seat time, and if you learn well you will cover a lot in one day. I usually liken an effective one on one session for a day to be close in equivalence with regards to experience and proficiency gained to a full season of driving. Bring a proper pad and pen. Write everything down that you can recall between sessions, during lunch, and that evening. I still occasionally glance at notes I have from 10 years ago. Your instructors will from time to time spout little bits of information that just 'click' for you; write those down. You cannot possibly absorb and refine the execution of all the topics covered in a school, so the potential gain of your learning won't be realised until you have some events to build upon afterwards.
Be well rested and hydrated a day before the school. A good basic school is usually going to set you in the car straight off and lay down 3-5 runs on a mini course that will include a slolam, an offset or box, and a decreasing(or increasing) radius turn. Later on you'll usually run it in reverse to flip the radius. Some may have a separate slolam/skidpad/figure 8 as well. All day people will be telling you to look ahead. So be ready for that. It really is the most important thing(almost the only important thing) to be well practiced at in order to be successful. I can go on and on and on, but I don't want to drag the thread too far off so I won't. If anyone would like more information on specifics, I will gladly provide.
So, in summary; I highly recommend taking a driver's school for any level of driver. Whether it be with your local club, Evolution or SoloPro, or even with a region that has a Novice program; the experience will prove valuable. The best investment you can make to improve the speed of your car is you.
I haven't even had GT5 on for more than a few minutes in the past week, so I'll have to try and get some time in before the races this week.
Of course we will. It doesn't take much to top 5 minutes of driving
That said - I'm considering doing an Evo phase1 school in a month. It is close to me for once, and it's like 20+ runs in a day.
I'm 50-50 for to today at the moment. Have several errands to run.
It is great to see you folks taking a more serious interest in the sport. It is even better to hear you are doing it right and taking a school early on. I highly recommend it for anyone who has run 3 events or more. The main reason I say that is because a lot of folks will develop bad habits early on without any instruction, and most introductory courses cover a lot of the basics that will get you up to speed very quickly.
I learned everything the traditional way; my first non-drag event was a driver's school. A good introductory course(such as Evolution Phase 1) is going to start off covering the basics of looking ahead, proper inputs, and spotting lines. From there a good instructor will tailour the learning curve to your particular level of proficiency and identify specific items that you need to work on. The most valueable method of learning is going to be having a very skilled instructor drive your car on course while you ride along. For my students, that is always when the light bulb turns on. It is a fun look to see in their face. If your local club/region allows ridealongs, by all means utilise that great resource and ride with as many of the quick drivers as you can.
A few bits to prepare. It's a lot of seat time, and if you learn well you will cover a lot in one day. I usually liken an effective one on one session for a day to be close in equivalence with regards to experience and proficiency gained to a full season of driving. Bring a proper pad and pen. Write everything down that you can recall between sessions, during lunch, and that evening. I still occasionally glance at notes I have from 10 years ago. Your instructors will from time to time spout little bits of information that just 'click' for you; write those down. You cannot possibly absorb and refine the execution of all the topics covered in a school, so the potential gain of your learning won't be realised until you have some events to build upon afterwards.
Be well rested and hydrated a day before the school. A good basic school is usually going to set you in the car straight off and lay down 3-5 runs on a mini course that will include a slolam, an offset or box, and a decreasing(or increasing) radius turn. Later on you'll usually run it in reverse to flip the radius. Some may have a separate slolam/skidpad/figure 8 as well. All day people will be telling you to look ahead. So be ready for that. It really is the most important thing(almost the only important thing) to be well practiced at in order to be successful. I can go on and on and on, but I don't want to drag the thread too far off so I won't. If anyone would like more information on specifics, I will gladly provide.
So, in summary; I highly recommend taking a driver's school for any level of driver. Whether it be with your local club, Evolution or SoloPro, or even with a region that has a Novice program; the experience will prove valuable. The best investment you can make to improve the speed of your car is you.
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dsgerbc
Premium
- 2,577
- dsgerbc
My interest in autox is way past it's prime. I'll probably still do evo1, cause it's a decent amount of seat time with high-quality instructors, so it seems like money well spent in it's own right.
Good advice nonetheless.
- 4
- Millingen aan de Rijn
- Gran-Dutch
I will be there tommorow with the 'MAZDA ROADSTER TC'.!
Saterday's will be difficult for me to join, becouse i will be in another lobby then,(Strating at the same hour) or i'm not at home.
When i have time to join on Saterday, i will let you guy's now a day before the race.!
Saterday's will be difficult for me to join, becouse i will be in another lobby then,(Strating at the same hour) or i'm not at home.
When i have time to join on Saterday, i will let you guy's now a day before the race.!
dsgerbc
Premium
- 2,577
- dsgerbc
That's 2am your time. Just saving you the effort of converting...
- 4
- Millingen aan de Rijn
- Gran-Dutch
- 12,018
- Indianapolis
- BrandonW77
Sorry, that's only on Saturday's. Unfortunately on Tuesdays most of us will still be at work at 8pm Dutch Time. If I could convince my boss to let me leave at 1pm on Tuesdays then we could race with you guys during the week, but he's not going for it just yet.
I'll have the lounge open this evening between 7 and 7:30pm EDT 'Merican Time. I've been wanting to race the Roadster TC ever since I bought it....hope it doesn't disappoint!
- 4
- Millingen aan de Rijn
- Gran-Dutch
Sorry, that's only on Saturday's. Unfortunately on Tuesdays most of us will still be at work at 8pm Dutch Time. If I could convince my boss to let me leave at 1pm on Tuesdays then we could race with you guys during the week, but he's not going for it just yet.
I'll have the lounge open this evening between 7 and 7:30pm EDT 'Merican Time. I've been wanting to race the Roadster TC ever since I bought it....hope it doesn't disappoint!
I go online in a couple hours. ill be online for the rest of the evening.. Maybe i will join you guy's this evening/night .! Depence on how tired i will be of course
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Just did a few laps myself and the tires never did warm up for me either. GP/D wasn't the start up tracj either, I had to change to it.
As sometimes happens with some cars, I dislike this car a lot, while I know a lot of people have a real fondness for it. Given that it's a racecar with downforce, I've always thought that it should handle much better than it does. I just find it overall very sluggish and slow to respond. Hopefully that effect isn't magnified in traffic with aero push
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- 648
- torzilla
Dude its a Miata!
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
- 12,018
- Indianapolis
- BrandonW77
The lounge is open, racing will begin around 8pm EDT with the Mazda Roadster TC.
- 1,300
- Indiana
- Naptown25rs
Great racing tonight... I was a little skeptical about the Roadster TC in spec form, but it produced some great battles all around.
Sadly it took until the last race for me to get my BAC to the proper level to put in a good run, oh well...
Sadly it took until the last race for me to get my BAC to the proper level to put in a good run, oh well...
- 7,711
- Indiana-USA
- OwensRacing
Sorry missed tonight.
Got a lot on my mind. My 15 yr old dog is not doing well and that has me pretty flustered.
Hoping the old boy can dig deep and pull through being ill. It's tough seeing him not having thrift. Old man has had a great life though. I really worry about my two boys. They came in this world and was raised with him. The dog slept with my kids every night for the last several years. My oldest will be devastated. Which I did get two young dogs so they will have them to hold on to when the time comes.
Got a lot on my mind. My 15 yr old dog is not doing well and that has me pretty flustered.
Hoping the old boy can dig deep and pull through being ill. It's tough seeing him not having thrift. Old man has had a great life though. I really worry about my two boys. They came in this world and was raised with him. The dog slept with my kids every night for the last several years. My oldest will be devastated. Which I did get two young dogs so they will have them to hold on to when the time comes.
- 12,018
- Indianapolis
- BrandonW77
Great racing tonight... I was a little skeptical about the Roadster TC in spec form, but it produced some great battles all around.
Sadly it took until the last race for me to get my BAC to the proper level to put in a good run, oh well...
I had a great time last night too, really enjoyed pushing the car just a bit past the limit and then reeling it back in. I had no real issues with it that weren't self-induced. Good stuff.
@Owens, sorry to hear that bud. Losing a family pet is one of the most difficult things we can go through, especially as children. I've been through it 3 times and it never gets easier. Hope the boys hold up well and the puppies provide them the comfort they need.
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