Civil Rights Movement encroaches on rights?

The maturity is strong in this one. :/ (Sarcasm)
His statement is just as valid as yours.

I agree I could be wrong,but I disagree with a LOT of habits, ways of thinking and lifestyles from the U.S. citizens.
Yet you clearly don't know much about US Citizens.

Yes, I know someone I used to date, whom split up with me to go work in the U.S.A. We used to spend hours talking, so I quite generally get how she felt in America. Which says enough for me.
So your view of the US is the result of someone you use to date that moved here? The US is one of the largest and most populous nations in the world and you think you understand it based on the opinion of a single person staying here? That would be like me saying I understand all of Europe because I spent some time in Paris.

And just curious, where was this ex of yours living at in the US?

No consideration for others? Where do I have 'no consideration' for others? I've made my statements to make this a better world. The fact that there would be a bit of meaningless legislation for people that would not even affect people that are averagely decent, makes me a tyrant? Really?
No one ever called you a tyrant, so way to jump to conclusions (again) on what we are saying.

The consideration part is the result of you using your personal preferences as the basis for what is moral and just, combined with how you openly support the suppression of people that disagree with this mindset.

Suppressing the voices of any group simply makes the world blind and ignorant, not better.

As stated in a reply above, Yes, America is more diverse, because every single American is not American, unless they are actually Native Americans. Beside that point, and considering how many people have immigrated the last 10 years, I think the situation in Europe is worse.

Dat word choice. And the US is still more ethnically diverse than most all of Europe as of this decade.

Hmm, Sandra told me, that people were extremely horrible unless you knew them, in comparison to Belgium. A lot more aggression, and offensive behavior tbh.
To be honest, this is the definition of ignorance - base your entire view of a massive nation on a single person's experience. Would be comparable to saying all of Italy is full of perverts because my friend got felt up the times she was there.

This is exaggeration.
This is fact.

Well, I can understand this, a bit. But art > a person's life, for example? Now who is the person with weird ideas?
Tell that to the artists that Hitler had murdered. Or to those that have been executed for refusing to back down from their right to express themselves.

I myself have had several encounters with authority figures trying to restrict my right to document the world. As a photographer, I feel I have an obligation to document the world to show it to others. Many photojournalists have put their lives on the line to reveal truths. Many other photographers generate controversial work to provoke the public into thought.

If you think you can define what is important in other people's lives, you really, really, really need to open your eyes.

So, you think coloured people are still oppressed?
Absolutely.

I'm NOT! I'm saying, because people have been treated badly in the past, it doesn't mean that others should be treated badly now without consequence.
There are consequences for all actions involving people, regardless if the government is involved.

Maybe. I know there are some huge flaws in the way I want to change things, but with the amount of dislike I have for today's society, it's not that far-fetched. Plus, there is NO way to change people really, without legislation.
You don't get it. Legislation only changes how people act overtly and doesn't really change the people. Example - prostitution is illegal in much of the US, but it still happens constantly. And because it is illegal, other crimes are integrated into that are far worse, such as sex slaves and domestic violence.

No, I'm saying that art, in comparison to the rights, and the worth of a human being is negligible. If I could create world peace by burning art, I would. If I could make people see what homosexuality is really about, by burning art. I would.
Please read The Giver, 1984, or a Brave New World
.

The mention of art came from me pointing at some things Adolf Hitler changed. And I pointed at art, being one type of example that is not too bad, compared to the other things he did.
That is like saying killing ten people isn't as bad as a thousand...
 
Should watch out, maybe I could get serious. :/
We'll just chalk it up that that went right over your head.

Of which I know quite a couple. Homosexual rights, President elections, Guns policies, etc...
Read what I wrote. Last I checked, those are not people....

Yes, one person I trust with my life, who told me about her experiences. How people reacted to her, treated her etc. Which IS, an average of American standards, or isn't it?
Because there's not a chance in hell she exaggerated anything, or even went to the US with a certain viewpoint in mind? Or is it the fact that she is your friend & therefore, bias towards what she says rather than actually hearing from someone else that lives in America?

Regardless, she is but 1 person. She does not represent America, & seeing as you have never been here, you do not know what you think you know.

You talk to me, but you won't know how other Belgian people treat me, or you for that matter. I'm just one person, but the amount of people my ex meet, is not 1 person. See the difference?
I'm speaking to you & getting an idea of Belgium people from you.
You talk to your ex, & get an idea of Americans from her.

There is no difference. You're giving me a negative view of Belgium people & your ex. is giving you a negative view of Americans. All this despite the fact I've never been to Belgium or spoken to any other people from Belgium just as you have never been to America & spoken to any other Americans.

Fact is, you're wrong about Americans. No further discussion needed.

BTW, I'd still like a reply to this.
I don't think anyone here is saying we should throw away the exceptions in place. Again though, there are restrictions on insulting people. The issue is determining what constitutes as fighting words or incitement, rather than just insults. What you want limits people's freedoms way too much. I like to be a complete asshole to my own friends in the form of joking & they know it because they do it, too. Should we be punished if someone not familiar with us were to hear us & reported us as spitting hateful, racist names to each other?

Who gets decide on what level someone is being a complete asshole, or just voicing his view? Someone saying, "I'm all for 'insert group here' doing whatever they want. I just don't like them or want to be around them". Should that person not be allowed to voice his view regardless of how ignorant it is?
 
I agree I could be wrong,but I disagree with a LOT of habits, ways of thinking and lifestyles from the U.S. citizens.

Damn their freedoms!

Yes, I know someone I used to date, whom split up with me to go work in the U.S.A. We used to spend hours talking, so I quite generally get how she felt in America. Which says enough for me.

Great, you base your opinion of what it's like to be in America on what an ex tells you. Guess I know all about being a woman seeing as that's all my ex talked about.


No consideration for others? Where do I have 'no consideration' for others? I've made my statements to make this a better world. The fact that there would be a bit of meaningless legislation for people that would not even affect people that are averagely decent, makes me a tyrant? Really?

You had no consideration for others when you said that freedom of speech should be restricted, because you think that it will offend someone else. Without asking them whether they find it offensive. Not that it matters anyway because nobody has any right to not be offended.

As stated in a reply above, Yes, America is more diverse, because every single American is not American, unless they are actually Native Americans. Beside that point, and considering how many people have immigrated the last 10 years, I think the situation in Europe is worse.

If you want to look at it like that, go back about two million years and you'll find we're all Africans.


Hmm, Sandra told me, that people were extremely horrible unless you knew them, in comparison to Belgium. A lot more aggression, and offensive behavior tbh.

Again, you cannot rely on other people's experiences of a country to determine what you think of it. The people were offensive? So 🤬 what? If she was anything like you, that could just mean that someone asked her if she had a boyfriend. Any particular reason you rely purely on your ex's experiences for when people ask what your experiences of America are?


So, you think coloured people are still oppressed?

That's not the point. You think homosexuals have had it worse, despite centuries of slavery and oppression.


I'm NOT! I'm saying, because people have been treated badly in the past, it doesn't mean that others should be treated badly now without consequence.

You don't like being offended, offend them back. Nothing's stopping you.

Maybe. I know there are some huge flaws in the way I want to change things, but with the amount of dislike I have for today's society, it's not that far-fetched. Plus, there is NO way to change people really, without legislation.

:lol: Good lord, do you ever think about what you're saying? You are not going to change people with legislation. You are not going to change people through restricting their rights and their freedoms, and by setting consequences for having an opinion that a minority don't like. Do that and people will rise up against the state.

No, I'm saying that art, in comparison to the rights, and the worth of a human being is negligible. If I could create world peace by burning art, I would. If I could make people see what homosexuality is really about, by burning art. I would.

What homosexuality is really about? Are you being 🤬 serious right now? Homosexuality is when two people of the same gender are in either a romantic or sexual relationship. That's it.

The mention of art came from me pointing at some things Adolf Hitler changed. And I pointed at art, being one type of example that is not too bad, compared to the other things he did.

Oh, that's fine then. It was the least bad thing he did, therefore it must be okay. You're saying you can't see a flaw in that logic?


EDIT: Tree'd by like three different people :lol:
 
Prior to the invasion, the countries traded with each other. Stalin himself sent a telegram to Hitler congratulating him on his capture of France.

True. But in the end, alliances would have been held, and Stalin would have interfered, because Russia considered itself one of the greater powers in that time. Which it was...

Hitler could have won the war had he captured Britain before launching an attack on the Soviets, which he nearly beat even with scores of divisions in the West.

Yes he could have, and I'm happy he did not. Thing is, without a good mind, (as in, not a complete retard), you can't conquer half of Europe.

Good luck with that.

Thanks :)

He created employment by building a huge army from a huge population. The surrounding counties couldn't match the economical mite. Admittedly, Hitler was very successful in turning the economy around, no one has argued that.

He created employment. You can't run an Economy if nobody earned anything, Thank you.

Are you saying that a life where you may get slightly offended is a life not worth living ?

Not really. Where did you get this from? Are you smoking something?

Agreed, of course Hitler introduced some good things, the economic turnaround for a start. The burning and censorship of Art and Literature was most certainly not a positive contribution.

I agree, it was bad. BUT it was NOT the reason why everything turned so badly. This means, that legislation was NOT at fault, for what happened to people. The fault lies by the politics in that country at that time. If they had been better at predicting, and playing against his political powers, there would have been less issues.

That's pretty hypothetical.

True.

VW as it is now is based on the company that Britain was put in charge of running after the war ended. It's relationship to Volkswagen before and during the war extends to nothing more than the car designs, since even the factories didn't survive the war as they were specifically targeted by bombing raids and the management (including Ferdinand Porsche) was jailed for war crime at Nuremburg.

Wow, these 2 posts are so different, I could let them contradict each other... Saves me the typing.

He created employment by building a huge army from a huge population. The surrounding counties couldn't match the economical mite. Admittedly, Hitler was very successful in turning the economy around, no one has argued that.



The U.S. declared war on Japan for attacking Pearl Harbor. That doesn't mean, and in fact would not have meant (because popular opinion was still that it was a "European affair), that the U.S. would have declared war on Italy or Germany had Germany not declared war on the U.S. after Pearl Harbor.

And the Soviet Union, while undoubtedly planning at some point to attack Germany, certainly didn't plan on doing it in the Fall of 1941. All Germany accomplished by invading the USSR was waste resources and open up a two front war that it at that point couldn't win.

Yes, but with most of Europe at war, America would have interfered. Before or after 1945, we dont know. But they would have, definitely.

And this is relevant how?

Difference between Europe and America. You guys want me to explain my attitude towards America, there you go.


Which means you don't know anything. I talk to someone from Colombia, and several people from Britain, and several people from Canada; and I talk to them every day for several hours a day. And yet I don't pretend to know enough about their cultures to make sweeping statements about them.

Which means I know enough to base a basic opinion. I do not disrespect the culture, but the average personality in America, when considering strangers.



The irony of your statements considering your own conduct once again is lost on you.

What irony? Do explain. I may seem very extremist, but in real life, you know... You would never see me hurt anyone purposely. Tbh, I'm one of the most caring and emphatic people I actually know.

Are you really so naive to think that those undesirable people that Germany shipped off to various spots in the country after forcibly removing them from their homes weren't put to work on Hitler's various pet projects? That their stuff which was stolen from them wasn't used to fund those projects? It's not like this stuff isn't common knowledge. Even Volkswagen admitted that their factories were staffed with slave labor during the war, and were sued over it.
For someone who claims to know about WWII, you're missing out on some grade-school-level history about it.

Who says, that I say there were no slaves? But not everyone that worked for Hitler was a slave... Most people actually weren't.


You're asking us to look at all the good things that Hitler did as backup for your argument. That by itself should tell you something.

No, I'm merely pointing out that legislation on itself could never lead to such drastic stuff as what happened in those times. There must be MORE than just legislation.

It implies that music being banned because a Jew wrote it is one example of the types of things that were banned and the reasons that they were banned for. It implies that because that is almost word for word what I said.

Stop chasing shadows. that aren't there.

Yes, but seeing you agree with me that there is more music that got banned, than only music made by Jews, you could state that the legislation provided to ban the works by 'not-jews' is bad, but doesn't actively hurt someone. It does have a negative impact on the seller, for example, BUT this person can change. Get another job for example. If that would be needed, to make other people have a lot better lifestyle, so be it.

You said that with your arguments over the course of the past two threads. Including that sentence you just said explaining.

Life isn't made of absolutes ffs. Don't twist my words. If I had to choose between art, and a humans life, I would choose the human their life. Why? Not because I hate art, but because I value life more than something that doesn't live.

So what you're saying now is that racists make up a majority?
And by the way, the "specific group" part is the important part of that sentence.

So, the Americans living in America is a minority? Right... No, they aren't. Legislation would affect all Americans. Although, some people would have to adapt less than others.
 
Last post in this thread I will make: I grew up differently than you guys did. I grew up, learned that respect for others was the most basic, and needed thing in society.

"What homosexuality is really about? Are you being serious right now? Homosexuality is when two people of the same gender are in either a romantic or sexual relationship. That's it."

Read this: http://jeaksua.blogspot.de/2013/01/come-out-every-day-new-years-resolution.html

It's not just being in a relationship, it involves more than that. You would be right, if people would accept homosexuality completely, and didn't assume anything from when they met someone else.

You guys are telling me, that you think that being respectless is fine, because you know... People have the right to be. I will never accept that, so I not gonna bother replying to this thread again, can't keep up with the amount of times people twist my words.

If anyone ever wants to get to know me decently, I'd say just have a chat.
Good night.
 
Wow, these 2 posts are so different, I could let them contradict each other... Saves me the typing.

No. It just saves you the effort from recognizing the reality of the situation, which was that prewar VW (which used slave labor since it was basically government run, developed machines almost exclusively for the Nazi war effort and was largely only founded in the first place as a propaganda tool) and postwar VW (which shared the car designs and to a lesser extent the factories and virtually nothing else) were two completely different entities despite you trying to present them as one.


Yes, but with most of Europe at war, America would have interfered. Before or after 1945, we dont know. But they would have, definitely.

You mean like how America was perfectly content to let WWI play out by itself until the Zimmerman note?


Lend lease and similar programs to supply weapons and the like isn't the same thing as interfering. It certainly isn't an act of war. And public opinion was actively against going to war with anyone before Pearl Harbor, despite President Roosevelt's wishes to supply more direct aid to Britain.



Which means I know enough to base a basic opinion. I do not disrespect the culture, but the average personality in America, when considering strangers.

The "average personality," as told by one person with an extremely small vantage point.


Who says, that I say there were no slaves? But not everyone that worked for Hitler was a slave... Most people actually weren't.

No one did. But the fact that Hitler did use slaves to do these things, and he funded them on top of that usually through things that he stole, kind of prevents them from being "good."

No, I'm merely pointing out that legislation on itself could never lead to such drastic stuff as what happened in those times. There must be MORE than just legislation.

Legislation doesn't just happen. That "MORE" aspect is what causes the legislation.


Yes, but seeing you agree with me that there is more music that got banned, than only music made by Jews, you could state that the legislation provided to ban the works by 'not-jews' is bad, but doesn't actively hurt someone.

It actively hurt anyone who spoke out against the ban. And since we are talking about Nazi Germany, "actively hurt" meant "sent to a concentration camp." Or just killed.

This is the government that burned books in massive public events for no other reason than because Hitler didn't personally like them, and you're saying that that didn't hurt anyone?


Life isn't made of absolutes ffs. Don't twist my words. If I had to choose between art, and a humans life, I would choose the human their life. Why? Not because I hate art, but because I value life more than something that doesn't live.

But that's not the choice. The choice that you are making is between people being mildly inconvenienced (and inflating that to mean that their lives aren't worth living as a result) because they don't like things, and those things being erased from the public eye as a result.


So, the Americans living in America is a minority? Right... No, they aren't. Legislation would affect all Americans. Although, some people would have to adapt less than others.

You know what that makes that legislation, particularly when it is drafted to force such adaptations more in some groups than others? Discriminatory.


And now we've come full circle.
 
Last edited:
No, but you guys are, mentioning it as slavery.
Because slavery is what helped Hitler restore Germany's economy. Probably why we are mentioning it in context of VW, since they did use slave labor. And free labor tends to make profits easier to come by.

Yes, because they were supplying the English. Which is an act of war on itself. Plus, the U.S.A. sent ships on their own responsibility.
Except the part where trade isn't an act of war :rolleyes:

Not really the same. But as far as I know, Hitler had nothing to do with PH.
I was making the point that the US remained out of the war till it was dragged in by Axis powers.

I think it's worth bragging that we can actually give it to them. Plus, a lot of them come here because they are refugees of wars, or policies in eastern Europe, or just looking to start a better life. Please explain the policy then?
Social Security is available to people in the US after they've hit a certain age, generally deemed the retirement age. It is different than our Welfare system, which is meant to help those in need. Not to mention States have their own systems in place for poverty stricken families as well.

Or because I think that wanting people to be free to assholes, is allowing people to be assholes. Which comes very close to supporting people to be assholes.
These are very different things. I support our right to Free Speech in the US, and often use Westboro as an example while condemning them for ignorance. By your logic, I must support anti-gay groups and racists. Which couldn't be further from the truth.

I don't. But not everything about Hitler is bad. Which is what people make you think.
Pretty much everything Hitler did made a mess of Europe, and in some ways, the Mid-East thanks to the creation of Israel.

This is so far from true. Art makes minorities get accepted? Not true. :/ It's politics that do.
Jazz was quite important in African American culture turning the Civil Rights movement. Art provokes thought and can shed light on social issues normally hidden away. If you can't understand this, an idea that hinges so much on personal connections and emotion, or how much it echoes your emotionally driven justification of suppressing social groups, I don't think much can be done for you.

Who said such a thing? I now I didn't.
Actually, you did.
Who said that? I do care about art, but if I need to make a choice between art, or making a humans life worth living, I'm sure of the choice I'd make.
While you didn't say unlivable literally, you made it quite clear that you think art can make people's live unlivable. Which is absurd.

But, how can you consider everyone living in America, a minority, in America? The laws would go for everyone in that country. America, or Europe, just an example.
You can't see how a law targets at racial slurs or anything deemed offensive would very much select small groups that still act this way? A minority can be defined by ideology as well, which is how you end up with religious minorities and so forth.

Well, because suppressing majorities is already done by current politicians. There is not a single perfect politician in this world, let alone a whole representative meeting full of them.
Which is all the more reason giving the government the power to supress opinions is terrifying. A country that is particular found of this is China, and it certainly isn't a tolerant place, especially for minorities.
 
Last post in this thread I will make: I grew up differently than you guys did. I grew up, learned that respect for others was the most basic, and needed thing in society.

"What homosexuality is really about? Are you being serious right now? Homosexuality is when two people of the same gender are in either a romantic or sexual relationship. That's it."

Read this: http://jeaksua.blogspot.de/2013/01/come-out-every-day-new-years-resolution.html

It's not just being in a relationship, it involves more than that. You would be right, if people would accept homosexuality completely, and didn't assume anything from when they met someone else.

You guys are telling me, that you think that being respectless is fine, because you know... People have the right to be. I will never accept that, so I not gonna bother replying to this thread again, can't keep up with the amount of times people twist my words.

If anyone ever wants to get to know me decently, I'd say just have a chat.
Good night.
Let's just bring up a few posts from you before you go so everyone knows how much you learned.
1: wrong thread,
2: what the .... are you even talking about?
Don't give me that ********. Yes, coloured people had to work as slaves I know. Does that mean the rest doesn't matter? Forgetting Adolf, and his campaign, maybe? Or the fact that most homosexual couples nowadays (yeah, like in, today... Not a hundred years ago -.-), don't have the same rights as other married couples, coloured or not?
Isn't it funny when people tell ME I have no idea about Hitler, when YOU obviously don't even know half of what he meant and changed in Europe?
You sir, are in favor of people being free to be assholes. Well, if you feel like that, there is only one thing I can say to you: I hope we never meet in real life.
The maturity is strong in this one. :/ (Sarcasm)

So much respect learned. What was that about not wanting people to be insulting to each other?

Please, you're so full of hypocrisy that it's obvious that your idea of a law that restricts freedom of speech comes from you wanting to be the judge, jury, & executioner b/c you don't even seem to take into account if the other person was even offended/insulted.

BTW, excellent closing post that contradicts itself just beautifully.
I grew up differently than you guys did. I grew up, learned that respect for others was the most basic, and needed thing in society.
 
True. But in the end, alliances would have been held, and Stalin would have interfered, because Russia considered itself one of the greater powers in that time. Which it was...

Russia was hardly going to jump at an alliance with Britain, who were more scared of Russia originally.

Yes he could have, and I'm happy he did not. Thing is, without a good mind, (as in, not a complete retard), you can't conquer half of Europe.

True, Hitler was a genius in some ways, primarily in stirring up so much hate and aggression it allowed him to steamroller through Europe.

He created employment. You can't run an Economy if nobody earned anything, Thank you.

...

Not really. Where did you get this from? Are you smoking something?

Apologise please, I am greatly offended.

But seriously, your statement is redundant. It's like me asking if you would shoot up the local mall if it guaranteed world peace.

I agree, it was bad. BUT it was NOT the reason why everything turned so badly. This means, that legislation was NOT at fault, for what happened to people. The fault lies by the politics in that country at that time. If they had been better at predicting, and playing against his political powers, there would have been less issues.

True. The holes in the Weimar Constitution, namely Article 48 were why Hitler gained power and established a dictatorship. Doesn't make the censorship any less justified though.

Wow, these 2 posts are so different, I could let them contradict each other... Saves me the typing.

Toronado
VW as it is now is based on the company that Britain was put in charge of running after the war ended. It's relationship to Volkswagen before and during the war extends to nothing more than the car designs, since even the factories didn't survive the war as they were specifically targeted by bombing raids and the management (including Ferdinand Porsche) was jailed for war crime at Nuremburg.
TyrrellRacing
He created employment by building a huge army from a huge population. The surrounding counties couldn't match the economical mite. Admittedly, Hitler was very successful in turning the economy around, no one has argued that.

They don't contradict each other at all, save for where I said no one is arguing about it. (This was because I intended to post about half an hour before I submitted as people kept posting.)

I never said that the Volkswagen was a success of Hitler, nor made any reference to it.

Who says, that I say there were no slaves? But not everyone that worked for Hitler was a slave... Most people actually weren't.

The "master race" were treated very well. Jews, Slavs, gypsies etc. weren't at all.

Life isn't made of absolutes ffs. Don't twist my words. If I had to choose between art, and a humans life, I would choose the human their life. Why? Not because I hate art, but because I value life more than something that doesn't live.

Albeit a therefore restricted life.

Gonales, your heart's in the right place, but seriously, heed the words typed in replies and understand why what you propose is preposterous .

Tesla
EDIT: Tree'd by like three different people

I only intended to correct a minor historical inaccuracy. 2 hours later here I am.
 
Tell that to the artists that Hitler had murdered. Or to those that have been executed for refusing to back down from their right to express themselves.

I myself have had several encounters with authority figures trying to restrict my right to document the world. As a photographer, I feel I have an obligation to document the world to show it to others. Many photojournalists have put their lives on the line to reveal truths. Many other photographers generate controversial work to provoke the public into thought.

If you think you can define what is important in other people's lives, you really, really, really need to open your eyes.

Please read The Giver, 1984, or a Brave New World

Well said 👍

Even though I don't read much, I have to say 1984 was a great book (my favourite, but As it happens I don't have much to compare it too anyway :lol: ). I tried getting into Brave New World, but the first few pages weren't particuarly intresting for me, and I basically just gave up for a while, and then never got started again. And I've never heard of The Giver. Would you suggest I read Brave New World and The Giver at some point in the future?
 
Let's just bring up a few posts from you before you go so everyone knows how much you learned.

So much respect learned. What was that about not wanting people to be insulting to each other?

Please, you're so full of hypocrisy that it's obvious that your idea of a law that restricts freedom of speech comes from you wanting to be the judge, jury, & executioner b/c you don't even seem to take into account if the other person was even offended/insulted.

BTW, excellent closing post that contradicts itself just beautifully.

I learned enough not to hate people for something they can not change. If people want to twist my words time and again, and make fun of certain posts, yes I do get annoyed. So many times things I say get twisted and turned, that in the end it gets really, really frustrating. Plus the fact that it's (not sure how many), but let's keep it at five of you, against one?

Me full of hypocrisy? I never said, I wanted to be anything.

I don't take into account that you're offended by giving up rights? Really? That's firstly, extremely selfish,

and secondly... Learn to live with the fact, that not every country is the same as America. We do things differently here. Having so much guns on the streets for example, is frowned upon by 90% of Europe.

Don't make fun of what I believe when you don't know what I actually believe in. Life over here is so different than over in the U.S.A., that my suggestion is taken so harshly, because Americans are so hellbent on keeping their 'freedoms'.

Last but not least, my ending message was no contradiction. If someone is bleeding to death, his blood is both needed, and basic isn't it? Or isn't that where you think the contradiction is?
 
I learned enough not to hate people for something they can not change. If people want to twist my words time and again, and make fun of certain posts, yes I do get annoyed. So many times things I say get twisted and turned, that in the end it gets really, really frustrating. Plus the fact that it's (not sure how many), but let's keep it at five of you, against one?
Nobody twisted anything. As been said countless times, it's how you have continuously presented yourself.

And don't bring up such an irrelevant fact. This is the internet, not a backstreet in Detroit.
Me full of hypocrisy? I never said, I wanted to be anything.
You didn't have to say it out right. It's obvious by the way you want people to be restricted from having free speech from saying things you find offensive.
I don't take into account that you're offended by giving up rights? Really? That's firstly, extremely selfish,

and secondly... Learn to live with the fact, that not every country is the same as America. We do things differently here. Having so much guns on the streets for example, is frowned upon by 90% of Europe.
And yet nowhere did I ever say anything like that.

But, there's that hypocrisy again. You sit here & claim you know so much about America, yet you talk to me as if I have no clue about the rest of the world. Sorry sweetie, been to Europe several times in my life; I'm well aware of how Europe is considering the majority of my family comes from & lives in Europe. I've meet just as many people there that were rude to me just as your ex. claims to you.
Don't make fun of what I believe when you don't know what I actually believe in. Life over here is so different than over in the U.S.A., that my suggestion is taken so harshly, because Americans are so hellbent on keeping their 'freedoms'.
We all know what you believe; more restrictive free speech & "equality" for all people.

Last but not least, my ending message was no contradiction. If someone is bleeding to death, his blood is both needed, and basic isn't it? Or isn't that where you think the contradiction is?
I'm referring to the fact you implied we grew up differently & thus, we were not taught to be respectful towards others like you were. That's easily along the lines of insult & last I checked, an insult is not respectful towards.
 
Don't give me that ********. Yes, coloured people had to work as slaves I know. Does that mean the rest doesn't matter? Forgetting Adolf, and his campaign, maybe? Or the fact that most homosexual couples nowadays (yeah, like in, today... Not a hundred years ago -.-), don't have the same rights as other married couples, coloured or not?

Wow, I haven't seen the word "coloured" referring to black people in at least 30 years. You drive over the border to Detroit and call someone "coloured" and you'd be lucky to escape with your life. I notice you also used the word "retard." Incredibly offensive. I can't believe you have the gall to lecture anyone about proper etiquette, language, rights, what is offensive etc. What a joke.
 
Last post in this thread I will make: I grew up differently than you guys did. I grew up, learned that respect for others was the most basic, and needed thing in society.

Right, we grew up selfish and wanting to put our needs and hardships above all others, oh wait.


Luckily at some point a saw a most excellent movie that changed all that, good thing too.



HK8IG.gif
 
Last post in this thread I will make...

I not gonna bother replying to this thread again


Liar, liar, pants on fire.

Oh, good job on massively derailing this thread.

But then again, we already know that its your opinion, and only your opinion, that matters. Some of us should even be imprisoned for the "crime" of not sharing some of your opinions, according to you.
 
Liar, liar, pants on fire.

Oh, good job on massively derailing this thread.

But then again, we already know that its your opinion, and only your opinion, that matters. Some of us should even be imprisoned for the "crime" of not sharing some of your opinions, according to you.

Yes, I will respond when people are making stupid, ridiculous and offensive accusations like these. It wasn't me that derailed the thread in the first place. Secondly, IF you even THINK of trying to make fun of someone, don't do it failing so hard at it, that it looks like you're the joke :/

If you don't read what I write, don't comment on my posts, thank you.
 
Yes, I will respond when people are making stupid, ridiculous and offensive accusations like these. It wasn't me that derailed the thread in the first place. Secondly, IF you even THINK of trying to make fun of someone, don't do it failing so hard at it, that it looks like you're the joke :/

If you don't read what I write, don't comment on my posts, thank you.

I wasn't making fun of anybody, I was pointing out a fact. I could point to other lies of yours in the homosexuality thread.
 
Derailment to follow:

Gonales
Oh my god. We basically had the same kind of discussion on the Homosexuality thread. Why are people so hellbent against laws that stimulate equality? I don't get it :/ Seriously, let people be equal. I think the people that are so hellbent against legislation are the ones that make society a worse place. :s

Gonales
You will not be discriminated, considering you will not be treated on membership of a race, gender, sexual orientation, ethnicy, etc etc. You will be treated on the fact that people can not handle their rights, which has nothing to do with the groups or categories listed above.
arora
And you compare hearing the word gay on the psn to the plight of the black man in the united states? really? I think you are way out of line, I don't know what is going on where you live but here there is at least a legit fight going on with marriage and taxes.

The civil rights movement was about equality of man under law, every man having the same rights under law, not HURT FEELINGS on a computer game.

Gonales
Yeah, but I mean... Why the hell would coloured people be 'more' oppressed than homosexual ones, coloured or not? Just because there are more? That statement really makes no sense. :s

Gonales
Don't give me that ********. Yes, coloured people had to work as slaves I know. Does that mean the rest doesn't matter? Forgetting Adolf, and his campaign, maybe? Or the fact that most homosexual couples nowadays (yeah, like in, today... Not a hundred years ago -.-), don't have the same rights as other married couples, coloured or not?

And that is the post that brought the thread down, I'll take all the blame though. I never should have compared one grievance with another. Of course Hitler was soon to follow lol.
 
I wasn't making fun of anybody, I was pointing out a fact. I could point to other lies of yours in the homosexuality thread.

Lies? Seriously? Definitely curious to what I 'lied' about.
And that's no fact, you have read something and totally changed it's context. Which happens too often in these forums :/

Derailment to follow:

And that is the post that brought the thread down, I'll take all the blame though. I never should have compared one grievance with another. Of course Hitler was soon to follow lol.

You're right, both 'sides' caused the derailment. (@Arora)
Can't blame me solely for it. (@Bobk)
 
Throughout my public school education, I constantly learned about the Civil Rights Movement and its heroes. We literally sang songs about the courage of MLK, Rosa Parks, and Malcolm X, and we were taught of the right of all humans to be treated equally. For a long time, I never questioned the "goodness" of the movement.

Making segregation in a diner illegal intuitively seems like the right thing, right? Racism is stupid and disgusting to me, and no one deserves to be treated that way. But what I've come to realize is that is just a value that I hold as an individual, and society has no right to tell a private establishment that they must follow a particular value (for example by serving a particular person). Rather, that diner should be given three freedom to accept the consequences of its choice. Perhaps that means losing the business of African-Americans and those that find racism loathsome. If the diner finds these consequences unbearable, it will be forced to change its policy or shut down. If not--if it can continue to make a profit with such a policy--it has proven itself an asset to the community worth the policy. It's up to customers to make that choice, not the government.

(One place the Civil Rights Movement appropriately made this impact is in the realm of government. The government, as it is supported by and speaks for all its citizens, must treat all its citizens equally.)

Your thoughts?

I agree. They shouldn't be telling people how to think and feel. Instead these people should be left to deal with the consequences of their policies. I mean if they're going to tell a business that they cannot deny service based on race, why can they deny service based on other things? A business could deny me service because I'm carrying a firearm, even though I have a permit to carry one - which is completely legal in many US states.

The overall point I think people are trying to make is that it's a private establishment and as such shouldn't be bullied. I think if they own the business, it's their right to deny service.
 
Just heard a brief piece on the radio news that Henry Ford Hospital over in Detroit is no longer allowing employees to smoke at any time, anywhere during a shift, including off premises at lunch hour, and here's the kicker, will no longer hire anyone who uses any kind of tobacco product. How's that for a civil rights conundrum? I'll see if I can find a story and post a link.

Apparently it was announced months ago but takes effect now.

http://www.freep.com/article/201209...Beaumont-Health-System-smokers-job-applicants

"Beginning in January, the two giant health care systems will no longer hire job applicants who use tobacco products. And current employees, volunteers, contractors and vendors will not be allowed to use tobacco products or smell of tobacco products during their shifts

Eric Bacigal, director of employee health, safety and wellness for Henry Ford, said it was contradictory for the health care system to tell its patients not to smoke while its employees smelled of smoke. He acknowledged smokers do have rights but described the new policies as a “responsibility and obligation.”

The two health care systems plan to screen job applicants for nicotine. The new hiring policy does not apply to contract workers.

Henry Ford, based in Detroit, employs about 24,000 workers at 6 hospitals and numerous health care centers. Royal Oak-based Beaumont has more than 14,000 employees and is Oakland County’s largest employer
"
 
In many ways, that's quite funny. The hypocrisy angle of smokers advising others not to smoke, at any rate. I presume existing smoking employees won't be fired, even if they'll not hire any new ones.

I don't recall ever having gone to a doctor's surgery, hospital or dentist where I noticed any member of staff smelling of smoke. I assume some must, but frankly the smell of latex gloves tends to overpower everything else when you're anywhere near a medical professional, so I'd not have noticed smoke anyway.
 
In many ways, that's quite funny. The hypocrisy angle of smokers advising others not to smoke, at any rate. I presume existing smoking employees won't be fired, even if they'll not hire any new ones.

I don't recall ever having gone to a doctor's surgery, hospital or dentist where I noticed any member of staff smelling of smoke. I assume some must, but frankly the smell of latex gloves tends to overpower everything else when you're anywhere near a medical professional, so I'd not have noticed smoke anyway.

Added a little to the story today by saying that they will provide all necessary counselling, drugs, etc. for anyone that wishes to quit smoking, completely free of charge. I don't think they will fire existing employees but I don't know how they can get away with not hiring people who smoke on their own time in their own home, nowhere near work. Seems to me a clear policy that discriminates against smokers for no legal or health reason.
 
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You're right, both 'sides' caused the derailment. (@Arora)
Can't blame me solely for it. (@Bobk)
I think we can since you made the comment.
This is what you believe but there will always be people that think that way.
I agree with prisonermonkeys, there should be some kind of blockade to the absolute freedom of discrimination.


Did you honestly expect no one to respond to that?
 
Lies? Seriously? Definitely curious to what I 'lied' about.
And that's no fact, you have read something and totally changed it's context. Which happens too often in these forums :/



You're right, both 'sides' caused the derailment. (@Arora)
Can't blame me solely for it. (@Bobk)

You made a flat statement, to wit, "Last post in this thread I will make", which was then followed by the post which I presume was the last post you were going to make. Within that post you amplified it with "so I not gonna bother replying to this thread again" along with your reasons for not replying. Note that neither statement was conditional. You then proceeded to post again in this thread, several times.

To sum up:
1. You said you would not do something.
2. You then did exactly what you said you won't do.

That makes #1 a lie.
(This follows a similar pattern shown in the gay rights thread.)

I don't see how anything is being taken out of context. You did not qualify your statements with any conditionals such as "unless" or "as long as" or "except".

But here's your entire post, just to remove any hint of out-of-contextness:
Last post in this thread I will make: I grew up differently than you guys did. I grew up, learned that respect for others was the most basic, and needed thing in society.

"What homosexuality is really about? Are you being serious right now? Homosexuality is when two people of the same gender are in either a romantic or sexual relationship. That's it."

Read this: http://jeaksua.blogspot.de/2013/01/come-out-every-day-new-years-resolution.html

It's not just being in a relationship, it involves more than that. You would be right, if people would accept homosexuality completely, and didn't assume anything from when they met someone else.

You guys are telling me, that you think that being respectless is fine, because you know... People have the right to be. I will never accept that, so I not gonna bother replying to this thread again, can't keep up with the amount of times people twist my words.

If anyone ever wants to get to know me decently, I'd say just have a chat.
Good night.

Happy now?
 
Just heard a brief piece on the radio news that Henry Ford Hospital over in Detroit is no longer allowing employees to smoke at any time, anywhere during a shift, including off premises at lunch hour, and here's the kicker, will no longer hire anyone who uses any kind of tobacco product. How's that for a civil rights conundrum? I'll see if I can find a story and post a link.

Apparently it was announced months ago but takes effect now.

http://www.freep.com/article/201209...Beaumont-Health-System-smokers-job-applicants

"Beginning in January, the two giant health care systems will no longer hire job applicants who use tobacco products. And current employees, volunteers, contractors and vendors will not be allowed to use tobacco products or smell of tobacco products during their shifts

Eric Bacigal, director of employee health, safety and wellness for Henry Ford, said it was contradictory for the health care system to tell its patients not to smoke while its employees smelled of smoke. He acknowledged smokers do have rights but described the new policies as a “responsibility and obligation.”

The two health care systems plan to screen job applicants for nicotine. The new hiring policy does not apply to contract workers.

Henry Ford, based in Detroit, employs about 24,000 workers at 6 hospitals and numerous health care centers. Royal Oak-based Beaumont has more than 14,000 employees and is Oakland County’s largest employer
"

You know what? I don't get a great feeling about my healthcare diagnosis and treatment when a person who smells like smoke is telling me how to improve my condition. It's a private healthcare system. Tough crap, smokers. Go find a new hobby.

There's also the matter of smokers generally being a bit more of a cost to bear to deal with, health-wise, lost productivity due to smokers needing their fix every hour or so, and other associated expenses. It's merely a business matter, and companies can look out for their bottom line in these economic times, you know.

There. I stuck my neck out...you can operate on it, if you don't smoke.

Then again, Henry Ford was in cahoots with Hitler, and he didn't like smoking either. Must be a correlation.

They shouldn't be telling people how to think and feel. Instead these people should be left to deal with the consequences of their policies. I mean if they're going to tell a business that they cannot deny service based on race, why can they deny service based on other things?...
The overall point I think people are trying to make is that it's a private establishment and as such shouldn't be bullied. I think if they own the business, it's their right to deny service.

Could you name the last private entity that was told by The Government to change their business policies regarding race? And when exactly was that? You speak of this as if this actually a presently ongoing matter in when companies were told to serve a meal to a Negro or not refuse service to a Jew, or the Feds would raid them and lock their establishment.

Please, entertain me.
 
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How's that for a civil rights conundrum?
There isn't one. That health group is a privately owned business. Being the property of the owners, they should have the right to hire or fire anybody for any reason they please, and even accept or refuse any patients for any reason. Before you either enter private property to fulfill an employment contract or to conduct business, you must first respect the property rights of the property owner.

Could you name the last private entity that was told by The Government to change their business policies regarding race? And when exactly was that? You speak of this as if this actually a presently ongoing matter in when companies were told to serve a meal to a Negro or not refuse service to a Jew, or the Feds would raid them and lock their establishment.

Please, entertain me.
Pretty sure the biggest one was in 1964, when the government told all private companies employing 15 or more people that they can't discriminate based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin.

That act is a direct violation of the property owners' rights to liberty and property. It's a redundant and despicable piece of legislature that has been so forcefully washed into American brains for generations that hardly anybody has the balls to imagine a society without special benefits for various groups of people. Simply the fact that the act defines groups is discriminatory. It's one of the most hypocritical and misguided pieces of law ever written.
 
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