Civil Rights Movement encroaches on rights?

[Tornado]

Ehhh, yeah I actually am. Hitlers problem wasn't the banning of certain views, certain types of music etc...

Are you seriously that ignorant? Or are you saying that it would have alright that Hitler did those things, so long as he didn't start killing people?


Hitler did every one of those things in addition to rounding up Jews, blacks, homosexuals, gypsies, handicapped, and etc. and killing them. The genocide was just the ultimate result of being in a society that allowed him to do things of that nature. I suggest you look up a bit more about Nazi Germany beyond just the Holocaust, particularly if you're going to bring it up in an argument for why what Hitler did is an example of why we should do the same. Also, referring to Hitler as "kind of racist" is a bit like saying the Pacific Ocean is "kind of wet."

So, it's poor form of me, to 'invoke Godwin's Law', in a discussion, when other people calling me fascists are considered mature, and probably even wise? Really?

Pretty much, yeah. Helps that you keep advocating concepts of governance inseparable from facism.

P.S.: I would read about Godwin's law before making a statement like yours. I never invoked any law, you did.

Look up "invoked" while you're at it. By bringing up Hitler to try to give your argument more merit and paint homosexuals as the more disenfranchised group than black people, that's exactly what you did.

Anyway, the fact that it was harder doesn't make it less important. Like I said before, because other minorities were suppressed, doesn't mean suppression of any minority nowadays is okay. :/

Said after explaining the justification for suppressing a minority.

 

[1241Penguin]

Ehhh, yeah I actually am. Hitlers problem wasn't the banning of certain views, certain types of music etc... The problem was that he was kind of racist.

Doesn't this = racist?

 

[arora]

She thinks limiting free speech will equate to equality, that's the whole argument and it's carried over from the homosexual thread.

Here's something to think about, here in the United States we have a black president, we also have factions of the kkk going strong.

 

[Gonales]

Are you seriously that ignorant? Or are you saying that it would have alright that Hitler did those things, so long as he didn't start killing people?

Yes, I think I could care less which music got banned etc etc, if he had not done anything except that. He had good ideas as well, you know?

Hitler did every one of those things in addition to rounding up Jews, blacks, homosexuals, gypsies, handicapped, and etc. and killing them. The genocide was just the ultimate result of being in a society that allowed him to do things of that nature. I suggest you look up a bit more about Nazi Germany beyond just the Holocaust, particularly if you're going to bring it up in an argument for why what Hitler did is an example of why we should do the same. Also, referring to Hitler as "kind of racist" is a bit like saying the Pacific Ocean is "kind of wet."

I know quite enough of the time of Nazi Germany. I KNOW exactly what he did. The emboldened text shows you the problem. The people were seriously unhappy, which is the only reason he got to power. And I'm saying that it's not the fact that Hitler did it, that it is a good thing. I'm saying, that there are far worse things in life than subtle and unimportant laws. (Unimportant for most people, but very good for other people).

Pretty much, yeah. Helps that you keep advocating concepts of governance inseparable from facism.

I'm sorry, but is fascism not a concept, that once uttered reminds instantly of Adolf Hitler?

Look up "invoked" while you're at it. By bringing up Hitler to try to give your argument more merit and paint homosexuals as the more disenfranchised group than black people, that's exactly what you did.

Yeah, I brought up Hitler. Yes, I did so to make a point. I also looked up the guys law, which states that if YOU consider my point to be invalid, YOU could invoke Godwin's Law, and state that I am the 'loser' of this debate. THAT is what the Law is about.

Said after explaining the justification for suppressing a minority.

Yeah, but in a totally different context. PLUS, I'm not suppressing a minority. Small difference.

Doesn't this = racist?

"Racism is usually defined as views, practices and actions reflecting the belief that humanity is divided into distinct biological groups called races and that members of a certain race share certain attributes which make that group as a whole less desirable, more desirable, inferior or superior."

Banning of certain views, and ideas has nothing to do with the fact who thinks them, so can have no connotation whatseover, to racism.

She thinks limiting free speech will equate to equality, that's the whole argument and it's carried over from the homosexual thread.

Yeah, although you're changing statements I made in the other thread. Does not change that fact that I still believe in restriction of speech.

Here's something to think about, here in the United States we have a black president, we also have factions of the kkk going strong.

Here is something to think about: The fact that those factions grow stronger is disgusting. All the people in favor of the KKK ideology, should get some serious rehabilitation imo. :/ And yes, I know you people think that that goes to far, but frankly, I don't really care.

 

[1241Penguin]

"Racism is usually defined as views, practices and actions reflecting the belief that humanity is divided into distinct biological groups called races and that members of a certain race share certain attributes which make that group as a whole less desirable, more desirable, inferior or superior."

...

Banning of certain views, and ideas has nothing to do with the fact who thinks them, so can have no connotation whatseover, to racism.

Are these not actions?

 

[Azuremen]

Here is something to think about: The fact that those factions grow stronger is disgusting. All the people in favor of the KKK ideology, should get some serious rehabilitation imo. :/ And yes, I know you people think that that goes to far, but frankly, I don't really care.

I could bother wasting time responding to the rest of your post, but I'm starting to think it is pointless. I mean, did you just suggest Hitler had some good ideas?

Also, fascism I associate with the Italians, you know?

As for what I quoted, you realize you are just as narrow minded as those in the KKK? You're attitude is just as extreme as theirs, simply on the other end of the spectrum. Do you know why the US is one of the most ethnically diverse countries in the world, and certainly more so than Germany or Belgium, is because the US has laws in place to protect the rights of everyone (for the most part), not a few.

Oh, and I'm still waiting for you elaborate on what your "good" idea of living in the US is like.

 

[McLaren]

I don't live in the U.S.A., but I do have a general idea of what is it like to live there. Wouldn't want to tbh. And the fact that some states, (like 5, maybe), grant homosexuals the same rights as straight people... still makes it 1/10. I wouldn't be proud of that tbh.

I'd like to know what this idea is as well.

Yeah, although you're changing statements I made in the other thread. Does not change that fact that I still believe in restriction of speech.

There is a restriction of free speech in America already. What you seem to want is a restriction of people having certain views/opinions that you don't agree with or like. At least, that's what I've gotten from your posts.

 

[Tornado]

Yes, I think I could care less which music got banned etc etc, if he had not done anything except that. He had good ideas as well, you know?

"I object to being called a Fascist, but Hitler had some good ideas."



And no he didn't, by the way. Even the things that on a good day could even remotely be construed as "good ideas" were come to because of (and executed under the pretext of) his extremely racist ideologies. The man was building Germany in his preferred image of a perfect Germany for no other reason than his belief in Eugenics.
Or, you know. Racism.


And by the way, even the things he did get banned that you couldn't care less about, he got banned by demonizing the people who made them. Music was banned in Germany if it was composed by a Jew, for example. But no big deal, right?

I'm sorry, but is fascism not a concept, that once uttered reminds instantly of Adolf Hitler?

No more than Communism instantly reminds of Stalin instead of, say, Brezhnev. Nazi Germany wasn't the only Facist state at the time. It wasn't the only Facist state of the Axis Powers. It wasn't even the most Facist state of the Axis Powers, nor was Facism an idea that Hitler was particularly enamored with compared to his buddy Mussolini.

Yes, I did so to make a point. I also looked up the guys law, which states that if YOU consider my point to be invalid, YOU could invoke Godwin's Law, and state that I am the 'loser' of this debate. THAT is what the Law is about.

The irony of which seems to be lost on you, since you were the one who invoked it under that pretext:

Forgetting Adolf, and his campaign, maybe?

To shutter arguments against you.

Yeah, but in a totally different context. PLUS, I'm not suppressing a minority. Small difference.

No, in an identical context (as has already been explained to you); and you are advocating such suppression.

No difference.

 

[Pupik]

Yeah, but I mean... Why the hell would coloured people be 'more' oppressed than homosexual ones, coloured or not? Just because there are more? That statement really makes no sense. :s

Look, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt because English probably isn't your first language. However, you really sound as if you've caught some sort of disease that makes you put your own foot so deep within your own mouth, that you'll never be able to drive a manual transmission vehicle again.

Walk a mile in someone's shoes before you even think you understand their plight, if you're going to marginalize everyone else's past or present issues such that your own are obviously worth stopping the world for.

 

[Gonales]

...

Are these not actions?

Yes, but they are NOT actions based on race. That's the difference.

I could bother wasting time responding to the rest of your post, but I'm starting to think it is pointless. I mean, did you just suggest Hitler had some good ideas?

Also, fascism I associate with the Italians, you know?

Yes, you do, but a lot of people don't associate it that way. And yes, Hitler HAD some good ideas. (Points at Volkswagen, Highways, etc... Besides the fact that he was quite a brilliant tactician.)

As for what I quoted, you realize you are just as narrow minded as those in the KKK? You're attitude is just as extreme as theirs, simply on the other end of the spectrum. Do you know why the US is one of the most ethnically diverse countries in the world, and certainly more so than Germany or Belgium, is because the US has laws in place to protect the rights of everyone (for the most part), not a few.

Maybe, my opinion is just as extreme as the KKK, but not as narrow minded. And yes, I do know why it is such a diverse country. But to state that it is more diverse then Belgium, or Germany, isn't right. And the U.S. has laws in place, with lots of gaps in it. For example, in your opinion I should be able to insult everyone I want, and I don't agree with that.

I'd like to know what this idea is as well.

People are a lot more protective, closed and probably a lot ruder than in Europe. And a lot more narrow minded. I mean, just the topic of guns for example. When I first heard about this, I found it a very good idea. Then I heard a LOT of Americans were against it. Which... had me face-palming once again.

There is a restriction of free speech in America already. What you seem to want is a restriction of people having certain views/opinions that you don't agree with or like. At least, that's what I've gotten from your posts.

Yes, I know there are some restrictions, which I clearly applaud. But members of the staff think they should be thrown away as well.
No, I want restrictions towards the freedom to insult others as much as people please. Basically, I want people not to be able to be complete assholes just because they feel like it. Very bad idea, right? :/

"I object to being called a Fascist, but Hitler had some good ideas."

Yes, he had.

And no he didn't, by the way. Even the things that on a good day could even remotely be construed as "good ideas" were come to because of (and executed under the pretext of) his extremely racist ideologies. The man was building Germany in his preferred image of a perfect Germany for no other reason than his belief in Eugenics.
Or, you know. Racism.

Isn't it funny when people tell ME I have no idea about Hitler, when YOU obviously don't even know half of what he meant and changed in Europe?

And by the way, even the things he did get banned that you couldn't care less about, he got banned by demonizing the people who made them. Music was banned in Germany if it was composed by a Jew, for example. But no big deal, right?

Not ALL art, ideas, and stuff like that got banned because they came from Jews. Some of them came from German artists. Like abstract paintings, who were outlawed. And frankly, I could care less about paintings. When that would solve a lot of problems, I would burn them myself even.

No more than Communism instantly reminds of Stalin instead of, say, Brezhnev. Nazi Germany wasn't the only Facist state at the time. It wasn't the only Facist state of the Axis Powers. It wasn't even the most Facist state of the Axis Powers, nor was Facism an idea that Hitler was particularly enamored with compared to his buddy Mussolini.

Yes, I know. But a lot of people don't.

The irony of which seems to be lost on you, since you were the one who invoked it under that pretext:
To shutter arguments against you.

This makes no sense, imo. Can't make anything out of it. Please explain :/

No, in an identical context (as has already been explained to you); and you are advocating such suppression.

No difference.

But you're mistaken. I'm not making laws against racists, I would make a law that goes for every single inhabitant.

Look, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt because English probably isn't your first language. However, you really sound as if you've caught some sort of disease that makes you put your own foot so deep within your own mouth, that you'll never be able to drive a manual transmission vehicle again.

You need to explain the foot expression, I haven't heard it before. Nevertheless, I do know that I could probably drive manual transmissions quite well, even without a foot. There are other ways to use a clutch you know

Walk a mile in someone's shoes before you even think you understand their plight, if you're going to marginalize everyone else's past or present issues such that your own are obviously worth stopping the world for.

I didn't say I knew about the plight of coloured people. I just said, that because they used to be suppressed, that doesn't mean any suppression of others is less bad. And don't tell me homosexuals in this example don't have anything to endure, that would be a total joke.

 

[Dennisch]

(Besides the fact that he was quite a brilliant tactician.)

I don't want to get involved into the rest of the discussion, but this part is so terribly wrong I had to answer to this. Hitler was a great speaker, and somewhat of a politician. But in no way he was a great tactician, or army leader.

 

[McLaren]

People are a lot more protective, closed and probably a lot ruder than in Europe. And a lot more narrow minded. I mean, just the topic of guns for example. When I first heard about this, I found it a very good idea. Then I heard a LOT of Americans were against it. Which... had me face-palming once again.

I have a general idea of people in Belgium now, too.

Yes, I know there are some restrictions, which I clearly applaud. But members of the staff think they should be thrown away as well.
No, I want restrictions towards the freedom to insult others as much as people please. Basically, I want people not to be able to be complete assholes just because they feel like it. Very bad idea, right? :/

I don't think anyone here is saying we should throw away the exceptions in place. Again though, there are restrictions on insulting people. The issue is determining what constitutes as fighting words or incitement, rather than just insults. What you want limits people's freedoms way too much. I like to be a complete asshole to my own friends in the form of joking & they know it because they do it, too. Should we be punished if someone not familiar with us were to hear us & reported us as spitting hateful, racist names to each other?

Who gets decide on what level someone is being a complete asshole, or just voicing his view? Someone saying, "I'm all for 'insert group here' doing whatever they want. I just don't like them or want to be around them". Should that person not be allowed to voice his view regardless of how ignorant it is?

 

[Gonales]

I don't want to get involved into the rest of the discussion, but this part is so terribly wrong I had to answer to this. Hitler was a great speaker, and somewhat of a politician. But in no way he was a great tactician, or army leader.

Hmm, do you think his Generals were the tacticians then? From what I heard, he was quite a good tactician himself. May be wrong though.

I have a general idea of people in Belgium now, too.

Oh really? Do share. How many Belgian people do you know, just curious? I am on the phone with someone in America pretty much once a week.

 

[Tornado]

Points at Volkswagen

Yeah, the "people's car" that no regular people ever had.

Besides the fact that he was quite a brilliant tactician.)

For example, when he declared war on the two countries that could (and ultimately did) contribute greatly to stomping his army to the ground and otherwise would have left him alone militarily, that was a brilliant tactic.

But to state that it is more diverse then Belgium, or Germany, isn't right.

Actually, it almost certainly is. Like, obviously so even.

For example, in your opinion I should be able to insult everyone I want, and I don't agree with that.

Good for you.

People are a lot more protective, closed and probably a lot ruder than in Europe. And a lot more narrow minded.

"Probably"

When I first heard about this, I found it a very good idea. Then I heard a LOT of Americans were against it. Which... had me face-palming once again.

Good for you.

Basically, I want people not to be able to be complete assholes just because they feel like it. Very bad idea, right? :/

Yep.

Yes, he had.

Gonna have to have a better example than the highway he built with slave labor, the Volkswagen Beetle (that he also built with slave labor) and the things he did to lose WWII.

Isn't it funny when people tell ME I have no idea about Hitler, when YOU obviously don't even know half of what he meant and changed in Europe?

Yes. He was very important in his role in permanently killing off eugenics as a serious school of thought in Europe. And Fascism.


He also made a really big change to the amount of Jews and Slavs in Europe, but I don't think that's what you meant..

Not ALL art, ideas, and stuff like that got banned because they came from Jews. Some of them came from German artists.

Never said, or even implied, that that was the case.

Like abstract paintings, who were outlawed. And frankly, I could care less about paintings. When that would solve a lot of problems, I would burn them myself even.

Yeah. We've gotten the point by now that if you personally don't care about something, than it isn't worth caring about.

This makes no sense, imo. Can't make anything out of it. Please explain :/

Not going to bother. Wouldn't be any use at this point if you've convinced yourself that Hitler was a pretty cool guy even in part.

But you're mistaken. I'm not making laws against racists, I would make a law that goes for every single inhabitant.

And the law would be tasked with curtailing a specific group. So...

 

[Badasp5.0]

Hmm, do you think his Generals were the tacticians then? From what I heard, he was quite a good tactician himself. May be wrong though.
.

Very wrong, he was a horrid tactician.
His Halt Order at Dunkirk, focusing on the oil in the Caucasus and not Moscow ( Sending the Second Panzer Army south to assist the slow-moving Army Group South), Focusing on Stalingrad, attacking Kursk when the Soviets had built up massive defences, and his Ardennes attack in the west.

There is many more but those are the ones I can come up with quickly.

 

[Tornado]

Plus he purposely removed the people that were good tacticians and surrounded himself with yesmen as the war went on when those actually good tacticians objected to his actions; and started attempting to micromanage every aspect of the war.

 

[McLaren]

Oh really? Do share. How many Belgian people do you know, just curious? I am on the phone with someone in America pretty much once a week.

Oh really? Because I've been reading the posts from one this past week as well.



Here's a hint. You & I are both wrong on our views. You don't know what it's like to live in America just as I don't know what it's like to live in Belgium. Cut your crap.

Have you been to the US? And if so, where exactly.

I've found equal amounts of rudeness all around the world during my travels. And just as equally narrow-minded. But please, do find some evidence to back up your claims.

Her evidence is talking on the phone with someone here. Which is about as much proof as me getting an idea of Australia from talking to Dion. Or an idea of Washington from you.

 

[Azuremen]

Maybe, my opinion is just as extreme as the KKK, but not as narrow minded. And yes, I do know why it is such a diverse country. But to state that it is more diverse then Belgium, or Germany, isn't right. And the U.S. has laws in place, with lots of gaps in it. For example, in your opinion I should be able to insult everyone I want, and I don't agree with that.

I don't agree with much of anything you've said, but I don't think you should be censored.

And yes, extremely polar views with no consideration for others is basically the definition of narrow-mindedness.

As for the diversity comment, it is a FACT that the US is more diverse than Germany or Belgium. Especially when you considering 72% of the US is white/European while 80% of Germany is ethnically German, then you add on other groups with white/European heritage. Belgium is even less diverse than Germany. So not only is the state right, but also fact.

People are a lot more protective, closed and probably a lot ruder than in Europe. And a lot more narrow minded. I mean, just the topic of guns for example. When I first heard about this, I found it a very good idea. Then I heard a LOT of Americans were against it. Which... had me face-palming once again.

Have you been to the US? And if so, where exactly.

I've found equal amounts of rudeness all around the world during my travels. And just as equally narrow-minded. But please, do find some evidence to back up your claims.

Yes, I know there are some restrictions, which I clearly applaud. But members of the staff think they should be thrown away as well.
No, I want restrictions towards the freedom to insult others as much as people please. Basically, I want people not to be able to be complete assholes just because they feel like it. Very bad idea, right? :/

Yes. Why? Because it leads rapidly to just muting the opinions and voices of those that might not agree with the government. Which leads to things like NAZI Germany.

Not ALL art, ideas, and stuff like that got banned because they came from Jews. Some of them came from German artists. Like abstract paintings, who were outlawed. And frankly, I could care less about paintings. When that would solve a lot of problems, I would burn them myself even.

As an artist, I find the destruction of paintings and master copies just appalling. These are the things that document and define the culture of a people. The destruction of culture work is highly offensive to me.

I didn't say I knew about the plight of coloured people. I just said, that because they used to be suppressed, that doesn't mean any suppression of others is less bad. And don't tell me homosexuals in this example don't have anything to endure, that would be a total joke.

Bolded part = lulz.

And no one has said homosexuals haven't be discriminated against. We are just commenting on how you seem to disregard the injustices faced by other groups to further your own views.

Hmm, do you think his Generals were the tacticians then? From what I heard, he was quite a good tactician himself. May be wrong though.

His generals were somewhat decent. The fact he insisted in invading Russia during the winter, making the same mistake Napoleon made less than 2 centuries ago, just speaks volumes about his understanding of strategy.

Oh really? Do share. How many Belgian people do you know, just curious? I am on the phone with someone in America pretty much once a week.

Wow, you know a whole person, and over the phone at that?

 

[Danny]

Wow, you know a whole person, and over the phone at that?

Bit churlish.

👎

 

[jcm]

Okay, up until now I could at least somewhat understand what your opinion on what to do, even if I thought in many places your ideas of how to fix certain problems were quite ridiculous. To look at it simply, it's kind of like saying you have a good idea, but a very bad way of executing it.

Then you said this.

Not ALL art, ideas, and stuff like that got banned because they came from Jews. Some of them came from German artists. Like abstract paintings, who were outlawed. And frankly, I could care less about paintings. When that would solve a lot of problems, I would burn them myself even.

Are you seriously suggesting that banning art will make the plight of any minority group easier to deal with? The reason art is such a large part of so many people's lives is because of how much happier it makes people. It's what makes life worth living for so many people, and you suggest taking that away, and as far as I can see there is absolutely no reason for it! I don't think you quite understand what you're suggesting here, and I seriously hope that you simply put the words in the wrong order or something. And if that was what you meant, can you provide some legitimate examples of how art in any form, such as music, paintings, or literature, is making life miserable for some people to the point where banning all art would be beneficial to society.

I'm not trying to be mean about this, but I find the idea of banning art completely utterly messed up, and I struggle to understand how this logic is even possible. Please explain

Thank you

 

[TyrrellRacing]

You can also add his decision to stop bombing attacks on British airfields that were crippling the RAF, and instead focusing on bombing civilians in an attempt to slightly demoralise a defiant population.

Hitler, rather stupidly, also based his decisions on instinct, rather than careful planning.

 

[Gonales]

Yeah, the "people's car" that no regular people ever had.

It's still a major employer in Germany, one of the biggest maybe. How about we fire them all? That would be such a help, nobody needs VW anyway.

For example, when he declared war on the two countries that could (and ultimately did) contribute greatly to stomping his army to the ground and otherwise would have left him alone militarily, that was a brilliant tactic.

You seem to be mistaken that Russia and America would have not participated anyway? America did, (extremely slow -.-), by own judgement.

Actually, it almost certainly is. Like, objectively.

Oh, yeah I forgot that every single American, is actually NOT American -.- Except the Native americans, ofcourse. Whom you guys did a great job of exterminating and such... (Nevermind the fact, that 50% of the people that come to Belgium get social security, and money from the state to actually make a living. In contrary to America, where social security is highly negligible.)

"Probably"

Yeah, probably. Which means exactly what it needs to mean, in that sentence.

Yep.

You sir, are in favor of people being free to be assholes. Well, if you feel like that, there is only one thing I can say to you: I hope we never meet in real life.

Gonna have to have a better example than the highway he built with slave labor, the Volkswagen Beetle (that he also built with slave labor) and the things he did to lose WWII.

Slave labor? How do you think the German economy boomed so hard to build an Army to oppose every other European country? He created work.

Yes. He was very important in his role in permanently killing off eugenics as a serious school of thought in Europe. And Fascism.
He also made a really big change to the amount of Jews and Slavs in Europe, but I don't think that's what you meant..

Hey, I never said I liked the guy. In fact, the opposite. But, you guys make it sound like I resemble him so much, how about you open your eyes to both sides of the medallion? On his views, AND mine?

Never said, or even implied, that that was the case.

You didn't ? Read this, and tell me what it implies:

And by the way, even the things he did get banned that you couldn't care less about, he got banned by demonizing the people who made them. Music was banned in Germany if it was composed by a Jew, for example. But no big deal, right?[/color][/b][/font]

Yeah. We've gotten the point by now that if you personally don't care about something, than it isn't worth caring about.

Who said that? I do care about art, but if I need to make a choice between art, or making a humans life worth living, I'm sure of the choice I'd make.

Not going to bother. Wouldn't be any use at this point if you've convinced yourself that Hitler was a pretty cool guy.

Who said that? It's you guys that started comparing me to him? I'm just pointing out, that he lived, he did a lot of bad things, and some good things.

And the law would be tasked with curtailing a specific group. So...

Yeah, a specific group which is NOT a minority.

 

[arora]

It took me a while to understand, now I feel dense

It all came down to hating the U.S. and any people seeking freedom.

 

[Azuremen]

It's still a major employer in Germany, one of the biggest maybe. How about we fire them all? That would be such a help, nobody needs VW anyway.

Because the current VW is the product of Hitler

And you jump to extremism once again.

You seem to be mistaken that Russia and America would have not participated anyway? America did, (extremely slow -.-), by own judgement.

The US got involved in the European theater because Hitler continued attacks on US boats bound for England.

Just like how we got involved in the Pacific theater because of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.

Oh, yeah I forgot that every single American, is actually NOT American -.- Except the Native americans, ofcourse. Whom you guys did a great job of exterminating and such... (Nevermind the fact, that 50% of the people that come to Belgium get social security, and money from the state to actually make a living. In contrary to America, where social security is highly negligible.)

We are called the melting pot and we do have some poor history. But then every country pretty much does.

And once again, you talk about US policy with no clue. Also, I don't think it is worth bragging that 50% of your country needs government assistance.

You sir, are in favor of people being free to be assholes. Well, if you feel like that, there is only one thing I can say to you: I hope we never meet in real life.

Why, because you'd lash out at him for disagreeing with you? Or because you'd take everything from a stranger far too personally?

Slave labor? How do you think the German economy boomed so hard to build an Army to oppose every other European country? He created work.

Work building a military and stealing from minorities. I still don't understand how you have such a perverse view of NAZI Germany.

Hey, I never said I liked the guy. In fact, the opposite. But, you guys make it sound like I resemble him so much, how about you open your eyes to both sides of the medallion? On his views, AND mine?

We've never really compared you to Hitler, and certainly not till you brought him up in this thread. And you've said he had good ideas and continue to use examples from his actions to justify your reasoning. Which makes it hard to separate your views from his when you justify the actions of Hitler.

Who said that? I do care about art, but if I need to make a choice between art, or making a humans life worth living, I'm sure of the choice I'd make.

Do you not understand that art has helped several minorities in achieving equality? Do you not understand that is one of the most powerful means to touch emotions?

And do you seriously think offensive art/words make people's lives unlivable? Are you that deluded? My life would be unlivable without art, so to speak.

Who said that? It's you guys that started comparing me to him? I'm just pointing out, that he lived, he did a lot of bad things, and some good things.

Actually, you're the one that started comparing yourself to him.

Yeah, a specific group which is NOT a minority.

What? You want to suppress the rights of the few that still advocate racism and discrimination, which is really just suppressing another minority.

And the suggestion that suppressing a majority is some how morally just while suppressing a minority is not is laughable. More so when I reflect on how many of the most bigoted people I've met are minorities in the US.

 

[Gonales]

Oh really? Because I've been reading the posts from one this past week as well.

The maturity is strong in this one. :/ (Sarcasm)

Here's a hint. You & I are both wrong on our views. You don't know what it's like to live in America just as I don't know what it's like to live in Belgium. Cut your crap.

I agree I could be wrong,but I disagree with a LOT of habits, ways of thinking and lifestyles from the U.S. citizens.

Her evidence is talking on the phone with someone here. Which is about as much proof as me getting an idea of Australia from talking to Dion. Or an idea of Washington from you.

Yes, I know someone I used to date, whom split up with me to go work in the U.S.A. We used to spend hours talking, so I quite generally get how she felt in America. Which says enough for me.

I don't agree with much of anything you've said, but I don't think you should be censored.

Good for you.

And yes, extremely polar views with no consideration for others is basically the definition of narrow-mindedness.

No consideration for others? Where do I have 'no consideration' for others? I've made my statements to make this a better world. The fact that there would be a bit of meaningless legislation for people that would not even affect people that are averagely decent, makes me a tyrant? Really?

As for the diversity comment, it is a FACT that the US is more diverse than Germany or Belgium. Especially when you considering 72% of the US is white/European while 80% of Germany is ethnically German, then you add on other groups with white/European heritage. Belgium is even less diverse than Germany. So not only is the state right, but also fact.

As stated in a reply above, Yes, America is more diverse, because every single American is not American, unless they are actually Native Americans. Beside that point, and considering how many people have immigrated the last 10 years, I think the situation in Europe is worse.

Have you been to the US? And if so, where exactly.

Nope, I haven't.

I've found equal amounts of rudeness all around the world during my travels. And just as equally narrow-minded. But please, do find some evidence to back up your claims.

Hmm, Sandra told me, that people were extremely horrible unless you knew them, in comparison to Belgium. A lot more aggression, and offensive behavior tbh.

Yes. Why? Because it leads rapidly to just muting the opinions and voices of those that might not agree with the government. Which leads to things like NAZI Germany.

This is exaggeration.

As an artist, I find the destruction of paintings and master copies just appalling. These are the things that document and define the culture of a people. The destruction of culture work is highly offensive to me.

Well, I can understand this, a bit. But art > a person's life, for example? Now who is the person with weird ideas?

Bolded part = lulz.

So, you think coloured people are still oppressed?

And no one has said homosexuals haven't be discriminated against. We are just commenting on how you seem to disregard the injustices faced by other groups to further your own views.

I'm NOT! I'm saying, because people have been treated badly in the past, it doesn't mean that others should be treated badly now without consequence.

Wow, you know a whole person, and over the phone at that?

Read the first line I typed.

Okay, up until now I could at least somewhat understand what your opinion on what to do, even if I thought in many places your ideas of how to fix certain problems were quite ridiculous. To look at it simply, it's kind of like saying you have a good idea, but a very bad way of executing it.

Maybe. I know there are some huge flaws in the way I want to change things, but with the amount of dislike I have for today's society, it's not that far-fetched. Plus, there is NO way to change people really, without legislation.

Are you seriously suggesting that banning art will make the plight of any minority group easier to deal with? The reason art is such a large part of so many people's lives is because of how much happier it makes people. It's what makes life worth living for so many people, and you suggest taking that away, and as far as I can see there is absolutely no reason for it! I don't think you quite understand what you're suggesting here, and I seriously hope that you simply put the words in the wrong order or something. And if that was what you meant, can you provide some legitimate examples of how art in any form, such as music, paintings, or literature, is making life miserable for some people to the point where banning all art would be beneficial to society.

No, I'm saying that art, in comparison to the rights, and the worth of a human being is negligible. If I could create world peace by burning art, I would. If I could make people see what homosexuality is really about, by burning art. I would.

I'm not trying to be mean about this, but I find the idea of banning art completely utterly messed up, and I struggle to understand how this logic is even possible. Please explain
Thank you

The mention of art came from me pointing at some things Adolf Hitler changed. And I pointed at art, being one type of example that is not too bad, compared to the other things he did.

 

[Tornado]

It's still a major employer in Germany, one of the biggest maybe. How about we fire them all? That would be such a help, nobody needs VW anyway.

VW as it is now is based on the company that Britain was put in charge of running after the war ended. It's relationship to Volkswagen before and during the war extends to nothing more than the car designs, since even the factories didn't survive the war as they were specifically targeted by bombing raids and the management (including Ferdinand Porsche) was jailed for war crime at Nuremburg.

You seem to be mistaken that Russia and America would have not participated anyway? America did, (extremely slow -.-), by own judgement.

The U.S. declared war on Japan for attacking Pearl Harbor. That doesn't mean, and in fact would not have meant (because popular opinion was still that it was a "European affair), that the U.S. would have declared war on Italy or Germany had Germany not declared war on the U.S. after Pearl Harbor.

And the Soviet Union, while undoubtedly planning at some point to attack Germany, certainly didn't plan on doing it in the Fall of 1941. All Germany accomplished by invading the USSR was waste resources and open up a two front war that it at that point couldn't win.

Oh, yeah I forgot that every single American, is actually NOT American -.- Except the Native americans, ofcourse. Whom you guys did a great job of exterminating and such... (Nevermind the fact, that 50% of the people that come to Belgium get social security, and money from the state to actually make a living. In contrary to America, where social security is highly negligible.)

And this is relevant how?

Yeah, probably. Which means exactly what it needs to mean, in that sentence.

Which means you don't know anything. I talk to someone from Colombia, and several people from Britain, and several people from Canada; and I talk to them every day for several hours a day. And yet I don't pretend to know enough about their cultures to make sweeping statements about them.

You sir, are in favor of people being free to be assholes. Well, if you feel like that, there is only one thing I can say to you: I hope we never meet in real life.

The irony of your statements considering your own conduct once again is lost on you.

Slave labor? How do you think the German economy boomed so hard to build an Army to oppose every other European country? He created work.

Are you really so naive to think that those undesirable people that Germany shipped off to various spots in the country after forcibly removing them from their homes weren't put to work on Hitler's various pet projects? That their stuff which was stolen from them wasn't used to fund those projects? It's not like this stuff isn't common knowledge. Even Volkswagen admitted that their factories were staffed with slave labor during the war, and were sued over it.


For someone who claims to know about WWII, you're missing out on some grade-school-level history about it.

But, you guys make it sound like I resemble him so much, how about you open your eyes to both sides of the medallion? On his views, AND mine?

You're asking us to look at all the good things that Hitler did as backup for your argument. That by itself should tell you something.

You didn't ? Read this, and tell me what it implies:

It implies that music being banned because a Jew wrote it is one example of the types of things that were banned and the reasons that they were banned for. It implies that because that is almost word for word what I said.

Stop chasing shadows. that aren't there.

Who said that? I do care about art, but if I need to make a choice between art, or making a humans life worth living, I'm sure of the choice I'd make.

You said that with your arguments over the course of the past two threads. Including that sentence you just said explaining.

Yeah, a specific group which is NOT a minority.

So what you're saying now is that racists make up a majority?


And by the way, the "specific group" part is the important part of that sentence.

 

[TyrrellRacing]

You seem to be mistaken that Russia and America would have not participated anyway? America did, (extremely slow -.-), by own judgement.

Prior to the invasion, the countries traded with each other. Stalin himself sent a telegram to Hitler congratulating him on his capture of France.

Hitler could have won the war had he captured Britain before launching an attack on the Soviets, which he nearly beat even with scores of divisions in the West.

You sir, are in favor of people being free to be assholes. Well, if you feel like that, there is only one thing I can say to you: I hope we never meet in real life.

Good luck with that.

Slave labor? How do you think the German economy boomed so hard to build an Army to oppose every other European country? He created work.

He created employment by building a huge army from a huge population. The surrounding counties couldn't match the economical mite. Admittedly, Hitler was very successful in turning the economy around, no one has argued that.

Who said that? I do care about art, but if I need to make a choice between art, or making a humans life worth living, I'm sure of the choice I'd make.

Are you saying that a life where you may get slightly offended is a life not worth living ?

Who said that? It's you guys that started comparing me to him? I'm just pointing out, that he lived, he did a lot of bad things, and some good things.

Agreed, of course Hitler introduced some good things, the economic turnaround for a start. The burning and censorship of Art and Literature was most certainly not a positive contribution.

No, I'm saying that art, in comparison to the rights, and the worth of a human being is negligible. If I could create world peace by burning art, I would. If I could make people see what homosexuality is really about, by burning art. I would.

That's pretty hypothetical.

 

[McLaren]

The maturity is strong in this one. :/ (Sarcasm)

Oh, the irony is strong in this one.

I agree I could be wrong,but I disagree with a LOT of habits, ways of thinking and lifestyles from the U.S. citizens.

Of which you know none besides 1 person?

Yes, I know someone I used to date, whom split up with me to go work in the U.S.A. We used to spend hours talking, so I quite generally get how she felt in America. Which says enough for me.

So 1 person is how you came to the conclusion of the US?

How fitting. I think I've again come to the conclusion of how Belgium people are from talking to you.

 

[Gonales]

Because the current VW is the product of Hitler
And you jump to extremism once again.

No, but you guys are, mentioning it as slavery.

The US got involved in the European theater because Hitler continued attacks on US boats bound for England.

Yes, because they were supplying the English. Which is an act of war on itself. Plus, the U.S.A. sent ships on their own responsibility.

Just like how we got involved in the Pacific theater because of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.

Not really the same. But as far as I know, Hitler had nothing to do with PH.

We are called the melting pot and we do have some poor history. But then every country pretty much does.

True, very true.

And once again, you talk about US policy with no clue. Also, I don't think it is worth bragging that 50% of your country needs government assistance.

I think it's worth bragging that we can actually give it to them. Plus, a lot of them come here because they are refugees of wars, or policies in eastern Europe, or just looking to start a better life. Please explain the policy then?

Why, because you'd lash out at him for disagreeing with you? Or because you'd take everything from a stranger far too personally?

Or because I think that wanting people to be free to assholes, is allowing people to be assholes. Which comes very close to supporting people to be assholes.

Work building a military and stealing from minorities. I still don't understand how you have such a perverse view of NAZI Germany.

I don't. But not everything about Hitler is bad. Which is what people make you think.

We've never really compared you to Hitler, and certainly not till you brought him up in this thread. And you've said he had good ideas and continue to use examples from his actions to justify your reasoning. Which makes it hard to separate your views from his when you justify the actions of Hitler.

I don't, I only justify some. I hate most. And I brought him up, as an example of what legislation could, and can't do.

Do you not understand that art has helped several minorities in achieving equality? Do you not understand that is one of the most powerful means to touch emotions?

This is so far from true. Art makes minorities get accepted? Not true. :/ It's politics that do.

And do you seriously think offensive art/words make people's lives unlivable? Are you that deluded? My life would be unlivable without art, so to speak.

Who said such a thing? I now I didn't.

Actually, you're the one that started comparing yourself to him.

I started comparing legislation I would propose, towards a bad example of what legislation could do.

What? You want to suppress the rights of the few that still advocate racism and discrimination, which is really just suppressing another minority.

But, how can you consider everyone living in America, a minority, in America? The laws would go for everyone in that country. America, or Europe, just an example.

And the suggestion that suppressing a majority is some how morally just while suppressing a minority is not is laughable. More so when I reflect on how many of the most bigoted people I've met are minorities in the US.

Well, because suppressing majorities is already done by current politicians. There is not a single perfect politician in this world, let alone a whole representative meeting full of them.

 

[Gonales]

Oh, the irony is strong in this one.

Should watch out, maybe I could get serious. :/

Of which you know none besides 1 person?

Of which I know quite a couple. Homosexual rights, President elections, Guns policies, etc...

So 1 person is how you came to the conclusion of the US?

Yes, one person I trust with my life, who told me about her experiences. How people reacted to her, treated her etc. Which IS, an average of American standards, or isn't it?

How fitting. I think I've again come to the conclusion of how Belgium people are from talking to you.

You talk to me, but you won't know how other Belgian people treat me, or you for that matter. I'm just one person, but the amount of people my ex meet, is not 1 person. See the difference?