Chemtrails?

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You guys say the same thing that I say, the only nit pic exception seems to be trivial at best. I think it's common sense to think it's easily possible to spray this or that which is the point, could be a bit harder but no proof is required imo.

If it's mind control or whatever other willy I laugh, if it's weather control I still laugh. The whole thing is a joke but it's a bigger joke for you two to run rickshaw on me :lol:

Whatever đź‘Ť
 
Of course you would, you say yourself 'crop duster' but only you can use that?
Anyone can use Cropduster, but a cropduster doesn't make Chem-trails

LOL I never said anything about 3 miles or for miles and miles or whatever you try to trap me in.
Trap you? It would seem you managed that yourself. Chem-trails (by the definition outlined by those who claim they exist) are disguised to look like con-trails, but those in the 'know' can tell the difference (apparently). Given that contrails occur at heights of over three miles that would kind of rule out a crop-duster, and no its not 'easy' to disperse anything from a plane at this height.

You should probably go back and read all of my posts in this thread, even though you won't.
I have, unfortunately its time I can't now get back at all.

You repeatedly claim that its 'easy' to disperse chemicals from a plane at high altitude, but you can't actually support that (despite members with backgrounds in aeronautics/engineering pointing out that its not easy - but don't worry ill informed opinion always beats informed knowledge - ohh wait).
 
Fine, IMPOSSIBRU.

You've missed my point all along which is fine.
You don't believe in Chem-trails.
You don't think its being done
You think many easier ways to 'dose' a population exist
You think it would be 'easy' and 'common sense' to adapt a plane to deliver chem-trails

Which one have I missed (and be specific)?
 
You covered it all, so why beat on me?
What!

You said I had missed the point, I was simply checking that I was aware of them all. I will be honest, your posting style makes it far from clear who you are talking to and about what. As such the attitude is not really required.
 
Given that contrails occur at heights of over three miles

That's literally true but I inferred from your statement that they only occur at those heights. Contrails can be generated at sea level in the correct conditions.
 
That is not true, they can form even on the ground level if the required conditions are met. See the link for example: http://www.airliners.net/photo/Cana...65339/L/&sid=1d4ef58446ae405e1c59e1c7e566aec0
I actually have seen in Ice road truckers tv-show that even trucks can cause a sort of "contrails" if it is enough cold.
...And all this suggest again that chemtrail theory is completely nonsense :sly:
OK - in the most common of circumstance (and the ones that last for long periods of time that some people like to claim are chem-trails) they occur at heights above 3 miles.

The can however occur at lower altitudes, but for much shorter durations and in much more specific circumstance.

Think I covered all bases in that one.
 
Then again, we have to worry about the various bio-engineering experiments by the DoD, NSA and various other nefarious agencies:


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This thread makes my head hurt. Why? I'm a conspiracy theorist. Yup, I said it. I have heard of chem-trails before and thought they could be happening. After all the facts and figures and intelligence being thrown around, I no longer do. But it amazes me that some people can have all the facts and figures that disprove the theory, and still not change their mind. It's pretty easy to do. I honestly believe that peoples pride will forever cloud their judgments. Oh well. Thank you guys for changing the mind of at least one tin foil hat wearing nutjob on this topic. đź‘Ť
 
@Scaff. Because i've been misquoted (without being QUOTE="Enemem"). And the logic flaw in all your arguments seem to be the same, and I repeat

Because we know why contrails form, because it's proven, then anything that looks like a contrail, is a contrail and cannot be disputed.
That logic is shocking.

http://[domain blocked due to malware]/instances/250x250/9334696.jpg
 
I'm sorry... but who is this "we" you speak of?

Muricans duh. Wake up man they're out there!:crazy:

This thread makes my head hurt. Why? I'm a conspiracy theorist. Yup, I said it. I have heard of chem-trails before and thought they could be happening. After all the facts and figures and intelligence being thrown around, I no longer do. But it amazes me that some people can have all the facts and figures that disprove the theory, and still not change their mind. It's pretty easy to do. I honestly believe that peoples pride will forever cloud their judgments. Oh well. Thank you guys for changing the mind of at least one tin foil hat wearing nutjob on this topic. đź‘Ť

So am I to a degree, but I actually research my crap before I go on this exploration of pretending to ask a question so I don't out myself as a nut job of sorts with, no backing and my fingers in my ear not listening. Then actually take the side of the conspiracy and show my true colors so...yeah there are a couple out there that I may believe but that's because those people are actually trying to do a job and prove them, while these people I don't really know...

also I don't get how I could show evidence from sources that weather manipulator exist and yet squadrops still doesn't believe it does...yet his "common sense" tell him that crop dusters and dump chemicals outside their ceiling limit...

Wow sometimes people who want to be taken serious but don't do a job to show why they should be, give me a chuckle.
 
Researching conspiracy theories isn't all that easy. I'll say that. Its hard to acquire information in this day and age because of how flooded with garbage the internet has become. Do an internet search trying to disprove chemtrails, and you get 1,000 links with a thousand ideas trying to prove chemtrails existence. Try it. I just binged 'disproving chemtrails' and only two links talk about the actual search criteria, out of the ten provided. You get the same with anything else conspiracy related. I can't blame people for their questions or their beliefs. Its just hard to find good information unless you have direct access.

However, I personally find it ignorant to ask for information and then ignore like you're too good for it. Which has run rampant, in my opinion. I have read every post and every link in this thread. At this point, I feel a little silly for believing in chemtrails in the first place. But most people aren't willing to accept loss gracefully as I feel i do. I think that is what we are seeing with the bickering. Its the only thing I find it be the logical answer to this insanity. People can't admit their faults or loss of the intellectual battle.

Just my two cents on the OP overall and the ruffled feathers this discussion has obviously caused.

Drops the mic
 
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Researching conspiracy theories isn't all that easy. I'll say that. Its hard to acquire information in this day and age because of how flooded with garbage the internet has become. Do an internet search trying to disprove chemtrails, and you get 1,000 links with a thousand ideas trying to prove chemtrails existence. Try it. I just binged 'disproving chemtrails' and only two links talk about the actual search criteria, out of the ten provided. You get the same with anything else conspiracy related. I can't blame people for their questions or their beliefs. Its just hard to find good information unless you have direct access.

Yeah but there are many television channels in the states alone on cable, dish, hulu that talk about various conspiracy and some are respectable channels that obviously have people who research this stuff. Thus using that alone is better than some random youtube video.

However, I personally find it ignorant to ask for information and then ignore like you're too good for it. Which has run rampant, in my opinion. I have read every post and every link in this thread. At this point, I feel a little silly for believing in chemtrails in the first place. But most people aren't willing to accept loss gracefully as I feel i do. I think that is what we are seeing with the bickering. Its the only thing I find it be the logical answer to this insanity. People can't admit their faults or loss of the intellectual battle.

Just my two cents on the OP overall and the ruffled feathers this discussion has obviously caused.

Drops the mic

Rest you've said I couldn't have done any better myself, ya done good.
 
Yeah but there are many television channels in the states alone on cable, dish, hulu that talk about various conspiracy and some are respectable channels that obviously have people who research this stuff. Thus using that alone is better than some random youtube video.

Just for debates sake on the topic of researching chemtrails and staying revelant to the OP.

The problem with those channels that you refer to is their are not any better than YouTube. For everyone one that supply's fact, there is six supplying BS for ratings. You're stuck obtaining knowledge of the subject, but in no way knowing if it's accurate. Should I believe Fox news? CNN? The BBC. I have a hard time believing in news at face value because they will embellish facts. They do have agendas. Take the Sandy Hook shootings. I'm still wondering who it was running away from the scene. Conspiracy, maybe. Bad reporting, probably. Ignored, sure enough. Hell, the reports on the Boston Marathon had as many as five bombings. They misreported a basement fire as an act of terrorism. It was acknowledged on air, for three seconds. News, documentaries, media as a whole shows of the side of any topic as they see it. I just can't trust that. I back the Op's question for that reason. "Let's start a conversation on the matter of chemtrails." I don't stand up for, "well, I don't believe all the facts and irrefutable evidence that proves this bs."

That's why I thanked the group in the first place. Unbiased, backed up information. Something I feel is missing in most, if not all, of the media outlets out there. Media that is guilty of making the nutjobs like me as they are for bashing us. Plus, chemtrails isn't as covered by the media nearly at all. At least not in my travels. So, reading and learning about a topic that is still under the radar is refreshing. Not everything has to aliens and 9/11.

I am a nutjob, but I still believe in facts.
 
I'm sorry... but who is this "we" you speak of?

I think @BobK meant people in general and used a normal phrase to express that.

There isn't any doubt that governments have used chemical testing and/or seed testing whilst knowing that a general populace might be affected; review this thread for more information on that.
 
Just for debates sake on the topic of researching chemtrails and staying revelant to the OP.

The problem with those channels that you refer to is their are not any better than YouTube. For everyone one that supply's fact, there is six supplying BS for ratings. You're stuck obtaining knowledge of the subject, but in no way knowing if it's accurate. Should I believe Fox news? CNN? The BBC. I have a hard time believing in news at face value because they will embellish facts. They do have agendas. Take the Sandy Hook shootings. I'm still wondering who it was running away from the scene. Conspiracy, maybe. Bad reporting, probably. Ignored, sure enough. Hell, the reports on the Boston Marathon had as many as five bombings. They misreported a basement fire as an act of terrorism. It was acknowledged on air, for three seconds. News, documentaries, media as a whole shows of the side of any topic as they see it. I just can't trust that. I back the Op's question for that reason. "Let's start a conversation on the matter of chemtrails." I don't stand up for, "well, I don't believe all the facts and irrefutable evidence that proves this bs."

That's why I thanked the group in the first place. Unbiased, backed up information. Something I feel is missing in most, if not all, of the media outlets out there. Media that is guilty of making the nutjobs like me as they are for bashing us. Plus, chemtrails isn't as covered by the media nearly at all. At least not in my travels. So, reading and learning about a topic that is still under the radar is refreshing. Not everything has to aliens and 9/11.

I am a nutjob, but I still believe in facts.

It is a difficult thing to do, which is why looking at the source of everything is always a good idea as is digging under the surface, but you have hit the nail on the head in terms of one thing and that is facts. Fact check everything, as you would be surprised how much basic stuff gets missed by conspiracy theorists.

As far as news sites go, well the do range from the better (BBC at a push) to the very dubious (Huffington Post and Russia Today), and the trick is to check as many as you can as a starting point. The other thing to keep in mind is that all of them are after ratings and will only focus on a news piece for as long as they get that or it will draw in a target audience. The often held argument that topic A is not covered because the government got to the press is often in reality simply a case that it wasn't a draw for the target audience, these are after all businesses.

One site I find that can help is rational.wiki, its generally helpful in terms of common flaws in arguments, but often even a basic bit of digging will need more work; my links to papers on Contrails is an example. You soon get the idea of what to look for and where.
 
It is a difficult thing to do, which is why looking at the source of everything is always a good idea as is digging under the surface, but you have hit the nail on the head in terms of one thing and that is facts. Fact check everything, as you would be surprised how much basic stuff gets missed by conspiracy theorists.

Didn't you know, conspiracy theorists are in the Olympic games. We compete in the long jump. :lol: I'm guilty of this. I did this with chemtrails. I heard about them and immediately jumped on the band wagon. It's neither sane or logical. But that's how the mind of theorists work. The Guv'ment and Illuminati are always up to no good. But I have the mind to find out if my jumping to conclusions is justified or not.

As far as news sites go, well the do range from the better (BBC at a push) to the very dubious (Huffington Post and Russia Today), and the trick is to check as many as you can as a starting point. The other thing to keep in mind is that all of them are after ratings and will only focus on a news piece for as long as they get that or it will draw in a target audience. The often held argument that topic A is not covered because the government got to the press is often in reality simply a case that it wasn't a draw for the target audience, these are after all businesses.

The news goes vary. It can be fantastically interesting to Nancy Grace. That's exactly why I do employ the method of watching several news agencies when I can. During the Boston Bombings, I watched each channel in intervals. You can pick up on what ideas every channel has in common. Then you can piece together your own idea based on those standings. It's the true first step to researching any current event/conspiracy theory. This doesn't work on topics like chemtrails however. If, and that is a huge if, the news covers chemtrails, it's usually a joke piece. Akin to a squirrel riding on a RC boat. It gets two minutes and usually ends with anchors laughing like they were forced to. It's just not big news. Also, who wants to do a news story where your target audience are a bunch of "weirdos". Do I believe that this is the government or powers that be are to blame for this. Are they keeping the secrets off the air on purpose? Part of me wants to believe that. That part that jumps to conclusions. But you are ultimately correct. It's just bad business. There isn't enough of us "weirdos" to fill a demographic. Plain and simple

One site I find that can help is rational.wiki, its generally helpful in terms of common flaws in arguments, but often even a basic bit of digging will need more work; my links to papers on Contrails is an example. You soon get the idea of what to look for and where.

I hadn't heard of rational.wiki before you mentioned it. But isn't saying much. I may be a theorist, but it doesn't overtake my life. I research topics only when I learn about them. And again, that's following the usual avenues. I try to dig, but I give up after the garbage of the internet buries me. With that being said, I found rational.wiki to be a rather ok place to start from now on. I like because it gives you information on the theory and to some degree the reasons it may be bogus.However, I find their conclusions in disproving a theory not to be all that conclusive.

Example: Their opening statement on the debunking of the chemtrail theory.

The very existence of the Grand Conspiracy required to administer chemtrails may be challenged on the basis of the difficulty of maintaining such a conspiracy for so long. Aerial spraying from high-altitude would be an extremely inefficient and inexact mode of delivering chemicals to ground-based targets. Pesticides, for example, are often sprayed on crops from airplanes flying at thirty feet. Wide-area mosquito spraying may be done from an altitude of 150 feet. Chemtrails are supposedly deposited at 30,000 feet or higher, where winds would likely disperse them unpredictably. If there were a campaign to introduce foreign chemicals to the population, it would be simpler and more effective to put them in the water supply (seewater fluoridation), or the food supply; or if inhalation were necessary, to release them from ground-based vehicles — have you seen the smoke coming suspiciously out of some cars?

Does that make you feel confident in a decision that chemtrails do not exist? I sure don't. I mean, think about this as a counter point: If there is a huge conspiracy to disperse chemicals to a large population, would you really care if they were dispersed over a unpredictable area? I wouldn't assume that if America wanted to disperse a chemical, they would just want to affect Denver for example. Who cares if Wyoming gets hit? Their argument isn't blowing holes in anything I would want to believe. The site itself, in my opinion, seems to have a overtone of mocking to it. Why would I want to figure out a theory completely based on a site that pretty much calls me stupid for believing in the theory. An example of this;

Discussion tropes
  • People who disbelieve in chemtrails "with so much overwhelming evidence" are sheeple.
  • The "overwhelming evidence" will be skimpy indeed.
  • "In the 1970s contrails lasted only a few minutes" (this is incorrect).
  • Links to YouTube videos where the uploader removes rebuttals against the cranks, followed by Photoshopped videos of "chemtrail vents" on commercial airplanes.
  • Naturalnews claims that chemtrails, unlike contrails, "linger for hours or whole days." Furthermore, while contrails "are very white and somewhat thinly textured," chemtrails "tend to be thicker and wider than contrails, and their white plumes can be tainted with slight discolorations."[22] Both claims are incorrect.

In my opinion, that just sounds condescending. I agree theorists can be nutty. But to shove us and our thoughts under a carpet is just plain wrong. Our ideas do have some basis in reality. Heck, maybe were right about somethings. I am willing to debate just about anything I believe in. But I can't do that if people just assume I am an uneducated good for nothing. If you assume that I and my theories are nutty just because, you are only showing your own ignorance and bigotry. Again, I like the idea behind rational.wiki and I do feel it's a good place to start. However, do I feel this site is unconditionally right. Not a chance. Further digging, as you said Scaff, is necessary. Which leads me back to the internet and what limited resources I can scrounge together at the library. Which is essentially side A blowing the side B out of the water with facts. Then side B diluting those facts of side A with thought provoking counters.

If it wasn't for some of the information provided on this thread, I would still be a believer in chemtrails in one fashion or another. Cloud-seeding still seems possible, might I add. :eek:


EDIT: I don't think I had this much to say in the first two years of my membership combined. LOL
 
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This thread makes my head hurt. Why? I'm a conspiracy theorist. Yup, I said it. I have heard of chem-trails before and thought they could be happening. After all the facts and figures and intelligence being thrown around, I no longer do. But it amazes me that some people can have all the facts and figures that disprove the theory, and still not change their mind. It's pretty easy to do. I honestly believe that peoples pride will forever cloud their judgments. Oh well. Thank you guys for changing the mind of at least one tin foil hat wearing nutjob on this topic. đź‘Ť
There was a study done on this (I forget the name) but it found that if you took a group of people some believing and some not believing the theory and proved to them that the theory is false beyond doubt then a year later the number of people believing the theory will have risen.
 
That doesn't surprise me actually. Its sad, but its not surprising. It seems to be human nature to question everything that you yourself hasn't proved.
 
That doesn't surprise me actually. Its sad, but its not surprising. It seems to be human nature to question everything that you yourself hasn't proved.
Part of the reason comes from the very handy ability humans have to recognise patterns, unfortunately with this also comes false pattern recognition.

Now people wanting to question everything is good, the issue is often the standard of evidence they use to try and do so, and you can then get a heady mix of poor
research/evidence compounded by a layer of conformation bias and false pattern recognition. The key ingredients for conspiracy theories.

Always keep in mind that the burden of proof lays with the one making the claim, so when a Chem-trails claim is made its perfectly valid to ask that proof (to a scientific standard) is requested of the one making the claim, particularly as that claim is held up against well documented science (contrails) that does have a vast amount of supporting scientific evidence. A common CT rebuttal is that you can't prove them wrong, well sorry but it simply doesn't work that way, they are the ones who need to validate the claim (the scientific method at work).

Now in regard to rationalwiki, yes it can be a bit blunt at times (and it is certainly only a starting point) but in regard to Chem-trails I don't really blame them, it has zero evidence (of a scientific standard) to back it up at all. The science of contrails is well researched (and continues) and clearly covers all of the claimed 'chem-trail' claims. As a method of delivery it is too shotgun to be effective (why would this 'group' target themselves as well as the population at large - when simpler more targeted delivery methods already exist), not to mention that governments do have a track record of utterly failing to keep secret projects secret. If the US government can't manage it with something like listening in on people (which actually involves a relatively small number of people involved) how would they manage it with something that would involve 'doseing' the world and involves hundreds of thousands of people?
 
It seems to be human nature to question everything that you yourself hasn't haven't proved.

I like this because it goes to the question of how I know what I know.

If I were to construct a hierarchy of credibility of knowledge, the highest rank would go to my first person experience.

A crude example: If I were driving in my car and came to a fork in the road, had to decide which way to go, and:
- My map told me to turn left.
- My GPS told me to turn left.
- My passengers including my mother, brother and son told me to turn left.
- The policeman at the intersection pointed left and shouted "Turn left!"
- I could see the road to the left was washed out and entailed an immediate drop into a deep canyon.

Guess what? I would turn right.
 
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I remember a psychological test that I saw described; the subject is placed with a group of peers alongside a questioner. A number of drum beats are played (or something count-able but non-persistent happens).

In turn the group are asked "how many"? Each member in turn gives, by pre-agreement, the wrong answer by one (eg they all say 8 instead of 9). Inevitably the subject will concur with their peers. Those who don't are worth watching for one reason or another :D
 
The requirement on you was quite clear, you have failed to take any notice and instead post up yet more opinion dressed up as fact.

Your Dr for example in the last piece has a doctorate in Art History (which qualifies her in aeronautical and chemistry is what way I wonder) and after working as an Art History lecturer she became a herbalist.
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/any-real-degree-for-ilya-sandra-perlingieri.197/


As such your desire to treat the AUP as optional can lead to only one outcome.

Goodbye.

Now for anyone actually interested in the topic in a sensible manner: http://contrailscience.com/
 
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The worst part about these kinds of threads is that now that he's banned it'll just further galvanize his opinion because clearly the Illuminati have paid off GTP's mods.
 
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